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Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

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  • #1

    Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

    First & formost I want to give the Pacers credit for one thing before we go any further. They have just come home off of a very long road trip & were playing their 3rd game in 5 days with a long late night flight in be-tween.

    Not making an excuse for them but it certainly is a factor into this game.

    Also, & since I've taken over the resident paranoid delusional conspirocy nutt's job, I want to ask a wild off topic no proof speculation laden question.

    Is it possible that Ron Artest is now taking his anti-depression medications? The reason I ask this is because Ron just doesn't look the same to me. No I'm not talking about his game I don't have any real issues with that, other than his new found desire to not rebound. This is going to sound crazy but Ron's eyes just don't look the same to me. They are no longer wide open & he almost sometimes looks like TMac. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I'm just curious if anybody else sees it?

    Moving on.

    Let's talk about the fans for a min.

    This is/was a two way street & neither driver took the right road. The fans were dead all night, no energy, barely supportive & at times down right hostile towards the home team. After the game was one of the most negative times I've ever heard at the fieldhouse but I'll come back to that.

    However the team gave them very few moments to actually believe that they were going to make a push to try & win.

    IMO, it was a no win scenario for both sides.

    Here's the scoop for those that were not there. The fans were down right brutal on Stephan Jackson. Every little mistake he made after mid-way through the first quarter they let him have. Sometimes it was just the section behind the bench but at times it was the entire fieldhouse. I don't remember a home town player ever recieve that kind of reception before. Maybe Jalen Rose did on a couple of occasions but even then I'm not sure it was the way Jax got it.

    The fans also let the team have it on a couple of occasions during the second & third quarters.

    You know how you guys have been complaining about the atmosphere here on the digest, you know being so negative & all, well let me say that you certainly would not have liked the atmosphere after the game. I had to use the restroom after the game & the talk was bitter at best & downright racist at worst.

    I think what I may have been seeing at the fieldhouse was something I tried to warn you guys about last year. I actually think I was hearing repercussions of last years brawl in Detroit.

    "I just can't support these stupid no hustling thuggs", "That white guy from Europe was the only person who even gave a d@mn", "Stephen Jackson is an @sshole".

    These are just some of the quotes to come from the mens room & this is in the God forsaken club level. I'd hate to hear what was said in the upper & lower decks.

    Of course my family was treated to a group of fools that came in at half-time who got their tickets for free & proceded to yell like idiots throughout the game. One of them, I don't know which one, said something towards the end of the game about how Saras was the only one who was hustling. Diamond Dave probably remembers what he said & he can fill us in because right now I don't remember, but needless to say we both knew what he meant.

    To be frank it was disturbing. I certainly understand complaining about the team & I absolutely agree about letting it be known the fans did not appreciate what they percieved to be a lack of effort.

    However to not aknowledge that Danny Granger was out there busting his @ss during the 4th quarter or that J.O. was trying as best he could to me said you either didn't watch the game, don't understand the game or you have another agenda altogether.

    Let me make this clear I have no problem with booing the home team, I have no problem with complaining about anything involving the team (God knows I lead the pack) however I do have a problem with people complaining based on a pre concieved notion of race.

    I'm not trying to get all preach with you guys & I apologize in advance for going off on this tangent but I just felt like saying this.

    Moving on.

    For those of you that keep wanting to chant over & over again about how this is early in the season & that you wanna end the season strong & that the games now don't count for much I give you our good friend Adrian Griffin from the Dallas Mavericks.

    "Any win is a big win in this league, because you never know when they’re going to matter. They (Pacers) were able to cut the lead down to four or five in the fourth quarter, but we held them off. This may be a situation where we look back at the end of the season and say, these one or two wins were big for us."

    I will also give you the converse logic to this. This may be a situation where we look back at the end of the season and say, these one or two losses were big for us.

    I'm assuming that we still would like to get home court throughout the playoffs, well every loss takes us one game further away from that goal.

    If your going to ask me what the one overall problem is with this team I will give you an honest answer.

    I don't know.

    Chemistry, makeup, coaching, shooting, defense, effort, rebounding & attitude.

    Pick your poison, it could be some of them it could be all of them or it could be none of them.

