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View Full Version : A first-hand observation of the new Miami Heat....



Kstat
10-23-2005, 11:15 AM
-First, their starters have little interest in playing any defense. JWill, Walker and Posey all seem content to let shaq be the lone defensive presense. Miami gave up more open threes than I can count. If Shaq's facial expressions are any indication, he'll hospitalize at least one of them for their poor defense by new year's. He looked VERY angry.

-Second, the Miami PGs are a chemistry disaster. JWill is not Damon Jones. He needs the ball to create. Miami did the inside/outside thing with JWill and Shaq, and JWill is NOT a spot up shooter. He destroys the offensive spacing, forces bad shots inside, and his three is inconsistent at best.

-Third, and I must admit I was wrong here. I thought that JWill Posey and Walker would take shots from Shaq. Shaq actually got the ball as much and as often as he wanted. The guy that suffered was Dwayne Wade.

Wade worked more off the ball than I'd ever seen him do, and he's not the kind of player that can catch and shoot. In short, he was playing Eddie Jones's role. Wade went 5-minute stretches without touching the ball, and Wade looked VERY angry every time Walker or JWill launched another shot. I've never seen such anger and disharmony over a preseason game.

-Stan Van Gundy will be fired before the playoffs. His team last year followed orders, played together and played hard. This current bunch is full of guys that will sink the ship if they arent getting thair own shots, and there is NO way to keep them all happy. It's justa matter of who SVG's excecutioner will be. After last night, Wade looks like a likely candidate.

I didn't believe it at first, but now I do think Riley is trying to get SVG fired.

However, SVG isn't innocent either. The Miami Heat have NO offensive philosophy besides "dump it in to shaq." They didn't run a set play all game. I'm not being sarcastic either. They don't run an offense. I'm shocked that a team 10 days from the regular season has NO idea of what it wants to accomplish on offense beyond their #1 option. They look like a pickup team. Once shaq passed the ball out, they had no clue wether to shoot, pass, or drive. This falls on SVG. Good coaches mesh egos. SVG is failing miserably here.

To top it all off, SVG forced Posey to play in garbage time, when the Pistons had nobody of note in the game, and Posey injured his shooting hand. Stupid, Stan.

Anthem
10-23-2005, 11:20 AM
One less team to worry about. I'm ok with a two-team race.

SoupIsGood
10-23-2005, 11:23 AM
Yep. IMO SVG is already gone, Riley has had him set up ever since he starting making those moves. Get a lot of talent, even though it obviously doesn't fit. The perfect crime. :D

pacerwaala
10-23-2005, 11:35 AM
-First, their starters have little interest in playing any defense. JWill, Walker and Posey all seem content to let shaq be the lone defensive presense. Miami gave up more open threes than I can count. If Shaq's facial expressions are any indication, he'll hospitalize at least one of them for their poor defense by new year's. He looked VERY angry.

-Second, the Miami PGs are a chemistry disaster. JWill is not Damon Jones. He needs the ball to create. Miami did the inside/outside thing with JWill and Shaq, and JWill is NOT a spot up shooter. He destroys the offensive spacing, forces bad shots inside, and his three is inconsistent at best.

-Third, and I must admit I was wrong here. I thought that JWill Posey and Walker would take shots from Shaq. Shaq actually got the ball as much and as often as he wanted. The guy that suffered was Dwayne Wade.

Wade worked more off the ball than I'd ever seen him do, and he's not the kind of player that can catch and shoot. In short, he was playing Eddie Jones's role. Wade went 5-minute stretches without touching the ball, and Wade looked VERY angry every time Walker or JWill launched another shot. I've never seen such anger and disharmony over a preseason game.

-Stan Van Gundy will be fired before the playoffs. His team last year followed orders, played together and played hard. This current bunch is full of guys that will sink the ship if they arent getting thair own shots, and there is NO way to keep them all happy. It's justa matter of who SVG's excecutioner will be. After last night, Wade looks like a likely candidate.

I didn't believe it at first, but now I do think Riley is trying to get SVG fired.

However, SVG isn't innocent either. The Miami Heat have NO offensive philosophy besides "dump it in to shaq." They didn't run a set play all game. I'm not being sarcastic either. They don't run an offense. I'm shocked that a team 10 days from the regular season has NO idea of what it wants to accomplish on offense beyond their #1 option. They look like a pickup team. Once shaq passed the ball out, they had no clue wether to shoot, pass, or drive. This falls on SVG. Good coaches mesh egos. SVG is failing miserably here.

To top it all off, SVG forced Posey to play in garbage time, when the Pistons had nobody of note in the game, and Posey injured his shooting hand. Stupid, Stan.


