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View Full Version : "Things are much better now in Pacerland."



Hicks
12-18-2005, 12:23 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/SPORTS04/512180459/1088



Sarunas Jasikevicius noted that the Pacers have been more cohesive since Artest left the lineup -- first with a wrist injury and then with his trade demand -- regardless of whether it's because of Artest's absence or because the team has stepped up their effort in the face of adversity.
"This team is as tight as it's been all year," Jasikevicius said. "We're playing like one group, sharing the ball well and helping each other defensively and the results are here.
"We've been put in a difficult situation, but it looks like the Pacers are a better team when they're dealing with adversity. Things are much better now in Pacerland."

This doesn't tell most of us anything we didn't already know, but it's still worth pointing out.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/celebration.gif

Will Galen
12-18-2005, 12:29 PM
Things are always better when you are winning. It helps that Tinsley wasn't sullen and Jax didn't play the second half.

Jermaniac
12-18-2005, 12:31 PM
"We can never play together,'' he said after Friday's game against Utah. "If he came back somehow, it would be him or me.''

Good job on JO's part saying that, I would say the same thing if I was on the team.

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 12:34 PM
Just wait till we finish ou trades and get more people who want to be here Saras. :eyebrow: Things will be great in Pacerland.

pizza guy
12-18-2005, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I think having Jackson out helped that feeling as well. Tinsely, even though I'm sort of a hater, is outstanding when he's focused on playing team ball.

It's nice to see that they guys are playing nice with each other.

317Kim
12-18-2005, 01:25 PM
:cloud9: Pacerland :cloud9:

Will Galen
12-18-2005, 01:58 PM
"We can never play together,'' he said after Friday's game against Utah. "If he came back somehow, it would be him or me.''

Good job on JO's part saying that, I would say the same thing if I was on the team.

I want JO to shut up too! That was a immature thing to say! You never, ever, want to cut your bridges because you don't know what the future holds! He might have to play with Ron sometime in the future. (both all stars for instant)

He's doing the same thing Ron did, talking when he shouldn't be. You don't make managements difficult job easier by making proclamations.

aceace
12-18-2005, 02:00 PM
That quote from Saras was more or less him speaking for the team. Cro has said the same, JO has said it. We have won 4 out of 5 and against NY on the road we looked like a team. NY played a pretty good game (one of their best of the year) yet we still beat them. I think RA is just such a distraction that if we can get a decent player in return we can make a run in the playoffs. Granger is improving, Saras looks like he's getting the feel for the NBA level of play. Tinsley looked good against NY. If Jax runs his mouth one more time about RA calling and wanting to return then maybe he should be the next to go.

ABADays
12-18-2005, 02:00 PM
Ron an all-star? I doubt you are ever going to see that happening again.

Kstat
12-18-2005, 02:03 PM
I want JO to shut up too! That was a immature thing to say! You never, ever, want to cut your bridges because you don't know what the future holds! He might have to play with Ron sometime in the future. (both all stars for instant)

%99 of the time I would agree with you.

However, I disagree because of special circumstances:

1. Ron won't be an all-star anytime soon. No coach is going to vote him in the all-star game. Rodman never got the vote either after he went nuts in 1993, despite much better behavior and outstanding seasons.

2. Jermaine is cutting ties with Ron to dispell all doubt. I think he had to do this in light of Ron's request to stay. He doesn't want Donnie to 2nd-guess himself.

aceace
12-18-2005, 02:05 PM
I want JO to shut up too! That was a immature thing to say! You never, ever, want to cut your bridges because you don't know what the future holds! He might have to play with Ron sometime in the future. (both all stars for instant)

He's doing the same thing Ron did, talking when he shouldn't be. You don't make managements difficult job easier by making proclamations.Well, OK I understand your thoughts but I disagree a little. Once RA is gone I don't think you will hear anything from him. JO is speaking out of frustration and how RA has pretty much screwed up the last 2 years. If RA wants to start something down the road let him get suspended. He's already cost us a season and several guys a bunch of money.

