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Slick Pinkham
12-15-2005, 02:27 PM
sorry if already posted-- didn't see it

I hate that last line

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/051215

By Skip Bayless
Page 2


That tremor you just felt wasn't "King Kong" opening. It was the NBA's balance of power shifting.


Two charades just ended, in Indiana and Miami. Ron Artest, going. Pat Riley, returning. Both developments were inevitable, and have been in the works for weeks.


But only one makes sense: Riley's.


That's because Artest blew the whistle on Pacers general manager Larry Bird, while ex-Heat coach Stan Van Gundy basically swallowed his whistle when forced out by Riley.


I'll explain.



Pat Riley makes the Heat better -- there's just no way around that.
But here's the upshot: The Heat suddenly get a real coach -- one of the NBA's top five. And some lucky team gets to steal a top-10 player: Artest, who could turn any of six Western Conference teams into a championship contender.


The San Antonio Spurs -- until this week easily the NBA's best team -- now have to worry about facing Artest's team in the Western Conference playoffs and Riley's in the NBA Finals. Yet both these moves have been underestimated because of two media-driven stereotypes: Stan Van Gundy, "good guy." Ron Artest, "bad guy."


Look deeper.


When Riley stepped down -- or up -- to become Heat GM, he chose a career assistant to replace him because: (1) He didn't want a proven coach to make him look even worse by having far more success, and (2) he wanted a coach he could control.


Yes, Van Gundy is a good guy and a media favorite, but he was a lousy hire. He's nothing more than a glorified assistant, a seat-warmer, a follower to Riley's leader, a guy who often sweated more than his players. Especially after Riley pulled off one of the top two or three trades in league history -- stealing Shaquille O'Neal from the Lakers -- Van Gundy was overmatched.


No way Shaq ever looked at Van Gundy and thought anything but: "You're kidding me." As Heat games turned into celebrity-studded events, Van Gundy looked more and more like a guy who had won a backstage pass in a radio station contest. Van Gundy coaching South Beach's team always felt something like "The King of Queens" hosting a Grammys after party.


During the offseason, Riley basically rigged the roster for Van Gundy to fail or quit. Van Gundy could sooner juggle chainsaws than the nitro egos of newcomers Antoine Walker, Gary Payton and Jason Williams, mixed in with Shaq and Dwyane Wade. Worse, Riley stated publicly that he wanted to coach again.


Riley finally put poor Van Gundy out of his misery just as -- what a coincidence -- Shaq was returning from an ankle injury. Van Gundy, NBA lifer that he is, took the high road, insisting he was quitting to spend more time with his family. Yet he remains employed by the team and will collect a large portion of his reported $3 million salary this season and next.


This is basically hush money.


Van Gundy is being paid to participate in a charade that will help keep his reputation and Riley's image intact. He agreed not to criticize Riley, even though he would have been justified in going down with his guns blazing. He remains a "good guy" -- a very respected (and hire-able) member of the NBA's assistant coaching fraternity -- while Riley doesn't look quite so Machiavellian.


Still, all that really matters here is that Riley just made a move almost as great as trading for Shaq. There's only one coach capable of cracking the whip on this roster and this overweight superstar. That coach is the GM who assembled this team: Riley.


Shaq fears and respects Riley. Riley knows that Wade still needs to play Robin to Shaq's Batman if the Heat are going to conquer Gotham City again. If Riley gets Shaq back in shape and in sync -- the Very Big Fella needs to lose 20 pounds while getting at least 20 shots a game -- look out, all you Jokers and Riddlers.


The Heat just went from the East's third-best team, behind Detroit and Indiana, to potentially the favorite.


Indiana, on the other hand, is about to become playoff fodder.


Now it comes clear: That sly fox Bird was running a little con game on the league when he agreed to pose for the cover of Sports Illustrated's NBA issue standing literally behind his man Artest.


Bird was quoted as saying: "Like me, he plays the game to win. Because of his intensity and desire to win, Ronnie's a guy I would pay money to watch play. … Look, Ronnie made a horrible mistake going into the stands [in Detroit last season], but he tucks his shirttail in and comes to battle every day. That makes me proud."


This isn't to suggest that Bird didn't believe those words. He still does. But he also was trying to rebuild Artest's trade value.


If Bird's two prized offseason additions proved to be as good as he anticipated, he obviously planned to quietly shop Artest in December. Sarunas Jasikevicius, Bird's Euro-toughened, 29-year-old rookie shooter, immediately looked like an NBA veteran, while rookie forward Danny Granger soon looked like a 17th-pick steal.


