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View Full Version : Vecsey} Pacers interested in Magliore



Will Galen
10-23-2005, 03:55 AM
This isn't the first rumor that has the Pacers interested in Magliore. Rumor was they were interested before the draft.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/53784.htm

Sign Or Trade
by Peter Vecsey, NY Post

October 23, 2005 -- Hoop du Jour DUE to deadlines and (no) commitments, one or two major trades, possibly more, are almost guaranteed to ignite before a World Series winner is declared some time before stockings are hung with the greatest of care.

Actually, NBA teams only have until Oct. 31 to extend first-round draft picks with three years' service. The Suns and Rockets exhausted no brain power when choosing to lock up Amare Stoudemire and Yao Ming at max money for the next five seasons after this one.

Decisions regarding how much, if anything, to invest long-term in Nene, Tayshaun Prince, Mike Dunleavy, Fred Jones, Chris Wilcox, Melvin Ely, Drew Gooden, Caron Butler, Jared Jeffries, Jeri Welsch, Rasual Butler and John Salmons continue.

Nene headlines my list of the unsigned, because he's most likely to be ceded within the next eight days. The Nuggets already are softly flirting with this year's luxury tax level of $61.7 million. They're $4.8 million below, and that's far too close for comfort for owner E. Stanley Kroenke. Meanwhile, without Nene on next season's salary cap books, they'd be at $53,695,295.

Thus, it appears Denver cannot afford to sign its 6-11, 260-pound Man From Sao Carlos, Brazil. At the same time, they're afraid the forward formerly known as Maybyner Rodney Hilario will generate an offer too big to match next summer.

In other words, here today, gone later today.

Sad to say, your guess is as good as mine as to where Nene figures to wind up. All I know for sure is the Grizzlies, Bulls, Hawks and probably a dozen other teams have ample minutes for him in their starting lineup.

Another name on loose lips is Jamaal Magliore. Sources say the Pacers, Grizzlies, Bulls, Clippers, Hawks, and Blazers are all over the Hornets regarding their All-Star (two seasons back) center, who'd really rather leave but is keeping a low profile so his exodus can be handled professionally.

Supposedly, there's something semi-serious in the works involving Magliore and Corey Maggette, but my L.A. pipeline somewhat devalues that floating perception. While admitting there has been some talk along those lines, he states he can't see it happening unless the deal is expanded mightily to include J.R. Smith.

It's inconceivable that the Hornets would even entertain such an impure thought. Barring a severely swollen ego (judging by Smith's unsavory shot selection, it's plain to see he's appreciably smitten with himself), J. R. and rookie playmaker Chris Paul, an inherent leader, are the franchise's backcourt for now and forever.

*

By the way, did you see where the Garden was overrun last night by sumo wrestlers? Fifteen of them were able to beat Eddy Curry back on defense.

*

Contrary to widespread reports, the Celtics and Clippers never have engaged in any conversation whatsoever re Maggette and Paul Pierce. It's almost amusing that one obscure publication can fabricate a story and how many established newspapers run with it without bothering (maybe they just don't have the necessary resources) to fact check.

Obviously that's too much to ask when everyone working for hoopshype.com evidently failed English comprehension. Last week I wrote that Charles Barkley encouraged Eddy Curry to take the DNA test even though it's not multiple choice. Naturally, the Internet site doesn't get it without sub-titles; Barkley's "message" to Curry became a hoopshype headline. For the edification of hoopshype.com these next items are fact, not facetious, from real sources, not pretend:

The Celtics approached the Mavericks a while back about Pierce but were rejected for two reasons. Dallas believes you can't have two official scorers and everyone's very satisfied with the one (Dirk Nowitzki) already on tap. Moreover, acquiring Pierce meant also having to take a bad contract or two off Boston's cap.

Darius Miles, who may very well be the Trail Blazers' point leader this season if Zach Randolph's surgically-repaired (mirofracture) knee (and attitude) doesn't improve any time soon was offered for Maggette last week; my Paper Clips weren't remotely interested.

Dr Huxtable
10-23-2005, 03:58 AM
Here we go again...

Did anyone else find that article very difficult the read, just the way it was written? I mean, I know it's Peter Vecsey.. :D But it was written very oddly. Maybe it's just because it's really late?

Naptown Seth
10-23-2005, 06:29 AM
I'd love for Bender to keep up his high caliber play into the regular season. His trade value would skyrocket, and he would be a very attractive piece to the Hornets.

