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View Full Version : This is an odd question....



Peck
03-31-2004, 03:36 AM
I don't know why but I was just wondering, how many titles (if any) would the Pacers have had with the team in the mid to late 90's if Ron Artest was the small forward?

Would we have won any? Would we have won the two that Houston won? Would we have been able to be better than the Bulls?

I have always contended that the winner of the E.C. had a severe disadvantage when they played vs. Houston. They had to have two tough seven game series vs. us. By the time they got to Houston they were worn down, especially N.Y.

Would Ron have put us over the top?

Would you rather have Satan as you S.F. or would you rather have the nutball?

Or is this team situation ideal for Ron & he would struggle in the more structured team oriented game of Brown? For that matter would Ron survive Brown at all?

So the question is, would the 94 team have won the title with Ron at the S.F. spot?

TheSauceMaster
03-31-2004, 03:57 AM
I won't comment right this second since it's real late and I am kinda sleepy :laugh:

But for those who didn't know who was on the team that year here's a list

Reggie Miller
Rik Smits
Derrick Mckey
Dale Davis
Byron Scott
Antonio Davis
Mark Jackson
Sam Mitchell
Vern Fleming
Haywoode Workman
Duane Ferrell
Lasalle Thompson
John Williams
Greg Kite
Mark Strickland

Jose Slaughter
03-31-2004, 04:23 AM
I don't know if we would have won the title but I can tell you with certainity that it would not have been the Bulls.

Artest on Jordan !

Could you imagine

TheSauceMaster
03-31-2004, 04:34 AM
Honestly I dunno if Ron could have handled Jordan , I mean Jordan on his worst day was better than alot of NBA players .

I mean I remember watching the bulls and someone would say Jordan had the Flu or something and you could bet your bottom dollar Jordan was gonna score big that game :laugh:

Oh and I don't think Larry Brown could have controlled Ron , just like IT couldn't controll him. I can bet my life Larry and Rick had a nice long talk with Ron before the season and told him there would be no more crazy ron this year.

Anyways no I don't think we would have won a championship is 94 even with Ron , I do think Ron with Larry's Teams would Have won atleast 1 championship if not more.

Unclebuck
03-31-2004, 08:54 AM
Peck, it is as if you are asking me which of my two sons I love more.

McKey and Artest are two of my favorite Pacers of all time.

Ok I'll answer, I would have to go with my first born, no Artest is the better player, Artest would have made the Pacers better than McKey did, but not by that much. I said this then and I say it now, McKey was the Pacers MVP in 1994 and again in 1995.

Doug
03-31-2004, 09:12 AM
I dunno, but I'd love to see Artest in his defensive prime (and I don't know if he's there yet) vs. Jordan.

Tough to stop Jordan, but Ron would have made him work his butt off for his points.

MagicRat
03-31-2004, 10:05 AM
I'm guessing Ron would've body slammed Jordan and broken his ribs early in a series with the Bulls......


Chemistry on the offensive end may have been the bigger issue on the '94 team. Replacing Derrick with Ron might get you a few more points, but it would take many more shots to get them. Derrick is (was) a better passer also.....

Ragnar
03-31-2004, 10:08 AM
Artest would have made the Pacers better than McKey did, but not by that much. I said this then and I say it now, McKey was the Pacers MVP in 1994 and again in 1995.

Not much better? Are you kidding? Artest would have been light years better than McKey. And as far as MVP of the 94 and 05 seasons well :rolleyes:

Unclebuck
03-31-2004, 10:46 AM
Artest would have made the Pacers better than McKey did, but not by that much. I said this then and I say it now, McKey was the Pacers MVP in 1994 and again in 1995.

Not much better? Are you kidding? Artest would have been light years better than McKey. And as far as MVP of the 94 and 05 seasons well :rolleyes:


I guess my post shows how much I respected and appreciated McKey's game in 1994 and 1995, because you know what I think of Ronnie.

