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Julius Sour
12-13-2005, 08:41 AM
It was the first time that I wasn't lazy to check spelling. So, it took time. When I was done with editing of my post - thread was gone out of sight...so many new ones.

Odom. I like him, I enjoy watch him play (his passing abilities still wonder me) and, finnaly (correct me if I'm wrong), he has no identity crisis.

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Cut Bird some slack. He's probably over there getting us another "Best Player in Europe".


Then, PEJA is that player.

As a Serbian he needs challenging enviroment. Almost all ex-Yugo Rep. players will bloom in a challenging enviroment - contending team, and will wither if they are in such situation as Kings are at the moment. No doubt, he is among the top 3 europeans (active) that have have entered the and entrenched in NBA during last 5 years (in XXI century :) ).


Since 1995 Eurochamps finals between LTU-YUG, they (YUG) were our fiercest rivals on the basketball court. Last decade has brought us some real drama with those rencounters. Those teams were totaly dominating europe, also wining titles and medals at the worldwide competitions. Situation has changed a bit these days: S&M NT is struggling against difficulties brought by the change of the players generation. They didn't win anything significant for the last 2 - 3 years. I can't even imagine how PEJA is suffering because of the lack of competetivness on both Kings and National teams.

Sabas, Peja, Runi The 1st (Sarunas Marciulionis), Runi The 2nd (Cabbagge), Vlade, Drazen (Rest eternal), Kukoc, Jaric - they all have one common "feature" - their game improves in geometrical progression depending on how hard/tough/intencive/decisive the moment is. They have proved that in Europe, some of them took the occasion to prove it over the seas.

PEJA can make his teammates better, but at he moment he NEADS a better team. He's unmotivated. Kings are rebuilding. Upcoming couple of seasons WILL BE A SUCCES IF THEY MAKE IT THROUGH THE FIRST ROUND OF PLAY OFFs. PEJA knows that. He also knows that if he will be pushing to the limit, and will ad some extra 4-6 pts. 1-2 rebs and 1.5 - 2 assists to todays averages it still will be not enough to reach that level - stage of the competitions, that unfolds his talent by all 100 and 5 percent. Also the strain of 30-48 mins of PT will shorten his career. Sad to say, but "Stars" of the european bball in contradistinction to majority of NBAs afroamerican "Stars" much more value gold than green, play basketball to satisfy their hunger for victories, not to feed their families. You know what I'm talking about.

In Europe BASKETBALL is about playing for a WIN. Guys like Saras, Sabas, Maci were not playing basketball for free, they all had/have enough money not to work anymore. Their move to NBA is/was caused by search of new challenges, chance to compete for new Trophy, not to be highlited on ESPN, to sign MultiMegaBilion sportswear contract... or to be puled of by thei SHOE out of the drinkmachine. PLAY&WIN.


Back 2 Peja.

He also WOULD HELP WITH SARAS ADDOPTATION.

They Both Need Rings - the only trophy that still attracts them in club competition.

PEJA can do PG spot if needed.

SJax+Jones+Saras+Peja 3pt. shooting should compensate Regie's absence, maybe even strenthen this field comparing to last 2 seasons. {bonus} JO will have more room in the paint - opposing team's defence will be forced to expand all the way up to arch. At some points of the game Rick could have 3 players, that can do perimeter shots (2 of them are able of scoring on each second attempt :)

He is deep in the principals of teamplay/game system that Saras is trying to bring to Pacers.

He needs a change.

He needs a team that could offer him conditions alowing him to do "what he's best at". Pacers can give him that option.


There is "euro no defence" issue. He and Saras know ZoneDefence very well. ZoneD is realy VOCAL THING. So, Them both on the floor could turn into well organised ZoneD.

I still think that Maggette could be "Ron Upgraded - bug fix patch", but when I've ran through some of the issues that are listed above. And all that "Chemistry absence" you are pointing to since the start of the season. PEJA has won enough titles (acctualy even more than Saras has in international competitions) to have that "WINNER" mentality, that we all admire in Saras.

Js

Reggie4Three
12-13-2005, 09:21 AM
If we can still get Peja for Ron, I'm for it. Peja has his faults, but we can't hope for too much better than him. If we can get Odom, Peja, or Battier, we should all be thrilled.

