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View Full Version : Mark Montieth: "Pacers no longer a championship contender"



Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 06:24 PM
That is not my comment. That is what Mark Montieth just said on ESPN 950. He said they won't be a contender even after Ron is traded and no matter who they would likely acquire

MM also said that before Ron's comments Saturday other players still on the Pacers were more likely to be traded.

MM also said that he would not be surprised if other major changes are made, because this team lost any chance they had of beating the Pistons, so LB and DW might look at it as more of a rebuilding type of job.

MM did not mention other names.



Interesting interview.

Shade
12-13-2005, 06:30 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?

Los Angeles
12-13-2005, 06:31 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?
Like an idiot.

sweabs
12-13-2005, 06:36 PM
This is good news, in my opinion.

NPFII
12-13-2005, 06:39 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?

Like he should have picked Cleveland...
Wait - maybe he should get a "wrist injury", or "sinupoutis", sit out a few games and demand a trade on ESPN. Cleveland is still an option... it IS the NBA in the year 2005.

RSmits
12-13-2005, 06:41 PM
MM also said that before Ron's comments Saturday other players still on the Pacers were more likely to be traded.



Just to clarify, he said that there are players (e.g. Jax, Tins) that would have otherwise been traded, but will now be held onto?

I've wondered about this. I wonder whether one of these players will be packaged in the deal with Artest, or whether he'll wait to the offseason to reassess.

DeS
12-13-2005, 06:44 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?
Well, he will not capitulate - that's for sure! He's the type of
the guy, who will never surrender. Neither I will
get used to look at the pacers as a "rebuilding team".

tadscout
12-13-2005, 06:45 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?

Out of the 3 teams that were after him this will still be the best team even w/o Ron...

This year is pretty much ruined... I say clean house (Tins and Jax) and rebuild around JO, Sarunie, Foster, and Granger (the untouchables)... and compete for the next 10+ years...

ChicagoJ
12-13-2005, 06:49 PM
:bunny: must really believe some of the fluffy crap he's written.

This team was not a contender in the first place. Not with Ron. The internal sabotage was inevitable.

DisplacedKnick
12-13-2005, 07:02 PM
:bunny: must really believe some of the fluffy crap he's written.

This team was not a contender in the first place. Not with Ron. The internal sabotage was inevitable.

Dang Jay - every time I'm about to post something you beat me to it.

IMO this team still COULD be a contender but Saras and Granger have to become big contributors quickly and the team health has to be great going into the playoffs.

Harmonica
12-13-2005, 07:11 PM
That is not my comment. That is what Mark Montieth just said on ESPN 950. He said they won't be a contender even after Ron is traded and no matter who they would likely acquire

MM also said that before Ron's comments Saturday other players still on the Pacers were more likely to be traded.

MM also said that he would not be surprised if other major changes are made, because this team lost any chance they had of beating the Pistons, so LB and DW might look at it as more of a rebuilding type of job.

MM did not mention other names.



Interesting interview.

I don't agree with him. I'll have to defer to William Goldman (writer of Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid) when he said about Hollywood: "Nobody in this town knows nothing."

The same holds true in sports.

Case in point, nobody, and I mean nobody picked the Pistons to win it all two years ago. And even when they made it to the finals, everyone thought the Lakers would have an easy time with them.

So people, just because MM says it's so, doesn't mean it's true. He don't know nothing.

tadscout
12-13-2005, 07:15 PM
Out of the 3 teams that were after him this will still be the best team even w/o Ron...

This year is pretty much ruined... I say clean house (Tins and Jax) and rebuild around JO, Sarunie, Foster, and Granger (the untouchables)... and compete for the next 10+ years...

I want to add that I mean ruined w/ this group of players... but after a few changes mattering what they may be, we could still be in the title hunt...

