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Unclebuck
12-18-2005, 10:05 AM
Very last paragraph. Could this be the reason. Seems to me that Rick is speaking with DH through the media. perhaps that is the only way to get through to him



http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051218&Category=SPORTS04&ArtNo=512180472&SectionCat=&Template=printart

By Mark Montieth
mark.montieth@indystar.com
December 18, 2005


NEW YORK -- The first time Jermaine O'Neal played a game in Madison Square Garden, he forgot to put his jersey on underneath his warm-ups.
So he was impressed with rookie Danny Granger's poise Saturday in the Indiana Pacers' 102-96 victory over New York.

Granger, who had missed all six of his 3-point attempts this season, hit two in the second half from the right corner, blocked three shots in the final period, grabbed three rebounds and finished with a career-high 12 points.
In the first half, Granger stumbled out of the gate, going scoreless in a five-minute appearance. But when Stephen Jackson departed with a sprained right thumb, Granger moved from power forward to small forward and found new life.

"I told him coming into the third quarter, 'Just play your game. Relax,' " said O'Neal, who led the Pacers with 31 points. "You kind of feel for rookies because they want to do so well. I said, 'Just do what you do.' He came out and did what he did."

The Pacers (14-8) hit 23-of-58 shots through the first three periods, but hit 10-of-15 in the fourth. They never got around to rebounding much, as New York (6-17) dominated the boards 57-38 and outscored them 25-11 on second-chance points.

The Pacers committed just nine turnovers, however, one in the second half, and executed when they had to at both ends of the court.

They took the lead for good on O'Neal's dunk off a pick-and-roll with Jamaal Tinsley with 1:56 remaining. It came off a called play during a timeout, and exploited the Knicks' soft defensive coverage.

It also displayed Tinsley's play-making expertise. Playing his second game after sitting out six with a strained groin, Tinsley finished with 23 points, six rebounds and seven assists.

"They didn't do a great job with the coverage, but, hey, the way Tinsley played tonight, he put the defense in a tough situation," coach Rick Carlisle said. "That was a huge play because it was so hard for Jermaine to get open looks around the basket. It gave our team some energy at the defensive end."

Granger followed by rebounding Maurice Taylor's missed jump hook, and Tinsley came back with two foul shots to open a three-point lead.

The Knicks got within a point on Jamal Crawford's two foul shots, but the Pacers sprinted to the finish. Sarunas Jasikevicius drew a foul on a jump shot and hit both free throws. He then got a steal from Marbury, setting up Austin Croshere's layup on a fake and duck-under move. Jasikevicius' free throw closed the game's scoring and left the Knicks with a sixth consecutive loss.
Granger, whose previous high this season was nine points, wasn't surprised by the evening's surprising turn of events.
"You have to keep playing," he said. "I made a lot of mistakes early -- probably more than the rest of my team put together. You have to play through it. I'm a rookie, so I'm going to make mistakes."

His first 3-pointer, in the third period, came when the shot clock was about to expire. His second, in the fourth, came off a called play.

"I've got confidence in young players who work hard," Carlisle said. "I'm more impressed with the fact he started slowly and came back and played well. You always want to see how a young guy comes back from an adverse situation."

Pacers#1Fan
12-18-2005, 10:18 AM
It does sound logical. Where's soup?

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 11:15 AM
Man, he's not even talking bout DH. That was a letdown.


Did he say why DH is not plying on last week's Rick/Mark show?

ssmall
12-18-2005, 11:23 AM
I think UB wanted to say thats the reason he is not playing a.k.a. he isn't working hard enough.

Frank Slade
12-18-2005, 12:14 PM
I think UB wanted to say thats the reason he is not playing a.k.a. he isn't working hard enough.

I have no idea if that is what Rick is really implying or not...

But if you remember the knock on Harrison in the draft , and reason he fell so far was he was labeled with a "Bad work ethic and attitude.."

Now supposedly the Pacers after drafting him of course said that was not the case...

BlueNGold
12-18-2005, 01:08 PM
I think UB wanted to say thats the reason he is not playing a.k.a. he isn't working hard enough.

