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View Full Version : Toronto /Pacer rumor courtest of Blahzay (RATS)



Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 05:30 PM
I just heard that there are serious talks between the Pacers and Toronto that would send Artest and the rights to last years pick Ezarem Lorbek to the Raptors.

In exchange Indy would recieve Morris Peterson and another player as yet un-named but most likely Matt Bonner plus the Raptors 2006 1st round pick.

Again, not going to say where I heard it but same deal as my Saras info, take it for what it's worth.

http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129667

Take it for what it's worth..

Shade
12-14-2005, 05:31 PM
:unimpress

317Kim
12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
:hmm: Still thinkin about.

Thatd be niiiice...man 06!? darn...I was hopin 07 :D

Hoop
12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Not a MoPete fan at all, but the Raptors #1 would be great!

blanket
12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
MoPete and a high lottery pick? I'll bite.

scar
12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
The 2006 pick? The one that very well could be a number 1 pick?

Hoop
12-14-2005, 05:34 PM
BOSH! OH GOD WE HAVE TO AT LEAST GET BOSH, VILLENUEVA, AND GRAHAM FOR ARTEST OR I'LL JUST DIE!:deadhorse

Shade
12-14-2005, 05:34 PM
Wait...I just assumed that pick was lottery protected. If not, that could be a good deal. Hmm... :chin:

Slick Pinkham
12-14-2005, 05:34 PM
I don't know which is more appealing, the high lottery pick or the knowledge that Ron would be playing for the Raptors!

:)

Hicks
12-14-2005, 05:34 PM
I believe Blahzay (or more specifically his source) called us landing Sarunas before ESPN announced it, btw.

I'd be happy with this. Nothing outstanding, but at the same time I don't feel violated.

Pacers#1Fan
12-14-2005, 05:35 PM
That draft pick sounds great.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 05:38 PM
I think that's a very good deal for only Artest.

But as btown already noted, there must be some mistake. I thought for sure we'd be getting Bosh in any deal with Toronto!?! Maybe we have to add Samaki Walker because they would like how tall he is?

scar
12-14-2005, 05:38 PM
This could result in maybe Adam Morrison. Hmmmm...

Kegboy
12-14-2005, 05:39 PM
Can't we just trade Ron for Toronto's 2007 pick unprotected? :pray:

http://www.gregoden.com/images/greg-oden-06.jpg

:drooling:

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 05:40 PM
This could result in maybe Adam Morrison. Hmmmm...

dont tease me... I love his hair.. I mean game :blush:

No really he has got skills and clutchness...

sweabs
12-14-2005, 05:41 PM
The more I think about it, the more sense this deal actually makes. A lot of sense.

Babcock was in the media the other day mentioning how he would throw picks around to get some players.

317Kim
12-14-2005, 05:43 PM
I've watched Adam play many times and he's :2tup: the game vs Michigan State, he showed he was pretty clutch.

Kegboy
12-14-2005, 05:44 PM
The more I think about it, the more sense this deal actually makes. A lot of sense.

Babcock was in the media the other day mentioning how he would throw picks around to get some players.

Question for you R. Who's running that organization. I would not be happy that Babcock was mortgaging my team's future in a futile attempt to save his job.

Shade
12-14-2005, 05:45 PM
The trade works salary-wise, and Bonner can be traded starting tomorrow.

Hmm... :chin:

I could live with this deal. It would fun having a Top 3 pick next year as well. :)

I haven't really watched much of Bonner, but I heard he's Cro-esque. Is he better or worse?

RSmits
12-14-2005, 05:46 PM
Mo Pete is Bender's second cousin, for what it's worth.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 05:48 PM
It is actually pretty scary how much sense this would make.

We get a solid SG/SF to plug into the rotation, and what should be a Top 5 pick (if the pick is actually Toronto's unprotected). This will likely be a very weak draft, but that should get a good player nonetheless.

Plus, we ship Ron to Toronto. Which would be too perfect.

Exactly my thoughts.... the fact that Lorbek is included certainly helps verify its possible legitmacy. How many people would actually take the time to even think about him.

Plus it's pretty realistic...I am not blown away, but I am satisified .if that's the case...

sweabs
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
Question for you R. Who's running that organization. I would not be happy that Babcock was mortgaging my team's future in a futile attempt to save his job.