    Does anybody want to give the team a break because of injurys? I mean right now our starting p.g & our starting p.f. are out with injurys & another of our big men is coming off of surgery?

    I'm pretty sure the sympathy train for injurys has left the station. At least it has for me.

    So if were looking for some reason & if you demand I give you one I will give you this.

    If you are having this many issues & let's be honest we all hear that we are not the most cohesive team to ever exist behind the scenes, you can blame leadership.

    You could blame Jermaine O'Neal & he should shoulder some of the blame. Franchise player comes with a great deal of money but also a lot of responsibilties. However he can only do so much.

    You could blame Rick Carlisle & he certainly should share in the blame. His rotations have been bizaare to say the least this season, let's start the 6'8 Danny Granger on the 7' Dirk Nowitski not to mention seasoned all-pro vs. Rookie in his first start. However he can't make these guys co-operate with each other on the floor.

    So if your looking for a reason you have to look at the top. The brain trust that is Bird/Walsh put this team together. They made choices to keep certain players & send other players away. They are the ones who hired this coach (that's not a bad thing btw) they are the ones who gave J.O. that max deal. So if you wanna give them the credit for everything that is ever right with this club then right now if things are wrong you have to look to them as well.

    I know things have changed over the years & I know the closer Donnie gets to walking away from here the more he wants to win it all, but I will say this. This just doesn't seem to be a Donnie Walsh team. I'm not saying that it's not, I'm just saying these guys go against a lot of the things I've known him to choose over the years. I just wonder how much of this is on him? In some ways all of it because he is Birds boss, but I get the feeling it is a mutual agreement kind of thing on players.

    On a side note I saw something last night that I've never seen before in all 20 years of attending these games.

    I saw Donnie Walsh applauding the team as they went to the bench trying to encourage the team. This was while the rest of the fieldhouse was booing the team.

    I've never ever seen him do that before. Usually he sits there like a stone & only moves to get up & go to the back & smoke (I assume). But he was clapping the team.

    I don't know why but I found that odd. Remember I've been there with him during 20 win seasons when the boo birds came out quite often & I never once saw him do that.

    I don't know if it means anything or if it's just a random observation but I thought it was certainly out of character for him.

    Let's look at the players for a min. shall we.

    For those of you guys that like to keep in house dirt in house I wonder how well you are going to like Saras? He seems to keep talking about how the team does not do things very well. He seems to really like to open up to the folks back home with how we have some problems here. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I know some of you can't stand when people say anything like this in the press.

    I'm sorry I digressed there for a moment.

    I wasn't that impressed with his game that much last night. I really kind of thought that he had a hard time with Devin Harris on defense & Darrel Armstrong bothered him on the offensive end. Not a bad game & certainly he has outplayed my expectations so far, but overall I wasn't happy with his game.

    About Harrison. Basically what Rick is going to have to do is determine if David is harming the team with his fouls at a given time. Because as it is he is fouling out of the game with 2 fouls. Now don't get me wrong if he really messing the flow or throwing us in the penatly at a bad time then yank him to the bench. But if not then he has got to let him play through it.

    He did not do a good job on Dampier in the 3 min (or whatever it was) he was in the game. That is dissapointing. However I do not want to see another Austin Croshere/Isiah Thomas issue happen. You know where if Austin didn't hit his first couple of shots Zeke would yank him to the bench thus causing Austin to force it or be tentative with it depending on the game. Well I am very much afraid of this with David. He will learn that quick fouls will earn a quick yank & thus I'm afraid he will stop playing hard on defense.

    We still need a big man coach for David.

    J.O. was good, no complaints about him. When we brought him back in the 4th it killed our run but that was not his fault.

    Ron was good, but he has got to get back to getting more boards.

    Here is where I have a disonnect with some of you. I thought Jeff Foster never looked better. He was using his body on defense & he was using strength for boards hell he even blocked two shots which had to tie him for as many blocks as he had all last season. (just kidding, about the blocking part)

    He is limping & I do NOT want him to hurt himself further, so if he needs to go back to the I.L. then so be it. Don't rush him.

    I can't beleive we didn't try Pollard on Dampier.

    About Granger. Even though I hate small ball & I really did not like him starting vs. Dirk, I was really impressed during the 4th quarter. Actually at one point in time during the fourth I said it kind of felt like the breakout that we have been waiting for on him. Let's just hope he continues it.