Pacersfan46
12-18-2005, 02:08 PM
Just wait till we finish ou trades and get more people who want to be here Saras. :eyebrow: Things will be great in Pacerland.

Aren't you the same guy last week saying we weren't contenders without Artest?

Confusing, or I'm confused .. one of the two.

3Ball
12-18-2005, 03:15 PM
We aren't a contender without Artest, but if we get something good in return, then we might be. The team as it stands now, if the chemistry stays good, is top 10, maybe top 5 in the league. But there is no way we beat Detroit in the playoffs. There are just too many holes.

Basically, Ronnie is a flaming Molotov cocktail. If everything goes right, he's a scary weapon. But he's more likely to go off in your face. I don't really blaim Donnie and rest, because you play for a championship, and we weren't (and aren't) going to win one without him. As it turned out, we got burned. So now it's time to reload.

Will Galen
12-18-2005, 03:16 PM
%99 of the time I would agree with you.

However, I disagree because of special circumstances:

1. Ron won't be an all-star anytime soon. No coach is going to vote him in the all-star game. Rodman never got the vote either after he went nuts in 1993, despite much better behavior and outstanding seasons.

2. Jermaine is cutting ties with Ron to dispell all doubt. I think he had to do this in light of Ron's request to stay. He doesn't want Donnie to 2nd-guess himself.

I understand, but popping off to the media is never good. And it's not Jemaine's place to decide who plays on the Pacers. He's coming across like the little Kid that owns the basketball and will take it and go home if he doesn't get his way.

Outlaw
12-18-2005, 03:37 PM
Saras has said things are better NOW. Austin SAID IT IS a sigh of relief. JO said he doesn't want him back. I am glad to see the players speaking up.

It kind of gives us some reality to what has already known but was being covered up.

IT is time to move on and get some one who wants to be here.

Peck
12-18-2005, 03:47 PM
I understand, but popping off to the media is never good. And it's not Jemaine's place to decide who plays on the Pacers. He's coming across like the little Kid that owns the basketball and will take it and go home if he doesn't get his way.


That's one way of looking at it.

The other way is that he is being the leader of the players left on the team & they, as a group, want no part of him.

Maybe he shouldn't be talking at all, but then again some in the press could easily misconstrue a "no comment" by J.O. as him hedging & saying they could work it all out.

This way there is no doubt.

However, I have a feeling that both Walsh & Bird will agree with your stance 100%.

ThA HoyA
12-18-2005, 04:26 PM
I just think JO is letting out his frustration because he admited that maybe when RA first got here he didnt embrace him like any other teammate and then the past few years hes been trying to get him to become a FULL teammate like hanging out with them and stuff so he feels played that Ron would do this **** just like us. If we got a mic in our face and were asked questions about it we would definetly say we dont want him back and we dont run the franchise.

PacerMan
12-18-2005, 04:39 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/SPORTS04/512180459/1088



helping each other defensively and the results are here.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/celebration.gif


Oh theres news there. THe most overrated single player 'trait' in the NBA right now is ROn Artests defense.
YES, he IS the single best lockdown defender. But he OFTEN neglected TEAM defense in the name of shutting his man down. Neglected HELPING his TEAMMATES to stick like glue to HIS man, so HIS MAN"S NUMBERS were reduced. Regardless of whether that meant easy baskets for OTHER players he could have helped with.
It's blasphemy around here to suggest that I know, but it's been said by Pacers brass(was said in front of a family member of mine), and BEFORE any of this happened.
Believe it or not!

Pistoner
12-18-2005, 04:56 PM
Oh theres news there. THe most overrated single player 'trait' in the NBA right now is ROn Artests defense.
YES, he IS the single best lockdown defender. But he OFTEN neglected TEAM defense in the name of shutting his man down. Neglected HELPING his TEAMMATES to stick like glue to HIS man, so HIS MAN"S NUMBERS were reduced. Regardless of whether that meant easy baskets for OTHER players he could have helped with.
It's blasphemy around here to suggest that I know, but it's been said by Pacers brass(was said in front of a family member of mine), and BEFORE any of this happened.
Believe it or not!