Kestas
12-13-2005, 07:18 PM
I wonder how Runi feels right now?

hard to tell. Saras has won some good titles (Olympic bronze, European gold among others) with the teams that were not considered the favourites. Lithuanian basketball and our clubs are famous for achieving much better results when not among the favourites. so Saras has already been in this kind of situation though in some previous years he did play in very powerfull clubs, that were clearly among the favourites for it all. but one must remember that the first Euroleague title with Maccabi was a nailbiter, when during the so-called top-16 stage (four groups of four in it, only winners go to Final-4) Maccabi won a deciding game in overtime. btw, Saras had an awesome game that time and basically did everything right for that overtime to materialise, coz the game was practically lost for Maccabi.

besides, which team of those offering Saras a deal has better chances to win the title?

k

Shade
12-13-2005, 07:25 PM
I don't agree with him. I'll have to defer to William Goldman (writer of Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid) when he said about Hollywood: "Nobody in this town knows nothing."

The same holds true in sports.

Case in point, nobody, and I mean nobody picked the Pistons to win it all two years ago. And even when they made it to the finals, everyone thought the Lakers would have an easy time with them.

So people, just because MM says it's so, doesn't mean it's true. He don't know nothing.

It depends on who we get. If Donnie gets offers of Odom or Al and instead decideds to go young, then even he doesn't think we have a chance anymore. But it's premature to say we're completely out of the hunt unitl we see what we get for Ron.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 07:25 PM
I think in order for us to remain a legit contender, atleast 2 of the following 3 things must happen:

( 1 ) Sarunas Jasikevicius must step up and become a "special" player. I'm not saying he has to step up and becoem a superstar, but he must step up and become a Mike Bibby/Chauncey Billups-level player.
( 2 ) The Pacers must get a very good player in exchange for Ron. No mediocre Mo Peterson-type players. Noone who's 2 (or more) years away from contributing. I'm talking someone on a Peja Stojakovic or Lamar Odom level. Someone who can step in and become that 2nd star we're missing without Ron.
( 3 ) One, or more, of our young players must step up their games. I'm primarily talking about Fred Jones, Danny Granger, or David Harrison.

The good news is, I could see all happening happening. The bad news is, I could see none of the three happening. Only time will tell. But win or loss, one thing's for sure, it will be an interesting season.

Shade
12-13-2005, 07:29 PM
I think in order for us to remain a legit contender, atleast 2 of the following 3 things must happen:

( 1 ) Sarunas Jasikevicius must step up and become a "special" player. I'm not saying he has to step up and becoem a superstar, but he must step up and become a Mike Bibby/Chauncey Billups-level player.
( 2 ) The Pacers must get a very good player in exchange for Ron. No mediocre Mo Peterson-type players. Noone who's 2 (or more) years away from contributing. I'm talking someone on a Peja Stojakovic or Lamar Odom level. Someone who can step in and become that 2nd star we're missing without Ron.
( 3 ) One, or more, of our young players must step up their games. I'm primarily talking about Fred Jones, Danny Granger, or David Harrison.

The good news is, I could see all happening happening. The bad news is, I could see none of the three happening. Only time will tell. But win or loss, one thing's for sure, it will be an interesting season.

(1) Billups was Finals MVP two seasons ago.

(2) I agree, although Odom > Peja. Al could maybe fall in that category as well. And it would take him less time to get accustomed to the system.

(3) If Danny doesn't play well, we're screwed anyway. Hulk needs to PLAY to play WELL.

sweabs
12-13-2005, 07:31 PM
No mediocre Mo Peterson-type players.

Ouch, that hurts so much.

If you recall, my MoPete idea had nothing to do with Ron Artest, and had everything to do with finding a better 3rd option to replace Stephen Jackson.

That said, I think the Pacers would be lucky to get a guy of Mo Pete's calibur for Artest straight up at this point. If they want to get anyone of more value, they'll have to throw in guys like Tinsley and Jackson.

If that happens, maybe we can get Bosh, right!!!

Frank Slade
12-13-2005, 07:38 PM
No doubt the NBA season is so long and unpredictable.

Who can predict what will happen, good or bad by the All-star break , let alone by the playoffs.

I understand the thought of losing a Talent like Artest.

However who's to say how the starting lineup (whatever that will be).
Will perform without him.

Especially if this team takes on an even younger lineup.