Willbo
12-13-2005, 09:26 AM
Dont want to start a new thread, and i recognise it likely wont happen given the coach. However what about Carlos Boozer? Utah fans want him gone, all indications are he is gettable. Would a frontline of himself and JO work? Is this a thread hi-jack? Should i have started a new thread? Is there a record for consecutive questions?

scar
12-13-2005, 09:27 AM
Dont want to start a new thread, and i recognise it likely wont happen given the coach. However what about Carlos Boozer? Utah fans want him gone, all indications are he is gettable. Would a frontline of himself and JO work? Is this a thread hi-jack? Should i have started a new thread? Is there a record for consecutive questions?

I don't want Boozer because I believe he's damaged goods. If he's healthy, then hell yeah, but I don't think he's capable of playing a full season or anything close to it, and the last thing I want to do is obtain another injury prone player to the already growing list of injury prone Pacers.

Skaut_Ech
12-13-2005, 09:46 AM
Just out of curiousity I tried the trade checker on RealGM. Financially a trade of Artest/Fred Jones(or Anthony Johnson) for Peja/Jamal Sampson works.

I could live with that.

Justinas
12-13-2005, 02:06 PM
PEJA has won enough titles (acctualy even more than Saras has in international competitions) to have that "WINNER" mentality, that we all admire in Saras.

NT competitions
Šarūnas Jasikevičius - 2003 European Championships.
Предраг Стојаковић - 2001 European Championships, 2002 World Championships.

European Club competitions
Šarūnas Jasikevičius - 3 Euroleague titles.
Предраг Стојаковић - none.

Kstat
12-13-2005, 02:13 PM
As a Serbian he needs challenging enviroment. Almost all ex-Yugo Rep. players will bloom in a challenging enviroment

Let me guess: the NBA playoffs weren't "challenging" enough? :laugh:

Rytas_Jega
12-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Let me guess: the NBA playoffs weren't "challenging" enough? :laugh:

I don't know why, but these days Serbians are not interested in playoff games. They usually fail to get to quater-finals stage (2003 European Championships, 2004 Sydney Olympics, 2005 European Championships). Maybe FIBA should put somehow favourites straight to the finals, preventing them to play those meaningless group stage and playoff games.


Julisu _Sour, here are Stojakovic's stats in the NBA:
Regular season: 18.4 ppg fg: 46% tp: 40%
Playoff: 17.3 ppg fg: 42% tp: 35%

Kstat
12-13-2005, 02:37 PM
.....or maybe it's because Serbians are the closest thing to Americans in the basketball world. Their egos are so huge they don't care much anymore about international play.

Keep in mind Yugoslavia was at the forefront of basketball before anybody else in Europe. There are 2nd-generation and 3rd-generation NBA Serbs now, and no other country can say that.

Plain and simple, they've been at the top of european basketball for so long, they got bored with it, like the US has.

So now, you see Serbia sending a 2nd-rate team just like america does, because none of their best players want to waste a summer doing it.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 02:43 PM
Peja would be a great edition to the team. Sure he's not close to the defender Ron is, but he's a much, much better offensive player. Our offense with J.O. inside, Peja and Saras outside, and Jackson a little of both, would be dynamite.

Slick Pinkham
12-13-2005, 02:47 PM
The last thing I want to do is obtain another injury prone player to the already growing list of injury prone Pacers.

In college Boozer never missed a game. As a rookie he appeared in all 81
games. In his second year he played 75 games-- not sure why he missed 6 games.

Anyway, before his current sever hamstring injury I am not aware of any injury issues at all. If this injury heals and he is good to go, I say get him. It does mean that JO is a permanent 5, because Boozer is too small for a 5.

But-- I'd prefer Peja.

I like shooters!

Mordecaii
12-13-2005, 02:57 PM
I'm pretty sure some of his disappearing in the playoffs is due to the other team shutting him down because they know he's pretty much the biggest threat on Sacramento...

Reggie4Three
12-13-2005, 03:06 PM
Peja brings something to the table, which is more than what we're getting in alot of these other offers. We can nitpick and say he's a bad defender, or that he's not clutch. Even if those are 100% valid, he still is better than alot of the other garbage being bantered about.

Kstat
12-13-2005, 03:06 PM
I'm pretty sure some of his disappearing in the playoffs is due to the other team shutting him down because they know he's pretty much the biggest threat on Sacramento...

No, it's because he can't do anything besides shoot. Take his jumper away and he can't beat you any other way.

Slick Pinkham
12-13-2005, 03:07 PM
Peja hasn't missed a game in the last 6 years.

Yes, 6 years.

His career playoff average is 1PPG less than in the regular season, due to one very bad postseason when he was playing hurt. It's not like he goes from 20 ppg to 10.

If this is an option, it's a great one. You guys will really be shaking your heads when we settle for Mark Madsen and a second round pick, or something like that.

Kstat
12-13-2005, 03:13 PM
Yeah, that open shot he took to send the Kings to the finals in 2002 that hit the TOP OF THE BACKBOARD was pretty pathetic....

Peja just can't handle pressure. It's been proven over and over.

Moses
12-13-2005, 03:18 PM
Yeah, that open shot he took to send the Kings to the finals in 2002 that hit the TOP OF THE BACKBOARD was pretty pathetic....

Peja just can't handle pressure. It's been proven over and over.
I'm sure he can handle it a hell of alot better then Ronnie could.

I'd take Peja any day of the week over alot of this other bs everyone is talking about. I don't want 4 players..Just give me a quality guy like Peja/Odom/Battier or at least some promising rookies.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 03:22 PM
Not Peja, God please no.

One dimensional, limited defense, and disappears in the playoffs.



No thanks
I disagree with this.

1 dimensional offensively, but he's as good as anybody in the world at that 1 dimension. Peja's awesome shooting makes him one of the NBA's top-10 offensive threats, and his offense is much more efficient then Ron's ever was which means we instantly become a much better offensive team. I'm not sure if any team in the league would have two players as efficient on offense as we would have with Peja and Saras. Maybe the Suns, but I don't think so.
As for his D, yeah, we wouldn't be as good a defesive team with Peja, but we'd still be above average which is fine. Rebounding wise and passing/handling wise Peja is about even with Artest, so no +/- there.

It's basically just an offense/defense swap. When you factor in getting rid of Artest and his chemistry problems, I think it would make us a better team in the long run so I'm all for it.

Hoop
12-13-2005, 03:23 PM
I didn't like the Peja trade idea at first, but seeing some of the crap we could get stuck with, I'd take Peja and be happy.

Kstat
12-13-2005, 03:31 PM
I mean, I'm pretty much begging the Kings to get Peja, because Tayshaun owns him on both ends of the court like no other player in the league, (pretty much like Ron owns Pierce) but I'm trying to be considerate....

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 03:40 PM
Thats all fine and dandy, but when his one diminsion is shut down, what he can bring to the table?

NOTHING.

So while that one dimension may be "as good as anybody in the world", it does is no good when he cant hit a shot
Peja is next to impossible to be shut down. He can hit the shot with a man in his face just as easily as he can hit if he's wide open.
Shutting down a 22 ppg, 47/44/92 player is easier said then done my friend.

Rytas_Jega
12-13-2005, 03:41 PM
So now, you see Serbia sending a 2nd-rate team just like america does, because none of their best players want to waste a summer doing it.

:hmm:

Sorry, I do not see.

What great players did they miss in the last European Championships? Stojakovic. The only one.

Dejan Bodiroga, Marko Jaric, Vladimir Radmanovic, Nenad Krstic, Zeljko Rebraca, Darko Milicic, Igor Rakocevic, Dejan Tomasevic were all on the roster. Motivation? They played at home.

nevermind
12-13-2005, 03:55 PM
I dont know why I bother arguing with you, its impossible to win.

But if he was "impossible" to shut down, clearly he would have many a big shots and a championship ring, my friend..

How many rings does Steve Nash has? Or Karl Malone? If he was easy to shutdown he wouldn't be averaging 17 PPG would he? I mean what a stupid you have to be to let 17 point to your basket if you can easily shut him down?

Slick Pinkham
12-13-2005, 03:57 PM
A year and a half ago, or whenever it was, I thought that Peja for Ron wasn't a good move. Not enough return. My opinion has changed.

Pre brawl Ron had value. Post brawl he had none. Now he has a tiny amount.

We will get a nobody, we will get future potential i.e. draft picks, or we will get a player who has a little baggage with his current team.

Of all the players with baggage, Peja's seems the least significant. The Kings are just rebuilding and thought he would carry more of a load. He can't-- he is what he is. He likely won't be an all-star again. But he can stretch the defense every bit as much as Reggie did in recent years. paired with players like Jermaine, Saras, and Jackson (if he stays) who don't mind taking big shots-- in sharp contrast to C-Webb-- Peja will likely be as big a threat in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 04:00 PM
I dont know why I bother arguing with you, its impossible to win.