I think that is about as clear of a message as we are going to get from Rick. I believe he is talking about DH as well.

Unfortunately, people need to motivate themselves to excel...and I doubt sitting him will change much if that is the problem.

Sollozzo
12-18-2005, 01:11 PM
Man, he's not even talking bout DH. That was a letdown.


Did he say why DH is not plying on last week's Rick/Mark show?


Read between the lines.

317Kim
12-18-2005, 01:15 PM
Gill plays before Hulk even takes off his warm-ups...:confused:

slyder
12-18-2005, 01:16 PM
don't you figure he's part of the artest trade package
and they don't want to risk injury?

Jermaniac
12-18-2005, 01:19 PM
He is getting traded with Ron, going down to play with his homeboy John Edwards again.

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 01:22 PM
Read between the lines.
Sorry, too much of a reach to me. I don't think Rick is using the Star to communicate with David.

David was actually doing the very thing Rick is talking about with Saras when he got nailed to the bench. He was getting better + better.

If Rick likes to see young guys bounce back sooo much he would give David a chance to do it.

Until we get better explanation, I'm going to assume David isn't playing for the same reason that Rick has done a lot of this stuff before. He prefers the known quantity over the unknown quantity that very likely could be better than the known. Rick has done this same thing with too many other young players to use it as proof that David isn't working hard.

Or, was Danny being lazy back when he couldn't get off the bench?

Saras still isn't playing at his natural position.... is he somehow not working hard enough?

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 01:25 PM
He is getting traded with Ron, going down to play with his homeboy John Edwards again.

He won't be traded, I forget who it was who came up with this theory, but Donnie doesn't trade away guys until he has a firm grasp on what kind of player he will be in the future. (ie not blow up on us once he leaves) You heard Donnie the other day, David is talented + has a great future.

tadscout
12-18-2005, 01:27 PM
Sorry, too much of a reach to me. I don't think Rick is using the Star to communicate with David.

David was actually doing the very thing Rick is talking about with Saras when he got nailed to the bench. He was getting better + better.

If Rick likes to see young guys bounce back sooo much he would give David a chance to do it.

Until we get better explanation, I'm going to assume David isn't playing for the same reason that Rick has done a lot of this stuff before. He prefers the known quantity over the unknown quantity that very likely could be better than the known. Rick has done this same thing with too many other young players to use it as proof that David isn't working hard.

Or, was Danny being lazy back when he couldn't get off the bench?

Saras still isn't playing at his natural position.... is he somehow not working hard enough?

:stupid::rant:

Unclebuck
12-18-2005, 02:00 PM
Why would Rick say that he has confidence in young players who work hard. That tells me that he does not have confidence in young players who don't work hard. DH is not playing, so I assume Rick does not have confidence in him. Connecting the dots, it seems logical to me

Bball
12-18-2005, 02:36 PM
Read between the lines.

Soup doesn't believe in reading between the lines. ...And I am sure there are some other fans that way too.

-Bball

Bball
12-18-2005, 02:45 PM
Why would Rick say that he has confidence in young players who work hard. That tells me that he does not have confidence in young players who don't work hard. DH is not playing, so I assume Rick does not have confidence in him. Connecting the dots, it seems jogical to me


I'd have to agree. Where I might split with you is that I think it's lockerroom and practice issues almost exclusively at play here. I haven't seen enough of Harrison on the court to make a determination one way or the other. And his minutes have been SO limited that I'd expect some mistakes and I would think Carlisle would too. That could be in play here... If Carlisle expects some mistakes but doesn't think the team can afford mistakes right now THAT could be why Harrison sits (or part of it).


So until I see something a little more substantial I can't really talk too much about his in game performance. Now, if Rick has laid out a specific thing he wants from him on the court and Harrison went into the the game and flat out ignored him, then I could see how that would get his leash tugged... quickly...

Harrison is a 2nd year player so the bar could be higher for him this year. Maybe he's not quite accepting of that. And there could be some things left over from last year. Let's not forget, until injured, he had an expanded role last year. That could've elevated his own expectations and ego and caused him to shift into cruise control rather than getting down to business and fighting for his turf all over again. Maybe he thinks he paid his dues last year and proved himself?


