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unstandable
12-14-2005, 03:20 AM
This is from a Lakers board:

"Long time Indy beat writer was just on, he says the Pacers have no interest in what the Lakers are offering, packages led by Kwame or Mihm. He indicates New York and Golden State are the leading contenders for Artest as of now."

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45565&start=20

From another post it sounds like Montieth said that on an LA station.

unstandable
12-14-2005, 03:29 AM
You guys also might be interested in some recent posts by an "insider" from another Lakers board:

http://forums.lakersground.net/search.php?search_author=brock

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 03:57 AM
Seems like brock thinks we aren't getting Odom... I guess they aren't getting Artest then if they aren't willing to part with any of their good or promising players.. (Bynum and Kobe were also nixed)

Kstat
12-14-2005, 03:59 AM
I think Odom is a tad much to give up for Artest anyway. I don't think he'd fit on the Pacers, but his value is higher right now.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 04:04 AM
I think Odom is a tad much to give up for Artest anyway. I don't think he'd fit on the Pacers, but his value is higher right now.

I don't really see it happening either... of course, the salaries don't work straight up as it is... It'd have to be Pollard + Artest or something to that effect...

FreshPrince22
12-14-2005, 04:06 AM
haha, you guys are gonna end up with Mike Dunleavy Jr. Fresh on that new ****ty contract :laugh:

J/K. You'd probably get Pietrus in the deal (I am a fan of his)

Bball
12-14-2005, 04:08 AM
So nobody is smoking out any trades where the Pacers are talking 2 or 3 (our side) for 1, or at least where the other party is asking for that?

But then, I suppose the Pacers wouldn't start there anyway.

-Bball

Arcadian
12-14-2005, 04:08 AM
I don't think we'll get Odom. The only way is if the Lakers really want Artest because they have only 3 players of any trade value and Odom is the one they would mostly let go.

In fact they have only two players who would crack a playoff team's eight or nine man rotation.

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:09 AM
I have a feeling that they might actually wind up with Dunleavy jr. too. But if Donnie takes that bloated contract extension along with him, he needs to get his head checked.

Actually, I take that back. For Tayshaun Prince, it's a fair contract. For Dunleavy, it's a freakin' anchor.

FreshPrince22
12-14-2005, 04:10 AM
I don't think we'll get Odom. The only way is if the Lakers really want Artest because they have only 3 players of any trade value and Odom is the one they would mostly let go.

In fact they have only two players who would crack a playoff team's eight or nine man rotation.

What about Smush?!?!? :uhoh:

Bball
12-14-2005, 04:12 AM
I have a feeling that they might actually wind up with Dunleavy jr. too. But if Donnie takes that bloated contract extension along with him, he needs to get his head checked.

Actually, I take that back. For Tayshaun Prince, it's a fair contract. For Dunleavy, it's a freakin' anchor.

Pacers.... Bloated contracts...?

Kinda fits don't it? :cry:

-Bball

Arcadian
12-14-2005, 04:13 AM
Smush will always be the one Joe let go away. :D

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:14 AM
Smush will always be the one Joe let go away.

.....you must be thinking of Bobby Simmons. We actually had a NEED for a small forward when Joe cut him loose.....

And considering who we already have in our backcourt, I wouldn't call Smush "the one that got away." He's a good kid, but this wasn't the place for him.

Arcadian
12-14-2005, 04:16 AM
Sorry, I should have put a smiley by that. I don't think much of Smush. He's a good athelete and decent scorer but a bad point guard.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 04:18 AM
haha, you guys are gonna end up with Mike Dunleavy Jr. Fresh on that new ****ty contract :laugh:

J/K. You'd probably get Pietrus in the deal (I am a fan of his)

Pietrus would be great... I'd be very happy getting him in return for Artest.

Perhaps we'd have to take Foyle or somebody like that in order for the trade to work though...

Alternatively, I'd also love to have Diogu

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:21 AM
Foyle is the only center GS has. They can't trade him.

Pietrus is untouchable.

Diogu hasn't played much, but would they give up on him so early when they already have a glut of swingmen?