McKey was a better team defender

Peck
03-31-2004, 10:53 AM
We all know that I am not to fond of the nutball. However I downright loathed Satan. Well, loath is a strong word for the 94 & 95 seasons. I had issues would have been the better word. However I loathed him Browns last season here.

Having said all of that I think if Artest were a Pacer then & if he & Brown could have co-existed, I don't think they could have btw, then I think we would be looking at two titles.

I don't know about the second version of M.J. & the bulls. However I fell good about the Knicks & even the Magic.

You guys all want to see him match up with Jordan. I want to see him match up against Anthony Mason. He was the one damn Knick that we just didn't have an answer to & I think Ron could have gone toe to toe with him.

Satan for M.V.P. for any Pacers team? :unimpressed:

I don't know about that but I do know for certain that he was the M.D.P. that last season Brown was here.

Most Damaging Player.

beast23
03-31-2004, 11:40 AM
I know it's very early in the year, but maybe we should have a forum award this year for the poster who displays the most "diplomatic restraint".

I read Bucks comments regarding how McKey and Artest were two of his favorite Pacers of all time.

I then thought, Holy Shiiite. the fallout from the impending post might reach all the way to the far northeast side and destroy my home with me in it.

I believe that McKey was a damn fine defender in his prime. But I believe that Artest is one of the few players that I have had the privilege to see that raised defense to an art-form.

If you looked at my favorite players through the years, other than Reggie, you would see a list containing Buse, Workman, Dale Davis and Artest. It's obvious what these men had in common.... they were relentless and physical players who gave everything they had, whether it was the 1st minute of the game or the last 30 seconds of a blowout.

Unless Artest goes into a relapse that lasts through the remainder of his career, I'm fairly certain that he will retire my favorite Pacer of all time. He is BY FAR the best defender I've ever seen in a Pacer uniform.

We knew Artest was a good defender, but come on. Who could not be amazed by the recent statistics released by the Pacers regarding Ron's defensive prowess? I love the guy, but these stats took even me by surprise.

Would Ron have made a difference if he were on the mid-90's teams? Hell, yes. About a world of a difference. As Peck even admits, at least two titles worth.

Arcadian
03-31-2004, 12:05 PM
I don't know if Ron would have helped those teams over the hump wasn't he like 13 at the time?

No, but seriously I don't think we would have beaten the Bulls with Artest.

And I don't think that Artest would change Houston's game enough to really matter. Who would Artest take away on that team Mario Ellie, Vernon Maxwell or an old Clyde on the neext years team? We would still have the same problem--Hakeem and he would still be able to kick it out for the three and still dominate the paint on both ends.

Our window was our team under Bird and Artest would have gotten us at least one title.

ChicagoJ
03-31-2004, 12:25 PM
If you didn't see this one coming then shame on you. ;)

I still want Chuck Person to be the starting SF on the 94 and 95 teams - assuming Det is still traded for Derrick (who, like Uncle Buck, I always loved) then we'd have enough offense and defense to defeat the Knicks, Magic, and Rockets. We never faced the Bulls any of those years, so I'm not concerned about how we'd match up with those teams.

I still believe our achilles heel in 94 was the PG position. Pooh hadn't been shipped out yet, and Workman played great just often enough to win over a lot of fans but yet he played like a third-stringer just often enough that we had to sign Lester Conner to the playoff roster after Vern got beaten up by Shaq.

Un-do the Chuck and Micheal for Sam and Pooh disaster, and we've got Houston's banners. Brownie himself even made similar comments about how offensively challenged the team he inherited was because we basically got nothing in exchange for Chuck.

This message was brought to you by Chuck Person's biggest fan.

Anthem
03-31-2004, 11:40 PM
That's a fun wish, but here's a better one.

Imagine this team with the '97 Reggie.

Seriously, though, it would have been pretty wild to see Ron Artest and Reggie Miller as our swingmen. Or to have Ron and Dale on the same team. :devil: