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View Full Version : Pacers better get some inside scoring for Artest



Unclebuck
12-14-2005, 10:12 PM
Seems to me that everyone is wanting a defensive player for Artrest. Well, I love defensive players as muchor more than anyone. But there aren't any players like Artest (great on both ends) available, so I hope the Pacers look for an inside scorer or a penetrating scoring.

Hopefully someone who can get to the free throw line a lot. Someone who can stop the opponents streaks. Someone who can score when the other teams defense steps up, late in games, in tough playoff games.

Yes I know I'm asking for a lot. But a good spot up shooter is not going to be enough. A one demensional player is not going to get the job done either.

Perhaps I''m asking too much.

Pacers#1Fan
12-14-2005, 10:14 PM
Manu would be nice but it's never going to happen.

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 10:16 PM
We need more dribble penetration.

Manu is exactly the kind of player we need, someone who is creative but also unselfish, and a decent shot. Can the basketball gods hand us Manu part two somehow.

Brian
12-14-2005, 10:18 PM
Ya know..Ive been thinking...lets just say that bender does indeed retire,Didnt Tim Thomas say he wanted to play for us?,I know everyone is down on Tim but at least he could play,unlike bender.

And with whoever we get for artest...We still could be a title contender.

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 10:18 PM
I don't think TT would really help us.

Shade
12-14-2005, 10:23 PM
Can we get rid of Jack in the deal?

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 10:24 PM
Can we get rid of Jack in the deal?

Sadly I'm starting to think this too. Fred Jones too, if only because I think AJ is a better SG than him anyway.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:25 PM
reggie evans, ronald murray....not fortson

Unclebuck
12-14-2005, 10:26 PM
Can we get rid of Jack in the deal?



I was thinking tonight. Jax is not good enough to the second scoring option on a championship contender. And he cannot get into a groove being the 3rd option.

DW and LB better be very creative

Shade
12-14-2005, 10:27 PM
I was thinking tonight. Jax is not goof enough to the second scoring option on a championship contender. And he cannot get into a groove being the 3rd option.

DW and LB better be very creative

Yeah, that's sadly what it comes down to. I wonder if a package deal of Ron, Jack, Polly, and/or Bender could bring us a very good SG and a back-up SF.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:27 PM
I was thinking tonight. Jax is not goof enough to the second scoring option on a championship contender. And he cannot get into a groove being the 3rd option.

DW and LB better be very creative

Agreed..

As in which we would probably need a three team deal.
may be diffcult to send Jax and Artest to the same team

Jermaniac
12-14-2005, 10:29 PM
Al Harrington can score in the post. Get him.

Ryan
12-14-2005, 10:29 PM
I don't care what you have to give up (minus JO and Sarunas). Paul Pierce is the answer.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:31 PM
I don't care what you have to give up (minus JO and Sarunas). Paul Pierce is the answer.


Wouldn't he have to be the number one option though ?

Will Galen
12-14-2005, 10:32 PM
I was thinking tonight. Jax is not goof enough to the second scoring option on a championship contender. And he cannot get into a groove being the 3rd option.

DW and LB better be very creative

I think he's too much of a goof.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:33 PM
I think he's too much of a goof.

Shoot if Goofy can rebound and post up.. I will take him...

sweabs
12-14-2005, 11:15 PM
Unclebuck brought up the most important point in this thread: Stephen Jackson is not a second option on a championship team. Enough said.

Not only do TPTB have to listen to incoming offers for Artest, but they need to be on the lookout for that secondary option. A legit threat that can be called upon in times of need; because when JO has nights like did tonight (which are bound to happen again), we need someone to go to.

So, as I was saying, not only should we be listening to offers, but we need to see what kind of value Ron has, and work from there. I hope that Donnie and Larry are not taking a laissez-faire approach to this all, and just listening to offers. They need to hear them out, get a grasp on Ron's value, and then start looking for their own trade. One that includes some of our depth if needed - because we need someone else right now.

So, if a team is offering a pretty nice deal for Artest as is, I hope that we "up-the-ante", and ask for a little more "if we include _______". If we get a guy to simply plug into Artest's spot for the sake of having someone there, it's not going to work. We need someone who can take over in that position - and if it requires getting rid of Jackson or Tinsley at this point, I'm all for it.