But if he was "impossible" to shut down, clearly he would have many a big shots and a championship ring, my friend..
It's impossible to win because I actually speak the truth and form my own opinions using facts instead of hopping on whatever the latest board-wide opinion of a player is.
Every player can be "shut down" - duh. Kobe get's somewhat "shut down" by Artest whenever we play the Lakers. So why you've choosen to mention a 22 ppg, 47/43/92 player can be shut down is beyond me. Peja is one of the 10 hardest players in the league to stop from scoring, period.

Skaut_Ech
12-13-2005, 04:27 PM
A year and a half ago, or whenever it was, I thought that Peja for Ron wasn't a good move. Not enough return. My opinion has changed.

Pre brawl Ron had value. Post brawl he had none. Now he has a tiny amount.

We will get a nobody, we will get future potential i.e. draft picks, or we will get a player who has a little baggage with his current team.

Of all the players with baggage, Peja's seems the least significant. The Kings are just rebuilding and thought he would carry more of a load. He can't-- he is what he is. He likely won't be an all-star again. But he can stretch the defense every bit as much as Reggie did in recent years. paired with players like Jermaine, Saras, and Jackson (if he stays) who don't mind taking big shots-- in sharp contrast to C-Webb-- Peja will likely be as big a threat in the playoffs as he is in the regular season.


Thats all fine and dandy, but when his one diminsion is shut down, what he can bring to the table?

NOTHING.

So while that one dimension may be "as good as anybody in the world", it does is no good when he cant hit a shot

I think these days it's impossible to "shut someone down" Especially not for an entire playoff series. I'll also add that I think the arguement s aginst Peja sounds suspiciously like description of Reggie. Funny, huh? "One dimensional shooter", "Can play D" , etc.

I've done a turnaround about Peja, same as Tom.

Some of you guys have to remember these guys don't play in a vaccum. Peja on the Kings may be a totally different player than Peja as a Pacer.

People called Billups a chump....until he became a Piston. Vince Carter...a has been. Ricky Davis...a knucklehad showboat. I personally think environment is a huge factor on a player's game.

I thin the Spurs are a prime example of making a player fit the system, not the other way around. I think Peja would thrive in our system....s long as Stephen didn't get resentful of having shots taken from him.

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 04:28 PM
My point was simple, if he was such an amazing talen he would have at least one right by now.

As for the others, I used to be a closet Kings fan. They had lots of talent, more so then Nash ever had around him. They still never won jack. And Malone just had the dis-service of playing in the same era as Jordan.
Nobody saying he's a fantastic do-it-all player. We're (mainly me, I guess) are just saying of all things you wanna question with Peja, scoring is not one of them. The mans an offensive machine. And yeah, a good defender can affect his game, but a good defender can affect anyones game. If he was so easy to shut down as you say he is, then explain to me how he's gotten approx. 22 ppg on 47/43/92 the past 3 years?

As for the Kings, they've been a lot like us the past few years - a lot of untimely injuries. Was there ever a playoff run during the past 5 years where Sacramento didn't have atleast 2 signigant injuries? Combine that with questionable coaching, and an overrated point guard, and it's not that hard to see why Sacramento's never went anywhere after that game 7 conference finals loss to the Lakers.

Skaut_Ech
12-13-2005, 04:35 PM
My point was simple, if he was such an amazing talen he would have at least one right by now.



I gotta tell ya, I absolutely HATE when people trot out that tired arguement. I won't bother to list the ton's of HOF talent players without rings. I think that is the weakest arguement for how good a player is/was.

Team game.

If we were talking tennis, or golf, or bowling, or any single player sports, I'd think you have an arguement, but that's strikes me as back to the wall counter arguing and I don't personally think it's a fair or accurate accessment of a player's talent.

Not trying to pick on ya, va, but try another tact. I find that stance to be in the top five of lame responses to a player's talent.

And as for Reggie being clutch, I'm looking for the ring on his finger.....(using your barometer) :)

Like I said, and you seemingly ignored, ENVIRONMENT is a huge factor. Clutch or no clutch.

Slick Pinkham
12-13-2005, 04:38 PM
He doesnt crash the boards.

His career rebounds per game is actually just a tad better than Ron Artest's.

Disclaimer: Ron is a poor rebounder (4.8 rpg), and so is Peja (4.9).