Bruce Bowen is the single best lockdown defender. Artest a close second.

heywoode
12-18-2005, 05:11 PM
Bruce Bowen is the single best lockdown defender. Artest a close second.

How many DPOY's had Bowen won?

I don't like Ron, but he is better than Bowen.

Mourning
12-18-2005, 06:06 PM
How many DPOY's had Bowen won?

I don't like Ron, but he is better than Bowen.

Most definitely.

denyfizle
12-18-2005, 08:05 PM
Bowen would be a great fit to our system. A GREAT FIT. But the odds of getting him for Ron isn't.

Shade
12-18-2005, 08:09 PM
Hmm...did Runi make this comment AFTER Jack was benched last night?

heywoode
12-18-2005, 08:12 PM
Bowen would be a great fit to our system. A GREAT FIT. But the odds of getting him for Ron isn't.

I don't think anyone was talking about Bowen coming here, I was just responding to a comment about him...

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 08:22 PM
Aren't you the same guy last week saying we weren't contenders without Artest?

Confusing, or I'm confused .. one of the two.

Well, if we can get back a great enough player we'd be a contender. But I was mainly talking about chemisty.

travmil
12-18-2005, 08:58 PM
Bowen would be a great fit to our system. A GREAT FIT. But the odds of getting him for Ron isn't.

Yes this is true, and I do think you could get Bowen for Ron. San Antonio would be crazy not to jump all over that. However, the rest of the owners and GM's in the league would blackball the Pacers for making the Spurs even better than they already are.

sweabs
12-18-2005, 08:59 PM
Yes this is true, and I do think you could get Bowen for Ron. San Antonio would be crazy not to jump all over that. However, the rest of the owners and GM's in the league would blackball the Pacers for making the Spurs even better than they already are.

I don't think the Spurs would even think about trading Bowen for Artest.

Hicks
12-18-2005, 09:00 PM
The Spurs would never trade Bowen for Artest.

travmil
12-18-2005, 09:04 PM
Why not? You get a guy who's better at both ends of the floor, your risk is minimal because you're already loaded with veterans, and you keep other western teams from adding him all in one fell swoop. It's not nearly as crazy as you're making it out to be.

sweabs
12-18-2005, 09:07 PM
Why would they? They've proven they can win a championship with the guys they have. They've had great chemistry - why risk screwing that all up, when the already-existing product works perfect?

travmil
12-18-2005, 09:11 PM
Why would they? They've proven they can win a championship with the guys they have. They've had great chemistry - why risk screwing that all up, when the already-existing product works perfect?

I already answered that. Would you just let Dallas or Denver swoop in and add him, addressing their only glaring weaknesses, when you could have done something about it? True it's a risk, but it isn't out of the question.

Bball
12-18-2005, 09:54 PM
I already answered that. Would you just let Dallas or Denver swoop in and add him, addressing their only glaring weaknesses, when you could have done something about it? True it's a risk, but it isn't out of the question.


I see the angle you are coming from...
In a big picture sense- It is similar to us (Pacers) standing pat during our 61 win season while the Pistons decided 2nd best wasn't good enough and made the 'Sheed deal.

You're saying the Spurs have the ability to keep one of their competitors from leap-frogging them if they make a proactive move.

But the counter to that is the gamble you take with Artest and his baggage. It's (obviously) a bigger gamble than what Detroit took with 'Sheed. And do the Spurs really think that Artest on a competitor makes that competitor suddenly better than them or could it just be a step closer for the competition? The difference would be huge in how you play it. Especially, given Artest's baggage.

And the Spurs might think with Artest the bad outweighs the good and he'll actually HURT the team he goes to.

IOW... they might've considered your idea and decided he wasn't worth the gamble... for them.

-Bball

Kstat
12-18-2005, 10:04 PM
Yep, I'm sure they would have NO concerns about Ron sharing the ball with Duncan, Ginoboli, Parker, Finley, Van Exel, Barry......

If I'm Poppovich, I dont WANT another guy that wants to come in and shoot 20 times a game. I'd rather have Bowen.

