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View Full Version : OK... I believe those that say Sjax won't pass to Saras



Bball
12-16-2005, 07:20 PM
That wasn't pretty just now.... I can't blame Saras for being angry.

Keep the ball moving... keep the defense moving...

-Bball

Bball
12-16-2005, 07:26 PM
Surely I'm not the only one that saw that? Sjax went into dribble mode with nothing available and Saras wanted the ball back and Sjax didn't pass. Saras finally spun around and slapped his hands together... and appeared to say something 'in anger'.

And he was correct IMHO. That is where I don't get Carlisle sometimes because he should tightening the leash on any player that stalls the flow of the offense in that way. Immediately. It's one thing to just miss seeing a pass or open player... it's another when you have nothing available to you and you don't get the ball back out (with a clear option).

-Bball

able
12-16-2005, 08:00 PM
Jax having the ball = Al having the ball = Black hole having the ball

Tins doesn;t get it back from him either and only with 4 seconds left and NO option for a shot will he give it to JO to solve his problem

the man is a pestilence

Hicks
12-16-2005, 08:09 PM
I saw it too. Runi was obviously (and rightfully) pissed.

tadscout
12-16-2005, 08:12 PM
Yeah, I hope he's (Jackson) is gone w/ Ron... and I agree w/ the Al statement able, that's why I sure hope we don't bring him back...

Frank Slade
12-16-2005, 08:18 PM
right this is the Jax I cannot stand ,
he gives you one good game of team basketball ,
and it's right back to jackin up shots no matter who is open , and forcing the shot... no wonder his FG% is in the gutter....

Either pass the ball or hit the road Jax.....

ssmall
12-16-2005, 08:19 PM
Well he is awful more or less the whole season.

Calgary Jazz
12-16-2005, 08:21 PM
I saw it too. Runi was obviously (and rightfully) pissed.

Thats why I think he made a mistake coming to Pacers. He should be a Jazzman, we share the ball, and play team basketball. Carlisle is not using Saras skills at all on offense. To much one on one basketball.

hoopburners
12-16-2005, 08:54 PM
Thats why I think he made a mistake coming to Pacers. He should be a Jazzman, we share the ball, and play team basketball. Carlisle is not using Saras skills at all on offense. To much one on one basketball.

Saras chose the Pacers for the fact that he feels he can win a championship with them. Jazz are nowhere near a championship team.

indytoad
12-16-2005, 09:00 PM
Saras chose the Pacers for the fact that he feels he can win a championship with them. Jazz are nowhere near a championship team.

True, but you must agree that Rick is completely underutilizing Saras.

It's mostly because of Rick's comfort blanket, I think.

IndyToad
Starting

Calgary Jazz
12-16-2005, 09:02 PM
Agree with that, but he would be playing more enjoyble baskteball for himself in Utah. Now he is suffering. And without Artest I do not think that these chances are that good anymore.

granger
12-16-2005, 09:30 PM
also AJ won't pass.

i wish we trade em both

and i wish both saras and granger get more minutes.

DeS
12-16-2005, 09:43 PM
Jax having the ball = Al having the ball = Black hole having the ball
Quote of the week! :laugh:

CableKC
12-16-2005, 09:54 PM
True, but you must agree that Rick is completely underutilizing Saras.

It's mostly because of Rick's comfort blanket, I think.

IndyToad
Starting

:laugh: AJ = Carlisle's blanky :laugh:

<< insert picture of Linus clutching his blanket ans sucking his thumb >>

CableKC
12-16-2005, 09:55 PM
Who wants to bet that this is going to become an issue?

pizza guy
12-16-2005, 09:55 PM
Yeah, I saw that and was rather upset with Jax. I hope he goes in the Ron deal as well.

