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View Full Version : Right now, they've got enough problems with Stephen Jackson."



Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 05:25 PM
ESPN radio 950 was reporting all morning that Isiah had made that quote, and I was in shock. But it was sloppy reporting by the local guy. Still somewhat interesting


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/v-pfriendly/story/374429p-318240c.html
New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Knicks should get Artest

Tuesday, December 13th, 2005

Out in Detroit, when Larry Brown needed a small forward, he could always go with a complete player, if not a rising star, in Tayshaun Prince. But now when he needs a small forward, Brown has only limited players, just as Lenny Wilkens and Don Chaney had before him.
But really, has any Knick coach been able to send a big-time threat onto the floor at that position since Bernard King played here 20 long years ago? Unfortunately, the franchise that gave us Bill Bradley tries to make do these days with the likes of Quentin Richardson, Malik Rose, Trevor Ariza and Qyntel Woods. Last night at the Garden, Richardson was back from his personal nightmare, the shooting death of his older brother, Lee, and started against the Bucks.

When the bludgeoning was over, it again was obvious that the Knicks don't have Tracy McGrady or anybody close at small forward. That's why they should take a chance and make a run at Ron Artest.

Bringing in Artest, risky as it might be, would be a vast improvement. Come to think of it, anything would have been an upgrade off last night, when the Knicks got five points out of Richardson, five out of Woods and four from Ariza in Milwaukee's 112-92 rout.

Brown didn't harp on the lack of production from his small forward spot. In his postmortem, he went after the point guard position, cleverly never naming names. Given that his team had no direction or leadership - "we don't have anybody with a head," Brown said at one point - it's obvious that if he could bring in a real playmaker and get rid of Stephon Marbury, he'd do it. But who?

At least we know that Artest is available and on Isiah Thomas' radar. Yes, he's acted like a clown half of his career and perpetrated one of the more heinous acts in the history of the league by doing more damage than any other player in that riot in Auburn Hills. But didn't Latrell Sprewell, after his own monumental screwup, come to New York and change his ways? Until he had some run-ins later with Garden CEO Jim Dolan, Sprewell was a model citizen and a very good player, playing out of position at small forward. You'd think that as much grief as Artest has brought on himself, he might be able to change while finally giving the Knicks a genuine talent at small forward.

"Since he's been at Indiana," Brown said, "his reputation has been as a special player, at both ends."

Artest is 26, but is as immature as the next baby. He can't stand the fact that he won't get maximum money from Indiana and will never be its featured player. So, taking the easy route, he wants out. That's the gratitude the Pacers get for giving him their total support when he all but destroyed their season a year ago. Indiana CEO Donnie Walsh said yesterday he wants him gone and he's not alone.

"I fully think management should do their best to move a player that doesn't want to be here," Jermaine O'Neal said. "If he doesn't want to be here, he won't give his full effort."

But you can bet that Artest will give 100%, every night, as a Knick. It has nothing to do with coming home. That, in itself, could be problematic. But he knows he has to resurrect his career, just as Sprewell once did.

"My past was kind of controversial," Artest said. "It's been a distraction. But there are 29 teams out there. I'll take that baggage to one of them."

Good to know he's honest about what he's toting around. His rap sheet - smashing TV monitors, requesting time off to promote his "musical" act, sprinting into the stands at The Palace of Auburn Hills to duke it out with fans - isn't going to stop Isiah Thomas. If he wants to go out and trade for Attila the Hun, he's got Dolan's backing.

The tough part for Thomas will be putting together a package that the Pacers would accept - if they even want to trade Artest to an Eastern Conference team. They're looking for expiring contracts and a young stud and want to get rid of some deadwood in the form of bad contracts.

"The Pacers don't want to take on wild guys who play no defense and who are not controllable," said a person familiar with Indy's thinking. "Right now, they've got enough problems with Stephen Jackson."

Right now, at 6-14, the Knicks have big troubles of their own. Point guard? Sure. But there still isn't a small forward worth your All-Star vote.

Shade
12-13-2005, 05:29 PM
But I thought Artest was our only problem and our chemistry will be like lollypops and rainbows after he is traded...? :(

Harmonica
12-13-2005, 05:31 PM
You'd think that as much grief as Artest has brought on himself, he might be able to change while finally giving the Knicks a genuine talent at small forward.

A woman must have written this article.

Shade
12-13-2005, 05:32 PM
A woman must have written this article.

:lol:

Frank Slade
12-13-2005, 05:37 PM
The Pacers don't want to take on wild guys who play no defense and who are not controllable,"

The funny part is how many of the Knick players is he talking about ?

ABADays
12-13-2005, 05:54 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a marked diference in Jackson now.

Arcadian
12-13-2005, 06:04 PM
Who were the problems when Ron was suspended last year? I expect that a lot of dynamics will go away when Ron does.

Hoop
12-13-2005, 06:05 PM
That's just not true. Jackson may take a few bad shots and make some questionable passes at times, but he always plays hard and plays good defense and is controllable IMO.