Bender + Fred Jones + 1st for Magloires.

Tinsley/Saras/Johnson
Jackson/Johnson/Artest
Artest/Granger/Jackson
O'Neal/Foster/Croshere
Magloire/Pollard/Harrison

Wow!

DisplacedKnick
10-23-2005, 08:27 AM
Here we go again...

Did anyone else find that article very difficult the read, just the way it was written? I mean, I know it's Peter Vecsey.. :D But it was written very oddly. Maybe it's just because it's really late?

My Peter Vescey Tolerance Level has dropped off rather sharply lately. Used to be you could find some decent info in it but now it's just garbage.

The day will come when his articles will consist of nothing but lame one-liners.

Jim R
10-23-2005, 09:01 AM
How about Vescey giving Hoopshype.com a lot of free pub? :)

Guys like Vescey think the world wakes up to read him, and it often manifests itself by ripping his competition. He either had so little to say this week he was desperate, or he was so consumed by his competition (even though the comparison is apples to oranges) that it reduced limited point of view even more.

He's probably still upset that TNT dumped him, only to see a guy like Chad Ford, who had a similar site to Hoopshype.com before guesting on ESPN, become a full blown employee at ESPN. He's probably worried another non-newsprint endowed member of the media will get his shot, surpassing Vescey's dreams.

SoupIsGood
10-23-2005, 09:47 AM
He'd be nice to have, but I don't see us having the pieces to get it done.

Anthem
10-23-2005, 10:20 AM
He'd be nice to have, but I don't see us having the pieces to get it done.
As has been pointed out, it's all about Bender.

Granger's going to take the role we had for Bender (backup PF/SF) if he becomes half the player we think he's going to be. I really think that Bender might have finally been made extraneous in the minds of TPTB now that Granger's doing so well. Otherwise, why push him towards PF if that's Bender's spot?

Bender/AJ/Fred/Cro/First/Cash works for Mags/Brown/Butler. :D We get mags, keep a body at PF (don't think Brown's better than Cro at this stage of life), and cut salary slightly.

Unclebuck
10-23-2005, 10:37 AM
Read in the NY Daily News today, that teams shouldn't bother approaching the Pacers about Artest unless you are offering a top 10 player in return.

Kaufman
10-23-2005, 10:53 AM
If Bender keeps playing the way he does, I don't think I trade him for anything, either. Bender creates mismatches all over the place. If said party remains healthy, it would be foolish to trade him for a guy who is past his prime.

Harmonica
10-23-2005, 11:07 AM
If Bender keeps playing the way he does, I don't think I trade him for anything, either. Bender creates mismatches all over the place. If said party remains healthy, it would be foolish to trade him for a guy who is past his prime.

Fool's gold.

Anthem
10-23-2005, 11:30 AM
Fool's gold.

He can keep doing it if he can stay healthy. Of course, the odds of that...

Like I said, we're better off w/ Granger than Bender. If Bender stays hot, we should trade him.

Mourning
10-23-2005, 11:38 AM
Aggreed!

Kaufman
10-23-2005, 12:00 PM
You think trade him like we did Duane Ferrell back in the 90's when he got hot? I'm not so sure I'd trade Bender, but I'm not sold he's not fools gold either.

Basically my jury is still out.

Anthem
10-23-2005, 12:04 PM
Here's the thing. Let's say Bender becomes everything we :sunshine: hope he can become. What then?

The man doesn't have a place on this team. It's grown past him. Granger has the opportunity to fit in very well, and every minute Bender is on the court is a minute Granger isn't getting experience.

Harmonica
10-23-2005, 12:05 PM
He can keep doing it if he can stay healthy. Of course, the odds of that...

Like I said, we're better off w/ Granger than Bender. If Bender stays hot, we should trade him.

I refuse to even entertain the thought.

Mourning
10-23-2005, 12:13 PM
Than also take into account the salary he is commanding now and WILL be commanding IF (big "if") he stays healthy, besides that we are up short for minutes now that Granger is on the team.

Freddie, Jonathan (IF he indeed has a decent to good season, meaning atleast 60 games) and and a couple of future 2nd rounders should net us a decent Center, add Foster and subtract the 2nd rounders and we could TRY for something better than decent, I guess.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 12:30 PM
I would make sure AJ was sent in the deal to get Mag. It's not that I don't like AJ, but having 4 PGs on one team is crazy.

Jermaniac
10-23-2005, 12:32 PM
AJ or Fred+Foster+1st round pick for Mags.

DisplacedKnick
10-23-2005, 12:51 PM
If Bender keeps playing the way he does, I don't think I trade him for anything, either. Bender creates mismatches all over the place.

Sure does - when he's on defense any other team has an automatic mismatch to take advantage of.

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 12:52 PM
I wouldn't trade Foster. He is literally the perfect fit for our team. We have all the fire power we need in JO, Ronnie, SJax, Sarunas, and Granger. Foster is the hustler that everyone wants on their team. He doesn't demand the ball in the post and he is tough as nails. I read an interesting fact on Foster the other day. Did you know that Jeff didn't get an allowance or have a job in high school? His dad gave him a dollar for every rebound he got. I know that was a little off topic but I thought it was very interesting. Back on topic, Foster is the man for the Pacers whether it be starting or coming of the bench. He brings the old school game that made the NBA so great and competitive and fun to watch. Foster stays!

PacerMan
10-23-2005, 12:58 PM
Here's the thing. Let's say Bender becomes everything we :sunshine: hope he can become. What then?

The man doesn't have a place on this team. It's grown past him. Granger has the opportunity to fit in very well, and every minute Bender is on the court is a minute Granger isn't getting experience.

Madness. Are you forgetting that RON ARTEST is our #2 scorer? ONE incident and everything changes drastically. Then we're back to last season but with a good looking rookie. Bender then becomes a HUGE piece of the puzzle. As he will on THIS years team.
Hulk/Bender/Granger second unit.
What doesn't fit there?????????????????????????????

Evan_The_Dude
10-23-2005, 01:17 PM
If JB turns out to be the player we've been hoping he'd be for what.. 7 seasons now.. I'd say keep him. If he's THAT good We'll make room for him. Now if Granger proves to be as good as - or better than advertised, along with an outstanding Bender, then you might see Artest go bye bye as much as I hate to say that. Artest could get us a top tier 2 guard... and while I like SJax, I think we can do better. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here. But point is, If Granger is as good as advertised - or better - then there's just not room for him and Artest on the same team.

Not saying I'm all for an Artest trade, because I'm not, but that's reality. If Granger is THAT good, you gotta make him happy and put him in the lineup. Maybe eventually Artest can help us get that center we so badly need? Who knows?

Arcadian
10-23-2005, 03:24 PM
I'd rather Granger make Ron expendible than Bender.

Sollozzo
10-23-2005, 03:50 PM
He'd be nice to have, but I don't see us having the pieces to get it done.


Are you kidding?

We have plenty of pieces to "get it done", the question is if we would part with certian players.

Pacers#1Fan
10-23-2005, 03:54 PM
I'd rather Granger make Ron expendible than Bender.I wouldn't go that far. :nono:

indytoad
10-23-2005, 03:58 PM
I wouldn't read too much into this, the Pacers always end up on those lists of teams supposedly interested in someone (Blazers seem to make that list pretty often too). I don't think anything ever comes of it.

IndyToad
Marvelous

Naptown Seth
10-23-2005, 04:32 PM
I wouldn't read too much into this, the Pacers always end up on those lists of teams supposedly interested in someone (Blazers seem to make that list pretty often too). I don't think anything ever comes of it.

IndyToad
Marvelous
True, but you have to think Bird and Walsh have entertained the thought of getting a center of Magloires caliber. If he's truly available, I don't see why they wouldn't atleast make an offer. The worst thing that could happen is they get turned down, whoopdy doo.

BlueNGold
10-23-2005, 04:45 PM
He can keep doing it if he can stay healthy. Of course, the odds of that...

Like I said, we're better off w/ Granger than Bender. If Bender stays hot, we should trade him.

Man, I love Bender's game...but even I have to agree with that. He could have a setback at any time.

Destined4Greatness
10-23-2005, 04:50 PM
And Granger could be a bust. Lets wait till Granger has played a few games, minutes, plays of the regular season before we give him the key to the city.

SoupIsGood
10-23-2005, 04:50 PM
Are you kidding?

We have plenty of pieces to "get it done", the question is if we would part with certian players.

:rolleyes: You could say that for every team. When someone says "pieces" they generally mean expendable pieces.

Arcadian
10-23-2005, 04:51 PM
Why wouldn't one of the deepest teams with a need at center be interested in Magliore?

The only reason it wouldn't happen is they want an all star (Ron or JO), or that they won't want a guard (Tinsley, Jones or AJ) as they are building around their backcourt of Paul and Smith.

SoupIsGood
10-23-2005, 05:13 PM
To trade a center as good as Magloire, they are either going to want a player at another position better than him, or picks and some nice young talent. Unless Artest is either made expendable or tossed from the team (both unlikely) later in the season, it wouldn't make sense for us to part with a player clearly better than Mags.

So, let's look at our young talent.

David Harrison
Jon Bender
Danny Granger
Fred Jones


Danny should never be viewed as expendable as long as Artest is on this team. Even if Jon stays healthy, his injury history and the risk that comes with it lowers his value. David is still a nice young prospect at a position that is in need both here and around the league, I'm going to go ahead and say he's not expendable. IMO DW would agree with me, but Larry? I could see him tossing him into the mess. ( :( )

So that leaves us with JB, FJ, a pick, and maybe AJ. Not going to get it done IMO.

If he comes here, it will because we sent them David. (Even then I think another team would beat that offer) And I will just say that I hope Bird is nearly 100% sure that David will be a career reserve before he does something like that.

PacRaz27
10-23-2005, 06:34 PM
I don't know why anybody has any hope for Bender anymore. If the Hornets would take him in a deal for Magloire, do it!

BlueNGold
10-23-2005, 06:56 PM
I don't know why anybody has any hope for Bender anymore. If the Hornets would take him in a deal for Magloire, do it!
If we could get Mag for Bender/AJ, it would be a fantasy. That would be a starter for 2 backups. Unfortunately, I think if we get Mag right now, it will require someone we are unwilling to give up...so it won't happen yet.

...but if Granger adequately spells Artest AND Bender keeps healthy through mid season, I would be willing to give up Artest for Mag...or if the contracts don't work grab other pieces from both teams to make it work. Mag is a quality big man and there are very few of them in the league. We need a tough durable guy to contend with Miami and Detroit's size. I don't see us getting by them without another stud in the middle.

Arcadian
10-23-2005, 07:00 PM
I'm not sure Fred qualifies as young talent anymore. I really think if the trade were done it would require Harrison and taking on Lynch. They should be looking for frontcourt starting prospects as opposed to second string guards which AJ and Jones would both be in NO.

Pacerized
10-23-2005, 07:08 PM
We've had this Maglorie trade thrown up at least 10 times this year. I'd love to have him on the team at the right price, but I just don't see him improving us that much. He's the best available center on the market, but I just don't think he's that good. He's a very minor improvement over a healthy Foster. Slightly better scorer, significantly worse rebounder, and defensively I'd give the slight edge to Jeff. If the team could dump some salary getting him, or they're just giving him away the way Atlanta did Wallace, then I say we do it. Otherwise we shouldn't be willing to give up too much to improve this little.

PacerMan
10-23-2005, 07:49 PM
I don't know why anybody has any hope for Bender anymore. If the Hornets would take him in a deal for Magloire, do it!


Because they have eyes? He's 24 y/o for cripes sake.

Will Galen
10-23-2005, 11:37 PM
To start, lets use some logic to look at this and quit trading a bunch of backups for a starter. Look at the Hornets roster. Other than Maglorie, they have the Birdman, Chris Andersen, who's listed as a 6'10 FC. They have PJ Brown who's listed as a 6'11 CF and he's 36 years old., and Jackson Vroman a 6'10 FC. Who would be their center if they trade Mags?

It only makes sense that if they trade Mags to us they will want either Foster or Harrison along with another prospect or two. They also want to get rid of George Lynch, so any trade acceptable to them would probably have to enclude him. Mags and Lynch total $11,733,000 in payroll.

So the question is who would Bird be most likely to trade, Foster or Harrison? Since Harrison is a true center I think most would agree the Pacers and Bird would trade Foster first. His paycheck is $4,756,000. That means we have to add contracts in the vicinty of $4 million for any trade to work. The problem with that is the Pacers ARE NOT going to add money to their payroll and thus have to pay even more luxary tax. So any trade must be close to even, or even lower the Pacers payroll.

The Hornets aren't going to take Croshere or Pollard, and we won't add Artest or Jackson. So it looks like our offer must include Foster and Bender. (Total $11,850,000) But would the Pacers trade Bender? And why not throw in Gill, so the Pacers save some more money?

So would you trade Foster, Bender, and Gill, for Maglorie and Lynch? That looks like about the best offer the Pacers would make. Maybe they would add Johnson or Jones instead of Gill, but that's about it. Other trades look to be to lop sided or won't work contract wise.

Unclebuck
10-24-2005, 12:23 AM
Will, that is a very realistic scenerio.

Before I would even consider trading for Magloire I need to know more about his injury situation.

Arcadian
10-24-2005, 12:34 AM
I thought about Foster but I doubt they would take him considering his age and injury situation. Of course the same could have been said about Pollard when he was with the Kings.

The more I think about it I believe they would want some combination with Harrison and Granger. They are interested in collecting young talent to go with Paul and Smith not pieces which would make them a better team in the short term.

Peck
10-24-2005, 12:36 AM
To start, lets use some logic to look at this and quit trading a bunch of backups for a starter. Look at the Hornets roster. Other than Maglorie, they have the Birdman, Chris Andersen, who's listed as a 6'10 FC. They have PJ Brown who's listed as a 6'11 CF and he's 36 years old., and Jackson Vroman a 6'10 FC. Who would be their center if they trade Mags?

It only makes sense that if they trade Mags to us they will want either Foster or Harrison along with another prospect or two. They also want to get rid of George Lynch, so any trade acceptable to them would probably have to enclude him. Mags and Lynch total $11,733,000 in payroll.

So the question is who would Bird be most likely to trade, Foster or Harrison? Since Harrison is a true center I think most would agree the Pacers and Bird would trade Foster first. His paycheck is $4,756,000. That means we have to add contracts in the vicinty of $4 million for any trade to work. The problem with that is the Pacers ARE NOT going to add money to their payroll and thus have to pay even more luxary tax. So any trade must be close to even, or even lower the Pacers payroll.

The Hornets aren't going to take Croshere or Pollard, and we won't add Artest or Jackson. So it looks like our offer must include Foster and Bender. (Total $11,850,000) But would the Pacers trade Bender? And why not throw in Gill, so the Pacers save some more money?

So would you trade Foster, Bender, and Gill, for Maglorie and Lynch? That looks like about the best offer the Pacers would make. Maybe they would add Johnson or Jones instead of Gill, but that's about it. Other trades look to be to lop sided or won't work contract wise.


How fast can I type yes????

Hell yes!!!!!

Without a doubt or hessitation on my part.

sweabs
10-24-2005, 12:39 AM
Will, that is a very realistic scenerio.

Before I would even consider trading for Magloire I need to know more about his injury situation.

There really isn't much of one. Look at his first 3 seasons in the league; last year's problem was a freak thing. Part of the reason he missed so much time was because he wanted to have no part of that team once they traded Baron, so I think he took his time getting better.

I'd take Magloire in a heartbeat. You could throw a bunch of players' names on our team out there, and I'd be pretty happy - I'm flexible. We need a centre THAT bad.

Anthem
10-24-2005, 01:00 AM
I really like Foster. I think he's a great fit for this team. Peck doesn't like him, I know, but I think he's great.

And I'd still trade Foster/Bender/AJ for Mags/Lynch in a New York minute.

Hicks
10-24-2005, 01:05 AM
Foster and Bender for Magloire and Lynch works financially.

Will Galen
10-24-2005, 01:33 AM
I thought about Foster but I doubt they would take him considering his age and injury situation. Of course the same could have been said about Pollard when he was with the Kings.

The more I think about it I believe they would want some combination with Harrison and Granger. They are interested in collecting young talent to go with Paul and Smith not pieces which would make them a better team in the short term.

Foster is 28, a year older than Maglorie, so I don't see where age would enter into it. And as for Foster being injured I thought of that and I don't see it being a big problem if the Hornets wanted to do the trade.

As for the Hornets wanting some combination of Harrison and Granger, that
doesn't matter. It's what both teams will agree to that matters. The Pacers would never agree to trade those two for Maglorie. Simply put I would be surprised if the Pacers would trade Harrison, and I would be downright shocked if they traded Granger. Lets put it this way, I can see Artest being traded straight up for Maglorie before they would put Granger into a trade.