The more I think about it, the more I think Dunleavy would HAVE to be the main piece involved in any Artest deal. Nothing else seems realistic.

cracktower
12-14-2005, 04:23 AM
I have a feeling that they might actually wind up with Dunleavy jr. too. But if Donnie takes that bloated contract extension along with him, he needs to get his head checked.

Actually, I take that back. For Tayshaun Prince, it's a fair contract. For Dunleavy, it's a freakin' anchor.

Kstat I think you are overrating Tayshaun Price and underating Mike Dunleavy just a lil bit:laugh:

Yes, Prince is better without a doubt but Dunleavy is not far behind.
The guy can score, rebound and is a really good passer. I remember last year he was even playing the point for golden state.

Personally, if we can get him and Pietrus who is another underated palyer(good defence,athletic and can shoot from long range) for Artest, I would be thrilled.:)

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:28 AM
Dunleavy has been beyond pathetic this year:

10ppg as a starting SF.

%39 shooting :uhoh:

%26 from the arc :laugh:

Ast/TO ratio of about 2/1.

The defensive intensity of your average 80-year old woman. 0.7 steals and 0.4 blocks. :lmao:

Dunleavy has been really, really bad.

If you get Pietrus, you SHOULD be thrilled. But if it's Dunleavy? I'd personally rather get a draft pick instead. I'd rather have Granger starting.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 04:31 AM
Reading a GS board...

They suggest the following trade:

Ron Artest and Jeff Foster

for

Pietrus, Foyle, Zarko Cabarkapa, and Calbert Cheaney


It makes sense in that they get back a center (backup... Biedrins and Taft can play too, but they'd probably start Murphy, Artest, Dunleavy, JRich, and Baron)

I don't see us acquiring Dunleavy unless thats all we can get...

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:34 AM
I think their fans got fed up with Foyle's ability to miss open dunks at an uncanny rate....

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 04:38 AM
I think their fans got fed up with Foyle's ability to miss open dunks at an uncanny rate....

:laugh:

That and his ridiculous contract...

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:40 AM
Hey, Pietrus would be a steal for you.

Foyle and Fisher are good role players, but their contracts are pretty huge.

cracktower
12-14-2005, 04:54 AM
Dunleavy has been beyond pathetic this year:

10ppg as a starting SF.

%39 shooting :uhoh:

%26 from the arc :laugh:

Ast/TO ratio of about 2/1.

The defensive intensity of your average 80-year old woman. 0.7 steals and 0.4 blocks. :lmao:

Dunleavy has been really, really bad.

If you get Pietrus, you SHOULD be thrilled. But if it's Dunleavy? I'd personally rather get a draft pick instead. I'd rather have Granger starting.


.41 stls .24 Blks and Ast/TO ratio of less then 2/1 and 31% from beyond the arc, your princess is hardly impresiive herself.:laugh:

Jokes aside they both have almost identical career numbers.


Cheers

Kstat
12-14-2005, 04:58 AM
.41 stls .24 Blks and Ast/TO ratio of less then 2/1 and 31% from beyond the arc, your princess is hardly impresiive herself.:laugh:

Jokes aside they both have almost identical career numbers.


Cheers


....except Prince is an all-defensive team selection, and he's murdering Dunleavy in every statistical category this year....

But yeah, if you include Tay's rookie season, which weighs down his career stats like an anchor, they're about even. That doesn;t mean much, though.

Kstat
12-14-2005, 05:00 AM
If you can get Pietrus you should take him and run. The rest I'm not so sure about.

Ultimate Frisbee
12-14-2005, 05:03 AM
are you guys kidding ?
who are you, pistons fans ?

Ariza + Lee + Crawford ?
Dunlevy + Foyle ?
Pietrus + Pick ?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I kinda doubt we are going to get a quality veteran that is ready now... but if we get several young talents we could actually end up on the better side of the trade in the future... (think of the JO trade)

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 06:12 AM
....except Prince is an all-defensive team selection You can thank Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown for that. I watched Tayshaun many times at Kentucky, and I assure you, this guy is an average defender. And with Flip coaching the Pistons, the rest of the league is begining to see this as well. I mean, did you all see the way AK-47 (an average scorer) lit him up the other night? 22 points on 9-16 shooting, 12 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks. Ouch.


But yeah, if you include Tay's rookie season, which weighs down his career stats like an anchor, they're about even. That doesn;t mean much, though. Uhhh.....that excuse would be a lil' more valid if Tayshaun didn't have a +4 in career minutes per game
By looking at the stats, I can easily make the claim that M.D. Jr.
A Better Scorer
A Better Shooter
A Far Better Rebounder
A Far Better Passer<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="colhead"><td align="right"> G</td><td align="right"> GS</td><td align="right"> MIN</td><td align="right">FG</td><td align="right">FG%</td><td align="right">3P</td><td align="right">3P%</td><td align="right">FT</td><td align="right">FT%</td><td align="right">STL</td><td align="right">BLK</td><td align="right">TO</td><td align="right">PF</td><td align="right">DQ</td><td align="right">OFF</td><td align="right">DEF</td><td align="right">TOT</td><td align="right">AST</td><td align="right">PTS</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td align="right">256</td><td align="right">171</td><td align="right">26.6</td><td align="right"><nobr>3.8-8.7</nobr></td><td align="right">.437</td><td align="right"><nobr>1.1-2.9</nobr></td><td align="right">.362</td><td align="right"><nobr>1.5-2.0</nobr></td><td align="right">.765</td><td align="right">0.8</td><td align="right">0.3</td><td align="right">1.5</td><td align="right">2.1</td><td align="right">0.0</td><td align="right">1.0</td><td align="right">3.6</td><td align="right">4.6</td><td align="right">2.3</td><td align="right">10.1</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td align="right">224</td><td align="right">185</td><td align="right">30.6</td><td align="right"><nobr>4.3-9.1</nobr></td><td align="right">.476</td><td align="right"><nobr>0.6-1.7</nobr></td><td align="right">.356</td><td align="right"><nobr>1.7-2.2</nobr></td><td align="right">.779</td><td align="right">0.6</td><td align="right">0.7</td><td align="right">1.3</td><td align="right">1.6</td><td align="right">0.0</td><td align="right">1.1</td><td align="right">3.1</td><td align="right">4.2</td><td align="right">2.3</td><td align="right">11.0</td></tr></tbody> </table>

skyfire
12-14-2005, 06:20 AM
I watched Tayshaun many times at Kentucky, and I assure you, this guy is an average defender.

hohoho..a coach's defensive system doesn't turn an average defender into a team's best perimeter defender on a team like the Pistons.

Kstat : I'm pretty sure Naptown is looking to ursurp your 'Most Argumentative Poster' title.

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 06:25 AM
hohoho..a coach's defensive system doesn't turn an average defender into a team's best perimeter defender on a team like the Pistons.

Kstat : I'm pretty sure Naptown is looking to ursurp your 'Most Argumentative Poster' title.
Well, that was in college, so it's perfectly reasonable to say the guys improved over time. But I'm not buying that the Pistons and their great team defense, including playing behind 2 very good defensive big men, doesn't inflate Tayshaun's defensive ability a good deal.

indygeezer
12-14-2005, 07:46 AM
I want Luke Walton...just so Bill would have to like us. :D




Is the bunny dropping hints for the Laker office to pick up on...Is his purpose to stir things up in Lakerland and perhaps get them into a bidding war?

I'd love to see a bidding war.

Unclebuck
12-14-2005, 08:41 AM
haha, you guys are gonna end up with Mike Dunleavy Jr. Fresh on that new ****ty contract :laugh:

J/K. You'd probably get Pietrus in the deal (I am a fan of his)



That sounds very realistic.

I don't see Odom. He won't fit in well. The Pacers would have to change too much to accomadate his unusual game. Plus he's not a small forward

Fool
12-14-2005, 09:44 AM
You can thank Rick Carlisle for that.

Because Carlisle is known for making players better in their problem areas. 0_o

Dunleavy is a whipping boy a bit unjustly but if my team has Dunleavy and the Pistons want to trade me Prince for him straight up (even forgetting about the contracts), I do that deal and I think many Pacer fans would agree. Of course I'm a Piston fan so that opinion is jilted, but then when isn't Seth's opinion jilted?

Cracktower,

Prince's Asst/To ratio is a little more than 2/1 not less. Just pointing that out. Not claiming its a huge difference.

Kstat,
Its not like Dunleavy's rookie stats prop him up any better than Prince's.

Slick Pinkham
12-14-2005, 10:02 AM
The bitter pill of Foyle's awful contract running 5 more years might be the price to pay for getting a good player in return i.e. Diogu or Pietrus.

I'd rather not have that albatross of a contract. I'd prefer a decent draft pick and an ending contract, frankly, if we can't swing the deal for Peja, Odom, or Frye.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:45 AM
Dunleavy is an enigma.. very streaky and inconsistent at times.
Teases you with his talent and versatility...

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 10:53 AM
Pietrus would be great... I'd be very happy getting him in return for Artest.

Perhaps we'd have to take Foyle or somebody like that in order for the trade to work though...

Alternatively, I'd also love to have Diogu

Ok great here is the supposed rumor..

:mad:


Artest would be welcomed in Golden StateWarriors players have no objection to adding the controversial PacerWarriors notebook
SEATTLE -- Make no mistake about it. To a man, there are a few Warriors who will tell you in a heartbeat they'd love to have Indiana Pacers small forward Ron Artest as a teammate.
"(Expletive) yeah," Warriors guard Jason Richardson said. "He's one of the top players in this league. To get a guy like that ..."




Rumors and speculation had made its way to the Warriors locker room prior to Tuesday's game. One player said he was told of a scenario of the Warriors sending small forward Mike Dunleavy and center Adonal Foyle to the Pacers for Artest and center Jeff Foster, whom the Warriors drafted in the first round (No. 21) of the 1999 draft and immediately traded his rights to Indiana for the rights to guard Vonteego Cummings and a future pick.
The numbers match, as the Pacers' pair will earn $11.8 million this season and the Warriors' pair will make $11.9 million. Because both teams are over the salary cap, the contracts only have to come to within 25 percent of each other instead of the usual 15 percent. Also, Dunleavy and whichever one of the Warriors' younger talents -- i.e., forward/center Andris Biedrins, forward Zarko Cabarkapa, swingman Mickael Pietrus -- Indiana wants would fit. Guard Derek Fisher could be traded straight up for Artest, although it would certainly take a draft pick or a young talent to make it worth the Pacers' while.

If the Warriors were to acquire Artest, that would give them a starting perimeter of Artest, Richardson and Baron Davis. It would also significantly improve their ability to defend the perimeter.
."
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/13404119.htm

ABADays
12-14-2005, 11:17 AM
A lot of scenarios here. Personally, I am not in favor of trading away anything but problem players. This means Cro and Foser stay. Maybe not realistic but why penalize ourselves even more by getting rid of well-liked players and good teammates.

Fool
12-14-2005, 11:30 AM
Will the team change their name to the Golden State Wariers?

Yes, it was obvious. Yes, it was necessary.

Harmonica
12-14-2005, 11:35 AM
Will the team change their name to the Golden State Wariers?

Yes, it was obvious. Yes, it was necessary.

U mad!

Jermaniac
12-14-2005, 11:55 AM
LMAO @ Pietrus being untouchable for Ron Artest

Jermaniac
12-14-2005, 11:56 AM
OMG Jeff and Ron for Foyle and Dunleavy? Good God if we do that Donnie and Larry both need to just quit, lord what a horrible deal.

ABADays
12-14-2005, 12:11 PM
Just a quick question. Do you think Ron's value goes up the longer we hold onto him? I mean, we don't have to be in a hurry right?

Hicks
12-14-2005, 12:24 PM
Holding onto him to try to build up a bidding war is a bad and uneccessary idea IMO. Seems like things have heated up immediately, and this will be over within 2 weeks if I had to guess. The bidding's already started. If 15 teams have already called as of yesterday, I imagine things are moving along fast.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2005, 12:28 PM
Two weeks? I don't see us staying "shorthanded" any longer than necessary.

Seems to me this is going to work a lot like a bankruptcy auction.

Get everybody's bids in, focus on the two or three you like the best, and see if you have any leverage to sweeten them. Meanwhile, if one of the lowball bids decides they really want "in the game", they'll come back to the table with something better.

