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scar
12-16-2005, 07:09 PM
Mods, please delete this if it's been posted already.

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/5555221/detail.html


Artest Goes To Radio To Explain Himself, Slams Magic Johnson


POSTED: 3:55 pm EST December 16, 2005
UPDATED: 6:10 pm EST December 16, 2005

<!--startindex-->INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest took to the radio airwaves in an effort to defend his reasons for wanting to leave the team.
Speaking to WIBC radio Friday, Artest expressed hints of regret about how the trade talk started.
Artest spoke with WIBC's Vince Welch and admitted he might have handled the situation poorly, RTV6's Wil Hampton reported.
<HR><CENTER>Previous Images: Pacers React To Artest's Trade Demand (http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/5555221/detail.html#) <HR></CENTER>
"I kind of messed up. I kind of did it the wrong way," Artest said
Artest told the radio audience that he should have talked with coach Rick Carlisle before going public.
"I should have done that. It's important to have a relationship with the coach. Ever since coach got here, I never had a close relationship with him," Artest said.
Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh has tired of Artest's antics.
"I haven't heard any of the interviews, so I don't know what was said," Walsh said. "When I spoke with Ronnie, I said, 'Look, you've asked for a trade. I'm going to go forward with that.' It'd be in our interest if we both didn't say a whole lot about this."
Artest doubted there is any chance he could ever get back in good graces with the Pacers.
"I think I've dug myself in a hole and there's no grip. I can't get back up," Artest said.
Artest said some of the criticism he has received has been unfair. Former NBA great Magic Johnson said Artest doesn't deserve a second chance in the NBA.
"It's like saying, 'Magic, should your wife give you another chance?'" Artest said "He's saying Ron Artest should have no more second chances. What's worse -- me saying I want to be traded or you cheating on your wife?"

Hicks
12-16-2005, 07:11 PM
:-o

Naptown Seth
12-16-2005, 07:28 PM
Yes! Now that is awesome. Funny, I was thinking that before I clicked this thread. So many people questioning Ron's character, yet how many skeletons do these people have in their closet? Magic Johnson sits on plump booty with a big goofy smile on his face, puts on such a good guy image, yet this is a guy who admitted to cheating on his wife. And it wasn't just once, it was many, many times.
What's worse - stupidly coming out and asking for a trade, or cheating on your supposed life partner?

As the saying goes - let he who is without extramarital-induced HIV cast the first stone

Harmonica
12-16-2005, 07:35 PM
Yow. It just keeps getting uglier. Ron is right though. Those in glass houses...but still...

blanket
12-16-2005, 07:40 PM
"It's like saying, 'Magic, should your wife give you another chance?'" Artest said "He's saying Ron Artest should have no more second chances. What's worse -- me saying I want to be traded or you cheating on your wife?"

That's a pretty nice quip from Ron - I'm impressed!

Kegboy
12-16-2005, 08:18 PM
Wow. I didn't take the trade demand personally, but I take that personally. You don't knock a man's marriage. I hope we do trade him to LA, so Magic can kick his ***.

Reggie4Three
12-16-2005, 08:31 PM
Ron is right as far as Magic is concerned. Who is he to say someone doesn't deserve a second chance.

Kegboy
12-16-2005, 08:38 PM
Ron is right as far as Magic is concerned. Who is he to say someone doesn't deserve a second chance.

Do you really think this is only Ron's second chance? I haven't read through Jay's list recently, but I think it's more like his 158th.

Reggie4Three
12-16-2005, 08:43 PM
Do you really think this is only Ron's second chance? I haven't read through Jay's list recently, but I think it's more like his 158th.

Whatever "chance" you want to make this, the point remains the same. Who is Magic Johnson to determine that Ron should be out of the NBA.

Fool
12-16-2005, 09:05 PM
Magic Johnson = proven NBA legend who is well respected.

Cant say the same for Artest


Oh, and Magic gets paid to offer his opinion. He never brought Ron's family into it. BUt Ron just felt the need to attack the mans family....

While I don't contend that the remark was warranted, Magic does open himself up to critical comments by the very fact that he gets paid to offer his opinion on others. If Artest would have limited his response to Magic's HIV and its effect on his team/play I think he wouldn't be out of place (though I'm not all that firm on this conclusion).

Ron clearly got personal which wasn't called for.

Arcadian
12-16-2005, 09:45 PM
What was Magic's exact quote. I heard him say that Ron can't mess up again or he will be out of the NBA. But I didn't hear him sat he doesn't deserve a second chance.

Jermaniac
12-16-2005, 09:46 PM
He is telling the truth

sweabs
12-16-2005, 09:47 PM
Classy.

Not that I would have expected Ron to be the bigger man.

Bball
12-16-2005, 09:49 PM
What was Magic's exact quote. I heard him say that Ron can't mess up again or he will be out of the NBA. But I didn't hear him sat he doesn't deserve a second chance.

Is it this?

--
Magic on Ron Artest’s request to be traded from Indiana: “This is the last incident that (Ron Artest) can have, and I want him to understand that. Anything follows this and he won’t get a contract in the NBA. He cannot do anything after this if he gets his trade. T hat’s it, because anything after this two-year contract is up, trust me, he won’t be in the NBA.”