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 06:08 PM
Jackson may take a few bad shots and make some questionable passes at times, but he always plays hard and plays good defense


You could say the same thing about Artest

Frank Slade
12-13-2005, 06:10 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a marked diference in Jackson now.

Yes that's a valid statement.. so is "I would not be surprised to see no difference at all in Jackson.."

Although for all the Jackson supporters , that's a good thing..right ?

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 06:12 PM
Now is the time to trade Tinsley, Jax, and Harrison

CableKC
12-13-2005, 06:14 PM
This all depends on what direction that we head in with SJax.....

Does Bird/Carlisle make him the 2nd scoring option ( and therefore go for a player that has traditionally been the 3rd/4th wheel that can hopefully provide some contributions to the team while not on the floor )?

or

Do we push SJax back to the 3rd scoring option ( and therefore go for the Odom/Rashard/Peja type of players whose primary contributions are offensive in nature )?

I think that SJax would be better utilized as a 2nd scoring option........despite probably being the best 3rd scoring option that any team can have. This is because I do accept that he may be very talented but the type of player that has to be effectively used in the offense in order to get the most out of him.

If that is the case....then I think that the Butler/Jeffries option may not be that bad.....although I would still like to have a backup PF/C that can simply rebound to shore up the rebounding deficiency that we have.

I think SJax will still make stupid mistakes.....but I think that keeping him happy as the 2nd scoring option....I hope that it may keep him focused and competitive.

Harmonica
12-13-2005, 06:16 PM
Now is the time to trade Tinsley, Jax, and Harrison

Tinsley, yes. Harrison, perhaps, but only because he's not integral to the team yet and could be part of a package. Jackson, I don't think so.

Hoop
12-13-2005, 06:20 PM
You could say the same thing about ArtestBut I don't think Jackson is crazy. Jackson does have a ring and was the 3rd leading scorer on a championship team. He was one of our most consistent players last season.

A team of all "milk drinkers" is not going to win anything. :laugh:

Frank Slade
12-13-2005, 06:23 PM
Jackson :goodevil: Artest

Ok got it.. thanks

Pacesetter
12-13-2005, 06:36 PM
I think Jackson will eventually be traded if he doesn't wisen up. You can't go running your mouth off every time you've got a wild hair up your ***, just because you think you didn't get a call you felt you deserved, and you certainly can't flex (publicly) on the team captain. DUH!

I hope he does get it straight though, but if not, get rid of him. Clean house! My tolerance for the absurd has red-lined too long. I can't take much more disrespect to the game, that's not why I enjoy basketball. If we can't find decent talent within the resources available (college, free agents, europe, asia, etc ... ) then something has to be done more efficiently at the upper levels.

sweabs
12-13-2005, 06:39 PM
Now is the time to trade Tinsley, Jax, and Harrison

You've really changed philosophies now that Artest is gone. I guess you've experienced the pain first hand and never want to go through it again...and I'm with you.

You, and I alike, seem to have hinged a lot of this team's success on Artest's shoulders this year - and if he's going then some other changes have to be made as well to compensate for his loss.

Am I right?

CableKC
12-13-2005, 06:48 PM
Now is the time to trade Tinsley, Jax, and Harrison

The only way that we should blow up the team now with a SJax/Tinsley/Artest single deal is if we can get the type of players that Walsh/Bird wants to build around JONeal/Sarunas/Granger/Foster.....which is highly unlikely given the type of talent that we would probably have to get back to make things work.

If we can't get that type of deal....then I think we should go add the pieces that we can get from dumping Artest and make a run for it this season.

As Reggie said.....we don't need to get back equal value for Artest since we were somewhat decent without him last season. It may just be getting a few pieces to fill the holes that we need to make it over the hump.

If things don't work out.....Walsh/Bird can deal SJax/Tinsley during the offseason for the pieces that they feel can make the difference. Either way...if we don't make it to the Championship ( which seems unlikely either way )...SJax and Tinsley can be dealt ( either now...or after the season )...at least trying to make a run for it this season with them....we have a chance at an acceptable Playoff run.

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 07:14 PM
You've really changed philosophies now that Artest is gone. I guess you've experienced the pain first hand and never want to go through it again...and I'm with you.

You, and I alike, seem to have hinged a lot of this team's success on Artest's shoulders this year - and if he's going then some other changes have to be made as well to compensate for his loss.

Am I right?


Exactly right. The team was built around Ron and J.O.

For example the center spot needs an upgrade now.

ChicagoJ
12-13-2005, 08:48 PM
Exactly right. The team was built around Ron and J.O.

For example the center spot needs an upgrade now.


Well, the center spot has actually needed an upgrade for a while now.

But who are you going to get that's better than Harrison?

Nobody.

And would Rick use them even if we got an upgrade at center in return? Primoz Brezec - does that name sound familiar?