Unclebuck
12-14-2005, 11:16 PM
Unclebuck brought up the most important point in this thread: Stephen Jackson is not a second option on a championship team. Enough said.

Not only do TPTB have to listen to incoming offers for Artest, but they need to be on the lookout for that secondary option. A legit threat that can be called upon in times of need; because when JO has nights like did tonight (which are bound to happen again), we need someone to go to.

So, as I was saying, not only should we be listening to offers, but we need to see what kind of value Ron has, and work from there. I hope that Donnie and Larry are not taking a laissez-faire approach to this all, and just listening to offers. They need to hear them out, get a grasp on Ron's value, and then start looking for their own trade. One that includes some of our depth if needed - because we need someone else right now.

So, if a team is offering a pretty nice deal for Artest as is, I hope that we "up-the-ante", and ask for a little more "if we include _______". If we get a guy to simply plug into Artest's spot for the sake of having someone there, it's not going to work. We need someone who can take over in that position - and if it requires getting rid of Jackson or Tinsley at this point, I'm all for it.


I agree 10000000%

Gamble
12-14-2005, 11:26 PM
Jax and Artest hopefully won't happen. To me Jax just needs things to
settle down on the team. To much is probably going through his head
right now with all the adjustments and line up changes. Once the
trade happens barring he isn't in it I expect his game to be more dependable.

Jose Slaughter
12-14-2005, 11:26 PM
Exactly.

This is the perfect time to revamp the roster. We have the ear of every GM in the league & this won't end with just an Artest trade. The players we get back with trigger a second deal that will put the team back on track.

As a matter of fact the first deal could be delayed for a day or two until the follow up trade is arranged.

This team is going to be fun to watch again & in very short order.

Jermaniac
12-14-2005, 11:28 PM
This team wont be fun to watch until Rick Carlisle either changes his style or gets fired. If I wasnt a Pacers fan I would never put my self through the agony of watching this team play. We can get Steve Nash on this team and Rick wouldnt let us run.

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 11:35 PM
Since we are getting rid of Artest, I want us to go the whole nine yards and get some players with good offensive instincts. I saw a glimpse of what we could have in the game vs. Memphis, and I'm hooked now. I want guys that make good, quick decisions with the ball. Shoot, pass, drive, whatever, but do it quick and share the ball.

Croshere and Foster are actually pretty great at this for big men. Jermaine has improved at it. Granger has it, Saras has it. AJ can do it, if he's playing off the ball. Jackson simply can't do it. Fred does at times, but mostly doesn't.

For some reason, we get away from this type of offense when Tinsley plays, although I'm not sure it's his fault.

I want some more smart bball players. :D Lets make the switch right now, since big changes are coming anyhow.

Diesel_81
12-14-2005, 11:36 PM
Unclebuck brought up the most important point in this thread: Stephen Jackson is not a second option on a championship team. Enough said.




I think we all knew he wasn't a good second option on a championship contender and we now know he's not a 3rd option either on a championship caliber team because he needs so many shots to get his points.


Guys I have a feeling we are about to see this team blow up. I would not be surprised to see a Jamal Tinsley, Steven Jackson , David Harrison or Freddie Jones involved in any deal that includes Ron Artest.If there not shipped with Artest then I expect at least 3 of them to be on different teams before the trade deadline. In a sense I think were in rebuilding mode again.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 11:42 PM
In a sense I think were in rebuilding mode again.

Interesting point. I see it as a chance to rebuild, without really rebuilding.

If that makes any sense?

Like I said, a chance. It's up to Larry and Donnie to have the final say on whether they follow through or not.

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 11:49 PM
I feel like we are rebuilding on the run, which is what the good teams do.... well the teams that make the playoffs a lot anyway. The teams with the superstars and the rings normally had to tank to get those superstars.

Diesel_81
12-14-2005, 11:52 PM
I kind of felt like that was what we were doing with the Jalen trade, re-building without re-building.

That trade was good short term, but not so good long term.

Maybe we can have better luck the second go around.........

Thats actually what I had in mind when I said rebuilding. I don't think we'll be in the lottery. I just think with the players we'll get back it will probably take us a couple years to get back to championship caliber again.