Yet together, these two won't ever measure up to the impact Artest can have.



Some team is gonna get a big boost when it adds Artest.
He rivals Bruce Bowen as the league's best on-the-ball defender. Yet Bowen is more of a pest. Artest is a 6-foot-7, 255-pound bully. Bowen irritates you. Artest scares the hell out of you.


Artest makes all his teammates feel a little tougher. Artest gave the Pacers a defensive identity, as well as an overpowering offensive option. Artest could manhandle most of the two guards or small forwards who try to guard him. He knows all the low-post tricks and he has made himself into a pretty good outside shooter.


He's not the greatest athlete or leaper, but he plays basketball the way Brian Urlacher plays football: all-out. He can score 30 while holding the opponent's top scorer to 15. Artest is a difference maker.


So why in the name of, well, Bird, would Bird trade him? He's a bargain All-Star who's signed for four more years at team-friendly salaries ranging from only $6.8 million to $7.5 million.


One explanation making the NBA rounds is the "knucklehead" theory. One GM said: "Most people in the league believe that you can get away with having one knucklehead on your team, but not two. The Pacers have Artest and Stephen Jackson -- and sometimes you wonder about Jermaine O'Neal.


"So maybe Bird decided he needed addition by subtraction. Maybe he decided that as much as he likes Artest, a cloud would always hang over him with the Pacers and that he and the team just needed a change of scenery."


So, apparently, Bird explored some trade options. That's what keeps getting overlooked. Artest's initial "I want to be traded" salvo came in response to a rumor that Indiana and Sacramento had discussed an Artest-for-Peja Stojakovic trade.


Artest can act dumb, but he ain't basketball-stupid. He called out Bird and coach Rick Carlisle, loudly wondering why he has been phased out of the offense even though he often has mismatches.


Good question. But obviously, you can't ask it publicly without alienating your coach and teammates. Unlike Van Gundy, Artest took the low road.


Then again, is it fair to condemn Artest by saying, "The Pacers stood behind him through last year's suspension. How could he turn on them?"


No.


Once again: Artest didn't land a single punch when he went into the stands after the cup-thrower in Detroit. The only ones he threw were at the guy who was sucker-punching him from behind.


The only one he landed was on the jaw of the idiot who squared off with him after he had returned to the playing floor.


And for that he was suspended for the rest of the season: 73 games. That was excessive. Yet Artest stayed in superb shape and looked like an MVP candidate in the preseason.


Terrell Owens will always be more trouble than he's worth. Not Artest.


Yet Artest undercut Bird's plan to trade him by demanding a trade. Now he looks like a "bad guy" again. Now Indiana's leverage falls. Now Bird is backed into a position of basically having to give away a difference maker.


This bridge is on fire from both ends. According to GMs who have called about Artest, Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh is saying Artest will be traded by the weekend.


The Pacers will not be as formidable without Artest.


But some team is about to get scary better. Walsh has been telling GMs that he's leaning toward trading Artest to the West.


Artest would immediately give the Suns, Mavericks, Rockets, Clippers, Grizzlies and Timberwolves a defensive identity they don't have and make them threats to the Spurs. That, of course, would depend on what they had to give up for Artest.


Yet even worse for the Pacers, his salary is so low that they'll have to package other contracts (Austin Croshere? Jeff Foster?) to get back a high-paid, star-quality player and make the deal work under the cap. So the Pacers could really get the worst of this if getting rid of Artest requires a three-for-one swap.


I spoke Wednesday night with a Western Conference GM who said: "I hate the thought of having Artest on my team, but he's just what we need. You're gambling he'll be on his best behavior and maybe want to prove something to the Pacers, but I'm going to make an offer for him."


In fact, this GM was considering offering an All-Star for Artest "because it isn't very often that a player of this caliber comes on the market and could come with a Croshere or a Jeff Foster."


The Pacers will regret trading Artest. And they'll miss him most when they're eliminated early in the playoffs by Riley's Heat.


Skip Bayless can be seen Monday through Friday on "Cold Pizza," ESPN2's morning show, and at 4 p.m. ET on ESPN's "1st & 10." His column appears twice a week on Page 2. You can e-mail Skip

Unclebuck
12-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Rashard Lewis ?

I don't know but he was an allstar last season. First name that came to my mind. Wo else were on the WCAS team.

jmoney2584
12-15-2005, 02:36 PM
hmm... well...yea...nevermind...