It is Babcock first and foremost. He definitely has the most say in any decision, and takes full responsibility for any moves/picks/signings he has done up to this point. He is at the helm, and his word goes.

His right-hand man is Wayne Embry, but the two of them see eye-to-eye on everything.

Either way, Babcock's contract is coming to an end within the next year. I know there are a lot of people at this point who would be willing to just let him go, but I could see him taking the risk on Artest to prove that "he's worthy".

And for the reasons btown pointed out, among others this deal just makes a lot of sense from both sides.

Babcock seems to have this stereotypical view of Canadians as wanting all their guys to be "rock-solid, aggressive, hockey players" pretty much. That was why he took Rafael Araujo (or part of the reason). I betcha he thinks Ron would instantly gain the crowd's respect in Toronto and bring out some more fans.

Along with that, I bet you anything that Sam Mitchell wants Ron Artest. I guarantee that.

Bball
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
It is actually pretty scary how much sense this would make.

We get a solid SG/SF to plug into the rotation, and what should be a Top 5 pick (if the pick is actually Toronto's unprotected). This will likely be a very weak draft, but that should get a good player nonetheless.

Plus, we ship Ron to Toronto. Which would be too perfect.

No. More. Top. 5. Picks. From. Toronto.

Please... for the love of God...

Let the wound heal and the memories be forgotten.



-Bball

Shade
12-14-2005, 05:53 PM
The Raps fans on RealGM say they don't own the rights to their 1st 1st round pick next year. :confused:

Hicks
12-14-2005, 05:54 PM
Do the Raptors have more than 1 first round pick in 2006? That would help to clear up the question of whether or not we're getting a lottery pick.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 05:54 PM
I haven't really watched much of Bonner, but I heard he's Cro-esque. Is he better or worse?

Top 3 shooter in the league - bar none. Just an amazing spot-up shooter. He's one of those guys that, as soon as he starts his shooting approach, you fully expect the ball to go in.

Outside of spot-up shooting, you can't really depend on this guy for much. He's not a good defender, and can't create his own shot worth a damn. He's just an amazing, amazing shooter.

He also works his tail off every night, and gets you some offensive rebounds and hustle plays that don't show up on the box score. He has that Foster-mentality about him.

That goes along with character - and you can't ask for better character than what Mo Pete and Bonner bring to the table.

Kegboy
12-14-2005, 05:55 PM
It is Babcock first and foremost. He definitely has the most say in any decision, and takes full responsibility for any moves/picks/signings he has done up to this point. He is at the helm, and his word goes.

His right-hand man is Wayne Embry, but the two of them see eye-to-eye on everything.

Either way, Babcock's contract is coming to an end within the next year. I know there are a lot of people at this point who would be willing to just let him go, but I could see him taking the risk on Artest to prove that "he's worthy".

And for the reasons btown pointed out, among others this deal just makes a lot of sense from both sides.

Babcock seems to have this stereotypical view of Canadians as wanting all their guys to be "rock-solid, aggressive, hockey players" pretty much. That was why he took Rafael Araujo (or part of the reason). I betcha he thinks Ron would instantly gain the crowd's respect in Toronto and bring out some more fans.

Along with that, I bet you anything that Sam Mitchell wants Ron Artest. I guarantee that.

I actually meant ownership wise. Somebody's asleep at the wheel there.

You're right, Sam would love Ronnie.

RSmits
12-14-2005, 05:55 PM
Can someone describe Mo Pete's game, I'm afraid I havent paid much attention to him since he was a Mich St. Is he a good defender? Is he just a typical streaky 6'7 atheltic small forward? Attitude?

sweabs
12-14-2005, 05:56 PM
I actually meant ownership wise. Somebody's asleep at the wheel there.

You're right, Sam would love Ronnie.

Oh, you mean Richard Peddie.

He doesn't care about basketball.

He's a Leafs man 24/7.

Since86
12-14-2005, 05:58 PM
Do the Raptors have more than 1 first round pick in 2006? That would help to clear up the question of whether or not we're getting a lottery pick.


If they're pick is out of the top 16, then Charlette gets it.

Shade
12-14-2005, 05:58 PM
Do the Raptors have more than 1 first round pick in 2006? That would help to clear up the question of whether or not we're getting a lottery pick.

Apparently, they have a 1st rounder from Denver.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 06:00 PM
Can someone describe Mo Pete's game, I'm afraid I havent paid much attention to him since he was a Mich St. Is he a good defender? Is he just a typical streaky 6'7 atheltic small forward? Attitude?

Great attitude. There is nothing to worry about in that department. The dude put up with Vince for several years, after all.

Is he a good defender? I'd say he's good. Nothing spectacular, but he works hard on the defensive end. He is one of the best at taking charges for sure, and he has relatively quick feet so he can play some pretty good 1-on-1 defense. He's also good at pulling the chair on people. I think he's good, but no one will ever compare to Ronnie. Another benefit is that he's 6'7, which is not small by any means.

He can run off screens very well. This is the part of his game which has impressed me most from this year. Sam has a couple plays where Araujo or Bosh set the screen underneath the basket, and Mo Pete curls up for that 15-20 foot jumper and it's a great shot every time.

Spot up shooting beyond 3point land (especially the corner/pocket 3) = money!!! Very good shooter - he just has excellent form. He's not that bad at creating either (dribble and pull-up).

Mo Pete can also be a very good slasher when called upon to do so. I have never seen a player hit so many crazy shots around the basket outside of Dwyane Wade perhaps. If coach just keeps on him to slash, he will do it, and can do it effectively.

Clutch - Mo Pete is very clutch.

Will Galen
12-14-2005, 06:01 PM
I believe Blahzay (or more specifically his source) called us landing Sarunas before ESPN announced it, btw.

I'd be happy with this. Nothing outstanding, but at the same time I don't feel violated.

I believe Blahzay says it's not the same source. Post#24, http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129667

Quote} "I know Foretaz. No worries, I hear ya, you know I just like to share decent info when I hear it. I'll never call it concrete, especially in this case. With the Saras call I was much, much closer to the source than in this case but when I heard this one it sounded legit and the guy that told me is pretty close to a couple of people in the Raps org., that I know for sure so I thought I'd put it out here."

Since86
12-14-2005, 06:02 PM
Also, Rudy Gay is slotted at #4 in mockdrafts. That's actually after the Tor. pick, and he has serious upside.

Bball
12-14-2005, 06:04 PM
We talk... and Ron waits...

http://www.nba.com/media/artest_410_051210.jpg

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 06:06 PM
Apparently, they have a 1st rounder from Denver.
Shade is correct


Toronto receives a 2006 Denver Nuggets first-round pick (Vince Carter trade 121704) Via New Jersey. [New Jersey Nets receives a 2006 Denver first-round pick (Kenyon Martin 071504)

Will Galen
12-14-2005, 06:08 PM
Do the Raptors have more than 1 first round pick in 2006? That would help to clear up the question of whether or not we're getting a lottery pick.

From RealGM http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php

Raptors draft picks

2005 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Toronto is owed a future first-round pick by the Philadelphia 76ers. Top-8 protected in 2005, top-5 protected in 2006, unprotected in 2007. If Toronto has to wait until 2007 to receive the pick, they also get Philadelphia's second-round picks in 2008 and 2009. This pick was originally traded to Denver as part of the James Posey three-way deal. 12/18/2002. Denver later traded this pick to New Jersey as part of the Kenyon Martin deal. 7/15/2004. New Jersey traded this pick to Toronto as part of the Vince Carter trade. 12/17/04.


2006 first round draft pick from Denver
Toronto is owed a future first-round pick from Denver. Top-5 protected in 2006, top-2 protected in 2007, unprotected in 2008. This pick was originally traded to New Jersey in the Kenyon Martin deal. 6/15/2004. New Jersey traded this pick to Toronto as part of the Vince Carter trade. 12/17/04.

Debits

2005 first round draft pick to Charlotte
Charlotte is owed a future first-round pick from Toronto. In 2005 it is top-17 protected. Thereafter, it is reportedly top-14 protected through 2008 and unprotected in 2009. This pick was first traded on 9/25/02 to Cleveland in the Lamond Murray deal and then to Charlotte for Alexsander Pavolovic. 6/23/2004


2005 second round draft pick to Orlando
Orlando has the option to swap second-round picks with Toronto in 2005. Orlando obtained this right as part of the Robert Archibald deal.1/2/2004

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 06:12 PM
ok..