More of Harrison, Granger Sarunas , and perhaps the unknown future Pacers..
This team could a quick turn for the better or worse for that matter.

It's so pointless though to speculate now given the current circumstances..

Harmonica
12-13-2005, 07:44 PM
It depends on who we get. If Donnie gets offers of Odom or Al and instead decides to go young, then even he doesn't think we have a chance anymore. But it's premature to say we're completely out of the hunt unitl we see what we get for Ron.

Not exactly. This team without Ron is a slight upgrade over last year's team without Ron, and that team took the Pistons to 6 in the playoffs. And don't believe everything you read regarding Donnie right now. You can rest assured that he is looking at the hand he's been dealt and will be bluffing for all he's worth. Anyone that takes his statements right now at face value or think that some yahoos from Cold Pizza have the lo-down on what he is doing or will do need a reality check. With a tweak or two, we'll be right back in it.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 07:47 PM
Ouch, that hurts so much.

If you recall, my MoPete idea had nothing to do with Ron Artest, and had everything to do with finding a better 3rd option to replace Stephen Jackson.

That said, I think the Pacers would be lucky to get a guy of Mo Pete's calibur for Artest straight up at this point. If they want to get anyone of more value, they'll have to throw in guys like Tinsley and Jackson.

If that happens, maybe we can get Bosh, right!!!
???
That wasn't a shot at you, Mo Pete was just the first fitting player who came to mind.
I don't know about Artest's value, you don't know about Artest's value. I don't think anybody does right now. But I'm hoping it's more than you think, because if it's not, I'm sticking to football this year.

Don't really like Bosh. He's a bit soft, a poor defender, and seems to be a stat padder on a bad team plus his neck is long and scary. I'd have more interest in Charlie Vilenueva.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 07:52 PM
(1) Billups was Finals MVP two seasons ago.

(2) I agree, although Odom > Peja. Al could maybe fall in that category as well. And it would take him less time to get accustomed to the system.

(3) If Danny doesn't play well, we're screwed anyway. Hulk needs to PLAY to play WELL.
1. Nothing Chauncey did that series Saras can't do. Chauncey's main attribute is his shooting and big shot ability. Saras is an even better shooter, and if he lives up to his clutch hype, is a comparable big shot maker. And for whats it worth, Chauncey is arguably the worst Finals MVP ever and only won it because, quite frankly, there was noone better to give it to. Chaunceys a very good player, but he's far from great. He's got a lot of flaws. (Mediocre passing/handling, poor rebounder, streaky shooter)

2. I don't know who's better. Peja's a better scorer, Lamar's better everywhere else. I'd take either to be honest. But if we can't get anyone close to either mans level of skill, then we're screwed regardless.

3. Don't understand why we'd be screwed if Granger doesn't play well. He's just a backup getting around 14 minutes a game. As long as he doesn't have to start, any good play we get from Granger is a bonus. And Harrison will get some time, not a lot, but some. If he plays well in that time, he'll get more time. Carisle may be strict but he's not stupid.

bmac
12-13-2005, 07:58 PM
???


Don't really like Bosh. He's a bit soft, a poor defender, and seems to be a stat padder on a bad team plus his neck is long and scary. I'd have more interest in Charlie Vilenueva.

HAHAHA! Thats a good one. Long neck and what not.......Your right though, Bosh sucks and Vilenueva is a much better trade for the Pacers.


Maybe if you were on FRIGGIN CRACK! GOOD LORD MAN ARE YOU NUTS!

SoupIsGood
12-13-2005, 08:09 PM
I'd be for completely rebuilding if it weren't for JO and Saras. These guys are special IMO, we need to contend while they are in their best years.

We might need to do a bit of a rebuilding on the run, and this year may (probably?) be sacrificed, although I really hope not.

We need a solid 8 man rotation, and a few big guys that can toss people around when we get desperate.

I also think Saras is our starting PG. I'm convinced of it, and, given our situation, Tinsley may have too much trade value to keep on the bench.

We've got the big men, now that Cro is playing great. Croshere, O'Neal, and Foster take the big minutes, and Harrison is the luxury big man (for now :(). Pollard could be too, but he's an expiring contract, and he might have to be thrown into a trade.