Barkley on whether or not trading for Ron Artest is worth taking the risk: “You can’t put (Ron Artest) on a young team because he’s going to corrupt your young guys…(Teams should only trade for him) if there’s a slight chance that he can put you over the hump, so there’s about five teams that should be trying to get him.”

Smith: “You can’t depend on him to build your team around, so (teams that need a lot of help) don’t have an opportunity. It’s got to be a team who says we’re trying to win (a championship), and we’re trying to win it now. We need Ron.”

Barkley: “I’d send him to Vancouver if I was the GM.”

pizza guy
12-16-2005, 09:50 PM
Wow. Artest speaks of digging a hole with the Pacers, now he's working on the NBA as a whole. Magic, regardless of his issues, is a well respected guy in the league, not to mention a legend on the court. I don't have a problem with using basketball topics in wars-of-words, but, that, IMO, is uncalled for. It may be true, but it does not belong in a basketball conversation.

SoupIsGood
12-16-2005, 09:51 PM
Yeeahhh..... bye Ron. That's just stupid.

Kegboy
12-16-2005, 09:56 PM
Who is Magic Johnson to determine that Ron should be out of the NBA.

Only a vice-president and co-owner of one of the most respected teams in the league.

Arcadian
12-16-2005, 10:02 PM
Is it this?

--
Magic on Ron Artest’s request to be traded from Indiana: “This is the last incident that (Ron Artest) can have, and I want him to understand that. Anything follows this and he won’t get a contract in the NBA. He cannot do anything after this if he gets his trade. T hat’s it, because anything after this two-year contract is up, trust me, he won’t be in the NBA.”


That is what I heard Magic say. If this is what Ron is responding to Ron is in the wrong.

Also it is nice to see Ron raise his trade value by going after a co-owner of a team interested in him.

Tim
12-16-2005, 10:10 PM
He brought someone's personal life into his professional screw up. At this point expiring contracts are starting to look good.

able
12-16-2005, 10:14 PM
One talks away his career, the other screwed away his career.
If you have egg on your face you should stay out of the sun.

I care neither way.

beast23
12-16-2005, 10:15 PM
In his interview, Magic went a little further than what is paraphrased above. He also stated that if he were a GM, he wouldn't gamble on Artest. I think that statement is just another way of saying that "I wouldn't give him another chance" but probably doesn't go as far as saying that he "doesn't deserve another chance."

But if the statements above are the sum total of what Artest said in the interview, then I don't see anything wrong at all with what he said. And, I can imagine that the interviewer paraphrased what Magic said and asked Artest is if he had anything to say about it.

But come on, let's fess up. Artest is a man playing a game for a living, and made a very serious mistake in the manner in which he went about seeking a trade. Had he gone about it in an appropriate manner, the end result would have been the same... he still would have been traded.

And, with all of the attention drawn to the fact that he is up for sale, it may even have enabled the process to go a little quicker than normal. The only consequence is that the Pacers may not get quite as much for him.

But, at the end of the day Artest's "crime" was that he shot off his mouth and in so doing, hurt a lot of people's feelings.

Magic, on the other hand, calls out Ron for what he did, stating that he personally would not give Ron another chance.

In my opiniion, Magic is not only a cheater, he's a hypocrite. What the hell? What's fair for him is not fair for Artest?

I've been an Artest fan since the was first acquired from the Bulls. But no more. I'm done with him. But Magic? After his recent words, even though his charming personality makes him difficult to dislike, well... he just makes my blood boil.

denyfizle
12-16-2005, 10:20 PM
Yow. It just keeps getting uglier. Ron is right though. Those in glass houses...but still...


Ron's right? Well Magic was referrin to his antics and Ron should've have known to stop causin so much BS. Magic was critical and besides Magic said if Ron messes up one more time after he gets traded then he doesn't get another contract. Actually Ron has had tons of chances and Magic saying that isn't even a surprise. Seriously Artest is an idiot how can he be right? He should stop trying to be a philospher and just act right if he doesn't want anybody criticizing him. He's just totally disrespectful and an absolute IDIOT to even bring up Magic's wife. Magic is a paid analyst now, he just gave his opinion. Ron on the other hand is just an attention whore looking for an open mic and an audience.

Kstat
12-16-2005, 10:27 PM
Well, any and all chances of Ron going to LA just died a horrible death....

BillS
12-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Work issues ... personal issues.

Magic ended up out of the league because of the HIV, so no one can say he didn't pay for what happened to his career based on his personal life.

Ron didn't attack that, he attacked only the personal life. Kind of the equivalent of someone saying Ron doesn't deserve to be in the NBA because he got involved in domestic violence situation.

WTF does that have to do with the basketball court?

Someone criticizes you for your work behavior, don't go after his personal life.

No class at all.

I'm beginning to feel used for defending this guy for so long.

pacerwaala
12-16-2005, 11:21 PM
Well, any and all chances of Ron going to LA just died a horrible death....