I agree that if SJax and Freddie "ballhog" Jones were shown the door now that I'd be okay with that too, but "Fifteen new players" notwithstanding, I'm not ready to give up on Tinsley or Harrison yet.

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 08:53 PM
Well, the center spot has actually needed an upgrade for a while now.

But who are you going to get that's better than Harrison?

Nobody.

And would Rick use them even if we got an upgrade at center in return? Primoz Brezec - does that name sound familiar?

I agree that if SJax and Freddie "ballhog" Jones were shown the door now that I'd be okay with that too, but "Fifteen new players" notwithstanding, I'm not ready to give up on Tinsley or Harrison yet.


Better than Harrison? Croshere, Foster and Pollard are better than harrison right now. I suppose you mean potential. I don't think DH will ever realize even half of his potential

ChicagoJ
12-13-2005, 09:12 PM
Not sitting on the bench, getting sporadic minutes, he won't.

+ + +

Tell ya what, let's dump Artest, Jackson, Jones and Carlisle. Then start over with and eight-man rotation of ...
Tinsley/New guy/Granger/JO/Harrison/Saras/New Guy/Foster.

With the right coach, I'm okay with that. A contender this season, probably not (although I'd see the exact same result as last season - losing in the second round in six games.) But by next season, if Granger and Harrison turn into the players we think they can become, and Saras has a full year in the NBA under his belt, then look out...

Rick, however, is not the right coach for that particular team.

SoupIsGood
12-13-2005, 09:15 PM
Not sitting on the bench, getting sporadic minutes, he won't.

+ + +

Tell ya what, let's dump Artest, Jackson, Jones and Carlisle. Then start over with and eight-man rotation of ...
Tinsley/New guy/Granger/JO/Harrison/Saras/New Guy/Foster.

With the right coach, I'm okay with that. A contender this season, probably not (although I'd see the exact same result as last season - losing in the second round in six games.) But by next season, if Granger and Harrison turn into the players we think they can become, and Saras has a full year in the NBA under his belt, then look out...

Rick, however, is not the right coach for that particular team.

I like this idea too, especially if [newguys] aren't half bad....


http://www.terra.com.mx/galeria_de_fotos/images/108/215467.jpg


SVG?


Just tossing it out there....

Pacesetter
12-13-2005, 09:21 PM
Stan's got family issues apparently. If he gets them sorted out, I'd like for him to be one of the assistants, but I am not at all ready to part with Coach Carlisle. He may have some adjustments to make in order for his magic to take effect, but I'm a fan of his, and I wouldn't want him going elsewhere. Ronnie said it all when he said Coach was a good coach! There's just some things I wished he did to open up the game a little more, but it's all a big give and take, and no one knows that better than an NBA coach, for which I am NOT!

Bring in Stan Van Gundy as an Assistant Coach and he might bring a really positive slant on our team. I like him.

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 09:21 PM
Not sitting on the bench, getting sporadic minutes, he won't.

+ + +

Tell ya what, let's dump Artest, Jackson, Jones and Carlisle. Then start over with and eight-man rotation of ...
Tinsley/New guy/Granger/JO/Harrison/Saras/New Guy/Foster.

With the right coach, I'm okay with that. A contender this season, probably not (although I'd see the exact same result as last season - losing in the second round in six games.) But by next season, if Granger and Harrison turn into the players we think they can become, and Saras has a full year in the NBA under his belt, then look out...

Rick, however, is not the right coach for that particular team.


who would coach

indygeezer
12-13-2005, 09:22 PM
Better than Harrison? Croshere, Foster and Pollard are better than harrison right now. I suppose you mean potential. I don't think DH will ever realize even half of his potential

The funny thing is I remember reading somewhere recently that Bo Outlaw could be had. I kinda think he'd fill a slot here nicely.

SoupIsGood
12-13-2005, 09:33 PM
Where is Stan's family? In Florida, or did he have to move and keep them in a different state? Just wondering if the travel distance could be the stressor.

Bball
12-13-2005, 10:15 PM
Is New Guy on the All Stat ballot? Can play 2 positions at once, huh? Wow :eek:

-Bball

PacerMan
12-13-2005, 10:28 PM
Now is the time to trade Tinsley, Jax, and Harrison


No it's not.

Kegboy
12-13-2005, 11:05 PM
Harkening back to my coaching archtypes, Stan's a strategist, which makes him better than Jeff, strictly a tactician, in my book. He'd be a good influence on Rick, and perhaps the need for a leader isn't as great with Nutcase gone and JO stepping up.

However, Stan won't go back to the second chair. X's-and-O's guys can go back to being assistants, but not big picture guys. I fully expect him to take the George Karl route. Do some guest TV, sign with ESPN as their "coach" next year, and talk himself into a respectable gig where he has some say over personnel matters.

Plus, even after yesterday, he's a Riley guy, which means Larry will never hire him. I'm sure Donnie would love to have him, but Bird's too territorial about such things.