PDA

View Full Version : Are We Still A Championship Contender ?



J_2_Da_IzzO
12-12-2005, 06:51 PM
A lot of people think Artest leaving will help this team more and we will be stronger. We are the in my opinion the 2nd best team in the East with or without Artest.

However, come playoff time when we might have to play Cleveland, New Jersey or Detroit who is going to guard LeBron out the game, RJ out the game or try and take out Prince from the game. We simply cannot afford losing Artest for nothing. We have to try everything possible and get an above average/allstar player by adding other players in the mix.

Peja seems the most likely and even tho I dont like it its better then alot of other possible players I have heard.

We might aswell try for McGrady, worst that could happen is a no. Try for Rashard, Arenas, Jamison or alot of other players before giving in.

Odom is a player I would like to get that is a realistic option after trying to get a player that may mean adding in other assets.

Just put a poll up to see who this board would prefer taking, Peja or Odom. Seems alot of people love Peja but I dont.

Los Angeles
12-12-2005, 06:52 PM
If all of our guys stay healthy and focused, Yes.

I give us about a 5% chance of staying healthy and focused.

Mourning
12-12-2005, 06:58 PM
We certainly are not a championship contender anymore. We're a 2nd tier team ... at best. I want to see how our own team adapts, opposing teams adapt to the new situation and what player(s) we get back and how our rookies keep developing, before I make my final prediction on this.

But, for now, NOPE! We're not contenders at all.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

CompACE
12-12-2005, 07:02 PM
I like odom but i don't see it happenning. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the Pacers prove me wrong though.

Pacesetter
12-12-2005, 07:05 PM
Peanut (Lamar Odom) is NOT what this team needs, imo. (Bad attitude)

Peja might have a fighting chance.

CableKC
12-12-2005, 07:09 PM
How about none of them?

We need a player that can function as a 3rd wheel in the offense....I don't want to read another "SJax is better as a 2nd scoring option" thread!!!!!

ChicagoJ
12-12-2005, 07:15 PM
We were never a contender this season. Not with that knucklehead still around. We couldn't pinpoint exactly what he'd do or when, but destroying his own team is his #1 skill - even moreso than his great lockdown defense.

We've got a much better chance at turning into a contender this season or next than we've had in a number of years now. Admittedly, it could still take some time for these imminent changes to work out for the better. But at least there's finally a legit reason for optimism.

:sunshine:

indygeezer
12-12-2005, 07:19 PM
During the summer get together I told Peck we were a 1st round loser. Now we will prolly win first round...any further depends on who we get back for Ron.

Sollozzo
12-12-2005, 07:21 PM
"Are We Still a Championship Contender?"

U'm, when were we a contender?

I sadly believe that many still hold on to the belief that this team is damned without the great Ron Artest.

This team and Artest were ridiulously overhyped by the media and the fans. The negatives grossly outweigh the positives with Ron Artest.

The Pacers by disactivitating Ron Artest instantly became a much better team. Yeah, yeah, yeah....he plays a physical brand of basketball. Yeah, yeah, yeah, "Ronnie" plays so hard and just wants to win. He was a disgrace to the team. In 10 years, we'll all look back on these few years and wonder why we didn't trade this clown after the broken camera in New York.

Frank Slade
12-12-2005, 07:25 PM
If those are my only choices, Odom

Kstat
12-12-2005, 07:33 PM
In My opinion, Odom is much, much better off as a power forward, because he's no longer quick enough to take smaller players off the dribble. He's proven in LA and Miami that he's much more effective at PF.

For that reason, I'd say Peja, because you don't have a place for Odom. Odom and JO would be way too small a frontline.

Unclebuck
12-12-2005, 08:34 PM
Really we can't answer this because we have no idea who we are going to get.

But I really feel that No we are not a championship contender without him. But I don't think we were one with him. Although we had a better chance with him. But Ron had to go.

Hicks
12-12-2005, 08:36 PM
Right here, right now, no, we're not. But given time to finally gel (With Ron gone I find this much more possible; see last year), and if we get a contributor back for Ron, then we still have a shot to make some real noise.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2005, 08:36 PM
We are going to have a tough time before we are talented enough to be a contender again. Maybe a year, maybe a few more.

Maybe a couple days, if pull a miracle with the Ron trade.

Knucklehead Warrior
12-12-2005, 08:40 PM
I think we have a much better chance to realize our potential now, EVEN IF we only get a bag of cheetos for ron.
Don't overlook the power of the attitude adjustment which may materialize.

Hicks
12-12-2005, 08:42 PM
I can't belive some of you can go from saying we're the deepest, most talented team in the league, to we don't have enough talent to win a title with only the loss of Artest. Artest isn't THAT good, folks. And I'm well aware how talented he is. We have plenty of talent, now we're not overflowing with it, but maybe we have just the right amount. That, plus the chance to form some true chemistry (including the soon to be new guy?) should do wonders for this team.

ChicagoJ
12-12-2005, 08:42 PM
Trading Ron for Granger will pay dividends before this season ends. This isn't the same team as last season. We've already drafted Ron's replacement, remember??

I don't really want the Pacers to get a SF back in the trade, or I suppose they could get a SF that's clearly a backup that can fill in when Granger struggles. But not a Michael Curry type that Rick would put in the starting lineup ahead of Granger.

Sure, he's not ready to be an NBA all-star right now. But that doesn't mean the team is worse off this week than they were last week.

Here's what I'd like: Ron and Fred Jones for a backup SG. I'm thinking about Jon Barry or someone of that caliber.

PG - whatever
SG - SJax - new guy - Saras
SF - Granger - SJax
PF - Croshere - Foster
C - O'Neal - Harrison

Hoop
12-12-2005, 08:43 PM
We took Detroit to 6 games with Ron and without him and we have owned Miami the last 2+ seasons.

So yes, I say we are still a "contender", just not as strong of one as Detroit or SA.

With a key injury to any of the other top teams and some good luck (for a change) we could be right there.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2005, 08:44 PM
I can't belive some of you can go from saying we're the deepest, most talented team in the league, to we don't have enough talent to win a title with only the loss of Artest. Artest isn't THAT good, folks. And I'm well aware how talented he is. We have plenty of talent, now we're not overflowing with it, but maybe we have just the right amount. That, plus the chance for form some true chemistry (including the soon to be new guy?) should do wonders for this team.

If you simply subtract Ron for this team, we go from a deep, talented contender, to a deep, talented, second tier team. Kind of like what the Grizzlies have been in the past few years, and probably are this year.

Now, the guy we get back could change all this.... but I'll wait and see who it is first.

Hicks
12-12-2005, 08:50 PM
If a deep, talented contender can't still be a (not very deep) contender after the loss of one player, they were never that deep to begin with. I think we're at "merely enough" talent level without Artest. Chemistry is more important than talent anyway. We have enough talent to not be handicapped if the chemistry comes through.

Pacesetter
12-12-2005, 08:52 PM
This team is a contender. No doubt about it.

Unclebuck
12-12-2005, 08:57 PM
If you simply subtract Ron for this team, we go from a deep, talented contender, to a deep, talented, second tier team. Kind of like what the Grizzlies have been in the past few years, and probably are this year.

Now, the guy we get back could change all this.... but I'll wait and see who it is first.



Very well said.

Chemistry is very important but if you don't have a certain level of talent you will be exposed in the playoffs. The cream rises in the playoffs, the really good talented players rise to a level that most players can't get.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2005, 08:58 PM
If a deep, talented contender can't still be a (not very deep) contender after the loss of one player, they were never that deep to begin with. I think we're at "merely enough" talent level without Artest. Chemistry is more important than talent anyway. We have enough talent to not be handicapped if the chemistry comes through.


Saras/Tinsley/AJ
Jackson/Jones
Granger/
O'Neal/
Croshere/Foster/Pollard/Harrison

IMO, that team can play defense and rebound well enough, but lacks a solid second option. Adding this scoring without sacrificing defense might be tough, I don't know.

And, while we are out lookng for a second option, I hope we bring in an off-guard who can actually penetrate. We've got enough people who post up for their points, we need a guy who isn't a PG that can get creative with the ball.... of course that is just preference at this point, a shooter or another low post player could also work, in the end.

Hicks
12-12-2005, 09:05 PM
First of all, if we go with what we have, it will be:

Tinsley/AJ
Saras/Jones
Jackson/Granger
Croshere/Foster
O'Neal/Harrison/Pollard

Secondly, you can argue that between Jackson and Sarunas that lineup still has plenty of offense.


Saras/Tinsley/AJ
Jackson/Jones
Granger/
O'Neal/
Croshere/Foster/Pollard/Harrison

IMO, that team can play defense and rebound well enough, but lacks a solid second option. Adding this scoring without sacrificing defense might be tough, I don't know.

And, while we are out lookng for a second option, I hope we bring in an off-guard who can actually penetrate. We've got enough people who post up for their points, we need a guy who isn't a PG that can get creative with the ball.... of course that is just preference at this point, a shooter or another low post player could also work, in the end.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2005, 09:08 PM
First of all, if we go with what we have, it will be:

Tinsley/AJ
Saras/Jones
Jackson/Granger
Croshere/Foster
O'Neal/Harrison/Pollard

Secondly, you can argue that between Jackson and Sarunas that lineup still has plenty of offense.

I would then probably say that starting lineup doesn't play defense well enough, and is too small overall.

Bball
12-12-2005, 09:20 PM
First of all, if we go with what we have, it will be:

Tinsley/AJ
Saras/Jones
Jackson/Granger
Croshere/Foster
O'Neal/Harrison/Pollard

Secondly, you can argue that between Jackson and Sarunas that lineup still has plenty of offense.

