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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

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  • #1

    What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

    ON THE NBA

    Pacers tumble into early-season crisis

    By Israel Gutierrez

    igutierrez@herald.com

    And now for a little perspective.

    For those who think the Heat has been disappointing, that the team's problems are too substantial to repair and think things just won't get any better, here's a real team in turmoil that should make you feel a little better about things.

    The Indiana Pacers, the team that was a popular selection as the East's best in the preseason, are doing exactly what former Pacer Reggie Miller predicted, letting their personalities get in the way of team success.

    Among their other problems: their point guard situation is unstable. Before sitting out with a wrist injury, Ron Artest was playing inconsistently. Jonathan Bender might never play again. And Jermaine O'Neal, the leader whose leadership has been questioned, is already wondering aloud if the team needs to make changes if it is going to get matters turned around.

    `BAD HABITS'

    ''If we don't have a cause, then ultimately maybe management needs to think about retooling,'' O'Neal said. ``Whoever they feel like is not giving the best effort. Maybe it's putting some guys together who are going to give a better effort. That's from me on down. It's early, but we're growing bad habits. Maybe some people may think this is premature for me to be saying this, but you play to win.''

    It might be a bit premature, but not entirely so. Unlike the Heat, a team also whispering internally about potential changes, the Pacers have been together for some time. Other than Sarunas Jasikevicius, whose strong play at the point has made life difficult for the volatile Jamaal Tinsley and rookie Danny Granger, no one in the Pacers regular rotation is new to the team. And yet, the team can't manage to fall into a positive pattern, losing to teams like Seattle and Charlotte, yet beating teams like the Clippers and Cavaliers.

    The primary problem is the personalities, which is what Miller said before the season and the Pacers vehemently denied would become an issue. O'Neal might be too nice a guy, Ron Artest too crazy. Stephen Jackson's game doesn't match his bravado. And Tinsley is more rebel than floor general.

    The result is a lack of unity, shown when Pacers players constantly get in arguments on the court, sit on the end of the bench rather than join their teammates during timeouts and generally appear disinterested when not involved in the action.

    Larry Bird, Pacers president of basketball operations, has even acknowledged the issue.

    ''[The] chemistry has always been a concern of mine,'' Bird said. ``I don't think it's perfect. We have a lot of emotional guys on this team. When things get down, they get down on each other and start pointing fingers.''

    So Bird might soon be looking to make moves and fix his team before it's too late.

    ''If we see [a deal] we like, we'll pull the trigger,'' Bird said. ``It's frustrating how things are going. I'm like everybody else. I'm confused on what's going on with this team.

    ``We're not meshing right now. We have the talent to get the job done, but we've got guys on different pages.''

    If Bird is waiting to hear a good offer, he might never get one. No team in its right mind will touch the contracts of O'Neal (he'll make $23 million in 2009-10), Austin Croshere (owed $9.5 million next season), Jeff Foster, Jackson or Tinsley (the last three are signed through at least 2009 for better than $5 million a year).

    CHANGES UNLIKELY

    Unless a team is willing to take a chance on Artest, or desperately wants to get its hands on Granger, there really isn't a way the Pacers can make significant changes this season.

    In the meantime, that team that was supposed to be the favorite in the Eastern Conference has a lot of figuring out to do.

    ''Until we start playing like a championship team, I don't even want to mention us in the top five because we're not a top five team right now,'' O'Neal said.

    ``We're a very poor team right now.

    ``We've been playing with the off and on switch all year. It's almost mind-boggling.''

    Now that's a serious problem. Let's see if the Heat's issues are anywhere near as severe when Shaquille O'Neal is back to his dominant self. Not likely

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...l/13380690.htm
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

    If Bird is waiting to hear a good offer, he might never get one. No team in its right mind will touch the contracts of O'Neal (he'll make $23 million in 2009-10), Austin Croshere (owed $9.5 million next season), Jeff Foster, Jackson or Tinsley (the last three are signed through at least 2009 for better than $5 million a year).
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

      http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16632
      So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

      If you've done 6 impossible things today?
      Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

        Originally posted by able
        http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16632
        RE: how to cut&paste and call yourself "journalist"

        I didn't open that post because the subject line didn't draw my attention. I assumed 'wrongly' that it would be a long critique on Wells (and/or Kravitz) and their recent writing comparing it to some thoughts of posters here and using other media outlets as their 'sources'.