Toronto owns it's 2006 first round pick if that pick isn't higher than 16th, otherwise it is transferred to Charlotte via Cleveland from the Lamond Murray for Michael Stewart trade. Toronto's pick is top-15 protected in 2007, top-14 (lottery) protected in 2008, and unprotected in 2009.

- Toronto owns Denver's 2006 first round pick if that pick isn't better than 6th overall, otherwise it is retained by Denver. The pick is top-2 protected in 2007, meaning that Toronto gets it unless it is first or second overall. The pick is unprotected for 2008.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=193970

Shade
12-14-2005, 06:15 PM
Even the Raps fans are a bit confused about their draft pick status. :laugh:

From what I can tell, Charlotte owns the rights to the Raptors' 1st round pick next year IF Toronto makes the playoffs, and that restriction decreases with each subsequent passing year (Top 16 protected first year, lottery-protected the second year, etc.). However, that really complicates things if the Raps trade us the pick then make the playoffs ( :laugh: ), as Charlotte would own the pick. Or, at least, that's what I'm reading. :disturbed

My head hurts. :headache:

RSmits
12-14-2005, 06:16 PM
So how can the Raptors say they have two picks when it's virtually guaranteed that their own pick is going to Charlotte?

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 06:21 PM
So how can the Raptors say they have two picks when it's virtually guaranteed that their own pick is going to Charlotte?

If you think Toronto's making the playoffs this season then let's talk real estate. ;)

Slick Pinkham
12-14-2005, 06:21 PM
So how can the Raptors say they have two picks when it's virtually guaranteed that their own pick is going to Charlotte?

Toronto owns its own pick if they are in the lottery (top 14 protected), if Wil's real gm info is right.

That's a lock.

there may be hope

GO!!!!!
12-14-2005, 06:23 PM
I doubt a trade will happen with Toronto, and i'm no fan of Mo, he's a bit of a cancer by all accounts, if we get Egg Head Villy and a draft pick, then I'll be happy


but i doubt any trade will happen with them, what was there responce after the Tony Davis trade.....

Warriors, Sixers, Hawks, Maybe the Clippers & Wild Card Mavs are my front runners...

I really like the Mavs might make a play, after there failed Christie incident, they have a couple attractive swingman DW might be intrested in

A Danials/Howard and Mbenga trade seems to work for both parties

Los Angeles
12-14-2005, 06:24 PM
Toronto owns its own pick if they are in the lottery (top 14 protected), if Wil's real gm info is right.

That's a lock.

there may be hope
And if Artest gets them to the playoffs, it will be adding insult to injury.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 06:26 PM
I doubt a trade will happen with Toronto, and i'm no fan of Mo, he's a bit of a cancer by all accounts

Please explain. Because I see him as the EXACT opposite.


if we get Egg Head Villy and a draft pick, then I'll be happy

Why stop at Villanueva? What about Bosh!!!!!!!!!!!!

RSmits
12-14-2005, 06:26 PM
According to earlier posts, Toronto owns the pick if it IS NOT higher than 16th.

Since it is going to be higher than 16th, they don't own it.

That's what I was basing it on. Now Real GM is saying it is top-17 protected, which is a big difference obviously.

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 06:27 PM
Top 3 shooter in the league - bar none. Just an amazing spot-up shooter. He's one of those guys that, as soon as he starts his shooting approach, you fully expect the ball to go in.

Outside of spot-up shooting, you can't really depend on this guy for much. He's not a good defender, and can't create his own shot worth a damn. He's just an amazing, amazing shooter.

He also works his tail off every night, and gets you some offensive rebounds and hustle plays that don't show up on the box score. He has that Foster-mentality about him.

That goes along with character - and you can't ask for better character than what Mo Pete and Bonner bring to the table.
Dude, honestly, would you do some research before you post things like this? Matt Bonner is a 35.6% 3 point shooter, If that's the "tops" in the league then "the league" must be the Red Headed Guys Who Play In The NBA Association.
Yes, he's a better shooter then Brian Scalabrine, I'll give you that, But he's not even top-30 of 3 point shooters.

sweabs
12-14-2005, 06:31 PM
Dude, honestly, would you do some research before you post things like this? Matt Bonner is a 35.6% 3 point shooter, If that's the "tops" in the league then "the league" must be the Red Headed Guys Who Play In The NBA Association.
Yes, he's a better shooter then Brian Scalabrine, I'll give you that, But he's not even top-30 of 3 point shooters.