Hmmmm why not:

Tinsley/Saras
Jones/AJ
Jackson/Granger
Croshere/Foster
O'Neal/Harrison/Pollard

-Bball

Pacerized
12-12-2005, 09:30 PM
I really think it depends on who we get back in the trade. If we get a decent starting caliber player, then yes. If we trade for NENE, or a project who wouldn't help us this year, then no. As we are, I don't see us winning it all.

BlueNGold
12-12-2005, 09:31 PM
I think we will still contend. If we can make a decent trade, we are still right there with the best in the East.

We could use a shooter or someone like Dalembert (an intimidator). If we are able to pick him up, or someone like Pierce or TMac by adding other pieces, we are better without him. We have enough fire power at SF. I would love to see TMac or Pierce at SG with Jax off the bench backing up SG and SF.

Pacesetter
12-12-2005, 09:35 PM
You guys must be joking around or something .... in 49 states it's just basketball, but THIS is Indiana!

Hell yeah we're still contenders!

beast23
12-12-2005, 10:29 PM
What about Turkoglu?

Arcadian
12-12-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm more optimistic without Ron than with. In the last two seasons he hasn't made it past Christmas without hurting us with his crap. I'm ready to move on.

Odom would be a perfect third scoring option. He doesn't need to score to feel involved. He is a team player and does whatever is asked of him. I have no idea where someone could say he has a bad attitude. He has had some off court stuff from his Clipper days but all of that was off court.

Shade
12-12-2005, 10:53 PM
I'll answer this question once I see what we get for Artest.

317Kim
12-13-2005, 05:47 AM
Yup..Still contenders :D

NPFII
12-13-2005, 07:30 AM
Very well said.

Chemistry is very important but if you don't have a certain level of talent you will be exposed in the playoffs. The cream rises in the playoffs, the really good talented players rise to a level that most players can't get.

And that will be the time when Indiana will get to know the player called Sarunas Jasikevicius. I can't wait!

IMO Indiana is not only still a contender, but I think that after the dust clears - we'll be the best team in the league, just like Detroit is viewed now.

Bball
12-13-2005, 11:16 AM
No we are not still contenders. But we lost the ranking of contender before Artest ever became trade fodder.

This team clearly had, and has, problems and without solving them first we were in no way a legitimate threat to the upper tier teams. At best we could be a speedbump for them.

As of today, we might not even be a speedbump BUT it is a long season. Thankfully, this stuff is happening now rather than later. We can probably wave 'buh bye' to home court advantage throughout the playoffs and now we're going to be jockeying for position with the other midpackers.

But we do have Jermaine O Neal and a LOT is going to fall on his shoulders. A lot. Carlisle may have some work cut out for him as well. And so do management. They are going to have to remold and refocus this team back into a good, solid, formidable team. A team that nobody wants to face in the playoffs. Whether that is something they will be able to do is the question.

The immediate goal should no longer be a championship. That's just pie in the sky. The goal should be getting this team back to a place where that goal is not pie in the sky.

I'm hesitant to say the championship window slammed shut but it was coming down one way or the other. Walsh is fond of building from within and that has gotten us zero titles so I firmly believe it will be our ability to make some moves with existing talent that will make the difference. Will we do that? What will Ron bring in trade? What other players are leaving with him or soon after?

I don't think the list of problems ended with Artest. Think back to Reggie saying on TNT "Ron's not the bad egg....". What was that telling us? There's someone worse for team chemistry and focus than Ron Artest? That Ron's a freak but if someone else had more maturity or 'something', Ron could be dealt with differently and be made less of a distraction?

Ron has been the "Devil we know", but has there been another Devil in the background all this time complicating things for others and maybe Ron as well?

If so, that person must be excorcised as well. This season needs to be about getting the team back on track for a realistic shot at a championship. Even if it means an obvious setback up front. Even if that means our title shot becomes "next year". THAT is hard for me to say BUT I can live with it IF the moves are made THIS year to make it happen. Not some "wait and see mode", maybe a trade in the offseason, etc 'next year' scenario, but a retooling now for future dividends.

I don't want the team only to do enough to be a pretender this year with some glimmer of hope they'll address the missing pieces next summer or that the pieces might grow into the needed roles over the offseason or with a good draft, etc.. Use this as the opportunity, forget about pretending, and start thinking about contending again.

-Bball

Mourning
12-13-2005, 12:41 PM
Here's what I'd like: Ron and Fred Jones for a backup SG. I'm thinking about Jon Barry or someone of that caliber.

:puke:

While I have no doubt we won't very get much for Ron ... I DO have the idea that we could do better then Jon "no defence and getting Olllld" Barry, just sounds horrible and it's even worse if we throw in Freddie. I have no problem trading Freddie, but if we throw him together with Ron I would rather try to get Pietrus and/or throw something else in addition in then if they are not happy with that.

Regards,

Mourning :cool: