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Bball
12-15-2005, 05:11 AM
Bitter situation
O'Neal says Artest let teammates down

By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com


The Pacers' All-Star forwards have had their problems, but both say this season is the closest they've ever been.

That's what made Artest's recent trade request so painful, O'Neal said Wednesday.

He thinks Artest turned his back on the same teammates who were suspended, had their images tarnished and lost millions of dollars for coming to his defense during last season's brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills (Mich.).
"I've been through a lot with him," O'Neal said. "I was one of the guys that went to bat for him. For him to talk about another team and other players while he's still on this team, it was disrespectful not only to me, but to the rest of the guys. I don't wish any bad things on Ron. I wish Ron still goes out and accomplishes his goals. It's just a painful thing when you went through what we went through. The money I lost while I was out was extremely high. Now it's like, what was it for?"

O'Neal was suspended for 15 games and lost $2.7 million for his part in the brawl. Stephen Jackson missed 30 games and lost $1.9 million. O'Neal also was charged with two counts of misdemeanor assault and battery. Jackson, Artest and two other Pacers were charged with one count. All five Pacers received probation, community service and a fine.

O'Neal criticized Artest's timing and the manner in which he asked out.
"We felt betrayed, a little disrespected," O'Neal said. "It caught me off-guard because our relationship was at an all-time high. I just wish it was handled differently because as a player, you're always for the players. It's a team sport."

As for their basketball relationship, O'Neal said: "The business relationship is over. That's fact."

O'Neal also said Artest had not contacted any of the Pacers since his trade demand became public.

Artest, who is on the inactive list for at least two more games, said in a phone interview Wednesday he understands O'Neal's frustration. He again said his decision was based on his dislike of playing for coach Rick Carlisle, not on his relationship with O'Neal.

"Jermaine has the right to be mad at me," Artest said. "I don't have a right to be mad at him. What I'm doing is a little selfish, but I still think this will help the team by me leaving. This has nothing to do with Jermaine. Me and Jermaine are cool. I've always said from the beginning that it's Jermaine's team. He's the most qualified for the job to lead this team."

O'Neal backed Artest's comments by saying, "In the off time, when we're in the streets, when I see him and he's with another team, we can talk."

Artest had more to say, however, about his relationship with Carlisle. Artest told The Star on Saturday that his role in Carlisle's offense led to his trade request.

Wednesday, Artest questioned whether Carlisle wanted him on the team.
"I believe coach didn't want me there," Artest said. "I think he did things to make me tick. Why keep fighting coach, when I have enough problems, when I can go elsewhere and play?"

Said Carlisle: "Ron Artest is a great player. He was leading the team in minutes played and was on track to have his best statistical year as a pro. Why would I not want to have a guy like that on my team?"

While Artest leads the team in minutes played and is second in scoring average, he felt stifled in Carlisle's structured system.

"Coach's offense is a distraction," Artest said. "I'm one of the best players in the league, and he won't call a play for me for most of the quarter. That's why I feel like I messed up the offense because I can take my man any time I want. He would call plays for me at the wrong time. He's always constantly switching things up and it's confusing."

Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051215/SPORTS04/512150477/1088

Bball
12-15-2005, 05:14 AM
This is why this can't be allowed to go on too long... Artest will continue to wreck his own trade value by talking (and who knows what else).

DW is busy trying to make it seem to be all about JO and Artest not being able to coexist and then Artest turns around and shoots that down and then turns it around on the coach.

I can't believe that the team hasn't asked him not to do any interviews during this period and yet he's still talking. I'm betting it is against the request of management... AND it would be for his own good too. It wouldn't even surprise me if his agent hasn't requested he remain quiet as well. Yet, he keeps talking.

-Bball

317Kim
12-15-2005, 06:26 AM
:scream: RON STOP TALKING!!! you couldnt get a play for ONE quarter and when he did make a play for you, it was confusing so you don't like him anymore? Is that what it is?

Great..Ron and JO are buddies, you'd think that Ron would talk to JO when the thought occured (about trading) and JO wouldve helped him out of it, but I guess Ron is better friends with the media :(

ReGGiesBoOmBaby
12-15-2005, 06:49 AM
Heck.Shut up Ron PLS!!
Don't believe for a minute this is about Basketball. Obviously,It's all about money for the record label. He must have finally realized that Indy jus isn't the best place to promote his record label. He needs to be in NY.
So get out of here..I hope DW will bring back the best deal possible for the ''Tru Warier''.:pissed: :pissed:

Tim
12-15-2005, 07:26 AM
Let him talk, we finally get to hear the truth about what is wrong inside teh team, instead of us pointing fingers and making stuff up.

