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View Full Version : This trade makes sense for both teams: Ind & Sac



BigMac
12-10-2005, 10:58 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bender_Jonathan_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 10.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Artest_Ron_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Pollard_Scott_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 13.8 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Miller_Brad_sac.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
13.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.0 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Stojakovic_Peja_sac.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
17.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.4 apg in 37.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +3.6 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and +5.2 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Sacramento Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Miller_Brad_sac.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
13.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.0 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Stojakovic_Peja_sac.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
17.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.4 apg in 37.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bender_Jonathan_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 10.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Artest_Ron_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Pollard_Scott_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Scot Pollard
6-11 C from Kansas
3.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.0 apg in 13.8 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -5.2 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Indiana and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Bird loves Stojakovic and likes Miller.

Sac gets home town favorite Pollard to finish his career, an All-Star in Artest, the contract of Bender that will help out the Luxury Tax should Bender retire (insurance pays the salary and not having that salary would help pay the tax Sac may be paying), and throw in a first to sweeten the deal. We'll get Ezram next year (like having a first round pick) and Bird can use his two seconds to get future talent in Europe/Asia and let them get better overseas until we need them on the roster.

I figure Miller would like to come back, I don't know about Pedja wanting to resign after this year (I think his contract has just this year on it and maybe next but nothing further), Bird gets another shooter, we get a starting center and lets JO go to his natural 4 position and we unload Bender's salary, unfortunately lose an expiring contract of Pollard's, and get rid of (I can't believe I'd ever be saying this) the headache that is Ron Artest. Besides, we would ship Artest to an even slower town than Indy so he's not going to NY to help Isiah and get exactly what he wants. Never give a spoiled brat what he wants. It's just principle.

Kstat
12-10-2005, 10:59 PM
....it makes sense for Sacramento to trade both Peja AND Brad Miller for Ron? :laugh: Come on now.

Shade
12-10-2005, 11:00 PM
I would do that in a heartbeat of a heartbeat.

Frank Slade
12-10-2005, 11:00 PM
I can see we are going to need to sticky one trade thread for Ron...:laugh:

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:01 PM
I can see we are going to need to sticky one trade thread for Ron...:laugh:

Excellent idea.

indytoad
12-10-2005, 11:01 PM
I would do that in a heartbeat of a heartbeat.

I have doubts we'd be able to get either Peja or Brad for Ron, let alone both.

IndyToad
Needs to be groomed up

Ragnar
12-10-2005, 11:03 PM
How about Rick Carlisle for Byron Scott?

Young
12-10-2005, 11:04 PM
I have doubts we'd be able to get either Peja or Brad for Ron, let alone both.

IndyToad
Needs to be groomed up

With the way Peja is playing this season I am sure that we could swap the 2 but I agree there is no way we get both of those guys for Ron.

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:05 PM
....it makes sense for Sacramento to trade both Peja AND Brad Miller for Ron? :laugh: Come on now.

Sac is going nowhere. By doing this, they will lose some salary, rebuild through the draft, and have an all-star doing this. Peja is out of Sac as soon as his contract is up-and they will get nothing for him and like it. They get a first from Indiana this year, get a (most likely) high lottery pick in next year's draft (2 #'s to add to the current roster) and open up some f/a flexibility losing Pollard's contract, Bender's contract, and only adding $7 million in salary next season. For us, it's addition by addition, for Sac it's addition by subtraction.

But I understand that a Detroit fan would not agree with this. This would make us dangerous-hopefully. But, of course, the trade scenarios are only speculation and very, very doubtful that they would ever happen.

Anthem
12-10-2005, 11:05 PM
That's a touch unrealistic.

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:08 PM
With the way Peja is playing this season I am sure that we could swap the 2 but I agree there is no way we get both of those guys for Ron.