I don't see this stretching on more than a couple more days, unless every single offer is pitiful.

blanket
12-14-2005, 12:31 PM
Wait a minute here.


"Long time Indy beat writer was just on, he says the Pacers have no interest in what the Lakers are offering, packages led by Kwame or Mihm. He indicates New York and Golden State are the leading contenders for Artest as of now."

Both Donnie and the NY media have said that the Knicks have not (yet) contacted the Pacers about Ron. So how can they be one of the leading contenders?!? Either the poster from the Lakers board -- or Montieth -- is full of it. Or Donnie is lying...

blanket
12-14-2005, 12:33 PM
Two weeks? I don't see us staying "shorthanded" any longer than necessary.

Seems to me this is going to work a lot like a bankruptcy auction.

Get everybody's bids in, focus on the two or three you like the best, and see if you have any leverage to sweeten them. Meanwhile, if one of the lowball bids decides they really want "in the game", they'll come back to the table with something better.

I don't see this stretching on more than a couple more days, unless every single offer is pitiful.

Yes, I expect a trade announcement between Monday and Wednesday of next week. The top offers may make the papers this weekend.

Frank Slade
12-14-2005, 12:35 PM
No doub,t I saw Donnie mentioned he had received phone calls for arround 15 teams yesterday.
I would expect the volume and intensity to pick up by Friday, after all the newly signed contract players can be moved.

Mordecaii
12-14-2005, 12:40 PM
I fully expect that most GM's opinions on Artest will change over the next few days. When the announcement first came out, most of them were probably thinking only of the negatives...

By week's end, I wouldn't be surprised if the fear of a conference rival or the enticement of a great talent don't change some GM's minds and they really start to rethink what they would give up to have a player of Ron's caliber.

Eventually I expect that the bad will be pushed into the back of people's minds and they'll get caught up in going for Artest, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a decent talent in return.

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 12:54 PM
Wait a minute here.



Both Donnie and the NY media have said that the Knicks have not (yet) contacted the Pacers about Ron. So how can they be one of the leading contenders?!? Either the poster from the Lakers board -- or Montieth -- is full of it. Or Donnie is lying...

With :montieth:'s past history as a cutting edge reporter always passing on breaking news and in-depth Pacers analysis of what's really going on behind the scenes, I know which scenario I'd pick. :rolleyes:

able
12-14-2005, 01:01 PM
MM and IT talk a lot, I would no be surprised :D

oh and NY is only taken serious WITH Channing on the table, perhaps that is the reason for the "silence"

Fool
12-14-2005, 01:01 PM
I think it can be attributed to the fact that the Knicks are the default #2 front runner for every trade.

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 01:03 PM
I think it can be attributed to the fact that the Knicks are the default #2 front runner for every trade.

We are THE team to be mentioned when a player/agent/GM tries to raise someone's trade/FA value.

But nobody ever comes out to play. :cry:

(I include Jerome James as nobody BTW)

Bball
12-14-2005, 01:33 PM
Ummmmmm can we slow down with one piece of "info" that some of you are banking on?

15 or so calls...

If Donnie Walsh had received one or even none, what do you think he'd say? I bet he wouldn't tell you the phone has barely been ringing. I bet he'd say 15 or so calls.

You say "every team in the league has called" and enough teams talk (plus know THEY didn't call) that they know that is BS (unless its true). You say 'half the teams have called' and then overall teams don't know one way or another whether that is true. And so that is a nice number to plant the seed that there are teams wanting Artest, yet not too many to get caught lying. And so teams have to think if they want in the game then they better make their move ASAP.

So, I'd take DW's comment about how many suitors he has for Artest with a grain of salt. It's too early in the process to discount the possibility that it's merely posturing.


-Bball

Shade
12-14-2005, 01:38 PM
Ummmmmm can we slow down with one piece of "info" that some of you are banking on?

15 or so calls...

If Donnie Walsh had received one or even none, what do you think he'd say? I bet he wouldn't tell you the phone has barely been ringing. I bet he'd say 15 or so calls.

You say "every team in the league has called" and enough teams talk (plus know THEY didn't call) that they know that is BS (unless its true). You say 'half the teams have called' and then overall teams don't know one way or another whether that is true. And so that is a nice number to plant the seed that there are teams wanting Artest, yet not too many to get caught lying. And so teams have to think if they want in the game then they better make their move ASAP.