Obviously your observations are first hand and so I will defer to you but

1 - It is just a preseason game. Walker and Jwill are useless on defense but Posey is good on defense though. I think he will be a good defensive player in the course of the season.
2 - It takes time for a team to gell after such a drastic shake up.
3 - I think a good line up for them should be Shaq, Wade, Haslem, Walker and Posey. Walker and Wade can handle the ball.
4 - You are definitely right about Jwill not being to play inside out with Shaq.
But Walker will be good at that though.


I always think of Riles as a person with some integrity who is not that cheap to get SVG fired on purpose. (ala Popovich to hill)

Kstat
10-23-2005, 11:40 AM
3 - I think a good line up for them should be Shaq, Wade, Haslem, Walker and Posey. Walker and Wade can handle the ball.

After last night, there is ZERO chance Walker starts another game with Shaq. Shaq would break both of his arms. Haslem will definately start over him.

Walker is almost as bad a fit with Shaq as the PGs. He forces shots a ton in the post, and his FT, FG and 3point shooting% are beyond awful.

Also, putting Wade at PG only allows teams will collapse further into the paint. He has even less range than JWIll or Payton.

Unclebuck
10-23-2005, 11:46 AM
I said it when the trades were made. The heat made a mistake in changing their team like they did. Last year's team had great chemistry and all the role players gladly sacrificed for the good of the team. They just made too many chanhes to ta team that had the best record in the east. When you have the best record in the conference you make minor changes carefully.

Having said this and yes I've been reading about how things haven't been working well in south Florida. The Heat will still win 55 plus games and be a major factor in the playoffs as long as Wade and Shaq are healthy, those two aree just that good. A healthy Shaq alone will be enough to make them a huge force.

Suaveness
10-23-2005, 11:47 AM
What in the world Riley was thinking when he got those players is beyond me. If he was trying to get Stan fired, it was a stupid way to do it. But if he honestly thought that they would be a good fit together, you gotta wonder...

Evan_The_Dude
10-23-2005, 01:33 PM
I agree with what Kstat and Unclebuck have said here. I actually got into an arguement with somebody at work yesterday that said JWill is going to have a career year. My response was that he has to make his shots because with Shaq, he's going to be playing a role different than any he's ever played. I don't even know what they were thinking making that move.

Now, I think Walker will eventually find his role on the team. His shooting ability at his position should eventually take some offensive pressure off Shaq. But as Kstat said, on defense... :confused:

If Riley cares about this team succeeding he better make the head roll right now and take over as head coach.. like NOW!

I think Miami is seriously overhyped right now with the additions they've made. Hell, I'm more afraid of Cleveland than them!

Jermaniac
10-23-2005, 01:37 PM
Thanks for the recap KStat. Sounds like the Heat are in trouble, and I love it.

sixthman
10-23-2005, 02:11 PM
LOL's. Premature ejaculation here. I think the Heat are being buried way too soon. The playoffs are in May/June not October. Lots can and will happen between now and then.

Harmonica
10-23-2005, 02:51 PM
LOL's. Premature ejaculation here. I think the Heat are being buried way too soon. The playoffs are in May/June not October. Lots can and will happen between now and then.
Indeed.

Arcadian
10-23-2005, 03:17 PM
If Reily were really trying to fire the coach without actually firing him he should have hired Bird to the front office.

I don't think the Miami team can co-exist with each other. K-Stat only confirmed what I already believed: their defense will suffer, J-Will is the last point guard I would want to pair with Shaq and the chemistry between Shaq and Wade will suffer.

BlueNGold
10-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Indeed.
No doubt. Totally premature to make any conclusions...but I like the fact they have no dead eye three point specialist like D Jones. Shaq has always been on a team with better outside shooters. We can only hope he and the rest of the team get frustrated and their chemistry suffers.

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 04:00 PM
I don't think the Heat will look the same as they do know by the end of the season.

SoupIsGood
10-23-2005, 05:17 PM
I don't think the Heat will look the same as they do know by the end of the season.

Me either. Riles will step in and trade for the solid, but less talented vets he should have normally acquired in the offseason...

pb777
10-23-2005, 05:50 PM
The jury is still out on them imo, but we play them twice in the next 2 or 3 weeks so we'll all get a first-hand look at them...

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 06:13 PM
The jury is still out on them imo, but we play them twice in the next 2 or 3 weeks so we'll all get a first-hand look at them...Thats true. God, It's amazing the season starts in a couple of weeks. I am so hyped! We're gonna kick @$$ and take names later.