Heck, ANY coach with half a mind would not trade Bowen for Artest. This isn't a video game, you have players you want to keep happy.

travmil
12-18-2005, 10:09 PM
Again, I'm not saying it's likely. I'm just saying it isn't nearly as out of the question as others have made it out to be.

Naptown Seth
12-18-2005, 10:14 PM
Yep, I'm sure they would have NO concerns about Ron sharing the ball with Duncan, Ginoboli, Parker, Finley, Van Exel, Barry......

If I'm Poppovich, I dont WANT another guy that wants to come in and shoot 20 times a game. I'd rather have Bowen.

Heck, ANY coach with half a mind would not trade Bowen for Artest. This isn't a video game, you have players you want to keep happy.

The Spurs are the only team in the league who would take Bowen over Artest, and even that's iffy.

Bowen is 34. He can;t rebound, can't pass, cant handle the rock, and his offensive repatoire is shooting the 3. Nothing more. The guy can;t even hit his free throws.

Ron still has good trade value. If you trade for him and he causes trouble, you can always pawn him off for good talent. With Bowen you've got a year or two of having an over the hill mediocre player and then nothing.

Don't foolishly underrate Ron just because he beat the crap out of your teams fans.

Kstat
12-18-2005, 10:23 PM
Again, I'm not saying it's likely. I'm just saying it isn't nearly as out of the question as others have made it out to be.


I think it's out of the question. The Spurs believe in their chemistry and talent more than they fear someone else picking up the most volatile player on planet Earth.

Unclebuck
12-18-2005, 10:50 PM
This isn't a video game, .


Exactly

hoopsforlife
12-18-2005, 10:53 PM
WARNING, THIS IS PIZZA GUY TYPING FROM HOOPSFORLIFE'S COMPUTER. ALL OPINION IN THIS POST IS THAT OF PIZZA GUY'S, NOT NECESSARILY HOOPSFORLIFE'S. HOWEVER, IT'S PROBABLY THE SAME, YOU KNOW, FATHER/SON THING.

If you look solely at talent, Artest for Bowen is a no-brainer. But, San Antonio, over the last few years has developed wonderful chemistry and an amazing team. Winning two of the last three, and being favored to do it again, why stir up the pot with a question mark like Artest?

Then, there's the other side of it where you see that SA just signed two free agents this offseason, and may not be adversed to making another deal.

But, IMO, San Antonio won't even consider it.

travmil
12-18-2005, 11:07 PM
I think it's out of the question. The Spurs believe in their chemistry and talent more than they fear someone else picking up the most volatile player on planet Earth.

And so did the Pacers when Detroit picked up the troubled Sheed lest we forget...

Obviously there are pros and cons to a deal like this. I still say it's not nearly as crazy as some of the other trade scenarios I've seen floated around here.

Kstat
12-18-2005, 11:09 PM
And so did the Pacers when Detroit picked up the troubled Sheed lest we forget...

Obviously there are pros and cons to a deal like this. I still say it's not nearly as crazy as some of the other trade scenarios I've seen floated around here.

The Pacers were not coming off a championship. This isn't close to the same situation.

travmil
12-18-2005, 11:31 PM
The Pacers were not coming off a championship. This isn't close to the same situation.

Bit of a stretch. The situations are very similar.

San Antonio is widely believed to be the team to beat (at least in the West) this year. The Pacers were widely believed to be the team to beat (at least in the East) that year.

Detroit picked up a troubled player, and leapfrogged Indiana on their way to a title. Dallas or Denver could (again "could" means it MIGHT happen, not that I'm saying it will) pick up a troubled player and do the same to San Antonio this year.

Just because the Pacers didn't win it all the previous year doesn't mean there aren't parallels in these situations.

But back to the topic...

Artest is better by far on both ends of the floor than Bowen. There's no way to deny that. Bowen is more stable by far than Ron. There's no way to deny that. I'm not saying it's going to happen, or even that it's been discussed on any level. I'm just saying that because of certain things I already discussed above, it's not the craziest idea ever.

sixthman
12-18-2005, 11:56 PM
Does some one think we could win a title with Bruce Bowen? Come on. Besides he makes half of what Artest makes so things get complicated quickly.