Nobody thought Artest situation was at bad as it was. It was all Tinsley this and Tinsley that.

indygeezer
12-15-2005, 07:44 AM
Let him talk, we finally get to hear the truth about what is wrong inside teh team, instead of us pointing fingers and making stuff up.

Nobody thought Artest situation was at bad as it was. It was all Tinsley this and Tinsley that.


The truth? (I'm refraining from using the obvious Jack Nicholson reference here)

The guy is paranoid...he prbably doesn't even know the truth of the matter himself.

I believe coach didn't want me there," Artest said. "I think he did things to make me tick. Why keep fighting coach, when I have enough problems, when I can go elsewhere and play?"

That's like the abusive spouse that claims your behavior caused them to beat you up. "If you didn't make me so mad I wouldn't have to..."

He is convincing himself of a new truth so that he doesn't have to feel remoarse or be responsible for what happend.
He can't handle the truth.
(man it was like a knot in my stomach, I just had to say it)

Stryder
12-15-2005, 07:56 AM
The truth? (I'm refraining from using the obvious Jack Nicholson reference here)

The guy is paranoid...he prbably doesn't even know the truth of the matter himself.

I believe coach didn't want me there," Artest said. "I think he did things to make me tick. Why keep fighting coach, when I have enough problems, when I can go elsewhere and play?"

That's like the abusive spouse that claims your behavior caused them to beat you up. "If you didn't make me so mad I wouldn't have to..."

He is convincing himself of a new truth so that he doesn't have to feel remoarse or be responsible for what happend.
He can't handle the truth.
(man it was like a knot in my stomach, I just had to say it)

What you said above is quite possible, and highly probably, but just remember, there are two sides to every story...

Kaufman
12-15-2005, 08:34 AM
I say let the guy talk. Hear what he has to say.

indygeezer
12-15-2005, 08:40 AM
I say let the guy talk. Hear what he has to say.

Oh I agree, ya gotta hear his words. But his thinking, as evidenced here, is waaaay too familiar to me.

SoupIsGood
12-15-2005, 08:49 AM
The dude is crazy, he got plenty of touches here.

Unclebuck
12-15-2005, 09:29 AM
Here is a better article on the whole J.O. vs Artest thing


http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2005/12/15/for_oneal_artest_relationship_shot?mode=PF

For O'Neal, Artest relationship shot
By Peter May, Globe Staff | December 15, 2005

Jermaine O'Neal feels betrayed. The cocaptain of the Indiana Pacers feels tired. He said that having to deal with the latest, and he hopes last, Ron Artest flap has been ''like a slap in the face" because no one had Artest's back more than he did.

Whether it was tolerating Artest's daily zaniness or coming to his defense in the utter chaos of Nov. 19, 2004, at the Palace of Auburn Hills, ''I was the guy who stood up for him. I was the guy who vouched for him," O'Neal said in a lengthy discourse on Artest's absence and Artest's trade demand prior to last night's 85-71 loss to the Celtics.

''I don't hate him as a person. I wish him the best of luck," O'Neal said. ''I hope he achieves what he wants elsewhere. But as a player who has been there for him and been involved in certain situations with him, and for him, you expect more. But life isn't about getting what you want. Sometimes you have to deal with harder situations. This is harder to accept. I accepted it. I lost a lot. I have stepped up and vouched for him. Ron Artest doesn't matter to me as a teammate."

O'Neal, the Pacers' leading scorer and rebounder (he had 14 points and 10 rebounds last night), and best and highest-paid player, said he has two people in mind who would be more than suitable replacements for Artest: former teammate Al Harrington, now with Atlanta, and Bonzi Wells, now with Sacramento. Artest was not with the Pacers last night and Indiana president Donnie Walsh is fielding calls about him. Something could break today, when most players, such as Wells, who signed deals or were traded over the summer, can be relocated.

Harrington would be a natural, O'Neal surmised, because of his familiarity with the system and the team. Harrington spent the first six years of his career with the Pacers before being traded to the Hawks in the summer of 2004 for Stephen Jackson. And, O'Neal added, ''If it doesn't work out this year, [his salary] comes off the books."

As for Wells, O'Neal said, ''He fits in with what we do. We have a defensive-oriented team. He's a 6-6, 6-7 body who can play two different positions and thinks defense first. You deal [for] a player like that, it's easy for him to fit in, rather than a player who thinks offense first or pass, pass, or [dribbles] between the legs. We're not that type of team. There's been a lot of talk about [Peja] Stojakovic and I would definitely accept him with open arms. But if I had a preference, it would be Al or Bonzi Wells."

What if Artest had a change of heart? What if Artest showed up tomorrow at practice and said he had acted improperly, that he was happy where he was, that he was ready to play tomorrow night against the Jazz, and apologized to everyone? Here's what would happen -- the Pacers would have an angry cocaptain and, as O'Neal sees it, an angry team as well. That would be your proverbial nonstarter.

''It is over," O'Neal said with undisguised finality. ''This relationship cannot be mended. The Pacers' front office cannot ask us to mend this relationship. I won't personally accept them asking me because then we'll have another issue. And it's unfair to the guys who come out.

''This has been going on for a couple days," O'Neal said. Artest's trade request surfaced Sunday in the Indianapolis Star and Walsh said a day later that he would work to accommodate him. ''Nobody has heard from Ron. Players [have] issues with coaches, organizations, all kinds of different situations. So you can never fault a guy for not being happy, for whatever reason. But one thing you always have to do is you have to stay on board with the people on board with you. It can't be about Ron all the time. It can't be about personal issues. You're the second leading scorer and you [want] more shots? I don't understand that. To me, it's so disrespectful to me and my team. That relationship is over. There's no 'I'm going to change my mind.' That can't happen because that is the last straw you can take as a player. Especially in our situation."

No one, O'Neal said, has talked about anything other than Artest over the last 72 hours. In that span of time, the Pacers had not played any games (their previous game had been last Saturday, a home win over Memphis) and, naturally, there was little else to talk about.

''We're coming off two great wins, two of our best wins of the season," O'Neal said, referring to the victories over Memphis and the Wizards. ''We really played as a team. And nobody wants to talk about the game. Nobody is ever talking about what we're doing, all the hard work that guys put in during the summertime, during the season, all the great things they do off the court, all the great things they do on the court, is never, ever known, because we're always talking about something else that isn't basketball-related. As a player, you get tired. You just tire out."

Artest, said O'Neal, has let his personal desires, be they shots, a better contract, or more respect, get in the way of the only thing that should matter: winning.

''Everybody gets the benefits from winning," O'Neal said. ''Ultimately, you play this game to win, and that's all it should be about. It shouldn't be about shots. It shouldn't be about contracts. Because if you win, you're going to get exactly what you're looking for. That's the nature of the game and I don't quite know if [Artest] understands that."

Stryder
12-15-2005, 09:57 AM
Here is a better article on the whole J.O. vs Artest thing


http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2005/12/15/for_oneal_artest_relationship_shot?mode=PF

For O'Neal, Artest relationship shot
By Peter May, Globe Staff | December 15, 2005

Jermaine O'Neal feels betrayed. The cocaptain of the Indiana Pacers feels tired. He said that having to deal with the latest, and he hopes last, Ron Artest flap has been ''like a slap in the face" because no one had Artest's back more than he did.

Whether it was tolerating Artest's daily zaniness or coming to his defense in the utter chaos of Nov. 19, 2004, at the Palace of Auburn Hills, ''I was the guy who stood up for him. I was the guy who vouched for him," O'Neal said in a lengthy discourse on Artest's absence and Artest's trade demand prior to last night's 85-71 loss to the Celtics.

''I don't hate him as a person. I wish him the best of luck," O'Neal said. ''I hope he achieves what he wants elsewhere. But as a player who has been there for him and been involved in certain situations with him, and for him, you expect more. But life isn't about getting what you want. Sometimes you have to deal with harder situations. This is harder to accept. I accepted it. I lost a lot. I have stepped up and vouched for him. Ron Artest doesn't matter to me as a teammate."

O'Neal, the Pacers' leading scorer and rebounder (he had 14 points and 10 rebounds last night), and best and highest-paid player, said he has two people in mind who would be more than suitable replacements for Artest: former teammate Al Harrington, now with Atlanta, and Bonzi Wells, now with Sacramento. Artest was not with the Pacers last night and Indiana president Donnie Walsh is fielding calls about him. Something could break today, when most players, such as Wells, who signed deals or were traded over the summer, can be relocated.

Harrington would be a natural, O'Neal surmised, because of his familiarity with the system and the team. Harrington spent the first six years of his career with the Pacers before being traded to the Hawks in the summer of 2004 for Stephen Jackson. And, O'Neal added, ''If it doesn't work out this year, [his salary] comes off the books."

As for Wells, O'Neal said, ''He fits in with what we do. We have a defensive-oriented team. He's a 6-6, 6-7 body who can play two different positions and thinks defense first. You deal [for] a player like that, it's easy for him to fit in, rather than a player who thinks offense first or pass, pass, or [dribbles] between the legs. We're not that type of team. There's been a lot of talk about [Peja] Stojakovic and I would definitely accept him with open arms. But if I had a preference, it would be Al or Bonzi Wells."

What if Artest had a change of heart? What if Artest showed up tomorrow at practice and said he had acted improperly, that he was happy where he was, that he was ready to play tomorrow night against the Jazz, and apologized to everyone? Here's what would happen -- the Pacers would have an angry cocaptain and, as O'Neal sees it, an angry team as well. That would be your proverbial nonstarter.

''It is over," O'Neal said with undisguised finality. ''This relationship cannot be mended. The Pacers' front office cannot ask us to mend this relationship. I won't personally accept them asking me because then we'll have another issue. And it's unfair to the guys who come out.

''This has been going on for a couple days," O'Neal said. Artest's trade request surfaced Sunday in the Indianapolis Star and Walsh said a day later that he would work to accommodate him. ''Nobody has heard from Ron. Players [have] issues with coaches, organizations, all kinds of different situations. So you can never fault a guy for not being happy, for whatever reason. But one thing you always have to do is you have to stay on board with the people on board with you. It can't be about Ron all the time. It can't be about personal issues. You're the second leading scorer and you [want] more shots? I don't understand that. To me, it's so disrespectful to me and my team. That relationship is over. There's no 'I'm going to change my mind.' That can't happen because that is the last straw you can take as a player. Especially in our situation."

No one, O'Neal said, has talked about anything other than Artest over the last 72 hours. In that span of time, the Pacers had not played any games (their previous game had been last Saturday, a home win over Memphis) and, naturally, there was little else to talk about.

''We're coming off two great wins, two of our best wins of the season," O'Neal said, referring to the victories over Memphis and the Wizards. ''We really played as a team. And nobody wants to talk about the game. Nobody is ever talking about what we're doing, all the hard work that guys put in during the summertime, during the season, all the great things they do off the court, all the great things they do on the court, is never, ever known, because we're always talking about something else that isn't basketball-related. As a player, you get tired. You just tire out."

Artest, said O'Neal, has let his personal desires, be they shots, a better contract, or more respect, get in the way of the only thing that should matter: winning.

''Everybody gets the benefits from winning," O'Neal said. ''Ultimately, you play this game to win, and that's all it should be about. It shouldn't be about shots. It shouldn't be about contracts. Because if you win, you're going to get exactly what you're looking for. That's the nature of the game and I don't quite know if [Artest] understands that."

Very candid and good article. I am liking JO more and more.

MagicRat
12-15-2005, 09:59 AM
I like JO too, but I'd tell him to put a sock in it for a while.......

Evan_The_Dude
12-15-2005, 10:05 AM
Sounds like he got touches that he wasn't supposed to get. Maybe he was supposed to be running through the offense and instead was shooting. As result Carlisle was getting on him telling him to pass instead of playing 1 on 1. (maybe thats why he's upset???) Maybe he feels that with all the defense he provides, that he deserves to have an offensive play called for him more often. ???

I can sort of understand that, but he's going about it the wrong way. But then seeing that he wants to play for the Knicks (and Larry Brown) tells me there's more to it than Carlisle.

Slick Pinkham
12-15-2005, 10:12 AM
If Ron said the sky was blue, I'd still check it to make sure.

He needs some medications.