I think Danny could be fine for us at SF if we add a good scorer at SG. Jack isn't that, it needs to be someone a little better than Jack offensively.

(Of course, Danny developing an offensive game could eliminate this need......)

Jack coming off the bench would be ideal, he would be a great bench player. Hopefully it'd be okay with him too, since he'd get to take a lot of shots in a short period of time.

Saras is our guy for PG. Maybe he isn't as good as Tinsley yet (I'm not sure if he is or not), but the guy is winner and fills a need for us with his shooting. I would be fine with AJ as the limited minutes backup PG, if we could trust Rick to not play him over Saras. We can't though.

I think we'd contend with something like this -

Croshere/Foster/Harrison/
O'Neal/Foster
Granger/Jackson
[GoodScorer]/Jackson
Saras/Somebum

DeS
12-13-2005, 08:31 PM
I'd be for completely rebuilding if it weren't for JO and Saras. These guys are special IMO, we need to contend while they are in their best years.
Indeed, I feel the same way. Just wanted to add, that JO is good off-court leader and a good on-court "leader by example", while Saras is very good floor general on-court leader. In this way they complement each other and i don't think there will be "who's the leader" type chemistry problems.


I would be fine with AJ as the limited minutes backup PG, if we could trust Rick to not play him over Saras. We can't though.
That's for sure :)

Shade
12-13-2005, 08:38 PM
I'd be for completely rebuilding if it weren't for JO and Saras. These guys are special IMO, we need to contend while they are in their best years.

We might need to do a bit of a rebuilding on the run, and this year may (probably?) be sacrificed, although I really hope not.

We need a solid 8 man rotation, and a few big guys that can toss people around when we get desperate.

I also think Saras is our starting PG. I'm convinced of it, and, given our situation, Tinsley may have too much trade value to keep on the bench.

We've got the big men, now that Cro is playing great. Croshere, O'Neal, and Foster take the big minutes, and Harrison is the luxury big man (for now :(). Pollard could be too, but he's an expiring contract, and he might have to be thrown into a trade.

I think Danny could be fine for us at SF if we add a good scorer at SG. Jack isn't that, it needs to be someone a little better than Jack offensively.

(Of course, Danny developing an offensive game could eliminate this need......)

Jack coming off the bench would be ideal, he would be a great bench player. Hopefully it'd be okay with him too, since he'd get to take a lot of shots in a short period of time.

Saras is our guy for PG. Maybe he isn't as good as Tinsley yet (I'm not sure if he is or not), but the guy is winner and fills a need for us with his shooting. I would be fine with AJ as the limited minutes backup PG, if we could trust Rick to not play him over Saras. We can't though.

I think we'd contend with something like this -

Croshere/Foster/Harrison/
O'Neal/Foster
Granger/Jackson
[GoodScorer]/Jackson
Saras/Somebum

He has a name, you know. It's Eddie Gill. :devil:

SoupIsGood
12-13-2005, 08:40 PM
He has a name, you know. It's Eddie Gill. :devil:


NOOOOO!!!!!! BAD MEMORIES

Pistoner
12-13-2005, 08:56 PM
1. Nothing Chauncey did that series Saras can't do. Chauncey's main attribute is his shooting and big shot ability. Saras is an even better shooter, and if he lives up to his clutch hype, is a comparable big shot maker. And for whats it worth, Chauncey is arguably the worst Finals MVP ever and only won it because, quite frankly, there was noone better to give it to. Chaunceys a very good player, but he's far from great. He's got a lot of flaws. (Mediocre passing/handling, poor rebounder, streaky shooter)



Chauncey's main attribute is that he is a smart leader and can manage a game better than most point gaurds in the league. He knows when to shoot and when to pass. His assist to turnover ratio contradicts your contention that he has mediocre passing/handling skills. Not to mention he is clutch and fearless. You know nothing of which you speak.

As for the topic of the thread, The Pacer's are more of a threat now than they were before Artest's latest folly. You are better off without him (my opinion).

Kstat
12-13-2005, 09:08 PM
:lmao:

Someone want to tell me how a "Mediocre passing/handling" point guard can be #1 in the NBA in assist/TO ratio and #3 in assists?

Just a though...... ;)

Hooray for ignorance!

pacerwaala
12-13-2005, 10:08 PM
I am sorry this thread's topic is a moot point because I never thought we ever were contenders even with Ron bcos -

80% of our season starting lineup was made up of mentally fragile, easily combustible hot heads who always whine to the refs and break plays (not all of them do all the things that I mentioned at all the times - so that is why we won a few). We had major chemistry and discipline issues which could be easily exposed in the playoffs. Reggie was the glue and overbearng personality who held this team together - without his quite leadership and rah rah atitiude the pouting and selfishness has come out.

If you watch the Pistons games on NBA league pass, they come to play without any personal agendas and just go about their business. They have the precison of 5 surgeons who work as a TEAM. I always root for them to lose so that we can gain on them in the standings but consistently see them coming back or just taking care of business. They are just so much more disciplined and better than the Pacers.

We look pretty good in stretches but I don't see the concentration and mental fortitude needed to win a championship.

PacerMan
12-13-2005, 10:13 PM
Out of the 3 teams that were after him this will still be the best team even w/o Ron...

This year is pretty much ruined... I say clean house (Tins and Jax) and rebuild around JO, Sarunie, Foster, and Granger (the untouchables)... and compete for the next 10+ years...


Some of you guys are going to look AWFULLY silly in a few months.
Can we pin some of these quotes for future posterity?

Naptown Seth
12-14-2005, 04:15 AM
Chauncey's main attribute is that he is a smart leader and can manage a game better than most point gaurds in the league. He knows when to shoot and when to pass. His assist to turnover ratio contradicts your contention that he has mediocre passing/handling skills. Not to mention he is clutch and fearless. You know nothing of which you speak.
:laugh:

Chauncey Billups is one of the poorest leaders in the NBA. His inability to run a proper offense is the main reason the Pistons offense has been in the toilet the past 4 years He's pretty much an undersized shooting guard playing point guard.
And I can't say I give a damn what he's done through 18 measely games. :laugh: A better observation would be made by looking at his entire career thus far:

4.3 3.3 3.9 3.8 3.0 3.0 3.4 5.5 3.9 5.7 5.8

I'm sure John Stockton is breaking out in a nervous sweat as we speak in anticipation of Chauncey breaking his assist records :laugh:

And yes he has had relatively low number of turnovers in his career, but there's 2 very valid reasons for that:
( 1 ) Rip handles the ball a good amount of the time. As much as I dislike a guy who refuses to take off a protective mask for an injury that happened 2 years ago, the truth is he's got a very solid handle.
( 2 ) The Piston's don't exactly run a "Showtime Lakers" style of basketball :laugh: Kinda hard to get turnovers when your game tempo consists of walking the ball up the court and running half-court offense 90% of the time. It's a style the Pistons run to mask Chauncey's shortcomings - his poor handling and passing. Owned.

Just stop being in denial, and admit what I said was the truth - the only thing Chauncey Billups has that makes him stand out is his shooting and big shot ability. He's average everywhere else. He's the point guard version of Robert Horry.

I just state the facts people. If you're gonna get mad over then you need to stop being rediculous homers.

Puovils
12-14-2005, 05:04 AM
He said they won't be a contender
he is a little :crazy:

317Kim
12-14-2005, 05:17 AM
AAAH! Eddie Gill!!

We'll see ;) about all this being a contender stuff..play the Celtics tonight and WIN..

Will Galen
12-14-2005, 05:44 AM
I don't agree with him. I'll have to defer to William Goldman (writer of Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid) when he said about Hollywood: "Nobody in this town knows nothing."

The same holds true in sports.

Case in point, nobody, and I mean nobody picked the Pistons to win it all two years ago. And even when they made it to the finals, everyone thought the Lakers would have an easy time with them.

So people, just because MM says it's so, doesn't mean it's true. He don't know nothing.

AMEN!