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mmxx
03-27-2004, 01:38 AM
came across this from nba forum at basketballboards.net... probably a month old but it's very interesting to know:


29 coaches polled (assistants and head)

3 starters whose defense you like to exploit

Glenn Robinson.............6
Dirk............................5
Shaq..........................5

3 players not known for their defense but who are good defenders

AK-47...................5
James Posey...........3
Kurth Thomas.........3

Defender who forces your team to make the most adjustments

Shaq......................6
Ben Wallace.............5
KG..........................3

Best Team Defense

Spurs....................7
Rockets.................5
Pistons, Pacers.......3

Worst Team Defense

Mavs....................11
Magic....................5
Trail Blazers............3

Best Transition Defense

Rockets......................9
Spurs.........................6
Pacers........................4

Worst Transition Defense

Mavs.........................8
Clippers......................4
Magic........................3
"When the Lakers have all their players, they are one of the worst"

Best Zone Defense

Twolves...................17
No one.....................3

Worst Zone Defense

Mavericks......................7
Magic...........................4
Everyone.......................3
"The Mavs' was a lot of better last year. They're trying to do the same things, but with worse defenders"

Best Low Post Defender
Ben Wallace.......................7
Tim Duncan.......................6
PJ Brown..........................3

Best On Ball Defender

Ron Artest...........................16
Bruce Bowen.........................5
Gary Payton..........................2

Best Off the ball defender

Ben Wallace.........................7
Allen Iverson........................5
Doug Christie.......................3

The defender you'd want, by position, if you needed to make one stop to win a title:

Ron Artest........................20
Tim Duncan......................15
KG..................................13
Kobe................................12
Gary Payton.....................12

Unclebuck
03-27-2004, 09:40 AM
Most of that I agree with, in fact pretty much all of it makes sense.

Right now I would rank the best defensive teams this way in order.
1) Pistons
2) Spurs
3) Rockets
4) Pacers
5) Nets - When Kenyon and Kidd are healthy

Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

Anthem
03-27-2004, 12:09 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

Kstat
03-27-2004, 02:12 PM
Most of that I agree with, in fact pretty much all of it makes sense.

Right now I would rank the best defensive teams this way in order.
1) Pistons
2) Spurs
3) Rockets
4) Pacers
5) Nets - When Kenyon and Kidd are healthy

Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

See, the ironic thing is, now that he doesnt have the entire shotbloacking AND rebounding responsibility, Ben has really played well vs elite low post players. He's TOTALLY shut down Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Yao Ming, etc. The only player that has consistently given him problems this year has been JO. I'm not really sure why, because there are bigger and longer players that he's put the clamps on. I guess from watching him 4 games youd see things differently, but he has had an EXCELLENT year defending his man in the post.

tdeltdot
03-27-2004, 05:36 PM
Were there other players listed for this category, or just the top 3?:
"3 starters whose defense you like to exploit"

If not, any guesses who else would have received votes? The top 2 are certainly not surprises...

mmxx
03-28-2004, 08:03 PM
Were there other players listed for this category, or just the top 3?:
"3 starters whose defense you like to exploit"

If not, any guesses who else would have received votes? The top 2 are certainly not surprises...

how about... Jamaal Tinsley? :D

fwpacerfan
03-29-2004, 01:06 PM
You left off the best part of that article. They mentioned Jalen Rose and said he was bad on the ball defender, a bad off the ball defender and they said the worst part is 'he doesn't care.' :laugh:

I agree with pretty much everything they listed.

NewYawk
03-29-2004, 01:30 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

PistonsDynasty
03-29-2004, 03:30 PM
Nets - When Kenyon and Kidd are healthy

Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

Didn't me a Kstat just set you guys str8 about this?

When the game was on the line Ben Wallace shutdown and blocked the "BIG NAMES" in the NBA. Hell he almost won it for us in New Orlearns with that block but Jamaal made a good shot.

PistonsDynasty
03-29-2004, 03:33 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

Listen to YOURSELF man!!!

Why would you put the best off the ball defender on Jermaine O'Neal while we have another good defender that's able tocheck Jermaine O'Neal.

Off the ball means, off the ball. "Not the guy with the ball"

tdeltdot
03-29-2004, 09:09 PM
You left off the best part of that article. They mentioned Jalen Rose and said he was bad on the ball defender, a bad off the ball defender and they said the worst part is 'he doesn't care.' :laugh:

I agree with pretty much everything they listed.

If there's more to the article, can someone please post the link. I Googled it and got nothing.

NewYawk
03-30-2004, 10:56 AM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

Listen to YOURSELF man!!!

Why would you put the best off the ball defender on Jermaine O'Neal while we have another good defender that's able tocheck Jermaine O'Neal.