Harmonica
12-16-2005, 09:56 PM
Jax having the ball = Al having the ball = Black hole having the ball

Tins doesn;t get it back from him either and only with 4 seconds left and NO option for a shot will he give it to JO to solve his problem

the man is a pestilence

And Ron is a victim, right?

heywoode
12-16-2005, 10:12 PM
http://images.snapfish.com/34579%3B%3A723232%7Ffp336%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E963%3E74 5%3EWSNRCG%3D323339538%3B3%3A7nu0mrj

Jermaniac
12-16-2005, 10:14 PM
So what he missed one pass to Runi? The next time down the court he hit Runi running across the lane for a jumpshot

able
12-16-2005, 10:18 PM
And Ron is a victim, right?
Did I say that anywhere ?
Is it pertinent to the post?
Is it of interest in this post ?
Has it got anything to do with basketball?

Have you gone of your rocker?

denyfizle
12-16-2005, 10:22 PM
TRADE JACKSON PLEASE

Harmonica
12-16-2005, 10:23 PM
Did I say that anywhere ?
Is it pertinent to the post?
Is it of interest in this post ?
Has it got anything to do with basketball?

Have you gone of your rocker?

You spent an inordinate amount of time and energy defending a guy who singlehandedly wrecked this franchise, but you call Jackson a pestilence?

Bball
12-16-2005, 10:38 PM
So what he missed one pass to Runi? The next time down the court he hit Runi running across the lane for a jumpshot

No, this wasn't just a missed pass opportunity. This is a case of ball movement (or lack thereof), Sjax having nothing, and Saras calling for the ball to keep the offense going (not just thinking he had a shot).

Meanwhile, Sjax holds and dribbles the ball with absolutely nothing available to him and the shot clock ticking away.

It was clear Sjax had nothing so get the ball moving and keep the defense moving. Don't let them hone in on anything.

You want to see players stop cutting? What Sjax did is the recipe. You want to see players thinking twice before making a pass to Sjax? There's your recipe. You want to see chemistry issues develop and coaching questioned? There's your recipe.

Does Carlisle have control of this team or not? I realize I am focusing on one possession of a game but it was SO blatant that it needs to be focused on.

Again, this isn't a case of just missing a pass. This is a case of -refusing- to make a (necessary) pass. I'm not ready to declare he did it because he has something against Saras (tho I'm open-minded to the possibility). It could be simple me-ism (trying to put an I in "team"). But whether it's pettiness or is a sign of his basketball IQ, it is the kind of thing that can't be allowed to exist on a team. If the coach can't stop it, then management needs to fix it... whatever that takes...

Did Jay say he wanted to trade all 15 players? That's harsh.... 10 or 11 might do it :cry:

-Bball

Gamble
12-16-2005, 10:39 PM
Jackson just isn't a smart bb player its that simple. He is talented though
and when he gets his touch it doesn't matter if its forced or not.
The first half of his season with the Hawks sucked and then
he got comfortable and was amazing. I'll still give him a year, i mean look
at what people put up with RON.

Gamble
12-16-2005, 10:45 PM
No, this wasn't just a missed pass opportunity. This is a case of ball movement (or lack thereof), Sjax having nothing, and Saras calling for the ball to keep the offense going (not just thinking he had a shot).

Thats what shooters/slashers do and i am not defending him i just
think you say to yourself when he makes the shot, "wow" and when he
doesn't "you idiot." Its not smart but guys with talent and confidence
do it alot in the NBA.

CableKC
12-16-2005, 10:46 PM
http://images.snapfish.com/34579%3B%3A723232%7Ffp336%3Enu%3D325%3B%3E963%3E74 5%3EWSNRCG%3D323339538%3B3%3A7nu0mrj
exactly.....:buddies:

Gamble
12-16-2005, 10:49 PM
also AJ won't pass.

i wish we trade em both

and i wish both saras and granger get more minutes.
I will say this AJ hit some big shots down the stretch and proved his
worth today. I just wish saras would play the point and AJ the sg.

Bball
12-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Thats what shooters/slashers do and i am not defending him i just
think you say to yourself when he makes the shot, "wow" and when he
doesn't "you idiot." Its not smart but guys with talent and confidence
do it alot in the NBA.

Did you see the play in question? Because I didn't see it as a situation as you describe it. FWIW, I don't think he ultimately took a shot.... he just had nothing, stalled the offense, and wasted clock.

-Bball

Gamble
12-16-2005, 10:54 PM
Thats why i said he isn't a smart player and if he does have a problem
with saras he will get moved. I am just saying everyone is hitting hard
on Jax because his shot isn't falling. I guess i am just willing to give him
one normal season with us.

Gamble
12-16-2005, 10:58 PM
Alot of times slashers what for a lane to open up and if it doesn't
they pass it out. With Jax he isn't smart and doesn't get the pass out.
You see it alot with ron its just he is more mindful of the clock.

stipo
12-17-2005, 04:45 AM
This was the first game this year that I saw in person and I watched in awe and dismay how splintered this team is! Jackson refused to have any interaction with Saras for ANY of the game as far as I saw, except for a moment when yelling at him during a time out (Foster noticed it and sort of shook his head).
Jax has to go IMHO after I witnessed all of this. His buddy of Negativity this night was Tins. They both seemed pretty distant to most of the rest of the team exept JO some times, they know where their bread is buttered.

Raskolnikov
12-17-2005, 05:08 AM
Jackson just isn't a smart bb player its that simple. He is talented though
and when he gets his touch it doesn't matter if its forced or not.
The first half of his season with the Hawks sucked and then
he got comfortable and was amazing. I'll still give him a year, i mean look
at what people put up with RON.
There's a difference between Ron's situation and Jackson's. Ron hurt the Pacers when he was off the court, not when he was on it. Jackson hurts the Pacers when he's on the court. He may have a couple of great nights every season like against the Wizards, but in the end, he remains the main disruptor of letting the Pacers play team basketball.

So I say : hit the road, Jax, and don't you come back no more no more no more no more, hit the road, jax, and don't you come back no more.

hoopsforlife
12-17-2005, 06:12 AM
Trade Jax for Ron and this team will be OK.
I am still in the give Ron another chance camp. Kind of lonely here but both of us will survive. I hope.

I have always thought Jax was the (a) main problem with the Pacers and Ron was second. Ron gave his all on the court.
I saw the play where Steve Jackson would not pass to Saras, Saras smacked his hands together in disgust and moved on. I think if Jax had passed him the ball we would have scored a layup. If Jax had broken to the basket he would have gotten the return pass.

I say let Ron return and trade Jax.

Julius Sour
12-17-2005, 06:19 AM
Guys don't You worry 'bout Saras&SJAX issue.

In Lithuania PG's are trained (since they are like 10 yrsold) like they can come up to the guy that has messed up the offencive flow and hit him into stomach. BECAUSE THE POINTGUARD IS THE NEXT MAN AFTER COACH WHEN YOU PLAY BBALL GAME. And if the PG is shouting to the man with the ball to pass it HE HAS TO DO IT. Coma.

If SJAXs is not listening to Saras or Tins or even AJ while he's at PG spot that guy has to go or to get beaten into his head untill he'll understand that. coma, again.

If Pacers (franchise+fans) see the potential in SJAX as a part of this team than he has to be benched after each time he acts like that. You should deal with hime as with PAVLOV'S DOG (http://evolution.massey.ac.nz/assign2/KD/finalpavlov.html) - no pass (when neaded) - bench. no pass - bench. I think that trick should work if You will practice it for like 5-10 games (a month). The reflex should come to him, that if he passes - he plays. No pass - bench. :))

I can BET, that Saras HAS TOLD EVERYTHING THAT YOU COULD WISH AND IMAGINE THAT YOU WOULD SAY TO SJAX in a locker room.

Saras is not a TRU WARIAR (or how some of ex-pacers call themselves). HE IS A TRUE GENERAL. coma.

I can asure You if he was pissed this time and Coach C. didn't put SJax in his place for his behaviour in next 2-3 games You will see Saras coming up to Sjax like his going to beat **** out of him. That's what LT pgs are about.

The adoptation period has gone - Saras will start acting like he is used to... or then he should be 1st who will have to be traded and Pacers could remain that "Hommies...boys in da hood... OGs" kinnda team, that will NEVER NEVER NEVER reach conference finals in next 10 years with this attitude.