    BTW, not that this means anything. But I did NOT see Jon Bender at the game last night. Normally he is on the bench somewhere, I didn't see him. Make of that what you will.

    Is anybody even still reading this??? If you are then here are some bonus fruit for you.

    In closing I don't know that you can take much away from this game. But then again it seems like I've already said that twice before this season. Let's just hope it was a case of jet lag & that we can upright the ship on Thursday.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

    mmmmmmmmmm... Fruit.













    Good post. How did Sarunas' "Injury" look? And how did he look afterwards? I saw a replay of it happening but thats it... just the highlights.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

      "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

      It kind if fits if you think about it. As I watched the game I kept trying to see a sign of a team with high goals and the drive to achieve them. We've been told "One Goal!" and I was looking for some kind of sign or signal that it was more than talk.

      Somebody tell me what you see with the 2005-2006 version Pacers that makes you believe they are championship material?

      For me, tonight the bar dropped. There's always hope but let's not confuse hope with the cold, cruel reality that we're just not seeing a good contending basketball team right now. The bar now is just seeing if the team can get to a point where they are a good team again. Maybe then we can reassess our position, our strengths and weaknesses, and make some kind of a move.

      Don't be surprised if that move involves a personnel change. We might just need a move to get back to being a good team again.

      I don't think our championship dreams can be salvaged without it. These players aren't showing me they have what it takes, as a team to get it done. It may not be their fault. Or more likely, it may not be all their fault.

      And I do wonder if Carlisle is getting tuned out and/or losing effectiveness and control. Who is really running the asylum?

      And Peck makes a good point, ultimately the responsibility for this stops with management.

      But, we're 10-7. It's early. What am I worried about? The sky's not falling. They'll get their swagger back and go 65-0 the rest of the way.

      Maybe I am just being too harsh...?

      -Bball
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

        Malaise, schlamaise....they get paid to play a game to the best of their ability and tonight was a far cry from that. Dallas played last night and looked fresher than us and outhustled us all night.

        As for what's wrong, I'm with you, I can not pinpoint a problem because there are likely several.

        Ron- looks too nice, doesn't look like his old b-ball self, seems he's toned it down too much. Plus his FT shoothing is awful. Still the best player on this team though!

        O'neal- injured again and never goes for an offensive rebound, but noone on the team other than Granger does either. Can't get to the FT line even though he gets hammered regularly. Other than these two complaints, he's been solid this year.

        Jackson- I just can't stand to watch him play. Dumb shots, missed layups, attitude.... What happened to the great role player from San Antonio. I think he believes he's much better than he is.

        Tinsley- attitude and injured AGAIN!!

        Foster- injured....still not in shape, but played solid defense tonight!

        Croshere- been great this year, we missed him tonight.

        Pollard- been decent this year, should've played tonight

        Saras- No complaints, and no complaints about his comments yet. Improving with every game.

        AJ- just don't ever want to see him play...our offense goes to hell when he's in.

        Granger/Harrison/Jones- too inconsistent

        Coaching- Just don't understand why we stand around and watch the shot miss and never go for the offensive board?? Why do we run so many isolations when we don't have the type of team that can consistently do this?

        Ownership- This team needs a kick in the *** which very well may require a trade. My vote AJ and Jackson for some role players. Defenders and a guard who can hit the wide open jumper like a Steve Kerr or Paxson. A cliff levingston type who beats the crap out of the other team in the post and sets monster screens.

        Well, thank goodness for TIVO so I can breeze through games in about 25-30 minutes

        Water

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

          I have a lot to say, but I just bought a new entertainment center and I have to set the thing up. That will take ME two days.

          My main thought is shame on most of you guys! You are up and down like a yo-yo!

          Missing two starters, starting two rookies, just back from a long road trip, and still they make a run on a team that beat Detroit 119-82, and San Antonio 103-84.

          Just the other day Dallas played San Antonio again and lost 92-90, and you have to know the World Champion Spurs were trying to pay them back. It wasn't a crappy team that beat MY Pacers. Dallas is a very good team.

          It seems most are down on them. Not me. I'm sure they will get it together, but even if they don't I'm with them thick or thin, rain or shine.