Dude, could you not present misleading information like that, and maybe provide what his first year's 3 point % was last year, for an entire season? .424% you say? Well, what did he shoot from the field last year for the entire season? .533% you say? Okay, thanks.

If you've watched them play this year, the reason for Bonner's comparitvely lower percentages is because Sam Mitchell is using him a lot more on the floor then he did last year. He's also being asked to do things on the offense that he's not used to, and being placed in some 1-on-1 situations which is just stupid. If he was used as he should be - a spot-up shooter, lower minutes (energy guy), his percentages would be just back to where they were last year.

EDIT: Are NBA.com player profiles your only connection/association to the NBA?

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 06:54 PM
Dude, could you not present misleading information like that, and maybe provide what his first year's 3 point % was last year, for an entire season? .424% you say? Well, what did he shoot from the field last year for the entire season? .533% you say? Okay, thanks.

If you've watched them play this year, the reason for Bonner's comparitvely lower percentages is because Sam Mitchell is using him a lot more on the floor then he did last year. He's also being asked to do things on the offense that he's not used to, and being placed in some 1-on-1 situations which is just stupid. If he was used as he should be - a spot-up shooter, lower minutes (energy guy), his percentages would be just back to where they were last year.

EDIT: Are NBA.com player profiles your only connection/association to the NBA?
He was a great shooter last year. Not the best, but very good. This year, he's a so-so shooter. You can't just dismiss this year, just like I can;t dismiss last year. For his career he's a 51/40/80 shooter. Very good, possibly the highest 3% for any PF in the league, but far from the "top 3 point shooter in the league - bar none" that you claimed he was.
And by the way, your excuse makes it sound as if he can only hit the wide open shot? Well wow, I think even *I'm* a great shooter then. Maybe I should go tryput for an NBA team?

sweabs
12-14-2005, 07:07 PM
This year, he's a so-so shooter. You can't just dismiss this year, just like I can;t dismiss last year.

Look, I give up. As Jay said in the Pietrus thread - you have to look beyond the stats. I already explained the REASONING behind his poor shooting percentages in my last post. That's the kind of information you get from watching a player play instead of reading numbers all day long.


And by the way, your excuse makes it sound as if he can only hit the wide open shot? Well wow, I think even *I'm* a great shooter then. Maybe I should go tryput for an NBA team?

Um - if we were to have a shooting competition, what would it consist of? Taking spot-up shots - much like the 3 point competition. Aren't you one of Saras' biggest fans? He's pretty good at hitting open jump shots too, isn't he?

And why bother trying out for an NBA team? You might as well just send an E-Mail to the Pacers with your FT%, FG%, PPG, APG, RPG, etc. and they should be more than happy to take you on board, right?

Hicks
12-14-2005, 07:10 PM
Unless this proves to be BS, I'm keeping this on the Pacers board. It's the RealGM kings that I'm looking to keep on the trade board, not something that may (beyond "anything is possible") be true. Blahzay has some history.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2005, 07:14 PM
And why bother trying out for an NBA team? You might as well just send an E-Mail to the Pacers with your FT%, FG%, PPG, APG, RPG, etc. and they should be more than happy to take you on board, right?


Priceless.

Absolutely perfect.



+ + + + +

Too bad he's just not getting the fact that we're trying to help him stop embarassing himself all the time.

Shade
12-14-2005, 07:15 PM
Unless this proves to be BS, I'm keeping this on the Pacers board. It's the RealGM kings that I'm looking to keep on the trade board, not something that may (beyond "anything is possible") be true. Blahzay has some history.

That's cool. I was iffy on moving it, but I figured you'd move it back if you felt it was appropriate. :)

Jose Slaughter
12-14-2005, 07:48 PM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread but I thought I'd pass this along.

http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php

Denver owes the Raptors a #1, top 5 protected next year. If the include a #1 it might not be the Raptors pick.