As for your scenario of some combination of Harrison and Granger. Maglorie makes $8.5 million. Danny Granger makes $1.3 million, and Harrison makes $690,000, not quite $2 million total. So not only do we have to trade our two best young prospects we have to add more players to make the trade work. Pacers wouldn't do it.

Trades have to be realistic from both sides and work financially. The Hornets want to get rid of Lynch pretty bad so any suitors for Maglorie will have to take him too.

Anthem
10-24-2005, 02:19 AM
Foster and Bender for Magloire and Lynch works financially.

They're under the cap, so you can add AJ and it still works. RealGM ID 2602458.

That might tip the scales a little far on our side, but a pick probably evens it out. Heck, include R. Butler and I'm happy. No, we have no immediate use for him, but nothing says we can't trade him later. Lynch and Butler to Atlanta for cap space and a pick? I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Naptown Seth
10-24-2005, 02:55 AM
I think the Hornets would prefer Harrison over Foster due to his youth, size and upside.
Bender + Harrison works straight up for Magloire. Pacers could even through in a 1st. If Bender actually stays healthy and produces thats a nice deal for the young rebuilding Hornets.
As for Lynch, he's an expiring contract, they'd be better off just cutting him nad letting his contract expire at seasons end than pick up mediocre overpaid talent for him.

indygeezer
10-24-2005, 07:53 AM
I think the Hornets would prefer Harrison over Foster due to his youth, size and upside.
Bender + Harrison works straight up for Magloire. Pacers could even through in a 1st. If Bender actually stays healthy and produces thats a nice deal for the young rebuilding Hornets.
As for Lynch, he's an expiring contract, they'd be better off just cutting him nad letting his contract expire at seasons end than pick up mediocre overpaid talent for him.


Exactly as I see it.

Harrison and Bender = youth and experience of being on a contending team. Even if it was just practice. Lynch you keep so you can have a salary dump at seasons end just as we will with Pollard. HArrison gives NO the center they would lack and JB would be a local draw (if they ever make it back to NO).
Teams will be throwing bigtime trades at NO, if this story is legit, and we couldn't offer 2nd stringers and expect them to blink. In reality, this is just a bunch of hooey as are all reports which link the P's to trades.

:geezer: What I'm saying is :bs2:

Mourning
10-24-2005, 12:07 PM
How fast can I type yes????

Hell yes!!!!!

Without a doubt or hessitation on my part.

Can I stand in line too! 100% aggree with you on this Peck, and I really like Foster, but this is a must-do for us if we could get it done, sure add either Freddie or AJ if needed, give them Gill too!

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Pacersfan46
10-24-2005, 01:00 PM
Man, I'd be wary of trading Bender. I can just absolutely see him going somewhere being completely healthy and just putting up something in the range of 15 points, 7 rebs, and 2 blocks a game with starters minutes.

Where he could go from there in the future, is a mystery.

beast23
10-24-2005, 01:57 PM
I would agree that a trade of Foster/Bender or Foster/Bender/(Gill or AJ) for Magloire/Lynch would be a great trade for the Pacers. Heck, I’d even through in a first round pick as well.

But one thing that I’d demand would be an extension for Magliore. Isn’t he, like Lynch, in the last year of his contract? What good would finally getting a center we can use if we only risk losing him after the season? Seems like we just did that with Dale, didn’t we?

As for Bender suddenly providing 15/7/2? I think Magloire would deliver 15/10/2, along with being a much better offensive contributor at center plus the defense anchor in the middle that we need.

I’ve already seen enough of Granger to believe that he will be a much better rounded player than Bender ever will be. It is possible that Bender will be healthy and might even become an 18/8/4 player. Even if he did, I believe Granger could produce the same numbers, and provide better all-around defense.

I’m with the others. Foster’s natural role would be that of an excellent backup center if we only had a truly decent starting center. Even with health and improvement, Bender will never be more than a #6-#8 player with this team.

Decent natural centers are becoming a very rare commodity. We’d be nuts not to acquire one if all we had to do was give up two subs to accomplish the trade.

CableKC
10-24-2005, 03:06 PM
Decent natural centers are becoming a very rare commodity. Wed be nuts not to acquire one if all we had to do was give up two subs to accomplish the trade.
That's the very reason why he wouldn't be coming to the Pacers. The Hornets know that they have something of value that they can trade with.