Fool
10-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Along with that mountain of bad things to say about the Heat comes the fact that for 3 quarters of the game the Heat were about 2 points down to the Pistons. And thats with Wade looking like he'd rather be hitting on one of the cheerleaders then standing on the court.

Arcadian
10-23-2005, 06:38 PM
The only part of the Heat's offseason moves that I think was really bad was bringing in Williams. When he moved or benched the Heat will be in good shape.

FreshPrince22
10-23-2005, 10:23 PM
They did look absolutely awful last night. Hell, our 2nd unit (Arroyo, Evans, Delfino, Dice, Darko) torched their team with Wade, Payton, Posey, Haslem, and Zo in the game. So, that's 3 starters and 2 All-star veterans.

Darko posterized Zo, and that team just looked slow all over. Posey looks extremely sluggish as well.

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 10:26 PM
SVG's days are definitely numbered.

Bball
10-24-2005, 02:55 AM
Methinks WAY too much is being read into a meaningless preseason game.

-Bball

Fool
10-24-2005, 08:36 AM
Methinks WAY too much is being read into a meaningless preseason game.

-Bball

No, you just don't understand what counts in preseason. If a guy on your team does unusually well thats credible. If a player on another team does well, "its just preseason" and doesn't mean anything. If your team is winning games, it speaks to how they will play during the season. If your team is losing games, then Ls and Ws don't matter in preseason its all about figuring out your rotations. If an other team plays poorly, it shows how much a mistake their moves in the off season were. If an opponent's player does poorly, it shows just how overated he is. Oh, and in preseason every team has "the greatest bench ever assembled" and any good team is "the greatest team the league has ever seen".

Clearly, this game was meaningful.

Hicks
10-24-2005, 09:35 AM
Personally, I'm not a big supporter of sarcasm, but that was pretty good.

Heh heh AwwwwwRiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

ChicagoJ
10-24-2005, 11:36 AM
Personally, I'm not a big supporter of sarcasm, I think there were more words that followed.

I just stopped reading right there.

:lol:

reggie31mate
10-24-2005, 01:26 PM
This team indeed looks shaky right now, but don't forget that they have tradeable players right now. JWill, Walker, Payton..I mean yeah they suck and probably won't be able to cooperate with Shaq and Wade, but they're still better trade baits than Eddie Jones was. Now all Van Gundy has to do is develop a healthy chemistry, experiment with the players..who's cooperative enough to stay and who can go.. They can easily get rid of the players who couse trouble and get some role players back.. I wouldn't write them off just yet, and I think they're still dangerous. Any team with Wade & Shaq is dangerous..

But of course I have no doubt that we will DESTROY this year!!!
Go Pacers!

CableKC
10-24-2005, 02:23 PM
KStat....good analysis. I haven't watched a game with the Heat yet....but I'm not surprised by what you posted. When you have too many chefs in the kitchen....you're only going to have your goose cooked. :laugh:

But I thought it would be the opposite.....it would be Shaq and Wade dominating the ball and JWill and 'Toine watching happily from the perimeter.....not the other way around. If I were a Heat fan...I can tolerate 'Toine and JWill standing around while Shaq and Wade made the majority of the shots....but I will not be happy if Wade is standing around watching JWill and 'Toine hucking up shots. Looking at the stats over the preseason games.....it looks like 'Toine takes as many shots ( if not more ) then Wade.....which is a real bad thing. I would think that the roles are pretty cut and dry.......Shaq and Wade should be touching the ball for a majority of the game as the primary 1st and 2nd scoring options ( depending on the matchups ) and Walker would be the 3rd scoring option...but only when both Wade and Shaq are double-teamed.

I would guess the Heat would still win their division.......but have heavy competition from the Wizards and possibly the Magic. But I can see rough waters ahead for them.

For us Pacer fans ( and our residential Pistons fan ), thats fine with me.....the more turmoil for the Heat...the better.

CableKC
10-24-2005, 02:32 PM
This team indeed looks shaky right now, but don't forget that they have tradeable players right now. JWill, Walker, Payton..I mean yeah they suck and probably won't be able to cooperate with Shaq and Wade, but they're still better trade baits than Eddie Jones was. Now all Van Gundy has to do is develop a healthy chemistry, experiment with the players..who's cooperative enough to stay and who can go.. They can easily get rid of the players who couse trouble and get some role players back.. I wouldn't write them off just yet, and I think they're still dangerous. Any team with Wade & Shaq is dangerous..

But of course I have no doubt that we will DESTROY this year!!!
Go Pacers!
Can JWill and Walker be traded so soon during this season?

or

Do they have to wait for the next offseason to do it?