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 08:07 PM
First of all, I'll get back to all of those Naptown haters posts tommorow when I'm back online. But let me say, stats measure production, and the bottomline is production is the single most important part of basketball. Productions what seperates the legends from the scrubs, the losers from the champions. Lots of players have had impressive looking game, yet at the end of the day they didn't bring the production and thus found their way out of the league.

Jay (circa 1992) - "I just got done watching my only Heat game of the season, and I have to say, that Harold Miner is a future All-Star. The guy has an incredible first step and the amazing athleticism to capitalize on it. He was also hitting his jump shot and doing a good job on the defensive end."
Four years later, at the ripe old age of 24, Harold Miner is out of the league. Why? Because despite his talent, and despite his ability to lead those watching him to believe he was a future all-star, and the end of the day he wasn't producing. He couldn't shoot, he couldn't rebound, and he wasn't much of a defender.

And all the talk about stats lying is B.S. Stats are facts, and facts can't lie. What lies is peoples ability (or lack-there-of) to judge talent by watching a player play. The abnormaly high rate of high school and European busts the past 10 years proves this.

Now as for the deal, if the 1st round pick in this rumor is Toronto's unprotected 2006 1st round pick, then there's no way Walsh and Bird can pass it up. Considering that there's a very good chance it would be a top-3 pick, possibly even #1, it's just too much to pass up. Rudy Gay sure would look nice a Pacers jersey. The kids productive as hell and you can tell he's gonna be a special Kobe/T-Mac/Wade tpye of player just by watching him. And the icing on the cake? We've got the same birthday. ;)

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 08:18 PM
Look, I give up. As Jay said in the Pietrus thread - you have to look beyond the stats. I already explained the REASONING behind his poor shooting percentages in my last post. That's the kind of information you get from watching a player play instead of reading numbers all day long.



Um - if we were to have a shooting competition, what would it consist of? Taking spot-up shots - much like the 3 point competition. Aren't you one of Saras' biggest fans? He's pretty good at hitting open jump shots too, isn't he?
There's something called defense in the NBA. And according to you, unless Bonner's wide open, he's a mediocre shooter. If I ever need a partner in a game of team H-O-R-S-E I'll give Matt a call. However keep his sorry *** far, far away from my team during actual games please. And Saras is a rediculous 3 point shooter with or without a man in his face, which is part of what makes him so special.


And why bother trying out for an NBA team? You might as well just send an E-Mail to the Pacers with your FT%, FG%, PPG, APG, RPG, etc. and they should be more than happy to take you on board, right?
Or I could send them a tape of me playing, and after they saw my awesome basketball ability they'd be happy to sign me. Why would they even need to see stats? After seeing my amazing first step or awesome ability to hit wide open 23" jumpers I'm sure they'd snatch me right up. I mean, look at Darko, the experts saw something so special in him just from watching him play that he was drafted #2 in a rediculously talented draft class. And my how it's paid off for the Pistons! Darko's been tearing the league up, easily the MVP of the league this year. That right there proves that it doesnt matter if a player's productive or not as long as he can make people believe he's good while he's on the court.

Mordecaii
12-14-2005, 08:19 PM
I'm sorry Naptown, but I'm going to have to (once again) disagree with you. Nobody is saying that you can't tell something about a player from looking at a stat sheet, but only looking at a statsheet tells you far too little to judge a player. Would you say that Allen Iverson is on the level of Michael Jordan because he's about on the same level in terms of stats this year as MJ? HELL NO! Jordan defended better, he was a better leader, he was clutch, I could name a thousand other things that set those players apart.

The real fact is, while stat sheets tell you something about a player, to get a true view of a player you need to look at their stats AND see their play with your own eyes. As has been stated before, NBA teams have scouts for a reason. If your theory held true then teams wouldn't even bother with scouts, they'd just check the box score on yahoo.com. Besides, this leads in to what I think is the other thing you were wrong about...

Which is what makes a player special. Sorry, but stats don't make a player special. What makes a player special is the drive to succeed, to always make themself better. The great players would never have been so great if they weren't constantly working on their game, trying to improve, and laying it out on the line. Does a stat sheet tell you that a player played through flu-like symptoms and managed to score 38 points and lead the team? No, chances are the stats just had their numbers. Does a stat sheet tell you that a player added something to their game over the summer which makes them harder to stop? No, it certainly doesn't.