I think Magic is more of a figurehead part owner (2% or whatever) with the Lakers. I don't think he has that much clout to veto any deal for Artest to the Lakers. I could be wrong, I am just surmising.

That comment that Ron made is true and funny. What Ron did is nothing compared to one repeatedly cheating on your wife.

Kstat
12-16-2005, 11:23 PM
You're right and yet wrong.

Magic is the face of the LA Lakers. You insult him, you insult the franchise, as well as their fan base.

Harmonica
12-16-2005, 11:38 PM
Ron's right? Well Magic was referrin to his antics and Ron should've have known to stop causin so much BS. Magic was critical and besides Magic said if Ron messes up one more time after he gets traded then he doesn't get another contract. Actually Ron has had tons of chances and Magic saying that isn't even a surprise. Seriously Artest is an idiot how can he be right? He should stop trying to be a philospher and just act right if he doesn't want anybody criticizing him. He's just totally disrespectful and an absolute IDIOT to even bring up Magic's wife. Magic is a paid analyst now, he just gave his opinion. Ron on the other hand is just an attention whore looking for an open mic and an audience.

Hey listen, if you've been here for any length of time, you know that I'm not one to defend Ron. That said, I stand by what I said: Those in glass houses... Who is Magic to indict anyone because of their destructive behavior? If you really want to get into the dark side of the NBA and sports in general, you have only to examine Magic's behavior while he was an NBA player.

Peck
12-17-2005, 12:06 AM
Um, guys is my memory that bad???

I, for some reason, remember that Magic got Married to Cookie after he announced he had H.I.V. or am I totally off base with that?

Also let's not get into cheating spouses with Ron, because he has no rights to throw stones either.

So, IMO, that makes him a two time loser in this debate.

Not only did he F up in his job, but Ron has had a little extra on the side as well.

As far as I know Magic was never ever ever close to being booted from the NBA let alone the Lakers.

BTW, does anybody really believe that Magic was any worse than any other baller back in the day with the women?

Kegboy
12-17-2005, 12:10 AM
Um, guys is my memory that bad???

I, for some reason, remember that Magic got Married to Cookie after he announced he had H.I.V. or am I totally off base with that?

No, he was married, and she was pregnant. He said the worst part was waiting for the results on the child.


BTW, does anybody really believe that Magic was any worse than any other baller back in the day with the women?

Well, there was A.C. Green. :blush:

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 12:11 AM
Um, guys is my memory that bad???

I, for some reason, remember that Magic got Married to Cookie after he announced he had H.I.V. or am I totally off base with that?

Also let's not get into cheating spouses with Ron, because he has no rights to throw stones either.

So, IMO, that makes him a two time loser in this debate.

Not only did he F up in his job, but Ron has had a little extra on the side as well.

As far as I know Magic was never ever ever close to being booted from the NBA let alone the Lakers.

BTW, does anybody really believe that Magic was any worse than any other baller back in the day with the women?

You know for certain that Ron has cheated on his wife? And all ballers were unfaithful to their partners "back in the day?" Quite some generalizations there, Peck.

Kegboy
12-17-2005, 12:13 AM
That comment that Ron made is true and funny. What Ron did is nothing compared to one repeatedly cheating on your wife.

As Peck said, Ron certainly shouldn't be criticizing how one treats the women in his life.

Peck
12-17-2005, 12:22 AM
You know for certain that Ron has cheated on his wife? And all ballers were unfaithful to their partners "back in the day?" Quite some generalizations there, Peck.

To answer your first question. Yes.

To respond to your second statement, no you are correct I don't know about all of the ballers.

I should have said "some of the ballers" not all.

Bball
12-17-2005, 12:24 AM
Peck,
I know they were together when he announced his HIV issue but I don't know if they were yet married. I'm trying to find the info just to confirm it one way or the other.

Meanwhile... I did find this (which seems somehow relative to the thread):


Johnson and the Lakers rebounded in 1981-82, winning their division and defeating the 76ers in another six-game NBA Finals in which Johnson repeated as MVP. The season also had its share of ugliness. Early on, Westhead wanted to restructure the offense in a way that Johnson believed would have reduced his role. In a widely reported incident, Johnson exploded in the lockerroom after a game in Utah. "I can't play here anymore. I want to leave. I want to be traded," he was quoted as saying. Reporters waited for the signal that Johnson was joking. It didn't come.

Westhead was fired the next day and replaced with assistant coach Pat Riley. At Riley's first home game, fans at the Forum booed Johnson during introductions. In Seattle he was jeered whenever he touched the ball. He paid the price in the All-Star balloting and was not selected as a starter for the only time in his career other than his injury season. It took Johnson's stellar playoff performance to silence the hecklers.
http://www.nba.com/history/players/johnsonm_bio.html

Peck
12-17-2005, 12:24 AM
No, he was married, and she was pregnant. He said the worst part was waiting for the results on the child.



Well, there was A.C. Green. :blush:


Yes, you are correct about the pregnancy.

But I guess I was just under the impression that they either weren't married that long or something.

I'm just remembering this stuff off of the top of my head so I could be totally wrong here.