Brawls, fights and this Mike Tyson like behaviour will be trademark of this franchise...

Don't want to upset You. Maybe my "slang" language isn't so deep and good, but I'm sure that You understand what I mean.

As I see Mr. Reggie was the last Intelegent starter of this team (Saras still has no full support from JO, Tins... wierd, but he had some from Ron). \

My guess is That SJAX is the key and the answer to all "THAT" bull**** thats cookin right now inside the team....

Js

Disclaimer: i hope i didn't get too offensive. The fact is that I want pacers to win as much as You all do. i feel that this won't change even when Saras will end his career down here.

EDIT: I feal that Ron realy has had some serious conflicts with SJAX and was not supported on that by JO and that's why his "...This would be better for the team..." didn't sound some mistified right now.

Raskolnikov
12-17-2005, 06:26 AM
Trade Jax for Ron and this team will be OK.
I am still in the give Ron another chance camp. Kind of lonely here but both of us will survive. I hope.

I have always thought Jax was the (a) main problem with the Pacers and Ron was second. Ron gave his all on the court.
I saw the play where Steve Jackson would not pass to Saras, Saras smacked his hands together in disgust and moved on. I think if Jax had passed him the ball we would have scored a layup. If Jax had broken to the basket he would have gotten the return pass.

I say let Ron return and trade Jax.
Ron is my favourite NBA player and at first I was also hoping Donnie and Larry would sooth things over with him. Looking at what was happening on court, Jackson was the man who had to be traded in my opinion. But now I realized there's no way Ron will not be traded : the man, known as a famous line crosser, has crossed every line one man is able to cross by himself.

It will be weird and frustrating though seeing him play on another team firing up their defense (and offense) instead of ours.

For now, I can only hope Jackson will be traded along with Artest (see previous post).

hoopsforlife
12-17-2005, 06:38 AM
Guys don't You worry 'bout Saras&SJAX issue.

In Lithuania PG's are trained (since they are like 10 yrsold) like they can come up to the guy that has messed up the offencive flow and hit him into stomach. BECAUSE THE POINTGUARD IS THE NEXT MAN AFTER COACH WHEN YOU PLAY BBALL GAME. And if the PG is shouting to the man with the ball to pass it HE HAS TO DO IT. Coma.

If SJAXs is not listening to Saras or Tins or even AJ while he's at PG spot that guy has to go or to get beaten into his head untill he'll understand that. coma, again.

If Pacers (franchise+fans) see the potential in SJAX as a part of this team than he has to be benched after each time he acts like that. You should deal with hime as with PAVLOV'S DOG (http://evolution.massey.ac.nz/assign2/KD/finalpavlov.html) - no pass (when neaded) - bench. no pass - bench. I think that trick should work if You will practice it for like 5-10 games (a month). The reflex should come to him, that if he passes - he plays. No pass - bench. :))

I can BET, that Saras HAS TOLD EVERYTHING THAT YOU COULD WISH AND IMAGINE THAT YOU WOULD SAY TO SJAX in a locker room.

Saras is not a TRU WARIAR (or how some of ex-pacers call themselves). HE IS A TRUE GENERAL. coma.

I can asure You if he was pissed this time and Coach C. didn't put SJax in his place for his behaviour in next 2-3 games You will see Saras coming up to Sjax like his going to beat **** out of him. That's what LT pgs are about.

The adoptation period has gone - Saras will start acting like he is used to... or then he should be 1st who will have to be traded and Pacers could remain that "Hommies...boys in da hood... OGs" kinnda team, that will NEVER NEVER NEVER reach conference finals in next 10 years with this attitude.

Brawls, fights and this Mike Tyson like behaviour will be trademark of this franchise...

Don't want to upset You. Maybe my "slang" language isn't so deep and good, but I'm sure that You understand what I mean.

As I see Mr. Reggie was the last Intelegent starter of this team (Saras still has no full support from JO, Tins... wierd, but he had some from Ron). \

My guess is That SJAX is the key and the answer to all "THAT" bull**** thats cookin right now inside the team....

