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View Full Version : Ben Wallace Is Declining In A Hurry



Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 04:52 AM
Has anyone else noticed how rapidly Ben Wallace appears to be declining? Take a look at the numbers....

9.0 points per game - his lowest in 3 years
11.5 rebounds per game - his lowest in 6 years (final year in Orlando)
1.7 blocks per game - his lowest in 6 years (final year in Orlando)

He's clearly not the player he was just 2 years ago. He's still a very good defender, but not even a top-5 contender for Defensive Player of the Year in my opinion. Part of the reason for his rapid decline is that he's a player that relies on physical superiority as opposed to a higher skill level. Those type of players usually decline faster do to their age.

So how does this bode for the future of the Pistons/Paers rivalry? Obviously if we can't get a good player for Artest, then it's unlikely we'll be able to beat them this year, however with their team being much older then ours, how much longer do you think they'll be able to play at such a high level?

Eindar
12-13-2005, 07:13 AM
Has anyone else noticed how rapidly Ben Wallace appears to be declining? Take a look at the numbers....

9.0 points per game - his lowest in 3 years
11.5 rebounds per game - his lowest in 6 years (final year in Orlando)
1.7 blocks per game - his lowest in 6 years (final year in Orlando)

He's clearly not the player he was just 2 years ago. He's still a very good defender, but not even a top-5 contender for Defensive Player of the Year in my opinion. Part of the reason for his rapid decline is that he's a player that relies on physical superiority as opposed to a higher skill level. Those type of players usually decline faster do to their age.

So how does this bode for the future of the Pistons/Paers rivalry? Obviously if we can't get a good player for Artest, then it's unlikely we'll be able to beat them this year, however with their team being much older then ours, how much longer do you think they'll be able to play at such a high level?

It's interesting you bring this up. I've heard the magic age for most "hustle" players out there is 29. That's when they start losing the ability to bring it at that high level every night, and as such, what made them special goes away. Ben Wallace is the ultimate hustle guy, with an unbelievable nose for the ball. While the knack for being in the right place at the right time will always be there, the ability to get there quick enough has gone or will go with time. You could say that it's his age catching up to him (31). Of course, you could also say that Flip's sets are causing him to be further away from the glass or something to that effect.

I guess I won't really be sure until I see him more on live TV, and also when I see the stats at the end of the season.

EDIT: In defense of Kstat, I should also point out that he hasn't played this few minutes since the 01-02 season, which is the year after all those lows you posted. I bet if you convert all his stats into per 48 mins, this year wouldn't jump out as much...except for the blocks per game stat, which, again, could be attributed to a different style of defense.

SoupIsGood
12-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Wow, JO's and Ben's rebounding number are pretty much even, and JO is actually blokcing more shots.

Fool
12-13-2005, 09:02 AM
I'm probably going to start a thread sort of like this, sooner or later on a Piston board.

Saying he's hurt can only go so far because the greater frequency of injuries plays into the decline.

Anyway, I believe that the most prudent thing is to see if these numbers hold the whole season.

Natston
12-13-2005, 09:05 AM
Artest for Ben Wallace. It works straight up. Maybe we can get Bosh somehow, too.

ndiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes

Anthony Johnson
6-3 PG from Charleston
4.6 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 18.6 minutes

David Harrison
7-0 C from Colorado
2.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 9.9 minutes
Incoming

Ben Wallace
6-9 C from Virginia Union
9.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.4 minutes

Chris Bosh
6-10 PF from Georgia Tech
22.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 39.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +4.2 ppg, +12.8 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Detroit Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Ben Wallace
6-9 C from Virginia Union
9.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 35.4 minutes

Carlos Arroyo
6-2 PG from Florida International
4.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.5 apg in 14.8 minutes
Incoming

Anthony Johnson
6-3 PG from Charleston
4.6 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 18.6 minutes

David Harrison
7-0 C from Colorado
2.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 9.9 minutes

Alvin Williams
6-5 PG from Villanova
1.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -5.0 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and -2.3 apg.

Toronto Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Alvin Williams
6-5 PG from Villanova
1.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.0 minutes

Chris Bosh
6-10 PF from Georgia Tech
22.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 39.1 minutes
Incoming

Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes

Carlos Arroyo
6-2 PG from Florida International
4.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 3.5 apg in 14.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: +0.8 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and +3.1 apg.


Successful Scenario
Due to Indiana, Detroit, and Toronto being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana, Detroit, and Toronto had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

;)

Shade
12-13-2005, 09:57 AM
Isn't this a contract year for Wallace? Or does he have one more year after this one?

Naptown Seth
12-13-2005, 11:37 AM
T'is the contract year for Mr. Ben Wallace. If his numbers stay this way the rest of the year, it will be very interesting to see what he gets next contract. Would a desperate team offer him the max? And if they did, would the Pistons match it? Or would they go the same way Phoenix went with Joe Johnson - work out a sign & trade so they don't lose him for nothing?

Kstat
12-13-2005, 12:38 PM
Yeah, this couldn't possibly be much more inflammatory....

Cause,it has nothing to do with the fact he's playing on TWO SPRAINED ANKLES or anything....

Big Ben is finished! He's had a poor last few weeks! The Pistons are an average team! Waaaaaaaaaaah!

I won't deny Ben hasn't played up to par, but saying he's on the DECLINE after a bad month is ultimate homerism.

sweabs
12-13-2005, 01:55 PM
Artest for Ben Wallace. It works straight up. Maybe we can get Bosh somehow, too.

Every deal has to have Bosh involved in it...somehow, someway.

I think they'd do it because they suxxor!!!11

Arcadian
12-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Crap! If the Pistons are playing this well with an aging broken down center we may never beat them.