Off the ball means, off the ball. "Not the guy with the ball"

Because Wallace is listed as an excellent "post defender", which is complete BS.

Harddrive7
03-30-2004, 12:26 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

Listen to YOURSELF man!!!

Why would you put the best off the ball defender on Jermaine O'Neal while we have another good defender that's able tocheck Jermaine O'Neal.

Off the ball means, off the ball. "Not the guy with the ball"

If you don't put Rasheed on Artest and Ben on Jermaine, Ron is going to be shooting 20 free throws a game.

and if you don't foul Ron he's going to drop 30 on you anyway so...

PistonsDynasty
03-30-2004, 05:40 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

Listen to YOURSELF man!!!

Why would you put the best off the ball defender on Jermaine O'Neal while we have another good defender that's able tocheck Jermaine O'Neal.

Off the ball means, off the ball. "Not the guy with the ball"

Because Wallace is listed as an excellent "post defender", which is complete BS.

There goes your creditabilty (if you had any :unimpressed:)

NewYawk
03-30-2004, 05:48 PM
Are you high, man? Notice my earlier post:

I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. [Rolleyes] Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

I'm a little suspicious of this article that has no link, and even if it is legit, whoever they polled regarding Wallace and Shaq is BS. Exploiting Shaq for his defense? :rolleyes: Please!

If you disagree, fine. Wallace is not a good post defender. My opinion. When your team loses in the playoffs, most likely to Indiana, I look forward to showing you just how suspect Big Ben's defense is.

ChicagoJ
03-30-2004, 06:49 PM
Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league by far, but I would not rank him number one as far as low post one-on-one defender.

My thought exactly.

Maybe Detroit will play Ben on JO when we get to the EC Finals? I hope so.

I hope they do. JO kills Ben when Ben plays him. Ben Wallace is not a good post defender. I know this is a poll of coaches, but I've watched too many games to agree with this "poll." Wallace better than Duncan or Brown in post defense. Shaq as a guy whose defense you'd like to exploit. :rolleyes: Please. I know, I'll get ripped for this, but I just don't buy it. I'd like to see a link.

Where's Cliff Robinson on this list? Players are always commenting on how well he defends. Where' Brian Grant?

Listen to YOURSELF man!!!

Why would you put the best off the ball defender on Jermaine O'Neal while we have another good defender that's able tocheck Jermaine O'Neal.

Off the ball means, off the ball. "Not the guy with the ball"

Because Wallace is listed as an excellent "post defender", which is complete BS.

NY, just to prove I'm not a complete @$$, I completely agree with you here. Ben is a great off-the-ball defender, and Ben can be an effective post defender against certain guys. Heck, he might even push JO a foot or two farther from the basket than he'd like to be. But JO can just turn and shoot over him at will. And if Ben is assigned to JO, he can't afford to police the lane and play "goalie" - which is what he does best - because JO will get a lot of layups.

Ben's defense is very, very similar to Mutombo's. He's great at what he does well - play goalie, intimidate guards and forwards from coming into the paint, control the paint and the glass, etc. But for one-on-one post defense against an offensive-minded center like JO, he's just average.

Yes, Ben + 'Sheed + Okur/ Prince make a very formidable defensive frontcourt. But the Pacers have the skilled players and spacing to exploit that defense. It won't be easy, of course, but with Ron /Al / JO there are very few opportunities for the Pistons to double-team us. In the long run, we'll be able to score against them, but we will undoutedly have some long dry spells against them as well.

Regarding the Pistons, I'm especially concerned about Chauncey and Rip. Now, with 'Sheed in the mix, we also can't afford to let JO just sit back and play goalie or assist on defense if they get hot, because the Pistons also have more offense for us to deal with now. And if JO doesn't want to chase 'Sheed all the way out to the three-point line, he just might bury us.

tdeltdot
03-30-2004, 08:17 PM
I'm a little suspicious of this article that has no link, and even if it is legit, whoever they polled regarding Wallace and Shaq is BS. Exploiting Shaq for his defense? :rolleyes: Please!



I was a little shocked at first as well. But Shaq when he's in foul-trouble is about as exploitable as you can get. Perhaps, that was the reasoning...

And I'm still waiting for a link myself. Hello?

MSA2CF
03-30-2004, 08:21 PM
Shaq can be exploited with a big man who hangs on the outside...Raef LaFrentz/Shawn Bradley/Dirk Notwitzki/Brad Miller are a few names that come to my mind.

mmxx
03-30-2004, 10:09 PM
http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=261ed80449e182cfa48c189d0ca5301c&threadid=78231&forumid=2

here's where I came across it, the poster didn't post the link to the article.

I wanted to find the full article, too, since someone mentioned it also had something on Jalen, but couldn't.