I'm not saying Magic was a saint, but to compare one to the other is just beyond my ability to comprehend.

Bball
12-17-2005, 12:29 AM
Johnson was so successful that he became really famous. He played on the Los Angeles Lakers and everywhere they went there were fans waiting for his autograph. Women found Johnson attractive and he was never at a loss for a female companion. In 1991, Johnson married his longtime girlfriend, Cookie. Only weeks later he found out he was HIV positive. So Johnson did one of the hardest things he says he has ever done—he told Cookie. He then decided that he wanted to tell the world. “There was never any question that I would go public,” he said. “I’ve always lived straight up and faced up to whatever happens.” That year Johnson told the world and retired from basketball. He started to speak out about HIV/AIDS and educate youth about the disease. He created the Magic Johnson Foundation so he could raise money to fund AIDS research, care and education. Johnson’s popularity resulted in his being voted as a starter in the 1992 All-Star Game and, later, chosen for the 1992 U.S. Olympic Basketball Team.

http://www.livepositive.ca/positive-heroes-magic.asp

Kegboy
12-17-2005, 12:31 AM
I'm not saying Magic was a saint, but to compare one to the other is just beyond my ability to comprehend.
Oh, I'm most definitely with you there. And I think you're right, that they'd been together for a while, but had not been married long.

Here's an article: http://www.aegis.com/news/lt/2001/LT011102.html



The former Earleatha Kelly, Cookie had been with Johnson since college. She had endured the Showtime years, when the line of women willing to have sex with Johnson rivaled the line of autograph seekers. When Johnson told her, he said he would understand if she left him.

He says she slapped him for making that suggestion. "We just cried and held each other. The greatest thing that ever happened to me was that she stayed. I think that's why I'm alive today."

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 12:38 AM
Yes, you are correct about the pregnancy.

But I guess I was just under the impression that they either weren't married that long or something.

I'm just remembering this stuff off of the top of my head so I could be totally wrong here.

I'm not saying Magic was a saint, but to compare one to the other is just beyond my ability to comprehend.

So you place Magic over Ron because the NBA has annointed him? Get outta here. Magic is the very personification of the debauchery that goes on in the NBA. From his own admission, the guy would send his posse out to fetch him "the rainbow" (a white woman, a black woman and an Asian woman). I'm sorry, but the guy should just keep his mouth shut when it comes to judging others. Ron's actions are contemptable, no doubt, but Magic certainly didn't take his wife's or his baby's health into consideration when he was "lining them up."

SamBear
12-17-2005, 12:49 AM
Wow Ron needs to turn off the tv...

Arcadian
12-17-2005, 12:49 AM
I'm still not sure where Magic is judging Ron Artest. He just said that he wouldn't take Ron and that he is close to ending his NBA career. Neither statements are that shocking or mean spirited.

But since I have never cheated on anyone is my opinion more informed when I say I wouldn't take Ron on my team?

Kegboy
12-17-2005, 12:51 AM
So you place Magic over Ron because the NBA has annointed him?

Magic was never charged with making threats to the mother of his child.

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 12:54 AM
Magic was never charged with making threats to the mother of his child.

I guess if you don't consider passing HIV onto your partner and unborn child a threat, okay.

cracktower
12-17-2005, 12:55 AM
"Well, there was A.C. Green. :blush:"

:laugh::applaud: :applaud: :-o

A.C Green the real 40 year old virgin.

:blush: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :blush:

The dude said "he was saving it till he got married"

We should all learn from him.

A.C you are the man:worship: :worship: :worship: <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

denyfizle
12-17-2005, 12:59 AM
Hey listen, if you've been here for any length of time, you know that I'm not one to defend Ron. That said, I stand by what I said: Those in glass houses... Who is Magic to indict anyone because of their destructive behavior? If you really want to get into the dark side of the NBA and sports in general, you have only to examine Magic's behavior while he was an NBA player.


nah dude you listen. Ron's cooments were out of line while Magic's was relevant to the subject at hand. Ron got criticized because of his actions that have been currently the talk of basketball country and Magic is a paid analyst and what was wrong with what he said? he said that one more incident from Ron after he gets traded then he doesn't get another contract. SERIOUSLY Ron is lucky to be still in the league after all the BS he's done. had he not had his talent trust me he'd be playing in a third world country now. and whatever grudge or history or whatever snot you have on Magic does not interest me. Ron was wrong so for you to say he's right makes me think you're a knucklehead yourself :)

SycamoreKen
12-17-2005, 01:23 AM
Ron's an idiot. As for Magic, his behavior did hurt his team because he probably would have played 2 to 3 more years had he not had to bow out because of the AIDS scare.

Peck
12-17-2005, 01:26 AM
So you place Magic over Ron because the NBA has annointed him? Get outta here. Magic is the very personification of the debauchery that goes on in the NBA. From his own admission, the guy would send his posse out to fetch him "the rainbow" (a white woman, a black woman and an Asian woman). I'm sorry, but the guy should just keep his mouth shut when it comes to judging others. Ron's actions are contemptable, no doubt, but Magic certainly didn't take his wife's or his baby's health into consideration when he was "lining them up."