The Pacers do not have anything of real value ( other then AJ, Freddie, Foster and Harrison ) that they could part with that the Hornets would want in return to get Magliore. But I would think that the Hornets would be able to get a decent return by trading Magliore.

Although Magliore is a solid Center ( which is hard to find ), statistically....he is only a slightly better rebounder but a much better scorer and shotblocker then Foster is.

Magliore ( 2003-2004 season ) 13ppg/10rpg/1bpg
Magliore ( 2004-2005 season ) 11ppg/9rpg/1bpg

Foster ( 2003-2004 season ) 6ppg/7rpb/.3bpg
Foster ( 2004-2005 season ) 7ppg/9rpb/.2bpg

Although scoring and shotblocking is improved.......Foster doesn't really score much less block shots. On top of that....Magliore isn't the shotblocking machine that I was expecting.

About 2 years ago...I would have wanted Magliore. But now....I would only want to part with Harrison....and I would barely want to do that. Magliore would be an upgrade at the Center position for the Pacers....but not as much as I would want. At this point.....I would want to role the dice on Harrison and keep Foster and resign Pollard to the minimum vet salary.

Arcadian
10-24-2005, 03:10 PM
Trades have to be realistic from both sides and work financially. The Hornets want to get rid of Lynch pretty bad so any suitors for Maglorie will have to take him too.

Come on, Will, I didn't say trade Granger and Harrison straight up for Maglorie. My opinion is that Foster, Bender + AJ is enough for JM and Lynch isn't enough. (I don't even think replacing Foster with Harrison is.)

CableKC
10-24-2005, 03:11 PM
As for Bender suddenly providing 15/7/2? I think Magloire would deliver 15/10/2, along with being a much better offensive contributor at center plus the defense anchor in the middle that we need.
Looking at his career.....Magliore has not averaged more then 1.35 bpg in a season ( and this was about 2 seasons ago ). He would provide more of an offensive threat at the Center spot then Foster....but I don't think he will put up 15ppg ( IMHO that's too optimistic ).

Mourning
10-24-2005, 03:24 PM
I think Maglore is a typical case of where the average stats do not tell the whole story.

I mean most stats presented don't show how much shots Magloire has altered forinstance, but due to his size, strength, weight, reputation and shot-blocking ability I would be VERY surprised if he would not be much better in that area, compared to Foster. Also these stats don't tell us how many shots his direct opponents have taken vs him and then those same opponents vs other centers.

I think Magloire brings in a certain intimidation factor to our middle, which I for one would love to have. It would mean we have excellent defenders at every position, except PG. The extra scoring is nice, but I could live with him scoring 8 or 9 ppg on average. Also his defence is quite different from how Foster plays his (fronting mostly). Now Foster is a good player to have, but against some really strong centers ... he's basically almost useless (yeah, I know he IS good against Duncan though).

Acquiring Magloire would mean we could face the few dominant teams which are very strong or HUGE inside (Miami, Detroit and SA come to mind forinstance) and play much more physical, block more shots, so they would have to depend more of their outside shooting (which is much less reliable than dunking it :duh:), forcing our opponents to adjust and denying them even more than we could do now.

Offcourse, this also would mean we could let go of Pollard after this season for sure, as we have someone else who could be decent against the real big boys. Also together with David, I think we would really be settled. Get a cheap backup in Free Agency or via the draft and it seems almost perfect.

Obtaining Magloire and Lynch and sacrificing Foster, Freddie/AJ and Bender for them ... let's do it. I would indeed, if possible, to have him resigned to a new contract though, because I wouldn't want to give this all up and than seeying him walk at the end of 2007.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Will Galen
10-24-2005, 04:59 PM
Come on, Will, I didn't say trade Granger and Harrison straight up for Maglorie. My opinion is that Foster, Bender + AJ is enough for JM and Lynch isn't enough. (I don't even think replacing Foster with Harrison is.)


I know you didn't say trade Granger and Harrison straight up for Maglorie. You said, "I believe they would want some combination with Harrison and Granger." I believed that meant more than Harrison and Granger, that's why I used your words.

And I agree with your thinking that Foster, Bender, and AJ, wouldn't be enough to get the job done, but that is the best that I think the Pacers will offer. Put simply I don't think we will get Maglorie.

SoupIsGood
10-24-2005, 05:26 PM
I'd rather keep Foster and David. David will be as good as Mags eventually.