-Bball

Arcadian
12-18-2005, 02:58 PM
I don't believe in reading inbetween the lines.

If this is Rick speaking to David he is a bad coach. Rick should have already told David why he isn't playing or more importantly what he needs to do to get playing time.

There is no reason to bring it out into the public and that has never been Rick's style.

Bball
12-18-2005, 03:09 PM
I don't believe in reading inbetween the lines.

If this is Rick speaking to David he is a bad coach. Rick should have already told David why he isn't playing or more importantly what he needs to do to get playing time.

There is no reason to bring it out into the public and that has never been Rick's style.

I doubt this is the sole thing that Carlisle has said on the issue. I imagine Harrison doesn't need to read the between the lines in a newspaper to know what Rick is thinking. I think he's been told or given enough info he should know.

I could buy it is Rick further reinforcing a message he's already given Harrison, tho.

-Bball

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 07:53 PM
I don't believe in reading inbetween the lines.

If this is Rick speaking to David he is a bad coach. Rick should have already told David why he isn't playing or more importantly what he needs to do to get playing time.

There is no reason to bring it out into the public and that has never been Rick's style.

Word.

SoupIsGood
12-18-2005, 08:20 PM
Why would Rick say that he has confidence in young players who work hard. That tells me that he does not have confidence in young players who don't work hard. DH is not playing, so I assume Rick does not have confidence in him. Connecting the dots, it seems logical to me
I think you are omitting a few dots. It is somewhat logical if you only consider this certain quote and the fact that he hasn't been playing.

Some other dots -

Rick and many others raved about the offseason he had this year. "He looks like a different person," remember? He worked hard after arriving here too. All together I think he's lost maybe 50 pounds or so. Are we to assume that work ethic has suddenly disappeared?

Rick's strange obsession with smallball this season.

Rick's extreme tendency to favor vets over young players. We are loaded with old guys at the big positions.

David's improvement in his main three areas of concern this season; fouling, rebounding, conditioning. He's only played limited minutes, but the improvement has been there. Did he do this by not working hard?

The fact that this team has functioned better with a shorter rotation. We played a lot of guys at the beginning of the season, and it looked really sloppy. Rick at the time was mentioned possibly shortening the rotation the lineup, and did. At first, Granger was the casualty, but now it is David. Given Rick's fascination with playing the smallest players we can, is that surprising?

(I think we had Jax at PF the other day :shakehead)

Also, call me crazy, but I think David has played pretty hard this season when he had got minutes. Sure, maybe he struggles with rotating at defense sometimes, but the effort has been there. Anyone remember how he got hurt? He sent himself flying into the air for a block with total disregard to his body (something Jack can learn, what's with not diving for looseballs?)

Honestly, I think David should get the rest of Cro's minutes at the 5, and that Jeff should be relegated to backup 4. He just hasn't looked himself this season... which comes back to the earning minutes thing. You're telling me that Jeff has been sooo good this season that you shouldn't even consider playing David, Rick?

http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/5238NotBuyingIt.jpg

clownskull
12-18-2005, 08:52 PM
man, i think he is refering to him - indierectly. he had the size and ability to have been drafted much earlier than he was. if i recall, his coach at colorado didn't exactly give a glowing account of dave which probably played a large role in that draft stock.
i imagine rick is currently seeing a guy who is going through the motions in practice. he doesn't see the desire to challenge himself and his teamates in practice to get better.

granger is of course getting more p.t. because of what rick said in the article and because we no longer have artest in the plans and haven't acquired his replacement yet. i also recall rick, donnie and larry all saying granger was able to contribute imeadiately and i don't ever recall any of them ever saying the same thing about dave. in fact, i thought they said things to the contrary last year when we drafted dave.

it seems pretty obvious that when he refered to young players, that would certainly include dave in that group.

able
12-18-2005, 09:17 PM
1: the space between the lines, where there are no letters is known as "whitespace" (strangely enough independant of the background chosen) and it it left empty on purpose, so letters can be defined as such and are readable with the human eye.

2: I posted what Rick thinks about david in the other harrission thread, it says the exact opposite of what the "grassy knoll gang" is saying here.