          And shame on the crowd too! Instead of being the 6th man it sounds like the crowd is a life sucker. Teams are notorious for being down the first home game after a long road trip. Whats wrong with the crowd giving the team a lift? All that against them and still they made a run?

          And for what it's worth . . . GO JAX!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

            Originally posted by Will Galen
            I have a lot to say, but I just bought a new entertainment center and I have to set the thing up. That will take ME two days.

            My main thought is shame on most of you guys! You are up and down like a yo-yo!

            Missing two starters, starting two rookies, just back from a long road trip, and still they make a run on a team that beat Detroit 119-82, and San Antonio 103-84.

            Just the other day Dallas played San Antonio again and lost 92-90, and you have to know the World Champion Spurs were trying to pay them back. It wasn't a crappy team that beat MY Pacers. Dallas is a very good team.

            It seems most are down on them. Not me. I'm sure they will get it together, but even if they don't I'm with them thick or thin, rain or shine.

            And shame on the crowd too! Instead of being the 6th man it sounds like the crowd is a life sucker. Teams are notorious for being down the first home game after a long road trip. Whats wrong with the crowd giving the team a lift? All that against them and still they made a run?

            And for what it's worth . . . GO JAX!

            Will,
            I just have to say this because I didn't put it in print before- It is not that they lost. I can live with that. It is how they played the game. They played the game in a way that gave them little to no chance to win.

            It's cliched BUT... you have to play "the right way". These players (collectively) did not do that. Not as a team anyway. There was some decent to good individual play along the way, but in a team game that still doesn't cut it.

            I could accept the loss if the team, as a team, gave it their all and just came up short. But for an alleged championship contender to continue to play games like this, miss FT's, yada yada yada... something is wrong.

            -Bball
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

              Originally posted by Will Galen
              I have a lot to say, but I just bought a new entertainment center and I have to set the thing up. That will take ME two days.

              My main thought is shame on most of you guys! You are up and down like a yo-yo!

              Missing two starters, starting two rookies, just back from a long road trip, and still they make a run on a team that beat Detroit 119-82, and San Antonio 103-84.

              Just the other day Dallas played San Antonio again and lost 92-90, and you have to know the World Champion Spurs were trying to pay them back. It wasn't a crappy team that beat MY Pacers. Dallas is a very good team.

              It seems most are down on them. Not me. I'm sure they will get it together, but even if they don't I'm with them thick or thin, rain or shine.

              And shame on the crowd too! Instead of being the 6th man it sounds like the crowd is a life sucker. Teams are notorious for being down the first home game after a long road trip. Whats wrong with the crowd giving the team a lift? All that against them and still they made a run?

              And for what it's worth . . . GO JAX!

              And Dallas was without 3 of their players including starting PG.
              Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                It did **** me off when they booed Ron after missed free throws. Did he try to miss them, how does booing help him make free throws.

                If fans want to boo the team due to poor effort or even an individual player for poor effort, I can live with that. If the fans boo a player for bad decisions or not follwing the game plan, I can deal with that. But to boo a player for missing a shot, I just don't like it at all

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                  Last year the fans went out of their way to support the players and the
                  fans saw a team that put out the effort and was cohesive. This year the
                  team is out of sync and not putting forth the effort on defense. Pacer
                  crowds have always responded to effort and selfless play and passion.
                  As the team is now it has none of these things.


                  So to hear booing last night on TV was not surprising. Granger was really the
                  only player who was playing with passion. I know they were tired and so
                  you can excuse some of the lethargic effort but this type of showing is
                  rearing its head much to often this early in the season.



