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Peck
12-19-2005, 03:31 AM
Artest tries to make amends
He admits making 'big mistake,' calls teammates, Walsh in effort to return

By Mark Montieth and Mike Wells
mark.montieth@indystar.com
One week after his show of defiance, Ron Artest's attitude has shifted toward compliance.

The Indiana Pacers forward expanded on his desire to remain with the team Sunday in a telephone interview, claiming he "made a big mistake" by asking to be traded.
Whether Artest can rebuild a bridge to the franchise remains to be seen, but he has begun the effort. He talked with CEO Donnie Walsh, who traded for him in February 2002, and spoke with Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal. Artest called other players as well but wasn't able to reach them, and planned to call coach Rick Carlisle on Sunday night.
Some of Artest's teammates, most notably O'Neal, have been critical. Artest said he doesn't blame them.
"Under the circumstances, I'd be pretty mad at me, too," he said. "I'm mad at myself anyway. Going about things like I did, it's not easy to recover.
"But I'd love to play for the Pacers' organization right now."
O'Neal, the acknowledged leader among the players, isn't interested.
"We talked as a team and we feel like we need to move on," O'Neal said. "As I've been saying, the business relationship is over."
Artest would not divulge the nature of his conversation with O'Neal but regretted not talking to him earlier.
"I should have gone to him with any issues before (speaking to the media)," Artest said.
Walsh, who spent much of last week listening to trade offers, declined comment about Artest's attempt at reconciliation.
Artest cited frustration with Carlisle's offense and a desire to lose the "baggage" from his previous controversies when he made his trade request through The Star on Dec. 10.
He said Sunday he thought he was "doing what was best for the team" at that time but is now remorseful.
"I know guys like Sarunas (Jasikevicius) said they're a better team without me, but I still have guys like Stephen Jackson, who wants me to come back and play," Artest said. "I don't know who else. But I would love to come back and play, and any problems I have, prove I can put those problems aside."
Artest said he was unsure if there's a realistic chance of staying with the Pacers.
"I think Donnie's going to do the best thing for the team," he said. "I'm just going to do whatever he says. Donnie's the leader and I appreciate the opportunity he's given me. He pretty much knows what's best."


Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051219/SPORTS04/512190410/1088


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Ok, before I was all for taking a wait till we get the best offer approach with Ron. I was even willing to just let him be inactive all season long & let him have season long suspension part 2.

But I am very much afraid that we will let this @ss back on the team. Yes, I know J.O. has issued the him or me ultimatum but that worked real well for his pal Zeke didn't it.

I am just petrified that they will get nothing to thier liking & once Feb rolls around and the trading deadline passes & if the team is not clicking on all cylinders there will be a cry go up from the Artesions out there & I have a sad sad feeling that Bird or maybe even Walsh will answer that call.

All that I can hope for right now is that the players show a unified front against Ron. However as we've seen with Jax, that is not going to be the case.

With Ron mentioning Saras & Jax as haveing opposing viewpoints on him I now truely wonder if there is not going to be some kind of behind the scense struggle for the franchise.

I am now emploring Donnie, take whatever you can get. Get this guy out of here, don't let this simmer one more week. Hell don't let it simmer another day if you can help it.

Take Al, take Peja, take Darvin Ham if you have to just end this speculation now.

Yes, I know many will say that Donnie has made up his mind. But the struggle in the locker room is not what we need.

In fact I am now making a 180 on Jackson. This guy has to go to. If he is going to be advocating this idiot then let's ship him off to where ever we can.

If it means a losing season I am willing to do it. I no longer care.

We can NOT under any circumstance allow Ron Artest to ever wear a Pacers uniform again.

Bball
12-19-2005, 03:42 AM
I'm really starting to think Artest just doesn't make all the connections that a normal person does. He can't see past 1 + 2 to see that it = 3. I'm not talking in an 'anger management' way... I mean in a 'coping with life' way.

I'm not convinced that some of the internal stuff NOT necessarily of Artest's making (directly anyway), along with some booing fans, caused him to go 'Artest'.... and this was all a huge bluff (read: tantrum and/or attention grab) that has (so far) gotten called by the team.