If you guys don't like a player, a theory is created and ad nauseum posted, let me explain that even repeating it 700 times a day does not make it true.

Tim
12-18-2005, 09:23 PM
Why would Rick say that he has confidence in young players who work hard. That tells me that he does not have confidence in young players who don't work hard. DH is not playing, so I assume Rick does not have confidence in him. Connecting the dots, it seems logical to me

While it may seem logical, its not always the case. Not too long ago many people here were really down on Tins, saying he was a major problem here when in fact he really was sick and then injured.

It took Artest going public to really show the light. Ron appeared to be on his best behavior from what we could see but in reality it was Ron, not Tinsley, being the major problem.


I can only hope you are right and that the issue is David must work harder in practice. But I also think if he wasn't then Rick and Larry and JO and Cabbage and Austin and anyone else in that locker room would have told him to get with the program and this would have been resolved long ago.

Hopefully Kstat will read this and tell me if he sees any similarities between this situation and what Prince went through. I wonder if Rick may be doing the same thing with David.

Bball
12-18-2005, 09:39 PM
1: the space between the lines, where there are no letters is known as "whitespace" (strangely enough independant of the background chosen) and it it left empty on purpose, so letters can be defined as such and are readable with the human eye.

2: I posted what Rick thinks about david in the other harrission thread, it says the exact opposite of what the "grassy knoll gang" is saying here.

If you guys don't like a player, a theory is created and ad nauseum posted, let me explain that even repeating it 700 times a day does not make it true.


What makes things true is when actions observed and actions taken begin to backup the "theory" regardless of what the words you are reading tell you. There comes a point in these debates where you choose what you want to believe regardless of the contradictory evidence that is shown or found.

But when you have to flat-out ignore physical, tangible things to support your position then that is when you are being taken for a ride and closing your eyes.

What we have here is Harrison isn't playing. There's a reason for it....whatever the case may be. All the lala fafa talk about David ealier in the year obviously meant nothing.

IMHO- UB's onto the reason Harrison's not playing whether you agree with him or Rick or not. It adds up.

-Bball

able
12-18-2005, 09:50 PM
What people write, professional writers, are also observations, one's they're paid to make.
If they want to leave subliminal messages, then there are better ways to go by then "creative theory creation"

As you are clearly not willing to read the other Harrisson post, here is what I posted there, and to make it more clear, these are the words from Rick Carlisle's mouth, as spoken on the Carlisle show, near verbatim taken from the recording.
Now it is possible that someone hacked my computer or MR's and altered the recording in which case I claim "mea culpa".



I agree I love to use him more, he's had opportunities to play this year, his best games have come against teams with big centers, most notable the Heat the two games we played against them, he's had a couple of other good games, ya know, he's played well at times and it's sorta like ok, well what comes first, the good play or the experience to be able to play good ya know, and eh David showed some signs of being a real force last year uh, ya know we used him some last night and uh, when he was on the floor it wasn't that he was playing bad, ya know, on an individual bases ya know so much, ya know as the group was struggling, so it's been hard to keep him on the floor at times, I have tinkered with the idea of starting him, there was a chance that we were gonna start him last night in Boston, but you gotta have the right kind of line-ups out there to do that and it's hard to start him and Jermaine out there with ya know teams that put a big out there that can shoot a 3 pt shot, ya know, Boston didn't start that way last night but we've seen a lot of other teams that start that way in recent games. To kinda sum this up, eh, we like David, he works hard, he's worked to get himself healthy again which is a great sign and eh, ya know, he's ready to play and I do believe he'll take advantage of the opportunities if he gets them.

Bball
12-18-2005, 10:04 PM
What people write, professional writers, are also observations, one's they're paid to make.
If they want to leave subliminal messages, then there are better ways to go by then "creative theory creation"

As you are clearly not willing to read the other Harrisson post, here is what I posted there, and to make it more clear, these are the words from Rick Carlisle's mouth, as spoken on the Carlisle show, near verbatim taken from the recording.
Now it is possible that someone hacked my computer or MR's and altered the recording in which case I claim "mea culpa".