Slick Pinkham
12-15-2005, 08:36 AM
Inside scoring/low post moves, good enough to occasionally draw a double-team or otherwise create some havoc:

Peja-no
Al-yes definitely
Odom- yes
MoPete-not really
Bonzi-yes
Stromile Swift- sort of
Dunleavy- no
Diogu- maybe
Dalembert- not really
Marbury-no
Richard Jefferson-no



If that's the main criteria then Al may be the best fit.

Strany
12-15-2005, 09:31 AM
I think we all knew he wasn't a good second option on a championship contender and we now know he's not a 3rd option either on a championship caliber team because he needs so many shots to get his points.


Guys I have a feeling we are about to see this team blow up. I would not be surprised to see a Jamal Tinsley, Steven Jackson , David Harrison or Freddie Jones involved in any deal that includes Ron Artest.If there not shipped with Artest then I expect at least 3 of them to be on different teams before the trade deadline. In a sense I think were in rebuilding mode again.


If the trade is for youth, Donnie/Larry have given up championship hopes.
Otherwise you would fill in a veteran to help us get back to that level.
I do not think we are anywhere close to a championship team right now
and that between now and End of Summer we will be looking at a completly different team. Jack/Tins/DH are for sure going, Pollard will be gone as a FA.

Question becomes do you want to once again try to build a team around JO?
or do you completly start over.

ChicagoJ
12-15-2005, 10:16 AM
I don't think we're rebuilding.

Maybe re-stocking, but rebuilding would imply that we're going to trade all of these guys for lottery picks or projects.

If these other guys are involved, we'll get pieces that are *at least* ready to play and *should* fit together nicely.

This is like a puzzle, and since you can't trade Ron for a puzzle piece shaped just like Ron, its going to take a creative solution.


Jermaniac - I've got to agree solidly with your point as well. The outcome of this trade/ these trades is that this may no longer be a good match with Rick (it probably wasn't a good match with Rick in the first place).

With Ron, our "window" was never really this season anyway. Now, once these moves are made, we need to be thinking of making a deep playoff run next season, not having the best possible record in January 2006. So we need a coach that's willing to live with some rough spots while the young players we've got develop. (And we're going to need the same attitude from our fans - none of us 'get rid of Ron' advocates promised that it would be a smooth transition, just that it would be better in the long run.

Bball
12-15-2005, 10:45 AM
Jermaniac - I've got to agree solidly with your point as well. The outcome of this trade/ these trades is that this may no longer be a good match with Rick (it probably wasn't a good match with Rick in the first place).

With Ron, our "window" was never really this season anyway. Now, once these moves are made, we need to be thinking of making a deep playoff run next season, not having the best possible record in January 2006. So we need a coach that's willing to live with some rough spots while the young players we've got develop. (And we're going to need the same attitude from our fans - none of us 'get rid of Ron' advocates promised that it would be a smooth transition, just that it would be better in the long run.

Of course a key may be management telling Carlisle what is expected (and more importantly, what is not expected).

Last year was about winning each game to keep the team in contention for the fans (IMHO) and nothing else. No thought about the future at all. This year was to be 'the future'. We'd tread water, apply band-aids, win for Reggie as best we could, and just get the thing thru the season and be ready to aim for this season (which was simply last season delayed).

But if management decides we are at all in a rebuilding mode then IF they tell Carlisle they don't care as much about wins 'this year' as developing young talent for next year, could he do it? Would the existing players fall in line?

Or is Carlisle never the right coach for developing young talent or seeing potential?

-Bball

Slick Pinkham
12-26-2005, 11:29 PM
The topic of this thread was never more obvious than tonight.

Oh, and somebody who can block out and get a freakin' defensive board.

Will Galen
12-27-2005, 12:51 AM
Magette gets to the line a lot. So does Pierce.

CableKC
12-27-2005, 02:54 AM
Assuming that we want to clear salary....as someone said before....the intent was not as much to make space to sign a free agent...but to resign players that we would want to keep....such as Granger.

Other then him...who are we looking to resign? Freddie is the only one that I can think of....and I don't think that they are going to resign him for the money that he is likely to command or demand.

CableKC
12-27-2005, 02:58 AM
Magette gets to the line a lot. So does Pierce.
Yes....but Maggette is also injury prone.....the guy has a tendency to get injured in some way.

I don't doubt his skills....but I really want a guy that isn't going to miss an average of 16 games a season.

GetOdom
12-27-2005, 02:59 AM
If we need a Inside scorer then we must hope for Al.