That said, I'm not sure it hurts with JO saying he doesn't want him back and with Artest pleading forgiveness. Heck, let JO be the bad guy. Let some GM somewhere start wondering if we're letting the wrong guy go.

With Artest allegedly coming to his senses maybe some GM will think he has some (sense)?

-Bball

Bball
12-19-2005, 03:49 AM
What I find telling... or maybe it is just confusing... is that it's Sarunas (who'd you would think would benefit from having Artest here) already willing to cut ties with Artest and yet Sjax (who you'd think stands to lose touches and points with Artest's return) standing up for Artest.

I realize both these guys could be saying what they think is the 'proper' thing to say (one taking the party line and the other not burning any bridges) and neither means what he's saying.

Heck, JO could be saying what Walsh wants him to say just to make it look like we had to make a choice between the two and Artest has too much baggage and we have too much invested in JO.

-Bball

donny
12-19-2005, 03:54 AM
I realize both these guys could be saying what they think is the 'proper' thing to say (one taking the party line and the other not burning any bridges) and neither means what he's saying. -Bball I realize you could be saying this bull**** just because you blindly like Artest. Only a blind man couldn't see that this team is way better without him.

skyfire
12-19-2005, 04:02 AM
Ron is likely the most easily distracted player in the NBA. Going to the media instead of speaking to Rick or JO or DW or LB or anyone would have avoided this whole episode. His actions were simply idiotic. But could be our idiot?

Ron's attempt to re-connect with his team and more importantly coach, should have been completed before he went to the media AGAIN.

I was so convinced Artest would reform this season. He showed all the right signs during the start of the season. But the series of events that unfolded, leading up to getting beat down by the Mavs and then Ron sitting out against the Wiz when Jax lit up. Ron somehow gets it into his head that the team is better off without him. The rest is history.

UB has repeatedly said he never listened to anything Ron had to say in the media, cause it was usually non-sensical. This time, the only thing that made any sense was 'the team is better of without me'. Everything else Ron said in his initial interview with the Star, made no sense at all. The fact that he is so easily distracted to get such a stupid idea in his head, is all part of Ron Artest. Why did we listen to it this time. If Rick and JO had immidiately spoken to Ron after the statement came out, where would we be now? The Pacers without Ron are a good team, but Ron makes us unique. Uniquely doomed? Possibly but I'm a sucker for Ron.

Jose Slaughter
12-19-2005, 04:14 AM
Ron will be gone. Walsh has had enough there is no way he does a 180 on this.

Jackson should be gone, the sooner the better.

The days of putting up with this crap are over.

NorCal_Pacerfan
12-19-2005, 04:43 AM
Ron's really grasping at straws now. I can't imagine DW doing a U-turn on this. But nothing surprises me anymore.

cracktower
12-19-2005, 05:12 AM
Guys, forgive the poor ba$tard.

Pingu
12-19-2005, 05:15 AM
Too late. Go away Ron.

How many time did the Pacers forgave him?
Too many times.
What has he done to thank the franchise?
Nothing.

I once was an Artest fan, but it's over now.
He won't fool us another time.

I don't care whether he's mentally ill or not (and I don't think he is).
NBA basketball is about winning games. The Pacers are a franchise, not a family.
Not that they shouldn't care about the players' health, but the franchise is obviously more important than any player.

Look, Bender can't play because of his knees while Ron doesn't want to play because he's not happy with JO, Carlisle, the fans, etc. and yet we should feel sorry for him?

I don't want him on the team anymore, and I think that the vast majority of the Pacers' players feel the same way.

There's no redemption for Mr. Artest.

I think that we are all tired of the drama surrounding the Pacers right now.
It's time to trade him and to put an end to the story.

Please Donnie, do it now.
I can't wait.

FireTheCoach
12-19-2005, 05:30 AM
I've been a huge fan of his since his days @ St. Johns... but he's freakin clown and I don't EVER want to see him in a Pacer jersey again.

I've lost even more respect for him now after reading about how he really DOESN'T want to be traded.... this guy wallows in drama and turmoil.

Sure... his stats will be missed by all Pacer fans, but everything else that comes along with Ron Artest just outweighs his natural abilities on the court. It could very well be a painful divorce, but we will be better off in the long run.