But what do those words (Carlisle's) mean if not backed with action?

Don't misread what I am saying... I'm not kicking Harrison to the curb right now. I've said before I have not seen enough of him on the court (this season) to make any determination at all about his play.

All I can say is Carlisle has a reason for what he is doing. It may or may not be a good reason. Take that up with him.

But the comment UB has pointed out, and Carlisle's actions, and Harrison's actions (of late) tend to paint a picture that makes the most sense regardless of what Carlisle says in the context of his radio program.

There's absolutely nothing in the comments you quoted that tells me anything at all about why Harrison is not playing. If it's there and I missed it, please point it out. If I take what Carlisle just said at face value, then there is no reason Harrison is not playing and he should be out there. But he's not... and there has to be a reason...

-Bball

able
12-18-2005, 10:15 PM
1: UB said harrisson is not working hard enough, you subscribed, Rick said the opposite, henceforth you are both wrong or coach is a liar.
2: What becomes clear to me is that Rick does not really know when or how to use him, because he wants to play another style of ball, (small) for which case the most compelling statement is that he considered to start him against Boston but did not do that because they might start with a big on the 3pt line.
3: You to must have noticed (like Peck) that Rick has hardly played ANY of our C's (at least the real ones) this season, even Pollard is dying under DNP's, or are we betting he doesn't work hard enough either?
4: the more you read what he said, the more it is clear that he is uncomfortable playing "new" players, and don't bring up Granger because in that case his hand was forced by Ron, and even that he tries to prevent by playing Tins/Saras/AJ (at least two of them) all the time, while moving jax to SF, result, DG is on the bench, he played great the last game, ONCE RICK HAD NO OTHER OPTION LEFT.
Fred out, Jax out, Ron out, there was no one else he could play!

Rick simply does not like to play young'ns.

Unclebuck
12-18-2005, 10:56 PM
I don't think Rick on purpose said that to try and get through to DH. I think it was more of simply an honest appraisal from Rick about how he feels about Granger and about young players specifically.

Unclebuck
12-18-2005, 11:00 PM
Rick simply does not like to play young'ns.



But he has confidence in the young players who work hard. And I guarantee you he plays the players that he has confidence in. So obviously he does not have confidence in DH right now. We all can agree with that. It certainly is possible that Rick does not have confidence in DH for some reason other than "he's not playing hard" But Rick just gave one of his reasons for not playing a young player.

So you make up your own mind.

maybe he just thinks DH stinks, or doesn't like him for some reason.

But if DH thought for one second DH would help the team win DH would be playing sigificant minutes.

able
12-18-2005, 11:16 PM
But he has confidence in the young players who work hard. And I guarantee you he plays the players that he has confidence in. So obviously he does not have confidence in DH right now. We all can agree with that. It certainly is possible that Rick does not have confidence in DH for some reason other than "he's not playing hard" But Rick just gave one of his reasons for not playing a young player.

So you make up your own mind.

maybe he just thinks DH stinks, or doesn't like him for some reason.

But if DH thought for one second DH would help the team win DH would be playing sigificant minutes.

What part of "We like David, he works hard, he's worked to get himself healthy again which is a great sign and eh, ya know, he's ready to play" do you not understand?
Why on God's green earth do you keep trying to sell me something that in no way is proven to be referring to David Harrisson, ignoring something said directly by the coach on the subject of the in this case mentioned kid ?
I do not need to make up my mind, I have no other information that makes me believe that Rick Carlisle is lying, so I have to believe what he is saying.

Sollozzo
12-18-2005, 11:16 PM
But he has confidence in the young players who work hard. And I guarantee you he plays the players that he has confidence in. So obviously he does not have confidence in DH right now. We all can agree with that. It certainly is possible that Rick does not have confidence in DH for some reason other than "he's not playing hard" But Rick just gave one of his reasons for not playing a young player.

So you make up your own mind.

maybe he just thinks DH stinks, or doesn't like him for some reason.

But if DH thought for one second DH would help the team win DH would be playing sigificant minutes.

Agreed.

I dont know why people keep trying to say that Rick doesn't want to play young players. That's just false.

