PDA

View Full Version : "Pacers are asking for the World"



Unclebuck
12-15-2005, 09:41 AM
So says a Mavs official

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/basketball/nba/dallas_mavericks/13413048.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp




At right price, Artest might be Mavs' championship key

By JIM REEVES
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS -- This one is a character tester.

This one will make you check your hole card.

This one could have you mumbling to yourself all season.

Ron Artest: Should the Mavs take the gamble or play the hand they've been dealt?

Gut instinct says leave him alone. He's T.O. in baggy shorts. He's Randy Moss on hardwood. He's very bad news. Let someone else borrow that trouble.

But in the back of my mind, I wonder: Is this the elite player who could put the Mavs over the top, the missing piece that could make them as good as the San Antonio Spurs? Or even better?

And the whisper that comes back is, yeah, that's exactly what he could be.

If the Mavs want to win an NBA championship this season, it's a risk they have to take.

But only if the price is right.

"They [the Indiana Pacers] are asking the world," one Mavs official said after Wednesday night's 102-96 victory over Phoenix. "We're not going to mortgage our future for him."

The official company line has become almost a mantra when Artest's name comes up.

"We like our team," coach Avery Johnson said before the game.

"We like our team," echoed owner Mark Cuban during his pregame ritual on the Stairmaster. "You can talk about any player in the league and speculate.

"What I will tell you is, just because a player demands something doesn't mean it's going to happen."

But the Pacers have said they intend to try to accommodate Artest by the end of the week.

"What better way to defuse the situation?" Cuban said. "I don't know Ron at all, and there's no reason to do our homework and find out."

Whoa. Avery had just told the media in his pregame briefing that homework is exactly what the Mavs do in situations like this, and Cuban is no dummy.

So why was Cuban being so coy?

Of course they've done their homework. If the Mavs' brain trust hasn't collectively discussed the pros and cons of bringing Artest to Dallas, then I'll happily volunteer to wear Mark's silliest Mavs T-shirt to a home game sometime this season.

This subject is so sensitive around the AAC, even Big Nellie backed away when it came up.

"Anything I say could be misconstrued," Don Nelson said. "Ask Mark or Donnie."

I already know what they'd say: "We like our team."

Nellie knows that Artest could be to the Mavs what Brett Hull once was to the Stars or Charles Haley was to the Cowboys.

Artest is arguably a top-10 talent with exactly the skills the Mavs need. He's a good offensive player, a strong rebounder and a great defensive player. He would bring an element of toughness that the Mavs lack.

"It's something you'd have to be interested in," former Mavs guard Derek Harper said. "There are some things you put up with if you have a chance to win a championship."

Artest is Bruce Bowen with an offensive game. He could be the second option behind Dirk Nowitzki that the Mavs have so desperately needed.

"Like a lot of other teams, we always do our homework," Avery said. "If we thought there was something out there that could put us over the top or put us on the next level, we would make those calls.

"We just haven't made that call yet. All we're saying is that for our basketball team, [Artest] is not the right fit."

It's the fit that Avery seems most concerned about, not the baggage that Artest brings.

Forget about getting him for Jerry Stackhouse or Keith Van Horn. The Pacers, the Mavs official said, want to start with Josh Howard or Devin Harris, and work from there.

And what about that baggage? What about the mood swings and the violent behavior? What about the CDs and the acting and the other distractions? Do the Mavs really want to expose their young players to this guy?

Yet, one of Artest's most vocal critics, The Indianapolis Star columnist Bob Kravitz, agrees that he could be a difference-maker for a good team.

"I've been calling for him to be traded here for three years, but if I was a team hanging around near the top, he'd be worth the risk," Kravitz said. "The thing is, nobody thinks he's a bad guy. There's no looting or pillaging here, no beating up the wife, or drugs or anything like that. He's just scattered."

Hmmm. I suspect Kravitz has used harsher terms than "scattered" to describe Artest's behavior over the years.

Hull was crazy. Haley was crazy. But Artest is crazy in a you-never-know-what-you're-gonna-get kind of way. He's constantly at the center of some melodrama.

"It's never destructive to other people, but it's destructive to the team," Kravitz said. "Still, you always have the feeling that the light's going to come on at any moment.

"He gives you just enough to make you think he's going to get it some day."

And, of course, every coach believes he's the guy who can flip the switch.

"I've played with players like that before," Avery said. "I wouldn't have a problem coaching that type of player.

"When Nick Van Exel came here, he was supposed to be such a headache. What a headache he was ... He was a headache to the opponents. It's all about the environment, the relationship that particular player has with the coach, with his teammates."

One problem: In Indianapolis, Artest had no relationship with his coach or his teammates. The consensus locker room response to the Pacers agreeing to trade him? Good riddance.

"I guess a leopard never changes his spots," former teammate Reggie Miller told Kravitz earlier this week.

Maybe not. Maybe gut instinct is right. Maybe you don't touch this guy at all. After all, the Mavs are 16-6, the third-best record in the league, without Artest. The risk is enormous.

On the other hand, the reward just might be the same.

indygeezer
12-15-2005, 09:49 AM
Oh, I suppose I could settle for Josh Howard.

Hicks
12-15-2005, 10:06 AM
Unless we asked for Dirk, he should stop whining.

Will Galen
12-15-2005, 10:40 AM
Maybe we should have asked for Dirk, then they would have said, "No, no, no, anyone but Dirk." Then we could have asked for Howard.

Frank Slade
12-15-2005, 11:36 AM
Some of this is posturing, just like Donnie getting 30 calls a day,, Teams are saying they will not give up x player or they are asking too much in an attempt and drive down the market, and then be able to turn around give up more than other teams.

Natston
12-15-2005, 12:12 PM
You're supposed to haggle...

diamonddave00
12-15-2005, 12:37 PM
The Pacers want Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels from the Mavericks .Chance it could be Howard and Harris, but you know its Howard and one of the 2 young guards.

Los Angeles
12-15-2005, 01:25 PM
You're supposed to haggle...
Yes you are.

CableKC
12-15-2005, 01:27 PM
Don't be deluding yourselves into believing that we should expect someone like Josh Howard back from a team like the Mavs. I am inclined to believe that we are not in as great a bargaining position as Walsh would lead us to be in.

I really hope that Walsh isn't deluding himself into believing that we can getting decent starting quality 1st/2nd options from opposing GMs.

I just want to get solid decent players that can fill our needs for this season so that we can move on. The more losses that we pile on....1 so far....the more obvious that it will be that we need to get back something for Artest and therefore put us in a weaker position to bargain.

If there are players that Walsh wants and it costs us some capspace ( that isn't outrageous ) and maybe not getting back a draft pick...then do it.

No matter what....this Artest thing is a huge dark cloud hanging over the head of the players....we have to get it out of the way so that the players can focus on playing.

Most of all....I do not want to be put in a position where we have to deal Artest to the Knicks for QRich or JCrawford!!!!!

Harmonica
12-15-2005, 01:30 PM
The Pacers want Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels from the Mavericks .Chance it could be Howard and Harris, but you know its Howard and one of the 2 young guards.

And for the opportunity to tip the balance of power in the West (at least in the regular season), it's more than worth it. Ron would turn Dallas into a powerhouse and give them a shot at getting farther in the playoffs than they've ever been. I wouldn't do it though, if I were Donnie.

Diesel_81
12-15-2005, 02:03 PM
The Pacers want Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels from the Mavericks .Chance it could be Howard and Harris, but you know its Howard and one of the 2 young guards.


Is asking for Josh Howard and Harris asking for the world?? Now I would be happy getting those two back or Daniels in a trade with the Mavs but none of those guys are going to be superstars. Now if we asked for Dirk and Josh Howard or just Dirk thats reaching but I highly doubt we did that.

Everbody wants Artest but no one wants to give up anything half way decent. Almost all the deals being rumored have us getting guys back that A) washed up or B) taking back bad contracts.I got a kick out of the Post this morning where Isiah basically said all of his young players are off limits( lee, Robinson, Ariza) as if any of those players have a chance to be stars in this league. Hell Lee isn't even activated and at best Ariza is a 9th man on most teams.Talk about overating your own players.

I would rather see Artest sit out the next two years and not play then give Artest up to a team like Dallas, Golden State and watch them win a title and wind up getting anything out of the deal. I still think Walsh is going to get a good deal for Artest but I think its going to take alot longer to trade him then was first reported.

Suaveness
12-15-2005, 02:11 PM
You're supposed to haggle...

Not if your name is Brian and you're about to be captured by Roman guards....