        My mistake.

        -Bball
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

          Originally posted by Bball
          ON THE NBA

          Pacers tumble into early-season crisis

          By Israel Gutierrez


          Before sitting out with a wrist injury, Ron Artest was playing inconsistently.

          This is crap and this guy has to know it. Ron was our man, no matter if you love him or hate him, he was playing spectacular.
          Life without water is tough, life without air is hard,life with one leg only is wobbly, Life without Reggie Miller, is impossible.

          Do Not Trade Austin

          Originally posted by Conrad Brunner
          Veteran Austin Croshere, the longest-tenured Pacers player on the roster, has proven reliable when called upon, invariably ready to step in regardless of the circumstance.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

            No, Ron did have some inconsistent moments... but not compared to Sjax.

            -Bball
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

              "Stephen Jackson's game doesn't match his bravado"

              PERFECT description to me.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

                Here's stating the obvious: Pacers need to launch Artest
                December 11, 2005

                So, you watch your man storm into a crowd last November, with your team 7-2 and looking poised for its best chance to win an NBA championship, in Reggie Miller's final season, no less. And you watch your man deck a fan, thereby effectively ending your team's season, despite its gutsy performance over the last five months of the year. All the while, you stand by your man -- you never cease to defend him, you quash any notion of trade talk, you make sure his teammates have nothing but positive things to say.

                When your man comes back? He decides he can't play for this coach, decides this team would be better off without him, decides this team has been holding him back.

                In case you missed some of the choice nuggets dished out Saturday by Pacers forward Ron Artest, let's refresh. He told the following to Mike Wells of the Indianapolis Star:

                "I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault. Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach (Rick Carlisle) as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach."

                He added, "I think I cause a lot of problems here. If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me."

                And also said, "Here, I don't think I'm going to have a chance to maximize my opportunity for my potential. When I first got here, all I wanted to do was play defense. I never really cared about offense, but what I see is players like Kobe (Bryant), Tracy (McGrady), (Gilbert) Arenas and Jermaine (O'Neal) getting the opportunity to maximize their potential on the court and to get paid. I'm out of my character a little bit here."

                The Pacers have been painted into a corner by Artest. It has been this way for a while. He always has been an odd case, which was why Chicago shipped him out back in 2002. In Indiana, his attitude and approach were disruptive in the 2004 playoffs. Of course, there was last year's brawl in Detroit. Indiana has had to remain faithful to Artest for two reasons -- one, because he is extremely talented on both ends of the court, and, two, because he is making a mere $6.5 million, not much for a guy with his ability. He's tough to trade.

                Miller, in his new job as an analyst for TNT, has hinted throughout the early season that it was Artest's immaturity that has held back the Pacers the past few years. "Until Indiana shows me they've solved their chemistry problems, you have to go with a team that doesn't argue, that gets the job done at the end of the day," Miller said on the air of his former team. "Any little thing can set Indiana off."

                Consider this that little thing.

                The Pacers have been pushed around as an organization by Artest's idiocy enough. It's got to be exhausting for this franchise, this constant babying of one of its best players. Time to let him bring his poison to some other team. No way Indiana will get fair value for Artest, of course, not after his trade-me rant and not with his sinking rep. The Pacers are dealing from a position of weakness.

                But, so what? As thick-skulled as Artest may be, the one smart thing he said was that the Pacers would be better off without him. They will be better off. They have talent, and they have Jermaine O'Neal. It'll mean more playing time for Fred Jones and Sarunas Jasikevicius. As Jeff Foster gets back into the flow, Austin Croshere can pick up Artest's slack. It'd be nice to still have James Jones on hand, and the impending retirement of Jonathan Bender hurts. But Artest's imminent departure means rookie Danny Granger, who has struggled, must get better in a hurry.