So, I'd take DW's comment about how many suitors he has for Artest with a grain of salt. It's too early in the process to discount the possibility that it's merely posturing.


-Bball

:brilliant

indygeezer
12-14-2005, 01:55 PM
This is where DW's rep as a shrewd negotiator does both harm and good.

No GM wants to be the next DW "victim" yet they fear losing out entirely. Noone wants to overpay...but there is Artest sitting there just waiting for them to gobble up. The former DPOY....the stone-cold lock down defender they covet, annointed by none other than Michael hisowndamnself. And all they gotta do is show him that if he behaves he can have it all. And Lord knows he'd surely behave for us.

Hicks
12-14-2005, 02:06 PM
Let's get off the "DW is lying; we didn't really get 15 calls" stuff. Just like if he had said "almost everybody"; these people have phones. He'd be caught within a day lying this way.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Foyle is the only center GS has. They can't trade him.

Pietrus is untouchable.

Diogu hasn't played much, but would they give up on him so early when they already have a glut of swingmen?

The more I think about it, the more I think Dunleavy would HAVE to be the main piece involved in any Artest deal. Nothing else seems realistic.
About Foyle:

Although he is an anchor for the Warriors....he is expendable. With players like Diogu/Biedrins/Taft.....all talented projects....but players that need playing time to get to the next level.....Foyle is simply standing in their way.

I will admit that Foyle does exactly what I would want a Center to do....he rebounds very well and block shots like crazy...he plays pretty decent defense and is best suited to play as a backup Center.

The problem is that he has a big long term contract ( which Walsh won't like ) and worst of all....according to my friend that's a long time Warrior fan.....the guy has hands of stone. He may stay in the paint....but if you pass him the ball....more often then not...he may turn it over. Also...for whatever reason...despite the # of seasons he's been in the NBA...he's been slow to pick up the "be at that spot at a certain time to complete this play" concept.

If you want a Center that will help you rebound, block shots and do an acceptable job defending the paint against big men.......but will not be used extensively on the offensive end.....then Foyle is your man.

But if you want a Center like Foster....who can provide some decent inside scoring....then Foyle is not your man.

Pietrus:

He is the exact type of player that I want ( assuming that we make SJax the 2nd scoring option ).....a quick defending SG/SF perimeter defender that defintely has potential as a defensive stopper who can hit the occassional 3pt shot when left open. The problem is that the Warriors would be reluctant to let him go.

Diogu:

He's what we would need...a developing big/burly PF who stays in the paint, rebounds, scores from the low post, block shots and gets fouls. The problem is that that's exactly what the Warriors drafted him...he's exactly what the Warriors need....a low post scoring threat....which is the very reason why Diogu won't be traded.

Dunleavy:

To tell you the truth....as a SF....he's pretty decent as a 3rd scoring option...as that is what he does right now playing behind players like Baron/JRich and playing next to Troy Murphy. His defense isn't that great....but he's a pretty decent "all around player and can hit the 3pt shot. Also...for whatever reason...he's a pretty decent Point-Forward. IMHO...he's a solid 6th man option.

If we could pull off a trade that involved Foyle/Pietrus for Artest/Freddie ( which does work in Trade Checker ).....then I would be happy. I know that Walsh will balk on Foyle's contract.....but I get what I want....a SG/SF that can provide solid defense that can hit the 3pt shot and a backup Center that does nothing more then block shots and rebound.

Bball
12-14-2005, 02:28 PM
Let's get off the "DW is lying; we didn't really get 15 calls" stuff. Just like if he had said "almost everybody"; these people have phones. He'd be caught within a day lying this way.

I will stand by this (because it was my overall point):


So, I'd take DW's comment about how many suitors he has for Artest with a grain of salt. It's too early in the process to discount the possibility that it's merely posturing.

And that is part of a bigger point: Right now (IMHO) Walsh is not only fielding offers but doing what he can to gain some leverage back. It will be hard to separate his public comments (and leaks) from between stone cold facts vs posturing (Negotiating tactics, looking for leverage, marketing, making lemonade from lemons, etc).