Shade
12-15-2005, 02:12 PM
Every team overrates it's own players and underrates others, just like the fans do. Artest for Howard and Harris/Daniels would be a steal for Dallas, who is on the cusp of something great now. And for us, it allows us to rebuild on the run. We won't be a title contender this year, but maybe in a couple years we could move back up with the right moves.

brichard
12-15-2005, 02:18 PM
Not if your name is Brian and you're about to be captured by Roman guards....

There's one born every minute...

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 02:27 PM
"They [the Indiana Pacers] are asking the world," one Mavs official said after Wednesday night's 102-96 victory over Phoenix. "We're not going to mortgage our future for him."

Mortgage the future (maybe) for a REAL shot at winning it all RIGHT NOW? Bet you WAY more than 1/2 the team owners in pro sports say GO FOR IT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You strike when the iron is hot and you are CLOSE.
Negotiating..............................

Pacesetter
12-15-2005, 04:15 PM
Nothing less than a Top 10 player for Artest. Reggie Miller even said Artest was a Top 10 player in the league, so why not "ask the world!" Good move by the Pacers front office! I don't care if every Pacers fan moans like they did when Walsh skipped on Alford. Giving up a Ron Artest should come with a price tag that other teams feel a big bite from. They SHOULD "mortgage" their future.

Heck for all we know Ron might be able to have an epiphany ... :D

Anything less than a Chris Bosh caliber player and the Pacers will regret it forever.

Think about this for a second guys. How awful would you feel to see Ron playing man to man on the trade we got for him, and then wipes the guy out for 30 pts, 10 rebs, 5 steals, and 0 TO's? There wouldn't be a dry eye in the place, so that's why I believe if we can't get a top 10 player for him, leave his *** on ice for a while .... a LONG WHILE for all I care!

Like they say, "I'm gonna get mine" ;) :D

Mourning
12-15-2005, 04:44 PM
Nothing less than a Top 10 player for Artest. Reggie Miller even said Artest was a Top 10 player in the league, so why not "ask the world!" Good move by the Pacers front office! I don't care if every Pacers fan moans like they did when Walsh skipped on Alford. Giving up a Ron Artest should come with a price tag that other teams feel a big bite from. They SHOULD "mortgage" their future.

Heck for all we know Ron might be able to have an epiphany ... :D

Anything less than a Chris Bosh caliber player and the Pacers will regret it forever.

Think about this for a second guys. How awful would you feel to see Ron playing man to man on the trade we got for him, and then wipes the guy out for 30 pts, 10 rebs, 5 steals, and 0 TO's? There wouldn't be a dry eye in the place, so that's why I believe if we can't get a top 10 player for him, leave his *** on ice for a while .... a LONG WHILE for all I care!

Like they say, "I'm gonna get mine" ;) :D


Man! Are you in for a disappointment. Bosh-calibre players??? For Ron? After what he did to destroy his trade value?

I'm not really expecting much. Just hopefully a talented young player, some throw-in to make the numbers work and maybe a first round pick going our way.

Or we could go for a talented young player, nothing earth shattering though, and a big expiring contract for Ron and one of our own "bad" contracts.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

3Ball
12-15-2005, 04:53 PM
In all seriousness, the thing to do is to trade him to the worst possible team for garbage plus draft choices. Then, we neutralize him in terms of coming back to haunt us and we build to the future. I don't think it's reasonable any more to say that we are a contender this year, but in two or three years, with a couple of high picks, who knows?

denyfizle
12-15-2005, 04:57 PM
I like Josh Howard, Stackhouse and Devin Harris for Artest, Jacko and Tinsley... but yea i think he will shipped to Canada too

sig
12-15-2005, 06:00 PM
I hope the Pacers come out good on the deal cause i grew up a Pacer fan but i am a Mav season tix holder as well and a dedicated Mav fan. I relocated here 20+ years ago to the DFW area. So I follow both teams rather closely.

Artest may have top 10 talent but he ain't no top 10 player in this league. Just him requesting a trade isn't the only reason that he is being accommodated. Artest has no history of bringing home titles only causing disappointments of another failed season for team with high aspirations due to his nutjob antics. His track record for that is highly consistent. Just look at where the pacers are at the moment because of ol' Ron. The Pacers have had enuff and need to move on. The Mavs already gone though this with roy Tarpley. They need to look at their history books. It took them a decade to recover from Tarpley.