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 10:26 AM
Let him talk, we finally get to hear the truth about what is wrong inside teh team, instead of us pointing fingers and making stuff up.

Nobody thought Artest situation was at bad as it was. It was all Tinsley this and Tinsley that.

Bullsh*!!!

Plenty here have thought he was the problem for 2 years now!

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 10:27 AM
I say let the guy talk. Hear what he has to say.

Yeh,but you thought Andy was lucid too...........................

PacerMan
12-15-2005, 10:28 AM
My respect for Carlisle grows..............

Harmonica
12-15-2005, 10:36 AM
I like JO, too, but I'd tell him to put a sock in it for a while.......

Exactly. Both Ron and Jermaine need to STFU.

Will Galen
12-15-2005, 10:45 AM
:scream: RON STOP TALKING!!! (

Actually, the more he talks the more he contradicts himself. Anyone with half a brain is going to come to the conclusion that you can't pay any attention to what Ron says.

McKeyFan
12-15-2005, 11:03 AM
JO says some things that make me like him, and some things that I don't like. Kinda like his game.

You can admire him for backing Ron, for understanding that the perks come if you win, not vice-versa. But he is breaking his own rule by talking about who he wants on the team, etc, etc. Shut up and let management handle that. Talk to TPTB directly, not to the media.

Also, his comment about Ron being the second leading scorer and still wanting more touches. "I just don't understand that." Of course not. You're the first option.

Personally, I would like to have seen a Pacer team with Ron as the first option. Politically, that was never going to happen, thus Ron's frustration. I think it was a bad strategic decision to make JO the first option. I think it was wrong for Ron to speak out. I think its wrong for JO to talk about trade possibilities. There's a lot of wrong to dish out in Pacerland right now.

Shade
12-15-2005, 11:25 AM
Ron is still an idiot for the way he handled things. "True warrior" my ***.

Pacesetter
12-15-2005, 05:15 PM
"I've been through a lot with him," O'Neal said. "I was one of the guys that went to bat for him. For him to talk about another team and other players while he's still on this team, it was disrespectful not only to me, but to the rest of the guys. I don't wish any bad things on Ron. I wish Ron still goes out and accomplishes his goals. It's just a painful thing when you went through what we went through. The money I lost while I was out was extremely high. Now it's like, what was it for?"


It's so crazy that JO said this in the paper today, because I thought about this very subject all night last night and the better part of the day today.

How in the world could Ron do this to the guys who went to bat for him.

:mad:

I feel terrible for Jermaine, and all the other guys who had their names tarnished for this guy, but especially for JO. Ron used the Pacers to get back into this season. I think that's why we didn't hear anything from him much throughout last season and the beginning of this season. That's why he was being so cool headed, imo. He just wanted to be reinstated and the Pacers were his ride. Now that he perceives the coast is clear he's ready to leave. He got what he wanted and that was to avoid being banned. Think about it ... Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh went to bat for him, and not too mention Coach Carlisle. If they would have said ban this guy he's a raving lunatic, the NBA would have pursued a lifetime ban on Artest.

:mad:

stipo
12-15-2005, 05:25 PM
Actually, the more he talks the more he contradicts himself. Anyone with half a brain is going to come to the conclusion that you can't pay any attention to what Ron says.

EXACTLY!!! Everyone knows the guy contradicts himself constantly, so you really can't take ANYTHING he says seriously. But the next time he says something stupid, everyone willSTILL be surprised! THIS IS RON ARTEST THE HUMAN CONTRADICTION!! DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING HE SAYS SERIOUSLY!!
It's, it's like some kind of performance art or something. Maybe it's like Andy Kaufman and he's living his life as some crazy character just to see how much he can screw with our minds!

Since86
12-15-2005, 05:35 PM
Bullsh*!!!

Plenty here have thought he was the problem for 2 years now!


He's showing the other problems with the team. That's what Tim is getting at. Not one single sane person can say that the Pacer's only problem revolved around Ron.

denyfizle
12-15-2005, 05:39 PM
the situation was still handled poorly by Ron but I m beginning to understand better why he wanted out. I myself am not a big fan of RCs system. And the Pistons hated it too then. So I don't know but I still believe Ron couldve handled it way better and the only real reason for him to react that way is that he really wants out of Indy that bad. not just from the RC angle but ever since.