Kaufman
12-19-2005, 05:36 AM
By calling out differences between Saras and Jackson, Ron-Ron is trying to polarize the team. He knows those two don't like each other so he is trying to magnify and intensify the differences between them. Its like a child seeing his parents arguing. The child knows how to exacerbate the differences between the parents and manipulate the situation to their advantage. My 2 cents.

Kaufman
12-19-2005, 05:41 AM
I am of the opine that Ron sees he hasn't been traded yet. I don't think the market is as friendly as we thought. So he didn't apologize immediately when he realized that he was being a knucklehead, he waited a week bc he sees that he's not been successfully traded to the Knicks/Cavs. Neither Isiah NOR Mike Brown liked Ron-Ron as much as Ron-Ron thought they did. At least not in so much that they'd part with young talent that DW wanted.

Personally, I like that DW hasn't pulled a trade off and gone the shotgun approach. That's dangerous and becomes emotional decisionmaking. In the same respect, I think that the trade market isn't living up to the team's expectations. I think we've still got some time before Artest is moved, personally.

indygeezer
12-19-2005, 06:55 AM
By calling out differences between Saras and Jackson, Ron-Ron is trying to polarize the team. He knows those two don't like each other so he is trying to magnify and intensify the differences between them. Its like a child seeing his parents arguing. The child knows how to exacerbate the differences between the parents and manipulate the situation to their advantage. My 2 cents.


I have had the same thoughts. SO much of Ron's actions are childlike. Stepping up to the forbidden line and sticking his toe over just to see what happens. Then, when punished he sticks his toe over the line elsewhere to see what he can get away with there. Probing, always probing to determine the limits.

Unclebuck
12-19-2005, 07:38 AM
I really feel bad for Ron. It is very tragic. He did it to himself and that is what makes it so tragic.

Over the years many of you have asked me what would convince me that Ron needs to go. I often jokingly said nothing, as I love defending Ron. But the thing I always said was if Ron's teammates truly want him gone, then I would support trading Ron. Well we've clearly reached that point. So he needs to go.

However if his teammates want him back, then I certainly would welcome him back with open arms.

Harddrive7
12-19-2005, 07:43 AM
By calling out differences between Saras and Jackson, Ron-Ron is trying to polarize the team. He knows those two don't like each other so he is trying to magnify and intensify the differences between them. Its like a child seeing his parents arguing. The child knows how to exacerbate the differences between the parents and manipulate the situation to their advantage. My 2 cents.


I'm really not trying to be funny here, but I really don't think that Ron is that smart. I don't think that he could intensionally manipulate anyone with a goal in mind.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 07:43 AM
Arrrgh, get rid of both, Ron and Steve. They say a team can put up with one headcase, well let's let Tinsley be that. I'm not even convinced he's a problem, but some are.... so that's even better. Our headcase will be half a headcase..

Get this guy outta town

fwpacerfan
12-19-2005, 07:44 AM
I think you are seeing a classic case of not thinking before speaking. I don't Ron is trying to polarize the team - you are giving him too much credit. He doesn't think things that far through. I think he just wants attention and he did not think this would snowball out of control like it did. The guy needs to find a new home - before Christmas.

Frank Slade
12-19-2005, 07:45 AM
I really feel bad for Ron. It is very tragic. He did it to himself and that is what makes it so tragic.

Over the years many of you have asked me what would convince me that Ron needs to go. I often jokingly said nothing, as I love defending Ron. But the thing I always said was if Ron's teammates truly want him gone, then I would support trading Ron. Well we've clearly reached that point. So he needs to go.

However if his teammates want him back, then I certainly would welcome him back with open arms.

I probably share the sentiments of UB on this.

JO last night said having a guy like Ron in the lockerroom really wears on the team. If he really is that much of a distraction to the team and they do not want him back then neither do I.


Now if by some very remote chance the team and front office change their mind and want Artest to return back then that is a different story.

I just don't see that happening ..... at this time.

Stryder
12-19-2005, 07:47 AM
If you let Ron rejoin the team, then you run the risk of him doing this yet again. In Artest's mind, he'll be able to get away with anything, and still be able to play ball.