I wouldn't trade Howard for Artest much less throw in Daniels or Harris. Howard has developed into a borderline All-Star and is till getting better. He is a class act on the court and off the court. Ask the piston fans and see if they will give you Tayshawn Prince. You will probably get the same answer.

Not saying this what the Pacers should do but if the Pacers decide they want to clear a lot of salary off the books and begin an overhaul then the Mavs may be the team for them to deal with. The Mavs could clear up a lot of your salary problems. Terry, one of our project centers (Mbenga, a 7 foot athletic freak or the 7-5 Russian kid) and Van Horn for Croshere, Artest and Bender will work salary wise. What does having KVH, Pollard and Terry's expiring salaries do for y'all.

stipo
12-15-2005, 06:10 PM
At this point, I think some of us might be actually under-estimating his trade value. There seems to be some pretty frenetic talk and posturing. That only happens when there is alot of interest.

Mourning
12-15-2005, 06:15 PM
I hope the Pacers come out good on the deal cause i grew up a Pacer fan but i am a Mav season tix holder as well and a dedicated Mav fan. I relocated here 20+ years ago to the DFW area. So I follow both teams rather closely.

Artest may have top 10 talent but he ain't no top 10 player in this league. Just him requesting a trade isn't the only reason that he is being accommodated. Artest has no history of bringing home titles only causing disappointments of another failed season for team with high aspirations due to his nutjob antics. His track record for that is highly consistent. Just look at where the pacers are at the moment because of ol' Ron. The Pacers have had enuff and need to move on. The Mavs already gone though this with roy Tarpley. They need to look at their history books. It took them a decade to recover from Tarpley.

I wouldn't trade Howard for Artest much less throw in Daniels or Harris. Howard has developed into a borderline All-Star and is till getting better. He is a class act on the court and off the court. Ask the piston fans and see if they will give you Tayshawn Prince. You will probably get the same answer.

Not saying this what the Pacers should do but if the Pacers decide they want to clear a lot of salary off the books and begin an overhaul then the Mavs may be the team for them to deal with. The Mavs could clear up a lot of your salary problems. Terry, one of our project centers (Mbenga, a 7 foot athletic freak or the 7-5 Russian kid) and Van Horn for Croshere, Artest and Bender will work salary wise. What does having KVH, Pollard and Terry's expiring salaries do for y'all.

Not much, because Indy isn't exactly the most attractive place for FA's with regards to climate, market, etc. The organization and fans are known as class acts, but the other stuff doesn't really put us out forward.

Besides, I don't want to just get salary relief for Artest. That's just stupid, he's way to valuable a trade baite for that (even though he does his UTMOST best to lower it).

Howard for Artest is not good enough for Dallas??? With all due respect, but we shouldn't be talking to Dallas then.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

sig
12-15-2005, 06:26 PM
With all due respect, but we shouldn't be talking to Dallas then.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

I think you are right sir. There has benn contact and both teams moved on. It will be very interesting to see what the deal winds up being.

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 07:15 PM
Nothing less than a Top 10 player for Artest. Reggie Miller even said Artest was a Top 10 player in the league, so why not "ask the world!" Good move by the Pacers front office! I don't care if every Pacers fan moans like they did when Walsh skipped on Alford. Giving up a Ron Artest should come with a price tag that other teams feel a big bite from. They SHOULD "mortgage" their future.

Heck for all we know Ron might be able to have an epiphany ... :D

Anything less than a Chris Bosh caliber player and the Pacers will regret it forever.

Think about this for a second guys. How awful would you feel to see Ron playing man to man on the trade we got for him, and then wipes the guy out for 30 pts, 10 rebs, 5 steals, and 0 TO's? There wouldn't be a dry eye in the place, so that's why I believe if we can't get a top 10 player for him, leave his *** on ice for a while .... a LONG WHILE for all I care!

Like they say, "I'm gonna get mine" ;) :D


My eyes would be dry. I don't give a rats *** what the moron does, I'll ALWAYS be happy we dumped him. Wish we would have 2 years ago when I first wanted to.

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 07:19 PM
What does having KVH, Pollard and Terry's expiring salaries do for y'all.


Make me gag. Dream on :)

Pacesetter
12-15-2005, 07:20 PM
My eyes would be dry. I don't give a rats *** what the moron does, I'll ALWAYS be happy we dumped him. Wish we would have 2 years ago when I first wanted to.

We're going to dump him, but it might as well be a joyful jettison. :D