Granger is a ROOKIE. Granger is getting solid minutes as a rookie, Harrison is at the end of the bench as a second year player. What does that tell you? Obviously, Granger must be busting his *** off in practice. Granger has obviously earned his minutes.

Rick gave David minutes last year in the games he was able to play. Rick and everyone saw that David can play. Obviously, there is something David isn't doing right for Rick not to be playing him. It's that simple.

able
12-18-2005, 11:19 PM
Agreed.

I dont know why people keep trying to say that Rick doesn't want to play young players. That's just false.

Granger is a ROOKIE. Granger is getting solid minutes as a rookie, Harrison is at the end of the bench as a second year player. What does that tell you? Obviously, Granger must be busting his *** off in practice.

Rick gave David minutes last year in the games he was able to play. Rick and everyone saw that David can play. Obviously, there is something David isn't doing right for Rick not to be playing him. It's that simple.

uh wait, perhaps there's something Rick isn't doing right ? or are you really gonna drop that thought because he can't be wrong? in which case, why then do you not believe what he said on the radio Thursday?

don't start basing theories on assumptions while ignoring the facts in front of you, it leave so little room for error.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 01:18 AM
What makes things true is when actions observed and actions taken begin to backup the "theory" regardless of what the words you are reading tell you. There comes a point in these debates where you choose what you want to believe regardless of the contradictory evidence that is shown or found.

But when you have to flat-out ignore physical, tangible things to support your position then that is when you are being taken for a ride and closing your eyes.

What we have here is Harrison isn't playing. There's a reason for it....whatever the case may be. All the lala fafa talk about David ealier in the year obviously meant nothing.

IMHO- UB's onto the reason Harrison's not playing whether you agree with him or Rick or not. It adds up.

-Bball

You have ONE tangible thing to cling to, the fact that David isn't playing. That is it, and there is no direct correlation to what you are talking about, no matter how many times you want to say we are flat-out ignoring something. It's possible, sure, but again you're getting into your speculation = god thing.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 01:19 AM
I dont know why people keep trying to say that Rick doesn't want to play young players. That's just false.



:lol2:

Hicks
12-19-2005, 01:44 AM
:lol2:

:granger:

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 01:47 AM
:granger:

Notice that he is the best SF on the team, hell the only SF on the team...... and he still isn't starting.


But come on, are you honestly telling me that Rick prefers to play young guys?

Bball
12-19-2005, 01:49 AM
You have ONE tangible thing to cling to, the fact that David isn't playing.

That's a considerable thing right there.

Before you jump on me too much... I agree with you. At least to the point I think Harrison needs to get a game or two to either prove himself or 'remove' himself from the lineup for the long haul.

BUT -if- there are some behind the scene wranglings that are going on with David in regards to working hard, bad attitude, etc. then I take back the above. Rick needs to nip that in bud... If it exists... He can sit until he's traded or, if possible, jettison him to the D league in that scenario.



That is it, and there is no direct correlation to what you are talking about, no matter how many times you want to say we are flat-out ignoring something. It's possible, sure, but again you're getting into your speculation = god thing.

I'm not going to put much stock in Carlisle raving about a player if he won't play that player.

I just don't know whether to blame Harrison or the coach for Harrison not playing.

Does that make sense?

-Bball

Hicks
12-19-2005, 01:52 AM
Obviously he has a history of favoring vets. No question. That doesn't mean that's why David isn't playing. He played David before 11/19, and he played him early this year. Something has happened to make him change his mind. That suggests (not confirm) David screwed up somewhere.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2005, 02:01 AM
Obviously he has a history of favoring vets. No question. That doesn't mean that's why David isn't playing. He played David before 11/19, and he played him early this year. Something has happened to make him change his mind. That suggests (not confirm) David screwed up somewhere.

OK, so you agree that he favors vets. I don't see why his lack of playing time is concerning you then. David has played a lot in three stretches of his career so far. Pre-brawl, post-braw, and pre-pre-Ron-trade-request.

In all three cases, we were either mssively short-handed (as in Britton Johnsen short-handed), or Jeff was out with injury.


It would seem that David isn't playing mainly because coach prefers Foster, Cro, and JO over him (the vets).... in fact, David's benching and Foster's return this year were one game apart, I think.

Edit - It was the same game. ^

Hicks
12-19-2005, 02:02 AM
That's true; Foster's abscence has had a lot to do with David not playing.

Fool
12-19-2005, 02:41 AM
Carlisle doesn't have to not like a player, to not play the player. He never spoke poorly of Tayshaun, he just kepy playing Curry. There was never any real issue with Tayshaun not working enough in practice, Carlisle just didn't play him.

Going from DH isn't playing to DH must be doing something wrong in order to justify his lack of playing time is a false step IMO. I agree that Carlisle plays the players he is confident in. He can also over-rely on those players and not give other players a real chance to earn his confidence.

Side note: He also seems only lets players play in a manner that he is confident in (there is more evidence of this then the former point) and can over-rely on that as well, not allowing the players a chance to win his confidence in other areas/styles of play.)

indygeezer
12-19-2005, 07:45 AM
Carlisle doesn't have to not like a player, to not play the player. He never spoke poorly of Tayshaun, he just kepy playing Curry. There was never any real issue with Tayshaun not working enough in practice, Carlisle just didn't play him.

Going from DH isn't playing to DH must be doing something wrong in order to justify his lack of playing time is a false step IMO. I agree that Carlisle plays the players he is confident in. He can also over-rely on those players and not give other players a real chance to earn his confidence.

Side note: He also seems only lets players play in a manner that he is confident in (there is more evidence of this then the former point) and can over-rely on that as well, not allowing the players a chance to win his confidence in other areas/styles of play.)


This type of thinking would fit perfectly with his micromanaging play calling style.

sixthman
12-19-2005, 08:45 AM
That does kind of blow UB's theory:

Carlisle quote
To kinda sum this up, eh, we like David, he works hard, he's worked to get himself healthy again which is a great sign and eh, ya know, he's ready to play and I do believe he'll take advantage of the opportunities if he gets them.

Unclebuck
12-19-2005, 09:15 AM
What part of "We like David, he works hard, he's worked to get himself healthy again which is a great sign and eh, ya know, he's ready to play" do you not understand?
Why on God's green earth do you keep trying to sell me something that in no way is proven to be referring to David Harrisson, ignoring something said directly by the coach on the subject of the in this case mentioned kid ?
I do not need to make up my mind, I have no other information that makes me believe that Rick Carlisle is lying, so I have to believe what he is saying.



OH, I understand what Rick is saying. Do I think he's lying. I won't accuse him of doing that, but he is and does hold things back from the media as well he should.

able you are correct, nothing has been proven and if I presented my theory as fact I apologize because clearly it is not fact.

The only fact we know is DH is not playing. I don't have the slightest idea if he is working hard or not. But I do know he's not playing, and I don't believe he's injured.

The reason I'm not upset about him not playing is because when he has played he's looked horrible. That is my opinion. If I were the coach I would not play him either. I'll leave it at that.

I will say if we cannot present theories (with some tangible evidence that their might be some truth to it) in this forum, then we might as well shut it down.

able
12-19-2005, 09:34 AM
UB,

1. you can post whatever you like, but credence is given on content, not on who can make up the most far fetched theory :D
2. we all know he aint playing, quite a few of us blame this on Rick, you said it was perhaps because he did not work hard enough, Rick says he works hard, so that kind of ruins your case.
3. awfuli or not, he is not getting any chance, while he was improving, to some of us. this is a RC pattern, Det's seen it, we see it, and Granger is NOT an example, he only really played since Ron went out, shortly before that he was glued to the bench as well, with Jax going down against the Knicks, he got more time, more exposure, let's see how much he gets with Jax and Fred back.

Finally, if you present a theory that is workable then great, but as soon as it is shown flawed to say the least, I would withdraw the theory, but that is just me :)
And I'm only getting on your case because it is one of the very few threads not about who we are getting for Artest, and all related hoopla. :D

Pacesetter
12-19-2005, 11:34 AM
Man, he's not even talking bout DH. That was a letdown.


Did he say why DH is not plying on last week's Rick/Mark show?