Folks, we're not looking at the big picture from the other side. The Maloof's are saving a lot of money this way. And since there is no way they will win a championship in the next few years (or even be a contender), they have to rebuild and through the draft and f.a. is the only way to do that. Brad Miller isn't going to win them a championship. Peja is out of there soon. This way they get an all-star and cap relief for a guy that is not playing very well this season (Peja) and a guy who is a good support guy but not a guy that will lead you to the promised land (Miller).

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:09 PM
That's a touch unrealistic.

Any trade speculation with the Pacers is unrealistic. They don't trade much. And trading an all-star is is always something that does not happen often and usually bites the team that trades him in the a$$.

Which is what makes this scenario doubtful, scary, and promising all at the same time.

cracktower
12-10-2005, 11:10 PM
Peja for Artest is all I ask. Lets not get too greedy.

Roaming Gnome
12-10-2005, 11:12 PM
This trade is a joke.

Hell, I would be suprised if we can get Peja the softy for Ron and one of OUR first rounders.

Ron just killed any trade value we mustered up this year by demanding a trade!!!

Kstat
12-10-2005, 11:13 PM
The Maloofs care more about winning than money. I'm sure they'd ship Peja for Ron, but Brad Miller too? That's just ridiculous. WHy don't you shoot for Mike Bibby too while you're at it?

They aren't going to get any closer to a winning team if the deal Brad Miller.

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:15 PM
Peja for Artest is all I ask. Lets not get too greedy.

Not trying to be greedy but Sac needs to look for the future, we need to look for the now.

If I had started a thread about four years ago about the Pacers sending Norm Richardson, Jalen Rose, and Travis Best to Chicago for B.Miller, R. Mercer, R. Artest, and Kevin Ollie what would you say? "No Way will the Bulls go for it", right? Well, they recovered as recently as last year and, even though they screwed up this off season, were a team that has/had considerable talent and won some big games even after that trade.

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:17 PM
...Ron just killed any trade value we mustered up this year by demanding a trade!!!

Not true. It just brings out more possible suitors. The Pacers aren't having a fire sale here. I would seriously be surprised if Bird settled only for Peja.

And he didn't demand a trade, just said that he thought that the Pacers would be better off without him and that he didn't like the head coach's offense. Didn't Shaq say that when Phil first got to L.A. and he survived to win 3 NBA Championships (I think it was 3?).

Roaming Gnome
12-10-2005, 11:25 PM
Not true. It just brings out more possible suitors. The Pacers aren't having a fire sale here. I would seriously be surprised if Bird settled only for Peja.

And he didn't demand a trade, just said that he thought that the Pacers would be better off without him and that he didn't like the head coach's offense. Didn't Shaq say that when Phil first got to L.A. and he survived to win 3 NBA Championships (I think it was 3?).


Sounds like a trade demand to me, what are our alternatives if LB and DW get nothing but crap deals? We have to hold on to him or let him go for nothing. Look at Rasheed Wallace, Portland got a whole lot out of that didn't they?

Yes, Ron killed his trade value and this team for this year!

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:31 PM
The Maloofs care more about winning than money. ...

You sure about that?

You must know them well. Tell them I said hello next time you hang out with them and attend one of their board meetings. Which of course, ends with a night on the town with the Maloofs! Followed b one of those special pillow fights K-Stat and the Maloofs are so well know for. :cheers: :kings: :buddies::pillow:

FYI-no NBA owner is in it just for the fun of it and do not consider the financial end of it-see Mark Cuban letting a close friend, long time member of the Mavs and reigning NBA MVP Steve Nash go because he wanted too much money. And there were rumors (in fairness the Maloof's denied it publicly) that they were considering the sale of the Kings-or even trying to move the team to Vegas because they were losing too much money in Sac town. There's usually at least a little truth in a rumor.

Kstat
12-10-2005, 11:33 PM
Mark Cuban was on the hook for almost $100 MILLION with Finley.

You're dreaming if you think brad miller is a similiar situation.

If the Maloofs really cared about the bottom line that much, they wouldnt have Bibby and Brad Miller making HUGE cash right now.