Unclebuck
12-13-2005, 05:16 PM
I still don't want Peja. But I know a lineup that includes Peja and Saras will be a great shooting team

BillS
12-13-2005, 05:16 PM
Right, so I still stand by my above comment, what does he do when his shot isnt falling?.....

Ummm ... not break cameras?

nevermind
12-13-2005, 05:27 PM
Right, so I still stand by my above comment, what does he do when his shot isnt falling?.....

Sit on the bench :)
And about a ring... maybe he'll get one if he comes to Pacers :)))).
But what any other player (guard or small forward) can do if his shot isn't falling? For example S. JAX? Or Reggie?

Slick Pinkham
12-13-2005, 05:46 PM
Do you want to look at his numbers?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/23333

Peja gets a bad rap about postseason performance because in the 2002 playoff he played hurt, played poorly, scored 6.4 ppg below his season average, and missed key shots in the process.

I crunched the numbers. If you study his playoff performance in each of the other 4 seasons since he became a starter, his playoff average is 20.8 ppg and his regular season average is 21.1 ppg over those same 4 years. Statistically identical. Team scoring goes down in the playoffs too.

He also had some excellent playoff performances, how about 23.1 ppg, shooting 48% from the field, 46% from 3-point range?

If someone told you that Artest was being traded for a 28-year-old 3-time all star you all would say wow, until you heard it was Peja. I don’t understand it. He is, granted, not a complete player. I’d rather have 30 other guys. None of them are remotely available for our Mo-Ron.

Kestas
12-13-2005, 05:47 PM
Dont want to start a new thread, and i recognise it likely wont happen given the coach. However what about Carlos Boozer? Utah fans want him gone, all indications are he is gettable. Would a frontline of himself and JO work? Is this a thread hi-jack? Should i have started a new thread? Is there a record for consecutive questions?

I think there ws one Utah fan who was suggesting Boozer on those boards, but it was so funny (for him as well), that it brought a smile to my face just remembering it ;)
in other words, Boozer is not the optimal solution. but realistically speaking Pacers would be fine with pretty much any above-average player out there imho. preferably not somebody, who needs a permanent starting position imho..
besides, the management will get the deal whey want even if you all guys are against it or haven't thought about it.

k

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 05:55 PM
Kestas, how popular is Peja in Europe? Would he and Saras on the same team make the Pacers the most popular NBA team in Europe?

Rytas_Jega
12-13-2005, 06:36 PM
how popular is Peja in Europe? Would he and Saras on the same team make the Pacers the most popular NBA team in Europe?

He's quite popular. NBA ASG voting results of the last seasons confiirm that. Of course, far from Ginobili (Argentinian/Italian) and Nowitzki.

However, I know there're are many Europeans (not only Lithuanians) who do not like Yugoslavians for two major finals (1995 European Championship and 2002 World Championship) where referees helped natives of FIBA boss Borislav Stankovic much.

I guess the Pacers would be the most popular NBA team in Europe.

Kestas
12-13-2005, 07:49 PM
Kestas, how popular is Peja in Europe? Would he and Saras on the same team make the Pacers the most popular NBA team in Europe?

Peja's stock has dropped after he failed to play for Serbia in some recent tournamnets. for Olympic games, i think, he reported to the Greek Army (he has Greek citizenship), for Eurochamps he.. I don't know, he just did not come to the training camp on time, I guess.. that undoubtedly hurt his popularity.
players like Kirilenko, Gasol, Nowitzki and even Parker (who is average imho) look to me like more noticable European representatives in NBA.
btw, I have no idea which team is the most popular in Europe (San Antonio?), but even with the shortcomings of Peja Indy would become a considerable contender for this "title" imho. and if there was a poll on NBA.com, Indy would probably win it even without Peja :laugh:
btw, NBA and ULEB are starting a project together and it'll include 4 NBA teams playing friendlies in Europe with local clubs and then two of those teams (76ers and Suns for the next season) will have a mini tournament with Euroleague finalists from the previous season. it'll take place in the begining of October (team will still be out of shape). if Indy could secure a place in this sometime in the future, they would see their popularity increasing rather signifficantly. and with Peja and Saras on the team Indy would probably be invited if they only wanted.

however, I think it would be plain awesome if Pacers could get Peja. Saras would probably make him a star again. or maybe not, I base my opinion mainly on stereotypes I have.

k