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Assuming we're talking current All-Star, here were last seasons All-Stars that are currently in the West:

Kobe
T-Mac
Duncan
KG
Yao
Ray Allen
Manu
Dirk
Amare
Nash
Marion
Rashard Lewis

Lewis seems the most likely of those to me.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-15-2005, 02:39 PM
This is interesting too:

"According to GMs who have called about Artest, Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh is saying Artest will be traded by the weekend. "

Since86
12-15-2005, 02:39 PM
I'd imagine it was Cuban. They have ZERO defensive stoppers, and he's always willing to make a gamble.

Los Angeles
12-15-2005, 02:40 PM
Thanks for the wonderful and specific news, Skip. :rolleyes:

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:41 PM
If you go back two years, you can add these guys to the list:

Sam Cassell
AK47
Brad Miller
Peja
Baron Davis
Kenyon Martin

Unclebuck
12-15-2005, 02:43 PM
The only Mavs allstar is Dirk. Could it be. No way. Do the Mavs have another former Allstar.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-15-2005, 02:43 PM
Oops... already posted

2004 Allstars:

"Ray Allen (Seattle) G 6-5 205 4
*Kobe Bryant (L.A. Lakers) G 6-6 220 6
Sam Cassell (Minnesota)** G 6-3 185 1
*Tim Duncan (San Antonio) F 7-0 260 6
*Steve Francis (Houston) G 6-3 200 3
*Kevin Garnett (Minnesota) F 6-11 240 7
Andrei Kirilenko (Utah)** F 6-9 225 1
Brad Miller (Sacramento) C 7-0 261 2
Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas) F/C 7-0 245 3
Shaquille O'Neal (L.A. Lakers) C 7-1 340 11
Peja Stojakovic (Sacramento) G 6-10 229 3
*Yao Ming (Houston) C 7-6 310 2 "

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/020304_2004AllStar.html

Unclebuck
12-15-2005, 02:44 PM
I bet it's Kenyon Martin he was talking about.



I could se that. Although he's injured and I've read some things that he is showing some wear and tear.

unstandable
12-15-2005, 02:46 PM
The only Mavs allstar is Dirk. Could it be. No way. Do the Mavs have another former Allstar.

Stackhouse

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:48 PM
Lewis/Collison for Artest/Pollard works. I'd love to put Bender in instead of Scot, though.

Martin/Lenard for Artest/Pollard [or Bender] also works.

MagicRat
12-15-2005, 02:49 PM
I'd imagine it was Cuban. They have ZERO defensive stoppers, and he's always willing to make a gamble.

FWIW, the Mavs play-by-play guy was on Full Court Press today, and he said no way would the Mavs make a play for Artest.

Now how much inside info the play-by-play guys have, I don't know. Maybe there's somebody on here who could give some insight into that?

CableKC
12-15-2005, 02:52 PM
I could se that. Although he's injured and I've read some things that he is showing some wear and tear.
Say no to KMart....ignoring that he plays the PF position.....if we want to steer clear of injury ridden players.....then KMart is not the answer.

Kegboy
12-15-2005, 02:53 PM
Does anybody else feel this guy was just "pulling a Donnie" and trying to drive the price up for his competitors? I have a hard time seeing any GM say, "I hate the guy, but we need him, I'm gonna offer an All-Star", even off the record.

That said, if this is true, it does sound like Seattle.

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:54 PM
Say no to KMart....ignoring that he plays the PF position.....if we want to steer clear of injury ridden players.....then KMart is not the answer.

He's also a bit of a headcase and has a large deal. I agree with steering clear of K-Mart.

Now, Rashard Lewis is very interesting. Hmm... :chin:

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:55 PM
Does anybody else feel this guy was just "pulling a Donnie" and trying to drive the price up for his competitors? I have a hard time seeing any GM say, "I hate the guy, but we need him, I'm gonna offer an All-Star", even off the record.

That said, if this is true, it does sound like Seattle.

I think that's the exact thought going throgh a lot of GMs' minds right now, though.

Aw Heck
12-15-2005, 02:56 PM
This is the same Skip Bayless who said on Cold Pizza that the Timberwolves should trade Garnett for Artest, Croshere, and Foster. And he wasn't joking.

lenin_fresh
12-15-2005, 02:57 PM
I hate speculating on things like this because I suck at business. But does anybody think it could be Yao that they're talking about? I tried that RealGM trade checker and nothing worked out. But I'm hearing a lot that Yao isn't playing up to his potential. And with the way Houston's record is, I wouldn't be shocked to see them make some changes soon.

naptownmenace
12-15-2005, 02:59 PM
All I know is Lewis seemed a little concerned about whether or not he might be traded in that article out of Seattle the other day.