I have no idea why we are even debating this.

What does Ron's actions in basketball world have anything to do with Magic Johnsons actions in the real world.

If you don't lke that Magic works at TNT ok, but I just can't even see why we are comparing the two.

If Magic would have complained about Ron's mental stability & not taking his meds. then ok, but Ervin was talking about Ron's job. Which is what he is being paid to do.

Do you have a problem with what Barkley saying anything about Ron? If not, why not? Chuck has had his fair share of off court problems.

Again, I'm not sure why we are even talking about this.

Here let's change the subject matter to something we both can actaully understand.

I hear that the Pacers want to send Ron to Sactown for Brad.:-p

beast23
12-17-2005, 01:29 AM
I think that most of you guys are totally missing the point. Everyone seems to think that in one instance we are talking about a man's career and in the other instance, we are talking about a man's personal life.

Bull*****!!!

If you tell me that you will not take a chance on me, you aren't saying a word about my career.

You are talking about my character, clear and simple.

Magic Johnson makes a statement about a man's character, the back, the man (Artest) responds back, and you somehow think the two are not the same? I suppose the only thing Artest would be guilty of is not putting himself above it all and simply "turning the other cheek".

Now I don't know about you guys, but the most important things to me are the health/safety of my family and our reputations.

In the workplace, the only thing of importance that I take to work and come home with every day is my reputation. If you attack that, then it forces me to defend it.

In Ron's case, the mistake he made really couldn't be defended. And he said as much in his interview. So, human nature being what it is, he did what he thought was the next best thing. He reduced the power of the attack on his character by pointing out the hypocrisy of the one who made the statement.

Bottom line is that when you attack the character of someone else, then by default your own character becomes fair game to the one you attacked.

In this regard, I don't think Artest is any different than any of us.

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 01:38 AM
I think that most of you guys are totally missing the point. Everyone seems to think that in one instance we are talking about a man's career and in the other instance, we are talking about a man's personal life.

Bull*****!!!

If you tell me that you will not take a chance on me, you aren't saying a word about my career.

You are talking about my character, clear and simple.

Magic Johnson makes a statement about a man's character, the back, the man (Artest) responds back, and you somehow think the two are not the same? I suppose the only thing Artest would be guilty of is not putting himself above it all and simply "turning the other cheek".

Now I don't know about you guys, but the most important things to me are the health/safety of my family and our reputations.

In the workplace, the only thing of importance that I take to work and come home with every day is my reputation. If you attack that, then it forces me to defend it.

In Ron's case, the mistake he made really couldn't be defended. And he said as much in his interview. So, human nature being what it is, he did what he thought was the next best thing. He reduced the power of the attack on his character by pointing out the hypocrisy of the one who made the statement.

Bottom line is that when you attack the character of someone else, then by default your own character becomes fair game to the one you attacked.
Amen.


In this regard, I don't think Artest is any different than any of us.
Except for this. ;)

Fool
12-17-2005, 01:39 AM
So if your boss ever fires you then a perfectly valid reply would be to say that his wife should divorce him because he's cheated on her? After all, your boss has just said that you are unfit to work for him, and you have to defend your reputation.

Maybe Ron should challenge MJ to a duel, you know to protect his honor.

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 01:44 AM
So if your boss ever fires you then a perfectly valid reply would be to say that his wife should divorce him because he's cheated on her? After all, your boss has just said that you are unfit to work for him, and you have to defend your reputation.

Magic is Ron's boss?

Peck
12-17-2005, 01:56 AM
Maybe Ron should challenge MJ to a duel, you know to protect his honor.


It would probably look something like this.

http://www.sandmtnshootersclub.com/sambugs.jpg

beast23
12-17-2005, 02:03 AM
Fool, if your boss fires you, it is almost always after you have had multiple discussions with him/her regarding a shortcoming in your performance or the quality of your work.

During those earlier discussions you will amost always be given the opportunity to be heard. And there is ample opportunity to discuss the shortcomings of your boss and how an improvement in his shortcomings will help you to improve yourself in your own problem areas.

As one who has both fired others, and has been fired himself, you could say I've been on both ends of the stick. Being fired very rarely has anything whatsoever to do with a knock on one's character. Firing (as opposed to being a victim of a cutback) almost always is about a problem with production or quality of work.

So stating that I simply don't have enough knowledge or prior training to "get the job done" is in no way equivalent to a character attack.

Vicious Tyrant
12-17-2005, 07:34 AM
I think that most of you guys are totally missing the point. Everyone seems to think that in one instance we are talking about a man's career and in the other instance, we are talking about a man's personal life.

Bull*****!!!

If you tell me that you will not take a chance on me, you aren't saying a word about my career.

You are talking about my character, clear and simple.
Agreed. Magic has chosen a job that has him speaking his opinion. If he can't handle tough responses to his opinion, that's on him. I have no problem with Ron saying this.

p.s. I went to a couple Lakers message boards and the opinion seems pretty split -those who feel Ron insulted the whole organization and those who think Magic deserved it.

DisplacedKnick
12-17-2005, 08:02 AM
Pretty low by Ron. Magic makes a legit comment in his role as a commentator and Ron decides to drag his personal life into this?

Oldest trick in the book - instead of actually dealing with your own problems, deflect the criticism by talking about something totally unrelated - and if it somehow involves sex, drug addiction, or any other serious character defect, all the better.

Carl Rove would be proud.

Chauncey
12-17-2005, 08:30 AM
Pretty low by Ron. Magic makes a legit comment in his role as a commentator and Ron decides to drag his personal life into this?

Oldest trick in the book - instead of actually dealing with your own problems, deflect the criticism by talking about something totally unrelated - and if it somehow involves sex, drug addiction, or any other serious character defect, all the better.

Carl Rove would be proud.

Well said.

Also, Kstat mentioned this, but Artest is now persona non grata in LA. The Pacers just lost some leverage with the rest of the league. Not to mention the domino effect..just take a look around the league at how many of Magic's close friends are in positions of power with different teams.

When it comes down to it, this is just another case of Ron screwing over the Pacers. Couldn't they somehow get a retraining order to prevent him from making public comment?

Kestas
12-17-2005, 09:09 AM
"It's like saying, 'Magic, should your wife give you another chance?'" Artest said "He's saying Ron Artest should have no more second chances. What's worse -- me saying I want to be traded or you cheating on your wife?"

redneck. you can hardly come up with a dumber comparison. I mean, wasn't Magic cheating before he got infected? and it's none of Artest's business anyways.

DisplacedKnick
12-17-2005, 09:43 AM
When it comes down to it, this is just another case of Ron screwing over the Pacers. Couldn't they somehow get a retraining order to prevent him from making public comment?


Even if they could, he wouldn't obey it.

From the Pacers and Artest's own good, the best thing Ron could do would be to check in the hospital for elective surgery so they could cut out his tongue.

For everyone else though, that would really detract from the entertainment value.

Kegboy
12-17-2005, 10:08 AM
I guess if you don't consider passing HIV onto your partner and unborn child a threat, okay.

I'm not saying what Magic did was alright. He had a pretty major character flaw, and I'd say he paid for it dearly.

That said, don't you think Cookie knew he was a cad? Even if you want to believe she didn't, she still chose to stay with him. If you think she shouldn't have, that's fine, that's your opinion. Should she be criticized for it? I don't know, it's not like he was beating her or anything.

If you want to say Magic was criminally negligent for sleeping around, that's your opinion. Pretty damning statement, considering how many people in society sleep around, let alone pro athletes. Whether they actually contracted an STD is immaterial, because they all take the chance.

Even if you take as hardline a position as possible with Magic's HIV and his getting Westhead fired, I don't see how it can be compared with all the **** Ron's done.

Harmonica
12-17-2005, 10:47 AM
That said, don't you think Cookie knew he was a cad? Even if you want to believe she didn't, she still chose to stay with him. If you think she shouldn't have, that's fine, that's your opinion. Should she be criticized for it? I don't know, it's not like he was beating her or anything.
Yes, like Hilary Clinton, I believe she knew her husband was a dog. However, I would imagine that the last person Magic slept with wasn't the one who transmitted the virus to him. So you can probably safely conclude that he passed it along to others, who passed it along to others, and so on and so forth. Because of his celebrity and lack of self-control, he had the opportunity to hurt a great number of innocent (and not-so-innocent) people.

That said, no one is criticizing Cookie. Where did that come from? Now, I don't know what your beliefs are, or how you were raised, but a lot of people consider cheating on their partner a form of abuse. Certainly Chelsea suffered and her family suffered because of Clinton's philandering. I'm sure Magic's philandering has left some emotional scars on his family as well.


If you want to say Magic was criminally negligent for sleeping around, that's your opinion. Pretty damning statement, considering how many people in society sleep around, let alone pro athletes. Whether they actually contracted an STD is immaterial, because they all take the chance.

Even if you take as hardline a position as possible with Magic's HIV and his getting Westhead fired, I don't see how it can be compared with all the **** Ron's done.
I'm not suggesting Magic was criminally negligent. Again, where did that come from? Secondly, you're gathering opinions of mostly men here. Ask any woman whose deeds were worse: Ron's basketball antics or Magic's grotesque promiscuity? You'll get an entirely different picture altogether.

Let me be clear on one thing: Ron should have kept his mouth shut; that would have been the mature and wise thing to do. But the remark itself, whether you want to admit it or not, is pretty truthful. And as Vicious Tyrant said, "Magic has chosen a job that has him speaking his opinion. If he can't handle tough responses to his opinion, that's on him."

The problem I have with Ron's remarks are that they continue to hurt the organization.

Hicks
12-17-2005, 10:53 AM
So if your boss ever fires you then a perfectly valid reply would be to say that his wife should divorce him because he's cheated on her? After all, your boss has just said that you are unfit to work for him, and you have to defend your reputation.

Maybe Ron should challenge MJ to a duel, you know to protect his honor.

I agree with you. We're talking about the character of both, but with Ron it's about what he's done as a basketball player, with Magic Ron is hitting his home life, not what he did in the NBA.

denyfizle
12-17-2005, 11:58 AM
I think that most of you guys are totally missing the point. Everyone seems to think that in one instance we are talking about a man's career and in the other instance, we are talking about a man's personal life.

Bull*****!!!

If you tell me that you will not take a chance on me, you aren't saying a word about my career.

You are talking about my character, clear and simple.

Magic Johnson makes a statement about a man's character, the back, the man (Artest) responds back, and you somehow think the two are not the same? I suppose the only thing Artest would be guilty of is not putting himself above it all and simply "turning the other cheek".

Now I don't know about you guys, but the most important things to me are the health/safety of my family and our reputations.

In the workplace, the only thing of importance that I take to work and come home with every day is my reputation. If you attack that, then it forces me to defend it.

In Ron's case, the mistake he made really couldn't be defended. And he said as much in his interview. So, human nature being what it is, he did what he thought was the next best thing. He reduced the power of the attack on his character by pointing out the hypocrisy of the one who made the statement.

Bottom line is that when you attack the character of someone else, then by default your own character becomes fair game to the one you attacked.

In this regard, I don't think Artest is any different than any of us.

Did you listen to Magic's statement? He said if Ron did ONE more crazy thing after he gets traded then he's out. He actually said that this was Ron's last chance to act properly. But then again you can't teach an old dog new tricks. If youre fine with how Ron responded to Magic's statement then so be it, but how can you say Magic is a hypocrite? Because he obtained AIDS he can't call out a player for acting unprofessionally? This is the NBA ang not the ghetto. Act accordingly or be bashed by the media and fined. And with how Ron reacted I just think he just doesn't and will never know any better. Some people just don't understand the concept of diplomacy, professionalism, respect and taking responsibility for you actions. He said he knew he dug himself a hole and after everything he's done, is it really SHOCKING for people to say that when he gets traded that he should be in his best behaviour? If Ron was offended with that and did not get the essence of what Magic said that he really has to straighten up, then he's really just an immature stupid kid who doesn't even know how to respect rules and has too much pride too really look within himself to correct his crap and rather dig crap from another than to just reform.

Pacesetter
12-17-2005, 12:37 PM
Sometimes you gotta know when to lean on the shovel!

If you're out there Ron, somewhere in internet land, reading these words, stop and check yourself, you are dangerously close to wrecking yourself. It'd be like humpty dumpty bro. They ain't gonna put ya back together when you fall. Let it go and concentrate on what you can and don't worry about the damage behind you. Mistakes happen. Three years from now, and nobody will remember this crap (well some will but so what). Move on and pick up the pieces and don't dig deeper.

Just my two cents worth. I really don't want to see Ron throw the talent he has away, and if he screws with Magic and Sir Charles, he's fooling with the NBA's golden children and he'll pay the price in some way shape or form.

Arcadian
12-17-2005, 02:08 PM
The biggest question to me isn't that Ron said something about Magic. It is why is he still talking? Is "no comment" really that hard to say? Does opinion mean that much to Ron that he feels he has to respond? Just more signs of a mentally weak and emotionally immature person to me.

Romsey31
12-18-2005, 02:19 AM
Oh, I'm most definitely with you there. And I think you're right, that they'd been together for a while, but had not been married long.

Here's an article: http://www.aegis.com/news/lt/2001/LT011102.html
Lets see, a millionare gives you aids....what do you do leave him and go to who?? She had ever right to slap him.

Naptown Seth
12-18-2005, 12:36 PM
There's nothing wrong with what Ron said. Magic attacked his chracter, so he defended himself by making a solid point - people deserve second chances. What Magic did was far worse than anything Ron ever did. He violated someone very close to him, yet he was forgiven. Ron too should be forgiven. Yet there's plenty of fans out there who never will forgive him no matter what he says or does, and thats one of the main reasons he wants to leave Indiana.

Kstat
12-18-2005, 12:36 PM
Lets see, a millionare gives you aids....what do you do leave him and go to who?? She had ever right to slap him.

Cookie doesn't have AIDS, Einstien. Neither does Magic, for that matter.

HIV isn't AIDS. It can lead to AIDS, but it is not AIDS.

Cookie also never got infected.

Naptown Seth
12-18-2005, 12:39 PM
Lets see, a millionare gives you aids....what do you do leave him and go to who?? She had ever right to slap him.
Magic never had full blown AIDS, only the HIV virus. If he had full blown AIDS he would've been dead long ago.

Naptown Seth
12-18-2005, 12:47 PM
Cookie doesn't have AIDS, Einstien. Neither does Magic, for that matter.

HIV isn't AIDS. It can lead to AIDS, but it is not AIDS.