                For too long, the Pacers have tried to do the decent thing -- put on a brave face and tight lips when it comes to Artest. The Pacers' brain trust, Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh, run an otherwise classy and tight ship. They've watched Artest do too many things they wouldn't accept from other players. Now, their loyalty to Artest has been rewarded with yet another helping of stupidity. Get rid of him.


                http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...ic.php?t=43796
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: What Others Are Saying About The Pacers (media)

                  Artest mention... He's been talking about this with Hassell...


                  Wolves have become downright defensive
                  Led by stopper Trenton Hassell, who usually takes the other team's star perimeter scorer, Minnesota has become tough to score on.
                  Steve Aschburner, Star Tribune

                  Last update: December 11, 2005 at 10:04 PM





                  PHILADELPHIA - Timberwolves guard Trenton Hassell was surprised to learn Sunday that his friend Ron Artest, the Indiana Pacers' mercurial forward, had added to his unpredictable nature over the weekend by telling the Pacers to trade him.

                  But Hassell wasn't surprised by one of Artest's stated reasons -- his belief that playing elsewhere, under a different coach, his offensive skills might flourish.

                  "When we talk to each other, that's what we talk about. Being able to score," Hassell said after the Wolves' practice at Target Center. "He's 6-7, 250 on the block. Can shoot. Can handle the ball. Got great moves. ... He just wants to be an all-around player. I want to be that way sometimes. He's just vocal in what he wants, and that's it."

                  Hassell has walked in those shoes, albeit far less controversially. In three seasons at Austin Peay, he averaged 19.8 points and sank 122 three-pointers. But Hassell moved into Artest's role in Chicago in February 2002 after the defensive stopper was traded to Indiana, and his role with Minnesota, likewise, has been to pester the other team's most dangerous perimeter player.

                  That is a star chamber in the NBA, with Hassell stuck in the middle of it at the moment. On Saturday, he logged 42 minutes, many of them shadowing Lakers guard Kobe Bryant.

                  On Tuesday at Target Center, he will draw the short straw again on Sacramento's Peja Stojakovic, a marksman who shot 4-of-13 when they met last week at ARCO Arena.

                  And tonight, at the Wachovia Center, Hassell will be one of several Wolves chasing around Allen Iverson, the NBA's leading scorer (34.4 ppg) and one of its quickest and most tireless players.

                  "It's real challenging," he said. "You go from a guy like Kobe to AI, who's shorter but faster. Great in transition. Knows how to get to the foul line, knows how to get his shot up. So it's a different speed, a way different speed."

                  Not to pile on, but after Sacramento comes San Antonio on Thursday, then a weekend trip to Dallas.

                  "Wooo, what a stretch," Hassell said. "You've got Manu [Ginobili], [Tony] Parker, then you go to [Dirk] Nowitzki, [Marquis] Daniels, [Jason] Terry. It's just a hard stretch of games. That's where team defense applies."

                  That's where Hassell has backup. The Wolves have been drum-tight defensively lately, giving up only 310 points over their past four games (77.5 ppg) -- the stingiest such streak in franchise history. Their previous four-game low was 314 points allowed in February 1999.

                  Offense, with players such as Wally Szczerbiak and Marko Jaric hitting more shots, got a lot of attention early in the current five-game winning streak. So did forward Eddie Griffin's shot-blocking. But the Wolves have done well lately with the fundamental stuff, too. They rank second in the league in points given up (88.8 ppg) and fifth in opponents' shooting percentage (42.5). They even are rebounding better, with an edge of 8.3 over the past four games -- due, in part, to making opponents miss in the first place.

                  "We're doing well defensively, especially the fourth quarter," said Hassell, who figures to get help on Iverson from Jaric and Anthony Carter. "We're forcing teams to make hard twos. We're helping well. We're staying to the schemes, and I think we're doing a lot better than we did a majority of last year."

                  Said coach Dwane Casey, who made defense a top priority on the first day of camp: "We want to make sure we're solid. I think it carries over to the offensive end. If you're feeling good on defense, it helps you get into a rhythm. Some nights your shot's just not going to fall. But you can go down to the other end and guard somebody, and have pride in your defense."

                  http://www.startribune.com/stories/511/5776647.html
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment

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