It's a pipe dream, lol. Brad Miller isn't going anywhere.

Pacesetter
12-10-2005, 11:36 PM
If we could send Artest out west and bring back #52, I'd be for it. I do know Scot wouldn't hesitate going back to California. I think it was pretty obvious he didn't really want to be in Indiana, and who knows, he may still feel that way. As for Peja and Brad for Ronnie and Scot, JB might not work but we might be able to give up a second rounder in the deal or perhaps even a 1st.

BigMac
12-10-2005, 11:43 PM
Mark Cuban was on the hook for almost $100 MILLION with Finley.

You're dreaming if you think brad miller is a similiar situation.

If the Maloofs really cared about the bottom line that much, they wouldnt have Bibby and Brad Miller making HUGE cash right now.

It's a pipe dream, lol. Brad Miller isn't going anywhere.

Cuban IS on the hook with Finley still. And instead of having a player play for him that could be productive, he cut him to save on the Luxury Tax. And he lost an MVP caliber player (well, maybe not that caliber when he was with Dallas).

Also, the Mallofs gave Miller and Bibby big contracts when they were building a contender and needed to keep the team together. Now they don't have a contender. And are going nowhere.

But thank you for helping me make my point-via the round and about Kstat way!

:)

Harmonica
12-10-2005, 11:47 PM
Brad Miller is not coming back....

Everyone, listen to this guy.

denyfizle
12-10-2005, 11:48 PM
what the heck, we are supposed to be trading Jackson and Tinsley. And I dont see neither of them so this does not make sense to me.

denyfizle
12-10-2005, 11:59 PM
i take it back... i just read the Indy Star Artest article. Ron Artest tsk tsk. I am not a big Rick Carlisle fan either but Ron Artest. man!!! grow up and show some damn loyalty. if that article is true it's only 2 things. either Ron is really that stupid and naive. or he's just a freakin selfish nutcase after all. this is bull****. trade the ****er then. Im among the biggest Ron Artest supporters anywhere. ****, TRADE him now. just make sure it's a good deal or bury or send him to Canada to rot. Indiana fans don't deserve this crap.

Naptown Seth
12-11-2005, 12:24 AM
Mark Cuban was on the hook for almost $100 MILLION with Finley.

You're dreaming if you think brad miller is a similiar situation.

If the Maloofs really cared about the bottom line that much, they wouldnt have Bibby and Brad Miller making HUGE cash right now.

It's a pipe dream, lol. Brad Miller isn't going anywhere.
All fans have pipedreams for their teams. Sheed and Darko for KG ring a bell? :laugh:


But the only way we get Brad Miller in any Peja/Artest deal would be if we took back a lot of nasty contracts, replaced them with Pollard, Bender, and Crosheres friendly contracts, and maybe threw in a 1st rounder. And them Im not even sure if thats the direction the Kings would be going in. Wouldn't trading for Artest be a change to help them win now? And then ofcourse I don't see Walsh taking on the bad contracts needed to get Miller. So really I can't see it ever happening and I'm usely very open minded about these deals.

Eindar
12-11-2005, 03:40 AM
I think the more likely trade scenario would be us sending Pollard, Tinsley, Artest, and maybe Harrison or Foster for B. Miller and Peja. Obviously, fodder might be added to make salaries match, including Fred Jones.

Peja for Artest makes sense for the Kings. You include B. Miller, and we have to send back another servicable or promising big man, because you don't trade big for small, or big for nothing (see Miller-Pollard deal #1). Even including that, you have to sweeten the pot further, and one thing that would help the Kings down the road is getting Tinsley as Bibby's heir for when he gets long in the tooth, or even as a replacement if they go into full rebuilding mode and trade him for picks.

I really think we could get Peja and Brad back, but it would take Artest, Tinsley, Pollard, Harrison, and F. Jones, I think. And even then, we might have to take one of their bad contracts back.