To kinda steal something Clark Kellogg mentioned in the WB4 broadcast during the Knicks game. Some players are lacking "basketball IQ" ... it's what he called the players ability to listen to Coach Carlisle and make the necessary changes he called for without delay. The more "Basketball IQ" they had, the faster they could employ the changes Coach wanted made. Apparently Kellogg alluded to the idea some players were lacking in this department. Now, was he talking about DH, I dunno, but I kinda took it that way.

Harrison is just having to grow up without standing in the shadows of pops. He's got to take his career into his own hands and turn it into something positive for his self. I hope he can make the adjustment. Also, look at it this way ... JO spent 4 years on the pine in Portland before he came to Indiana and blossomed into "JO!" Harrison's getting some time, but if he expects to be a regular part of the rotation he's going to have to listen to Coach, and make changes as quickly as is humanly possible. JMO.

themachotaco
12-19-2005, 03:16 PM
In the first half, Granger stumbled out of the gate, going scoreless in a five-minute appearance. But when Stephen Jackson departed with a sprained right thumb, Granger moved from power forward to small forward and found new life.


I think this is the more important note from the article... and I hope that RC "read between the lines" here. Granger is a three, and playing him at the four is a detriment to his development and to the team.

I didn't see any of the preseason games... when Granger was having success, was he playing the 3 or the 4?

Anthem
01-02-2006, 11:55 PM
Thought this was worth bumping. Two quotes on Pacers.Com seem to say this ain't so.


It felt good to get out and get some playing time. I was able to show them that I could play. People donít realize how deep of a team this is. It felt good to get rewarded for hard work. Hopefully, this helps get me a bigger role. We kept it going all game and Iím ready for the west coast trip.


David Harrison hasnít played a lot recently. His approach to keeping himself ready and his professionalism has been great.

sixthman
01-03-2006, 12:19 AM
One has to ask: Why hasn't he gotten playing time before? David obviously is the big with the greatest upside. Let him play and get the experience, please.

pizza guy
01-03-2006, 12:29 AM
yeah, he really showed it tonight. I was happy with his performance, and I think it earned him some more playing time in the near future.

Will Galen
01-03-2006, 12:47 AM
Thought this was worth bumping. Two quotes on Pacers.Com seem to say this ain't so.

If both of those comments occured when Unclebuck posted you would have a point. However, Buck posted back on the 18th of December, 15 days ago.

Didn't it ever occur to you that maybe Harrison got Carlisle's point back then and has been working hard since then?

Anthem
01-03-2006, 12:48 AM
One has to ask: Why hasn't he gotten playing time before? David obviously is the big with the greatest upside. Let him play and get the experience, please.
My personal guess? Because Carlisle doesn't like to play guys that he doesn't deem ready. And since Harrison's issues are all game-related (avoiding cheap fouls, etc), he's never gonna be ready until he gets some playing time.

Anthem
01-03-2006, 12:49 AM
If both of those comments occured when Unclebuck posted you would have a point. However, Buck posted back on the 18th of December, 15 days ago.

Didn't it ever occur to you that maybe Harrison got Carlisle's point back then and has been working hard since then?
Could be. I'm certainly not privy to what happens in practice.

Still, I doubt it. Everything we've seen from or about Hulk says he's working hard.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 12:52 AM
Didn't it ever occur to you that maybe Harrison got Carlisle's point back then and has been working hard since then?

Why are you so quick to think that he at one point wasn't working hard? Even back then Rick was saying his work ethic was great.

Will Galen
01-03-2006, 01:07 AM
Why are you so quick to think that he at one point wasn't working hard? Even back then Rick was saying his work ethic was great.


Link?

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 01:33 AM
Link?

Rick said it on his radio show. Able transcribed it in a different thread and referenced it in this thread, a few post back (second page).

SoupIsGood
02-28-2006, 05:35 PM
1: the space between the lines, where there are no letters is known as "whitespace" (strangely enough independant of the background chosen) and it it left empty on purpose, so letters can be defined as such and are readable with the human eye.



I ran across this thread while looking for that crazy Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde thead, and saw this. Just wanted to say that this was freaking classic. I might wear it as a signature sometime.