                  Stephen Jackson has really been playing poorly lately and he cannot
                  drive into the lane without losing the ball. It was very frustrating watching
                  him play last night. Can we trade him for Murray from Seattle.


                  owl
                  {o,o}
                  |)__)
                  -"-"-

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    the only thing i wanna know is...

                    why did Rick take Freddy out and put in Jax when we closed it to 6 pts last night? Freddy was part of the group that got us back in the game and Jax hadn't done much of anything all night except complain to the refs and turn the ball over while dribbling.

                    that brings me to another point... Croshere and Jax should never dribble the ball in an attempt to beat their man off the bounce again. More often then not it ends in a turnover.

                    the lack of effort, outside of that run in the 4th, bothered me. when the team acts like it doesn't care, then i turn the channel. i just can't stand that!

                    anyway, those 'racist' remarks you talked about... is this a regular occurrence at the Fieldhouse now? since i live out of town now, i don't get to see the Pacers until they come to DC or if I drive up to Philly to see them. it really wouldn't surprise me if those comments are being made on the regular... although i find it sickening.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                      Sounds like Peck was sitting near a group of Bad Joe Fans. It's his duty as Good Joe Fan to let an usher know so they can be removed.
                      PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck
                        It did **** me off when they booed Ron after missed free throws. Did he try to miss them, how does booing help him make free throws.

                        If fans want to boo the team due to poor effort or even an individual player for poor effort, I can live with that. If the fans boo a player for bad decisions or not follwing the game plan, I can deal with that. But to boo a player for missing a shot, I just don't like it at all
                        I hear ya, UB, but I disagree.

                        I think the crowd sees what I see. It is a lack of focus by Artest that causes him to miss his free throws. And this is a nice metaphor for the whole team right now: lack of focus.

                        Don't know what's up with Ronnie. I'm kinda intrigued by Peck's theory.
                        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                          The main problem of this team, IMO is that they themselves dont BELIEVE.

                          That spells into no-passion-like games, no hustle, selfishness, etc. It then rubs off to the fans who dont believe, and show it by booing.

                          I just have to say that it's partially a matter of statistical fluctuation and down-right luck. At least 2 losses (Milwaukee & Atlanta) could have gone the other way in a heartbeat. At 75-71 in this game it could've tured around with Griffin missing, for example. Some shots go down, some lose balls bounce your way, and all of a sudden it's a whole new ballgame.

                          The point being - if you BELIEVE you can do it - you enhance your chances of doing it. It's that simple, and yet illusive at the same time. It's the duty of Management, Coaching & Leadership to make the team believe. It takes a certain personality to believe even when you're down. On this team I can only pinpoint Saras to be that kind of personality. Maybe JO, Ron and Croshere also. Most personalities (& the rest of the players) get even more down when the going gets tough. Jax, Tins, DH, Freddie - are all in a state of unconfidence. This HAS to change for them to play not only sub-par, but excel and get even better than they were.
                          Changing a personality is impossible, but giving confidence is the job of Management, Coaching & Leadership (MCL).

                          To end on a positive note - once the confidence is there, and they do start believing - this team will be SCARY!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                            Originally posted by Peck

                            Is it possible that Ron Artest is now taking his anti-depression medications? The reason I ask this is because Ron just doesn't look the same to me. No I'm not talking about his game I don't have any real issues with that, other than his new found desire to not rebound. This is going to sound crazy but Ron's eyes just don't look the same to me. They are no longer wide open & he almost sometimes looks like TMac. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I'm just curious if anybody else sees it?
                            I think Ron has trouble playing at PF and at 260, or both. I think we need to keep Ron and JO at their natural positions where they made the all star teams. Yes they are both good enough to play out of position but it takes it's toil. (Remember Rick Smits was better when he lost the weight the team had him put on.)

                            I also think part of our trouble is Carlisle is experimenting with the wave of small ball teams are playing. I think that's why he's still starting JO at center. He needs to go back to the lineup that won 61 games (when everyone is healthy.)

                            Of course we are short Reggie and I think JAX is trying to hard to replace him. Jax should just shoot and drive when it's there, and when it's not do like Reggie did and defer to JO. With him at the shooting guard spot this team should be better than the one that won 61 games. I think Granger can play Al's roll.

                            The bottom line, I think this team hasn't mashed because of the lack of centers to start the season. Plus because Carlisle doesn't have Jeff he's still playing around with the lineup.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Odd thoughts about the Malaise Game with Dallas....

                              I've been reading a lot of comments and one comparison comes to mind.

                              KStat's attitude towards his Pistons at the beginning of each of the last two seasons. KStat was ready to go into his garage and shoot himself because his Pistons just weren't getting it done.

                              And we all know what happened with the Pistons the last couple of years.

                              But reality must set in... we ain't he Pistons.

                              Yet.

                              Comment

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