I'd absolutely love getting Lewis in return. He's as good as Ron offensively and is a better rebounder. We totally lose out on the defensive end but that was bound to happen anyway.

unstandable
12-15-2005, 03:00 PM
Wally Szczerbiak is another former All-Star.

Kegboy
12-15-2005, 03:04 PM
Wally Szczerbiak is another former All-Star.

You're right. And I can see them wanting Jeff or Austin, too. Can't say I'd be thrilled with that, but that may be the only decent offer we get.

Mourning
12-15-2005, 03:05 PM
Does anybody else feel this guy was just "pulling a Donnie" and trying to drive the price up for his competitors? I have a hard time seeing any GM say, "I hate the guy, but we need him, I'm gonna offer an All-Star", even off the record.

That said, if this is true, it does sound like Seattle.

Yup! I got the same impression. The Kings I also thought about.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Slick Pinkham
12-15-2005, 03:07 PM
Bayless must know Cuban quite well, from his days as a sports columnist for the Dallas Morning News.

If this is Stackhouse we are referring to... well,

NEVER MIND.

I'me sure Dikembe Mutombo and Kevin Willis are available too.

:rolleyes:

Mourning
12-15-2005, 03:09 PM
Say no to KMart....ignoring that he plays the PF position.....if we want to steer clear of injury ridden players.....then KMart is not the answer.

His contract is too large, but ehmm... we seem to be having more players with that problem. He would help keeping a good defensive identity on the inside though. Still, I don't see this option happenning with Carmello there.

Someone mentioned Wally, now THAT makes a lot of sense too with regards to a GM mentioning giving up an all-star. He would be nice offensively, but our defense :uhoh:.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Ragnar
12-15-2005, 03:10 PM
So, apparently, Bird explored some trade options. That's what keeps getting overlooked. Artest's initial "I want to be traded" salvo came in response to a rumor that Indiana and Sacramento had discussed an Artest-for-Peja Stojakovic trade.

I said this last week and I was roundly booed.



Man my blood is starting to boil. If we trade Foster with Ron I will be so pissed.

themachotaco
12-15-2005, 03:11 PM
Stackhouse

Great point -- everyone so far is focusing on people who were All-Stars IN the West... So why not look at who has been an all-star and is now in the West.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Ray Allen
Elton Brand
Kobe Bryant
Sam Cassell
Baron Davis
Tim Duncan
Michael Finley
Kevin Garnett
Manu Ginobili
Juwan Howard
Eddie Jones
Andrei Kirilenko
Rashard Lewis
Shawn Marion
Tracy McGrady
Brad Miller
Yao Ming
Dikembe Mutumbo
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Theo Ratliff
Jerry Stackhouse
Peja Stojakovic
Amare Stoudemire
Wally Szczerbiak
Nick Van Exel

Now lets cut down players that we know won't be traded, and eliminate all of the Spurs and probably the Jazz (I just don't see Artest in SLC??)

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Juwan Howard
Eddie Jones
Rashard Lewis
Kenyon Martin
Brad Miller
Theo Ratliff
Jerry Stackhouse
Peja Stojakovic
Wally Szczerbiak

So those are former All Stars who might be in play with our mysterious "Western GM."

(I took off T-Mac, you might disagree with me and think he should still be on the list... I also really think that Theo Ratliff could be taken off, Portland is not a contender, and Ron doesn't make them one.)

Will Galen
12-15-2005, 03:16 PM
We have to look at this statement.

"In fact, this GM was considering offering an All-Star for Artest 'because it isn't very often that a player of this caliber comes on the market and could come with a Croshere or a Jeff Foster."'

Ron and Foster could be traded for both Martin and Lewis. Subbing Cro for Foster and neither trade works.

BillS
12-15-2005, 03:20 PM
I love the buy-in here that Artest, at 19.4 points per game for the season (17.25 per game in his last 4, playing time in last 4 of 36:08.75 per game) was being "phased out" of the offense - especially since the "last 4" average is down due to a couple of spectacularly horrible free throw shooting nights.

What a bunch of mowroons.

BillS
12-15-2005, 03:22 PM
So, apparently, Bird explored some trade options. That's what keeps getting overlooked. Artest's initial "I want to be traded" salvo came in response to a rumor that Indiana and Sacramento had discussed an Artest-for-Peja Stojakovic trade.

I said this last week and I was roundly booed.


I think to be fair the reaction was during the "shock" period, where folks were reaslly trying to come up with a <i>valid</i> reason for Ronnie to be so pissed off.

Gyron
12-15-2005, 03:34 PM
I watched Kenyon play in Charlotte the other night. I DO NOT WANT HIM ON THE PACERS. He was a real D**K to everyone, the crowd and the Bobcats players, including acting like an assbag to some of his own teammates.

He was flexing and showing off the whole night while not really accomplishing crap.

PLEASE DON'T BRING THAT *** TO THIS TEAM DONNIE.

By the way, when I went to the game, I got a good look at the nuggets and bobcats players.

I wouldn't mind getting Rush from Charlotte. Miller from Denver had a pretty good game. Melo was unstoppable that night, although I know thats not even an option. Peanut Butter played ok, but he had a hard time with his shot, and couldn't make a simple shot from right under the basket the whole night. I think he sat out most of the fourth quarter because Denver was just owning him all night long when he tried to defend. The other thing I noticed is he runs really funny. Very flat footed. Almost liked he shuffles his feet down the floor. Reminded me a little of Rik Smits.

The New arena is a lot like Conseco with improvements in seating and the suites. I was in one of the suites and I have to say it was deluxe. Very nice, LOTS of room. Excellent food, service and view. The inside of the arena looks very much like conseco, with the exception of how they did their club level seating. Its like sitting at a bar. They have probably 50% of the club level set up like that. It was very nice. And probably 30% of the club level seating also had their own plasma screen TV's that had up to date stats on the screen and replays(basically the overhead scoreboard).

blanket
12-15-2005, 03:40 PM
He's also a bit of a headcase and has a large deal. I agree with steering clear of K-Mart.

Now, Rashard Lewis is very interesting. Hmm... :chin:

I could see a 3 team trade involving K-Mart where Denver gets Artest and another player, another team gets K-Mart, and we get a group of players coming from one or both of those two teams.

Naptown Seth
12-15-2005, 04:57 PM
Rashard Lewis is better than Artest in every aspect of the game outside of defense. Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, better handler, better rebounder. If we could actually get him for Artest, I'd be overjoyed.

sig
12-15-2005, 05:13 PM
how bout Brad Miller? Is he untouchable in Sacto. They are playing fairly lousy right now. If they were getting Foster to provide center play along with Artest. Foster, Artest and Austin for Miller and Bozo Wells works. Maybe, Peja and Ron would be a fit together.

Will Galen
12-15-2005, 05:19 PM
Al Harrington would be a better choice than Martin. I don't know who I would choose if I had to choose between Harrington and Lewis. I think Al is better on the boards and a better defender. He also knows this system. Lewis is clearly a better scorer.

denyfizle
12-15-2005, 05:20 PM
Wally aint bad at all. He's having a nice comeback to his all-star form this season. I like Eddie Griffin too al though he has a nutty history too.

Shade
12-15-2005, 05:20 PM
Al Harrington would be a better choice than Martin. I don't know who I would choose if I had to choose between Harrington and Lewis. I think Al is better on the boards and a better defender. He also knows this system. Lewis is clearly a better scorer.

I would prefer Lewis, but wouldn't cry if we got Al instead.

Destined4Greatness
12-15-2005, 05:21 PM
I guess skippy doesn't realize we were a defensive team last year without Artest. And we own the Heat. THey are our *****'s. They lose when we tell them too.

Jamaal tells wade to jump, wade says how high.

ChicagoJ
12-15-2005, 05:26 PM
Manu.

:pray:

Hoop
12-15-2005, 05:34 PM
Rashard Lewis is better than Artest in every aspect of the game outside of defense. Better scorer, better shooter, better passer, better handler, better rebounder. If we could actually get him for Artest, I'd be overjoyed.I just can't fathom it happening, but I'd be overjoyed too!

Shade
12-15-2005, 05:37 PM
The more I think about Rashard Lewis, the more giddy I get. Getting him for Ron would be amazing.

Eindar
12-15-2005, 06:21 PM
Well, this West GM said that he was wanting Foster or Croshere in exhange, which to me, means he'd be giving up a PF or Center, and Foster/Croshere would essentially be a band-aid to cover it up. I'd hate to say Yao, because he's such an icon, and does more for attendance than his numbers would dictate. But the fact of the matter is, right now he's a mediocre center on a struggling team, and to get Artest and Foster for him would be pretty enticing, especially considering Artest and Foster are just the kind of scrappy defenders that Van Gundy loves. Throw into it that we can't be the only ones who've realized that Foster is the anti-Duncan, and I really could see Yao or B. Miller coming here for those two. Why B. Miller, you ask? Because Sacramento is changing. They've still got scorers, but they don't have the pieces to run that flowing euro offense anymore. They could still be a good fast break team though, and Foster is much more suited to that than Brad.

It's all speculation, but that's what I've gathered from the tidbits thrown out there.

GO!!!!!
12-15-2005, 06:27 PM
Yao's never gonna leave... he's there TEAM, there ICON, never ever ever...


I'm Favoring Lewis with all this talk and Dallas, I'm 99 percent sure there making a massive run for artest, just sceptical if DW would pull a trade with them..

Here is the big Dilema, you can get better value if you trade him to a winning team, but trading him to a winning team can also cost you a championship...


Atlanta, Raptors, Sonics & wildcards Mavs & G State

thats the only teams I see a deal cranking with..

Gamble
12-15-2005, 08:36 PM
I'm not worried about the sonics or the Mavs, we need to make it
past the first round let alone look all the way ahead to a championship.

Pacerized
12-15-2005, 08:50 PM
I wouldn't want Martin. When he first came to the Nuggets, he punched Nene during practice, and the 2 were separated. He's tough, but the injuries scare me. Leonard still has enough left to start at the 2 for us this year. If we were to trade with the Nuggets, I'd rather have Nene. Is it too late to sign him to an extension before being traded?

obnoxiousmodesty
12-15-2005, 10:59 PM
If everyone ignored Skip Bayless, would he cease to exist? I doubt it, but it'd be fun to give it a try.

Jaydawg2270
12-15-2005, 11:04 PM
I wouldn't want Martin. When he first came to the Nuggets, he punched Nene during practice, and the 2 were separated. He's tough, but the injuries scare me. Leonard still has enough left to start at the 2 for us this year. If we were to trade with the Nuggets, I'd rather have Nene. Is it too late to sign him to an extension before being traded?

Kenyon had a verbal exchange with a camera man during tonights game....

Anthem
12-15-2005, 11:09 PM
I'll go on the record saying Rashard Lewis would be my pick over just about anybody we've seen mentioned. That would be great.

He's durable, he can score, he can play decent D, he's 6'10", and he's a good team guy. Like I said, I'd go for that in a heartbeat over anybody else we've seen. Vince? Kenyon? D. George? No thank you.

tadscout
12-15-2005, 11:11 PM
I'll go on the record saying Rashard Lewis would be my pick over just about anybody we've seen mentioned. That would be great.

I would have to agree.

Diesel_81
12-15-2005, 11:14 PM
I also think if this story is true its Rashard Lewis that is being mentioned and he would be an excellent second option on this team. I also wonder if AK-47 could be had. Jerry Sloan I don't think he is in love with the guy, hasn't he questioned his toughness in the past? He makes alot of money and tends to get injured alot but I would love him in a pacer uniform.

Dr Huxtable
12-15-2005, 11:17 PM
What position would Lewis play here? SF or PF? He seems right in the middle in terms of height, but I honestly don't know anything about his game other than stats. I don't want him to come in as a PF because that means JO goes to the five, and that's never good on his body. So, I'm assuming that if we do get him that he would simply take over at the SF and the rest of our lineup stays the same? And maybe I'm wrong, but as good of a defender as Ron is, maybe Lewis would be better to learn from than Ron for Granger. Granger already has the defense, he just needs to work on his offense it seems, and I think that a lot of times Ron relied on his strength to score, something that Danny doesn't really have.

tadscout
12-15-2005, 11:20 PM
What position would Lewis play here? SF or PF? He seems right in the middle in terms of height, but I honestly don't know anything about his game other than stats. I don't want him to come in as a PF because that means JO goes to the five, and that's never good on his body. So, I'm assuming that if we do get him that he would simply take over at the SF and the rest of our lineup stays the same? And maybe I'm wrong, but as good of a defender as Ron is, maybe Lewis would be better to learn from than Ron for Granger. Granger already has the defense, he just needs to work on his offense it seems, and I think that a lot of times Ron relied on his strength to score, something that Danny doesn't really have.

He's a SF

Shade
12-15-2005, 11:21 PM
If everyone ignored Skip Bayless, would he cease to exist? I doubt it, but it'd be fun to give it a try.

It's kind of like that old conundrum:

"If I take Skip out to the forest and shoot him down, will anyone even care?"

pizza guy
12-15-2005, 11:27 PM
Lewis would be a heck of a XMas present from Santa Walsh.

tadscout
12-15-2005, 11:32 PM
I wonder what # Lewis would wear if we did trade for him...

hoopburners
12-15-2005, 11:45 PM
I know. It's definitely KG. :D

blanket
12-16-2005, 02:09 PM
In fact, this GM was considering offering an All-Star for Artest "because it isn't very often that a player of this caliber comes on the market and could come with a Croshere or a Jeff Foster."

Let's look at this quote for a minute.

First, how would everyone here feel if we had to include Cro or Foster in a deal in order to get an All-Star for Artest?

Second, which of the likely WC All-Stars this GM is talking about would you do an Artest + Cro/Foster trade for:

Lewis
Odom
Martin
Szczerbiak

And third, would you be more willing to throw in Cro or Foster at this point in order to make the trade?

Naptown Seth
12-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Let's look at this quote for a minute.

First, how would everyone here feel if we had to include Cro or Foster in a deal in order to get an All-Star for Artest?

Second, which of the likely WC All-Stars this GM is talking about would you do an Artest + Cro/Foster trade for:

Lewis
Odom
Martin
Szczerbiak

And third, would you be more willing to throw in Cro or Foster at this point in order to make the trade?
1. Provided the "All-Star" was good enough, I'd be willing to include Croshere. But out of the four players you listed, I don't think I'd deal Artest + Foster for any of them. The only way I'd be willing to deal Artest + Foster is if (A) the player in return was a perenial All-Star (none of the 4 listed are) or (B) Artest by himself was only attracting crap offers and including Foster was the difference between landing a Rashard Lewis-level plater or a Mo Pete/Matt Bonner/Denver 1st package. And if B were the case, I'd seriously consider working something out with Artest and his agent first.

2. Lewis - Yes, Croshere
Odom - Yes, Croshere
Martin - No
Szczerbiak - Hell No

3. Croshere, obviously from my earlier answers.

indiana_07_pacers
12-16-2005, 03:25 PM
Cmon Shawn Marion!! Ok I can only hope but I would be happy if we got Rashard out of this.

birdman
12-16-2005, 03:33 PM
Artest and Pollard for Shawn Marion???

TheSauceMaster
12-16-2005, 03:36 PM
No question in my mind it's Brad Miller :buddies:

Jaydawg2270
12-16-2005, 03:40 PM
Why does Croshere have to be punshied by trading him with artest?

BillS
12-16-2005, 03:43 PM
Without knowing who, I'd have to think pretty hard about that.

Trading an all-star plus a solid role player for an all-star and nothing would be a problem. I don't see anyone on the team giving us what Austin and Jeff give us, not least of which the energy they play with.

Having all-stars is required, but part of our problem is that we don't have enough solid roleplayers who accept that role. I'd hate to dump one unless the deal was far too sweet to refuse.

themachotaco
12-16-2005, 04:46 PM
Let's look at this quote for a minute.

First, how would everyone here feel if we had to include Cro or Foster in a deal in order to get an All-Star for Artest?

Second, which of the likely WC All-Stars this GM is talking about would you do an Artest + Cro/Foster trade for:

Lewis
Odom
Martin
Szczerbiak

And third, would you be more willing to throw in Cro or Foster at this point in order to make the trade?

1. Would not feel happy about it. Both for the above reasons, and because (Artest notwithstanding) Foster is one of our few tradeable assets. On how many teams in this league would Foster NOT be a valuable member of the rotation? Not many. I know Artest has very little value right now, but he is better than any player we will bring back. I would hope if we had to include someone else that there would be something else coming our way -- young back-up, expiring contract, draft pick.

2. Lewis or Odom - Yes and would be willing to part with Croshere because Lewis/Odom can play some 4
Martin - only straight up for Artest
Szczerbiak - not even for Artest straight up if there were other offers (better than MoPete/Francis/Walker, though if I had a gun to my head)

... Brad Miller?

I would trade either for this two-time former All-Star. IOW I would only trade Foster if getting a center back, and Brad would make Jeff a more expendable. (Although if I remember right, Miller/Foster on the court at the same time wasn't such a bad thing?)

3. Croshere... the player we're getting back would probably better have some of Austin's skillset more than Jeff's

DEEman
12-16-2005, 05:09 PM
Hey guys, i found something on a supersonics forum:


As he was discussing his latest, unexpected milestone, Seattle SuperSonics All-Star forward Rashard Lewis revealed Wednesday that he plans on opting out of his contract after next season and once again becoming an unrestricted free agent.

Including this season, Lewis has four years and around $48 million remaining on the seven-year, $60 million contract he signed in the summer of 2003.

But the team gave Lewis an option to get out of the contract after the 2006-07 season, which Lewis said he will take. If he does, he will forgo $21 million over the final two years of his deal to seek a more lucrative contract.