Hell, look at the past two seasons.

Last season, e was suspended for 89% of the regular season and the team took him back with open arms.

This season, he openly went to the media, and threw his team and coach under the bus by publicly requesting a trade, without first going to management or consulting the team.

What could be next in Artest's repertoire if he was allowed to join the team? There might be some calm moments at the beginning, but believe me, something ELSE will happen with Artest, if he is allowed back on the team.

bread
12-19-2005, 07:57 AM
There is no way that DW is going to go back on his word after coming out on more than one occasion to say he's not coming back. He would look like a fool.

I agree that Ron's statements about Saras and Jax are also further proof that he (Ron) has to go. It's things like that that have divided the locker room to the boiling point already. To bring Ron back now would divide the team even more although the division would appear to end at Jax's locker, which is why he has to go also. If the team loses 2-3 games in a row I can see Jax going off on a "we would have won these games if my man Ron was here!"

TRADE RON NOW!! And see what you can get for Jax also!

sixthman
12-19-2005, 08:13 AM
I'm really starting to think Artest just doesn't make all the connections that a normal person does.

Even I, a big Artest booster, figured that one out a long time ago. :) But I wrongly thought that playing ball in Indy was as important to him as his ego.

Bball
12-19-2005, 08:42 AM
I realize you could be saying this bull**** just because you blindly like Artest. Only a blind man couldn't see that this team is way better without him.

If that is what you got from what I said, then I certainly did not say my piece well at all. Especially in the piece you quoted. It was less about Artest and more about the remaining players and their thoughts and motives.

I meant I thought it was odd Saras seemed to turn on him so quickly so things must be really bad from his POV (most thought Artest and Saras worked well together and liked each other)...

And SJax sticking up for him is odd in that the perception is that Sjax wants more touches and you'd think with Artest gone he'd get more touches (so therefore you'd think Sjax would want him gone even if things weren't that bad)...

But then I opined maybe we couldn't trust either player to be honest publically for various reasons.

Sjax may be sticking up for Ron in print so as to not burn any bridges, maybe behind the scenes he is in complete agreement- trade Ron.

In any case (from initial glance), it seems telling that Saras and Sjax, at least publically, are on different sides of the aisle here. They haven't always been on the same page on the court either.

I was just wondering aloud what we should try and gleen from all that, if anything at all.

As far your comment about blindly liking Ron.... :tsk:

-Bball

Will Galen
12-19-2005, 08:54 AM
I'm with the players and they don't want him back. If they change their minds so will I.

heywoode
12-19-2005, 09:05 AM
Oh.....and he gone, yo.

Donnie has even less interest in bringing him back into the mix than Jermaine does right now, so sleep easy Peck.

I sure hope you are right with this one btown....

oh, and what does format! mean?....I know I'm slow, bear with me!

DeS
12-19-2005, 09:14 AM
I meant I thought it was odd Saras seemed to turn on him so quickly so things must be really bad from his POV (most thought Artest and Saras worked well together and liked each other)...

And SJax sticking up for him is odd in that the perception is that Sjax wants more touches and you'd think with Artest gone he'd get more touches (so therefore you'd think Sjax would want him gone even if things weren't that bad)...

But then I opined maybe we couldn't trust either player to be honest publically for various reasons.
You can trust Saras. When he says, he means it. He said that the team is immature at the begining and we had to face it later. Now that he says that the team is better without Artest, he means that it is better for the team. Also Saras supports JO and the team leaders must support each other. Artest talking about Saras/SJax is making yet another mistake (isn't a surprise?). What about SJax - he just isn't the smart guy in the team.

heywoode
12-19-2005, 09:22 AM
It's an article posting pet peeve that more people than just I have.

If you take the time to post it, take the time to format it so it looks pretty (like it would on the original website) and it's easier to read.

ah, I see...

So what is wrong with the post that started this thread? Is it just missing extra lines for paragraphs, or what? I'm not at all being a smart-***. I honestly want to know so I can do it right if I ever post from an article...

Hicks
12-19-2005, 09:29 AM
Get rid of him. NOW. This guy is a bipolar child, and even now that he's "so sorry", letting him back would spell DISASTER for our chemistry; as the team is not united against him, yet most are. Letting him back in there will destroy it all. I pray we have "Breaking news from ESPN" by late today.