He's truly going to be in spin mode and I think we need to remember that as the process plays out. I suppose you could call it lying, but I didn't mean that he was lying to the fans just to make us feel good and couldn't be trusted... I meant he's being careful with what he says and trying to paint a picture that puts him in the best negotiating stance possible... and it might take a white lie (or two) or bit of hype to do it.

We should expect that. And that is exactly what he should be doing.

-Bball

Mordecaii
12-14-2005, 02:30 PM
So if we do the trade you wanted CableKC, then we end up with Ron and Freddie gone, so we lose 2 SG/SF's. Ok, so we get Pietrus back... and he will take I'm assuming the SG spot, which leaves us with Jackson and Danger. I suppose we could make that work. Then we take a look at Centers... either Foyle just sits on the bench for us all year or we never play David Harrison in which case we're not building on our young talent. I don't like getting Foyle.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 02:32 PM
OMG Jeff and Ron for Foyle and Dunleavy? Good God if we do that Donnie and Larry both need to just quit, lord what a horrible deal.
Jerm.....you and NorCal Pacerfan can probably relate to this since we are in the SF Bay Area.....but there's a part of me that really wants Pietrus and would trade Artest to the Warriors in a second if we could do it....but there's the part of me that wouldn't want Artest at the one game of the year that I get to see when the Pacers visit the Warriors in Oakland.

I would get to pull out my "Thanks for Nothing Artest" sign once every year.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 02:47 PM
So if we do the trade you wanted CableKC, then we end up with Ron and Freddie gone, so we lose 2 SG/SF's. Ok, so we get Pietrus back... and he will take I'm assuming the SG spot, which leaves us with Jackson and Danger. I suppose we could make that work. Then we take a look at Centers... either Foyle just sits on the bench for us all year or we never play David Harrison in which case we're not building on our young talent. I don't like getting Foyle.

I would start Pietrus at the SG spot ( I think he is that good ) playing about 25 to 30 mpg ( mainly cuz of his defense ). I would then let Sarunas backfill the rest of the SG minutes and play some backup PG minutes. I'm basically looking at a Guard rotation of Tinsley/Pietrus/Sarunas splitting time at the PG/SG spots with AJ playing garbage minutes. Splitting Tinsley/Pietrus/Sarunas at the Guard spots should allow for then to play between 28 to 32 minutes a game between the 3 of them. Pietrus is exactly what I am looking for...a 3rd/4th wheel that I want that can be effective on the floor when not touching the ball...something we need if we are to assume that SJax is going to be the 2nd scoring option.

Besides....the reason I suggest trading away Freddie is that I don't think the Pacers will resign him when he becomes a Free Agent.

Also....as an added plus....since Pietrus can play both the SG/SF positions ( where he's more of a SG then SF ), then he can fill in when needed ( due to injuries ) at the SF spot playing behind SJax and Granger.

Looking at the Center position....I don't expect that Pollard will be here for the long term since he will like be traded for cap relief cuz of his expiring contract. I know he has a huge @ss long term contract.....if we put that aside...which I know is not possible when it comes to Walsh....he can split time at the Center position behind Foster and ahead of / next to / behind the Hulk.....since he is best suited as a backup Center who can come in to provide some defense, rebounding and shotblocking. Just put him in with 4 other decent scoring options so he doesn't have to really score.

The problem is that I really doubt that Walsh takes on Foyle's contract. But since I'm not signing his paycheck, I look at it as a price that we have to pay in order to get Pietrus.....a guy that I really think will be a very solid perimeter defender as he gains more NBA experience.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 02:53 PM
I REALLY hope that Walsh/Bird doesn't sit on this too long....the longer we wait...the less likely a decent deal will come in....which means that Zeke will zoom in and offer us something that we don't want...simply cuz we have no choice.

Also.....we have to remember that Artest is not the only player that will likely be traded after the 15th.....the more time that passes...the more likely players will be taken off the market.

My motto on the RealGM Pacer board towards Knicks fans is "No Frye for the Pacers = No Artest for the Knicks". I DO NOT want to be in a position like the Mavs when they tried to trade Finley.....being in our position where we MUST trade Artest is bad...but being in our position at the 11th hour and all we have left is Zeke calling is 10 times worse. I don't want to be in the position that Paxson was in when he was left with little choice and was forced to trade Curry to the Knicks for Sweetney.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 02:55 PM
OT.....can someone explain this ----> :montieth: to me?