The point I'm trying to make is, while stats are useful, they are just a TOOL. Nothing can or will replace seeing a player in person and finding out about their character. I'd rather get a player that is only average at the moment but has the drive to become a superstar and the talent to pull it off. Stats can't tell you what a player can accomplish, it only tells you what they have accomplished.

SoupIsGood
12-14-2005, 08:26 PM
Too bad he's just not getting the fact that we're trying to help him stop embarassing himself all the time.
Embarrassing himself?


I don't mean to pick on you, Jay, so hopefully this doesn't sound too personal, but goodness gracious sakes alive, if you want a place where everyone is going to agree with you, startup a blog. This isn't "Statistics Digest" and its not "We Actually Watch The Friggin Games Digest". Its Pacers Digest and we've got Pacers fans from all points on the spectrum.




:-p

Mourning
12-14-2005, 08:26 PM
:lurk:

Evan_The_Dude
12-14-2005, 09:05 PM
You know, I was looking at Mo Pete's player file on NBA.com and thinking "Hmm, that wouldn't be the worst thing we could get...". Then I envisioned Ron Artest on that same Toronto playerfile and then immediately heard Larry the Cable Guy say "Git-er Done!". I had to laugh, because those were my thoughts exactly.

shags
12-14-2005, 09:46 PM
Man, that'd be great if this trade was true. I've got tickets to the Pistons-Raptors game on December 27th, 5 rows from the floor center court. That'd be awesome if that was Artest's return to the Palace.

Hicks
12-14-2005, 09:52 PM
Man, that'd be great if this trade was true. I've got tickets to the Pistons-Raptors game on December 27th, 5 rows from the floor center court. That'd be awesome if that was Artest's return to the Palace.

Hold on to your beer...

sportsmusicxboxpacer
12-14-2005, 10:02 PM
no deal draft pick is nice but i dont like it

shags
12-14-2005, 10:08 PM
Hold on to your beer...

I'll stay off the floor too. :)

microwave_oven
12-14-2005, 11:36 PM
Why would they even need to see stats? After seeing my amazing first step or awesome ability to hit wide open 23" jumpers I'm sure they'd snatch me right up.

I think that almost anyone can hit the 23 inch jumper...so your not that special. :laugh:

Diesel_81
12-15-2005, 12:09 AM
Can't we just trade Ron for Toronto's 2007 pick unprotected? :pray:



http://www.gregoden.com/images/greg-oden-06.jpg

:drooling:


I was thinking the same exact thing. This draft is not very deep at all and lacks star power in my opinion.

GO!!!!!
12-15-2005, 12:26 AM
Please explain. Because I see him as the EXACT opposite.



Why stop at Villanueva? What about Bosh!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Apolgies, I may have mistaken MoPete for another former Raptor...

he just burnt me last year in my fantasy league so i have a bias towards him, he was suposed to be my last round savour...

We are not going to get Bosh, jeeesh I prefer Wade anyways....

indytoad
12-15-2005, 01:36 AM
Saw the trade in a Sportsline article (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/9096872), so either someone's stealing ideas from someone else, or there's something to it.

IndyToad
The redneck reindeer

Gamble
12-15-2005, 01:56 AM
You know rscarey NSeth it could be that one eye on stats and
the other on the player would be best policy. Are you guys going
to the next forum party? We could put it on paper view.

Frank Slade
12-15-2005, 11:02 AM
well give Blahzay some props.. looks like story was legit...


You can add Toronto to the list of rumoured destinations for Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest.

A rumour making the rounds last night had the Pacers badboy and second-round pick Erazem Lorbek going to the Raptors for Morris Peterson, another roster player (potentially Matt Bonner) and a first-round pick in 2006.

The salaries are close enough for a potential deal. Peterson and Bonner make a combined $6.3 million US, while Artest, who demanded a trade earlier this week, makes $6.8 million. Teams can trade players signed during the off-season (as was Bonner) beginning today.

Lorbek is playing professionally in Italy.

Pacers general manager Donnie Walsh has said he is going to insist on a trade that makes sense in the long-term.

Raptors GM Rob Babcock has said he would move a first-round pick (the team has two next year) if he could improve his club.


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2005/12/15/1354171-sun.html