?My mind-set is, to me, I am going to look at the last two years of my contract and see how much I can make those last two years, and how much I can get if I opt out of my contract,? said Lewis, who moved into second place on the team?s all-time list by making his 700th 3-pointer Tuesday night (he trails only Gary Payton). ?There are a lot of areas I am going to have to look at.

?See what teams are going to be able to pay me, or will the Sonics be willing to pay me? Nick Collison is going to be up, Luke (Ridnour) is going to be up, there will be a lot of confusion going on after the money that Ray (Allen) got. It will be tough, a lot of tough decisions, but I do plan on opting out.?

original source:http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/5353647p-4845743c.html
This makes an Artest-Lewis deal more realistic

Will Galen
12-16-2005, 05:32 PM
Hey guys, i found something on a supersonics forum:


This makes an Artest-Lewis deal more realistic

Look at the timing. If he said that Wednesday he's saying it so the Pacer's won't trade for him.

tadscout
12-16-2005, 05:35 PM
Look at the timing. If he said that Wednesday he's saying it so the Pacer's won't trade for him.

Who says he would opt out if he was with the Pacers?

Doesn't he have a strained relationship with the Sonics which could be the main reason he would want to opt out?

Naptown Seth
12-16-2005, 05:36 PM
Look at the timing. If he said that Wednesday he's saying it so the Pacer's won't trade for him.
Or he could be saying it dropping hints to us. "Hey I'm opting out at the end of next year. If you're gonna be willing to pay me, go ahead and trade for me."

Or maybe not. :(

DEEman
12-16-2005, 05:37 PM
Someone posted that article the 24th of november

( http://mb3.scout.com/fseattlesupersonicsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=984.to pic )

blanket
12-16-2005, 05:40 PM
Or he could be saying it dropping hints to us. "Hey I'm opting out at the end of next year. If you're gonna be willing to pay me, go ahead and trade for me."

Or maybe not. :(

Either way, do we want to risk trading Ron for a 1 year rental?

Naptown Seth
12-16-2005, 05:46 PM
Either way, do we want to risk trading Ron for a 1 year rental?
Well, Donnie knows the situation, so if he were to trade for Rashard, I'm sure he'd be willing to pay him when that time comes.

DEEman
12-16-2005, 05:49 PM
Well, Donnie knows the situation, so if he were to trade for Rashard, I'm sure he'd be willing to pay him when that time comes.
When we trade for Al, we will have that same problem right? And most of us are also willing to do that Al-deal...

And Lewis just want more money, as a reason to stay. Do we have that next season?

PacerMan
12-16-2005, 05:52 PM
Hey guys, i found something on a supersonics forum:


This makes an Artest-Lewis deal more realistic

Opting out of 10.5 million dollars a year. F'ing unbelievable..................

Bball
12-16-2005, 05:53 PM
Either way, do we want to risk trading Ron for a 1 year rental?

1.5 years.. correct?

Yes.... if you think a player would help, let alone think he's a missing piece, then you have to do it.

Plus, let's be awfully careful of thinking we're in the driver's seat with the Artest situation anyway.

-Bball

PacerMan
12-16-2005, 05:53 PM
Well, Donnie knows the situation, so if he were to trade for Rashard, I'm sure he'd be willing to pay him when that time comes.

No way in H are they going to pay him 13+? Million per..................

tadscout
12-16-2005, 05:55 PM
Like I said before...

Doesn't he have a strained relationship with the Sonics which could be the main reason he would want to opt out?

So who says he would opt out if he was with the Pacers?

SamBear
12-17-2005, 05:15 PM
The San Antonio Spurs -- until this week easily the NBA's best team -- now have to worry about facing Artest's team in the Western Conference playoffs and Riley's in the NBA Finals. Yet both these moves have been underestimated because of two media-driven stereotypes: Stan Van Gundy, "good guy." Ron Artest, "bad guy."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:mygod:

themachotaco
12-17-2005, 05:45 PM
Opting out of 10.5 million dollars a year. F'ing unbelievable..................

Definitely. Who would give him a max deal? At that time he would be going into his 10th season at 28 years old. Granted he has a better chance of a long-term payoff then rather than playing the last two years of his current deal and being a FA at 12 years and 30...

It just seems to me his best chance for a pay-day has come and gone.

BTW, according to RealGM, right now he is the 37th highest paid player in the NBA. Allen is 26th.

(Totally off the point, but interesting to look at the Pacers #s...
JO = 6th
Austin = 65th
Bender = 79th
Artest = 86th)