The Spurs by the way continually tweak their roster -

Nazr/Barry/Finley/Horry/Oberto/VanExel/Udrih all have been added in the last 17 months.

pacers16
12-18-2005, 11:58 PM
i think artest for bowen would be a good way for the pacers to get back to there defenisvy form and he offers alot more defense then artest

Kstat
12-19-2005, 12:06 AM
I'd appreciate you not quoting seth, VA. That's the only way I have to put up with his crap.

I know you didnt do it on purpose, just respectfully requesting.

I wish there was a way on PD to close that loophole....

And please ask Seth to stop referencing Artest's actions on 11/19 as if it were a badge of honor....

Kstat
12-19-2005, 12:08 AM
Oh yeah, and I do think any contending team would prefer Bown. He won't be a superstar, obviously, but he fits inside a winning team concept as well as any role player in the NBA.

Yes, Ron is way more talented and younger than Bowen, and that should say a lot about Ron's character that this is even a DISCUSSION.

Kstat
12-19-2005, 12:13 AM
Appreciated.

shags
12-19-2005, 12:32 AM
Does some one think we could win a title with Bruce Bowen? Come on. Besides he makes half of what Artest makes so things get complicated quickly.

The Spurs by the way continually tweak their roster -

Nazr/Barry/Finley/Horry/Oberto/VanExel/Udrih all have been added in the last 17 months.

Yet Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Bruce Bowen are on their FOURTH straight season of playing together. The tweaks are designed with their core group (that group) in mind, to best complement them.

Bowen's the best perimeter defender in the game, maybe the best defensive player in the league, for my money. No way do the Spurs trade Bowen for Artest. They wouldn't even think about it. This is in spite of the fact that Artest is much, much better ON the court.

PacerMan
12-19-2005, 01:19 AM
Bit of a stretch. The situations are very similar.

San Antonio is widely believed to be the team to beat (at least in the West) this year. The Pacers were widely believed to be the team to beat (at least in the East) that year.

Detroit picked up a troubled player, and leapfrogged Indiana on their way to a title. Dallas or Denver could (again "could" means it MIGHT happen, not that I'm saying it will) pick up a troubled player and do the same to San Antonio this year.

Just because the Pacers didn't win it all the previous year doesn't mean there aren't parallels in these situations.

But back to the topic...

Artest is better by far on both ends of the floor than Bowen. There's no way to deny that. Bowen is more stable by far than Ron. There's no way to deny that. I'm not saying it's going to happen, or even that it's been discussed on any level. I'm just saying that because of certain things I already discussed above, it's not the craziest idea ever.


The Pistons didn't "leapfrog" the Pacers. We would have beaten them with Rashweed if 1/2 the team wasn't hobbled. Freddie was playing fantastically at the end of the season, then was injured and invisible the whole series. Tins was hobbled, Foster too, couple others.
I think you are underestimating the impact Ron's action have had in other markets. Plenty of teams, including this team BR (before Ron) recognize that chemistry is every bit as important as overall talent in this and every other team game. I totally consider that Ron will be a detriment to any team he is on. I don't think that thought is extreme.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 01:23 AM
I <3 Bowen

Los Angeles
12-19-2005, 06:24 PM
It's a heart.

I hate you.
I thought it was a sideways badonkadonk booty.

317Kim
12-19-2005, 06:26 PM
Thatd be a very pointy badonkadonk! :laugh:

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 11:05 PM
Guys it is pretty clearly a less than sign followed by a three.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 11:06 PM
Thatd be a very pointy badonkadonk! :laugh:

:-o

pizza guy
12-19-2005, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I saw it and thought, "I am less than three times Bowen. Well, that's odd."

But, then, I figured it out.

Gamble
12-19-2005, 11:48 PM
Bruce Bowen is the single best lockdown defender. Artest a close second.
I heard the best description of Bowen vs. Artest.
Bowen is flat out annoying to have guard you.
Artest is flat out scary to have guard you.