Cookie also never got infected.
#1, no need for the trolling "Einstein" remark.
#2, no she doesnt have AIDS nor the HIV virus, but thats not the point. The point is, she could've easily caught it. Magic endangered not only his own life, but his fiances life, and most importantly, his unborn childs life. And he did it while violating is future wife's trust, and their relationship as a whole.
That makes him a lowlife ******* in my mind. But nah, noway Magic could be a bad guy. He was a great basketball player, a tv celebrity. And did i mention he smiles a lot? Yeah, no way someone who smiles that much could be a bad person...

heywoode
12-18-2005, 01:04 PM
There's nothing wrong with what Ron said. Magic attacked his chracter, so he defended himself by making a solid point - people deserve second chances. What Magic did was far worse than anything Ron ever did. He violated someone very close to him, yet he was forgiven. Ron too should be forgiven. Yet there's plenty of fans out there who never will forgive him no matter what he says or does, and thats one of the main reasons he wants to leave Indiana.


Ron was a dick and took the conversation personal, when it was about basketball and actions by Ron that affected basketball. He was wrong, YET AGAIN.

Magic is no angel, I have no problem saying that. I never really liked him all that well, but I respect what he did on the basketball court and some of the decisions he has made in the business world.

Ron HAS been forgiven. Countless times. He will not and should not be forgiven now. Sooner or later, you have to say enough is enough. How many more chances are you willing to give him? What does he have to do to NOT get another chance with you, burn down Conseco and run over Boomer on the flight from the crime scene?

And lastly, from what I'm hearing, Ron doesn't want to leave Indy now. If you can chalk up all the talk the last week about wanting out as 'he didn't really mean it, or he was upset' how can you trust what he is saying now? Shouldn't it even be considered that he could be figuring out what a dumbass he has been this last week? Maybe he is figuring out that it really IS a lot better here than virtually anywhere else in the NBA for him? With Ron it is always speak first (or ACT first) and figure out what he should have done later, after everyone is scratching their heads......

Kstat
12-18-2005, 01:07 PM
For the record, Magic has been one of the biggest developers of urban ghettos in US history. He's built countless movie theatres in areas people said was too crime-ridden and poor to support them.

As a buisnessman, Magic's done an incredible amount for poor people in America.

Magic obviously wasn't a saint, but he's done a lot more good than bad.

Naptown Seth
12-18-2005, 01:08 PM
Ok, I came across too harsh in that last post.

I don't know Magic personally, obviously. I don't know how he is behind the scenes. I don't know what he thinks, what he feels etc. But the point is, neither do any of you. Yet many of you act like Magic is a great guy simply because he was a great basketball player and he seems nice on TV, which is foolish.
Magic made a big mistake, a mistake that could've cost many people their lives - his own, his wifes, his unborn childs, and who knows how many other groupies he slept with before discovering he was HIV positive. Yet through all of that, he was forgiven by his wife, and his fans. Yet Ron Artest throws a camera, flips off crowd, and punches out a fan who throws a full cup of beer in his face, and he's vilified for it.

Do you all honestly not see the extreme hypocrisy in that?

And yeah, it's Magic Johnson's right as an analysist to speak his opinion, however it's also Ron's right as a human being to defend himself.

Stop being overly P.C. hypocrits.

Kstat
12-18-2005, 01:11 PM
Now to put things in a basketball perspective (and ONLY a basketball perspective), there is no comparison at all. Magic was the consummate teamate, and Ron has been the consummate BAD teamate.

heywoode
12-18-2005, 01:16 PM
Yet Ron Artest throws a camera, flips off crowd, and punches out a fan who throws a full cup of beer in his face, and he's vilified for it.

He has done a whole lot more than that. Don't trivialize the consequences of those and many other mistakes.




Do you all honestly not see the extreme hypocrisy in that?

No, I don't.




Stop being overly P.C. hypocrits.

Now who is name-calling? Keep it civilized or stop posting. People don't agree with you, and I for one, never will on this issue.

It escapes me how someone can continually defend someone as detrimental to himself, his family, his team, and the NBA as Ron has been for the last few years.

Moses
12-18-2005, 05:37 PM
I can't say I don't entirely disagree with what Ron said about Magic.

It's the truth and he was defending himself. Not that Ron cares anymore. Anyone who thinks he wont get a contract with any team is a moron because Ron has the potential to be the best all around player in the NBA if he ever grew up..and I know a ton of lowly teams that would be willing to gamble on that potential.

I see him going to Portland or the likes so he can join Patterson and they can make the highlights together for saying stupid things. Then Portland would also sign Spree.

sweabs
12-18-2005, 05:38 PM
I can't say I don't entirely disagree with what Ron said about Magic.

It's the truth and he was defending himself. Not that Ron cares anymore. Anyone who thinks he wont get a contract with any team is a moron because Ron has the potential to be the best all around player in the NBA if he ever grew up..and I know a ton of lowly teams that would be willing to gamble on that potential.

I see him going to Portland or the likes so he can join Patterson and they can make the highlights together for saying stupid things. Then Portland would also sign Spree.

And if Ron Burgundy says it...:D

Moses
12-18-2005, 05:39 PM
And if Ron Burgundy says it...:D
It's the truth!!

Shade
12-18-2005, 07:11 PM
I have to admit, that's a hell of a burn. Not necessarily in good taste, but quite a burn nonetheless. So much for Ron to the Lakers, eh?