Will Galen
10-24-2005, 05:26 PM
Maglorie has another year on his contract. I think he signed a contract two years ago for at least three years, so this would be his second year.

Will Galen
10-24-2005, 05:28 PM
I'd rather keep Foster and David. David will be as good as Mags eventually.

So would I, but are they going to be healthy? I think not.

SoupIsGood
10-24-2005, 05:31 PM
So would I, but are they going to be healthy? I think not.

They won't be healthy for the first month of the season at most. How can you know anything past then? Foster has usually played a lot of games for us every year, and it's way too early in David's career to know.

Pacerized
10-24-2005, 08:44 PM
Although Magliore is a solid Center ( which is hard to find ), statistically....he is only a slightly better rebounder but a much better scorer and shotblocker then Foster is.

Magliore ( 2003-2004 season ) 13ppg/10rpg/1bpg
Magliore ( 2004-2005 season ) 11ppg/9rpg/1bpg

Foster ( 2003-2004 season ) 6ppg/7rpb/.3bpg
Foster ( 2004-2005 season ) 7ppg/9rpb/.2bpg

Although scoring and shotblocking is improved.......Foster doesn't really score much less block shots. On top of that....Magliore isn't the shotblocking machine that I was expecting.

About 2 years ago...I would have wanted Magliore. But now....I would only want to part with Harrison....and I would barely want to do that. Magliore would be an upgrade at the Center position for the Pacers....but not as much as I would want. At this point.....I would want to role the dice on Harrison and keep Foster and resign Pollard to the minimum vet salary.

I agree with your post, and wouldn't want to part with Foster either just because I think he fits so well with our team. Keep in mind that Maglorie pulled down 8.9 boards, and 11.7 points last year in 30.6 min.
Foster pulled down 9, and 7 in 26.1 min. I agree that Maglorie is a slightly better scorer, but he's not as good of a rebounder. He also did this on a really bad team. I don't see him doing quite as well for the Pacers.

Anthem
10-24-2005, 10:19 PM
Man, I'd be wary of trading Bender. I can just absolutely see him going somewhere being completely healthy and just putting up something in the range of 15 points, 7 rebs, and 2 blocks a game with starters minutes.

Which is close to what we'd get with Mags, except that he can defend centers...

Pacers#1Fan
10-24-2005, 10:24 PM
I just like what we have write now. I would wait until at least the deadline before thinking about doing anything.

BlueNGold
10-24-2005, 11:13 PM
Foster, Bender, AJ for Mag & change would be great for the Pacers. Here is why:
1) It would provide a legit, tough C, which the Pacers dearly need to get by Miami & Detroit.
2) It would allow the Pacers to offload Pollard's salary next season without searching for another C. Also, Pollard may continue to have back problems and be virtually worthless down the road.
3) How can we pay JB with ONeal, Artest and Granger in the future? JB will either turn out to be a bust or a very productive player. This trade would allow the Pacers to avoid the scary decision of resigning JB. If he is a bust, we will have been lucky to get rid of him. If he is the productive player we all thought he would be, how can we pay him? We already have an all-star PF who makes a tidy sum. Someone might offer him a 10M per year contract...and we may just lose him to free agency.
4) Foster and AJ have reached their peaks IMO. AJ's stock is clearly up. Buy low, sell high.
5) Bender and Foster's health may always be a problem. Foster seems to have a chronic problem with his hip. That is not good for someone who's forte is rebounding. Bender's health, or lack of it, is obvious. The man's knees are made of eggshells.
6) AJ will not be happy sitting on the bench behind Tins and Saras...both who may be in Indy awhile. ...and AJ is not getting any younger at this point.
7) Dumping Bender provides more time for Granger. Nough said.

indygeezer
10-24-2005, 11:55 PM
Man, I'd be wary of trading Bender. I can just absolutely see him going somewhere being completely healthy and just putting up something in the range of 15 points, 7 rebs, and 2 blocks a game with starters minutes.

Where he could go from there in the future, is a mystery.


I had the same thoughts about a stock I once bought. It was a good company and I just knew they were going to make a turn around and be a great investment and I'd kill myself if I sold them and they then made that turnaround. Today after liquidation, my 1800 shares are worth 12.5 cents TOTAL.
I'm far from giving up on JB but you cannot fall in love with a stock or a ballplayer.