Js

Disclaimer: i hope i didn't get too offensive. The fact is that I want pacers to win as much as You all do. i feel that this won't change even when Saras will end his career down here.

EDIT: I feal that Ron realy has had some serious conflicts with SJAX and was not supported on that by JO and that's why his "...This would be better for the team..." didn't sound some mistified right now.

Thank you for that post. I totally have to agree with you and thats why I think Jax is the main problem and not Ron. If Saras is trained to lead then let him lead. Are you listening RICK...?

Hicks
12-17-2005, 10:18 AM
When it comes to Ron and Jackson, I become more convinced every day that it's not a case of "either/or", but "and".

Bball
12-17-2005, 11:59 AM
When it comes to Ron and Jackson, I become more convinced every day that it's not a case of "either/or", but "and".

I believe last night was the event that made me put Sjax into the 'he's part of the problem, not part of the solution' camp.

I saw nothing to make me believe Tinsley doesn't still belong in that camp.

And I am seeing a lot that tells me Carlisle doesn't have control (or respect) of this group of players. I don't have an answer there... Either he needs to get consistent and get control and management get his back, players not in or refusing to get with the program need traded, or a coach needs brought in who will get their attention (that could be an assistant coach but more likely a replacement for Carlisle). It's almost like Carlisle is a lame duck coach right now and the team is jockeying for position to fill the power vacuum. I don't know which of those is the answer. I'll say this, if Carlisle has tried to gain control he's been mighty unsuccessful.

And nobody much commented on this so maybe it was missed BUT what does this Bird quote (just prior to Artest's trade demand) mean or say:


Bird was aware of Artest's frustration with his offensive touches.

''I know exactly what's going on in his mind," Bird said. ''He's thinking to himself, 'I work my *** off on defense on every single play, every single day. I should be allowed to take two bad shots a game.' And you know what? I agree with him.

''It was the same thing with Robert Parish. He ran the court in transition all the time. Most other centers didn't, but he did -- every time. So, once in a while, when I was running the break, I'd wait and give him the ball, because he deserved it."
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16872

Our problems don't begin and end with Artest. IMHO, he's just a sideshow right now.

-Bball

Gamble
12-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Which brings us back to the departure of Brown. Charlie maybe can't
handle him and if thats the case then i would rather get rid of Jax than
Rick. Time will tell.

stipo
12-17-2005, 06:16 PM
Julius Sour,
The truth is - Cabbage gives you gas, but I get what you're saying. Maybe you could say "Cabbage makes you have strong gas" ...uhm, no, that doesn't work either...

Edit- both of these sayings work equally well with your pic of Runey!:laugh:

Roaming Gnome
12-17-2005, 06:54 PM
Well, I think Bball is on to something. I don't like advocating the firing of coaches around here, but I'm getting the feeling that Carlisle is the white elephant in the room as far as problems might go.

BlueNGold
12-17-2005, 07:21 PM
Well, I think Bball is on to something. I don't like advocating the firing of coaches around here, but I'm getting the feeling that Carlisle is the white elephant in the room as far as problems might go.
I think Rick's personality, along with a being a micromanager, may grate on some of the players. I have heard him speak many times and I am left with the following impression: He is short on personality and charisma, and I believe his delivery of criticism might be offensive to some of the players. Some people good at X's and O's are not necessarily good personnel people. I am pretty sure Rick is that type.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-17-2005, 11:19 PM
I saw Jack pass to Saras tonight! And Saras drained a 3.

ssmall
12-17-2005, 11:20 PM
I saw Jax siting on the floor tonight and not giving a dam about the "D"

Ultimate Frisbee
12-17-2005, 11:38 PM
I saw Jax siting on the floor tonight and not giving a dam about the "D"

:laugh:

I saw that as well...

hoopsforlife
12-18-2005, 07:52 AM
I saw Jack pass to Saras tonight! And Saras drained a 3.

I'm sure it was a mistake...

donny
12-18-2005, 09:23 AM
I think Jax is the main problem and not Ron. they both are big problems ;) however ron is a bigger problem right now.