Frank Slade
12-19-2005, 09:42 AM
Ron Artest may be a player without a team..

Think teams were hesitant to trade for Artest before how about a guy who now is pleading to stay wit the club that he just threw under the bus.
Donnie indicated he will leave Artest on the inactive list if he does not get a fair trade..

What happens if that means 2-3 weeks from now Artest is still Inactive , no trade has went through the team does ok but hovers still around .500.

Do you think that after a few weeks after alot of this quiets down, and it will no matter how strong feelings are now.

It won't go away completely but certainly diminish. Does the team in general soften it's stance a little ? Will it even matter? Even Donnie himself admitted he knows he won't get equal value for Artest. Can something this dividing ever really come to any other resolution then a trade ?

Already you are seeing some teams start to look elsewhere . Denver is looking to try and aquire Harrington Out Right, or Peja for that matter.
If the Pacers feel they have to move Artest they need to do it like yesterday...


Artest could come out now and say I won't play for any other team if traded or something like that? It could happen....I think right now in the short-term this is a lose lose situation for everyone involved which is the most unfortunate part of all.

A Loss for the Team
Loss for Artest
most importantly a loss for Fans..


Until this is resolved one way or another the team cannot move forward....

Something to think about.
Also how strongly does Larry want to get rid of Artest , does that factor into it?

Late last week I was 110% sure Artest was gone.
Right now I am about 95% sure

Stay tuned for this Soap Opera is not over yet....

BillS
12-19-2005, 09:55 AM
I'm really starting to think Artest just doesn't make all the connections that a normal person does. He can't see past 1 + 2 to see that it = 3. I'm not talking in an 'anger management' way... I mean in a 'coping with life' way.

There is a classic SF story where the intelligent life form is telling the human about other intelligences around, and it uses the general phrase:

1 1 2 yes 2 2 4 no

Sometimes, I think this describes Ronnie.

dryles
12-19-2005, 10:35 AM
I'm really not trying to be funny here, but I really don't think that Ron is that smart. I don't think that he could intensionally manipulate anyone with a goal in mind.
Bingo! I think someone else has gone over this before, but Ron is 6'7", 260 lbs, and as emotionally advanced as your average 4th grader.....

Harmonica
12-19-2005, 10:48 AM
However if his teammates want him back, then I certainly would welcome him back with open arms.

I'm with the players and they don't want him back. If they change their minds so will I.
I like you both, so please pardon me when I say: You are both outta your frickin' minds!

317Kim
12-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Add Cro to that list because he sounded disgusted when they (WTHR) asked him for comments about Ron.

Jermaniac
12-19-2005, 11:44 AM
If they let him back I will lose all respect for Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird.

bread
12-19-2005, 11:52 AM
If they let him back I will lose all respect for Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird.

Which is exactly why he won't be back. There is no way that DW can turn back now after his public comments that left no room for interpretation. He would lose the respect of everyone in the league, not to mention the fans that pay his salary. Ron is gone. It's just a matter of when and for how many bags of chips.

Pacesetter
12-19-2005, 12:05 PM
Arrrgh, get rid of both, Ron and Steve. They say a team can put up with one headcase, well let's let Tinsley be that. I'm not even convinced he's a problem, but some are.... so that's even better. Our headcase will be half a headcase..

Get this guy outta town

I agree with ya. It's time for Jackson to hit the road too!

heywoode
12-19-2005, 12:08 PM
I like you both, so please pardon me when I say: You are both outta your frickin' minds!

I like all three of you, but I gotta go with Harm on this one....

travmil
12-19-2005, 12:12 PM
Here is my response from the other thread. It sums up my feelings nicely, and I mean every word of it.


I've been a big Pacers fan since Reggie's arrival and I'm serious about this. If Ron is allowed to come back to this team, I will no longer support the Pacers in any way shape or form until those that made the decision are no longer affiliated with the team.

donny
12-19-2005, 01:51 PM
As far your comment about blindly liking Ron.... :tsk:

-Bball well sorry if i misunderstood you. my bad.