I know it refers to Mark Montieth....but I have no clue what it means. Please enlighten me.

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 03:07 PM
I will stand by this (because it was my overall point):


And that is part of a bigger point: Right now (IMHO) Walsh is not only fielding offers but doing what he can to gain some leverage back. It will be hard to separate his public comments (and leaks) from between stone cold facts vs posturing (Negotiating tactics, looking for leverage, marketing, making lemonade from lemons, etc).

He's truly going to be in spin mode and I think we need to remember that as the process plays out. I suppose you could call it lying, but I didn't mean that he was lying to the fans just to make us feel good and couldn't be trusted... I meant he's being careful with what he says and trying to paint a picture that puts him in the best negotiating stance possible... and it might take a white lie (or two) or bit of hype to do it.

We should expect that. And that is exactly what he should be doing.

-Bball

Walsh would call it lying (later). He did in the Pacers media guide where it profiled him when he talked about misdirection in expressing interest in draft picks.

And he'd be proud of it. You do what you have to.

Bball
12-14-2005, 03:08 PM
OT.....can someone explain this ----> :montieth: to me?

I know it refers to Mark Montieth....but I have no clue what it means. Please enlighten me.


I believe it means that Montieth's reporting is cutting edge and hard hitting, very sharp and cutting, much like a bunny with a pancake on its head.

Wait... A bunny with a pancake on its head is soft and fuzzy...

Hmmmmmmm

-Bball

blanket
12-14-2005, 03:21 PM
So if we do the trade you wanted CableKC, then we end up with Ron and Freddie gone, so we lose 2 SG/SF's. Ok, so we get Pietrus back... and he will take I'm assuming the SG spot, which leaves us with Jackson and Danger. I suppose we could make that work. Then we take a look at Centers... either Foyle just sits on the bench for us all year or we never play David Harrison in which case we're not building on our young talent. I don't like getting Foyle.

Then how about Artest and the 2.5M trade exemption for Foyle and Peitrus?

CableKC
12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
I believe it means that Montieth's reporting is cutting edge and hard hitting, very sharp and cutting, much like a bunny with a pancake on its head.

Wait... A bunny with a pancake on its head is soft and fuzzy...

Hmmmmmmm

-Bball
That's a pancake? :rotflmao:

I always thought it was one of those hats that you see women vietnemese women wear in Vietnam. :hmm:

You guys ( and PacerGurl ) just made my day.....:laugh:

CableKC
12-14-2005, 03:38 PM
Then how about Artest and the 2.5M trade exemption for Foyle and Peitrus?
The less we give up...the better....but I think that the Warriors would want an acceptable athletic / defender SG in return.

CableKC
12-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Walsh would call it lying (later). He did in the Pacers media guide where it profiled him when he talked about misdirection in expressing interest in draft picks.

And he'd be proud of it. You do what you have to.

And that is why I am glad that he is doing the negotiations with the likes of the other GMs....ESPECIALLY when it comes to Zeke.

I REALLLLLLY hope that Walsh will settle for nothing less then Frye IF we deal Artest to the Knicks.

Hoop
12-14-2005, 03:50 PM
GS has only one player I'd be interested in, JRich and that ain't going to happen. The thoughts of getting either Pietrus or Folye for Ron make me ill.

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 04:25 PM
And that is why I am glad that he is doing the negotiations with the likes of the other GMs....ESPECIALLY when it comes to Zeke.

I REALLLLLLY hope that Walsh will settle for nothing less then Frye IF we deal Artest to the Knicks.

We aren't getting Artest (I hope).

The only reason Isiah will even make an offer is if he wants to be able to tell Ron in 2 years when his contract's up, "Ron, we tried to get you back in 05 but we just couldn't get a deal done." rather than having Ron PO'd that the Knicks didn't make an offer.

But if Frye was traded I doubt Isiah would make it past the New Year as GM.

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2005, 04:26 PM
Wait... A bunny with a pancake on its head is soft and fuzzy...


And confused.