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Los Angeles
10-18-2005, 09:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2197001

Pacers' Jackson calls ban on chains 'racist statement'By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana Pacers guard Stephen Jackson, contending that a league ban on chains worn over clothing is "a racist statement" from the league, wore every long, diamond-studded chain in his collection Tuesday night as a protest.

Jackson voiced no opposition to the bulk of the "business casual" demands in the NBA's new dress code, but he described the jewelry ban as "attacking young black males."

"I think it's a racist statement because a lot of the guys who are wearing chains are my age and are black," said Jackson, 27. "I wore all my jewelry today to let it be known that I'm upset with it.

"I'll wear a suit every day. I think we do need to look more professional because it is a business. A lot of guys have gotten sloppy with the way they dress. But it's one thing to [enforce a] dress code and it's another thing if you're attacking cultures, and that's what I think they're doing."

Jackson made his comments before Tuesday's home exhibition game against San Antonio, with the four chains he wore to work hanging in his locker -- one sporting his initials, two with a crucifix and a fourth depicting Jesus Christ.

A section in the new dress code listing items players are not allowed to wear on team or league business includes "chains, pendants or medallions worn over the player's clothing."

"I know a lot of guys on my team are upset and I have no problem speaking up on it," Jackson said.

Jackson, though, said he wouldn't openly defy the rule if it means he keeps "giving money back" in fines.

San Antonio's Tim Duncan, far less vocal but no less a critic of the new policy, did not play in Tuesday's game and sat on the bench wearing an untucked shirt and baggy jeans -- attire that could result in a fine if seen during a regular-season game.

A specific range of penalties has yet to be announced, but league officials have already made it clear that violators of the dress code will be fined -- as well as their teams -- with repeat violators subject to suspension.

Los Angeles
10-18-2005, 09:55 PM
And now my commentary:

I think Jackson's got a poor way of expressing the idea, but on the whole he is right. This is isn't much different from banning mullets and facial hair in NASCAR.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 09:56 PM
San Antonio's Tim Duncan, far less vocal but no less a critic of the new policy, did not play in Tuesday's game and sat on the bench wearing an untucked shirt and baggy jeans -- attire that could result in a fine if seen during a regular-season game.

See if the NBA good boy does not agree hmmmm..:(

Luckily its Duncan if it was anyone else..

Jaydawg2270
10-18-2005, 09:57 PM
Jax is right

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 09:57 PM
And now my commentary:

I think Jackson's got a poor way of expressing the idea, but on the whole he is right. This is isn't much different from banning mullets and facial hair in NASCAR.

yes LA .. that has been my contention as well...

Jermaniac
10-18-2005, 09:58 PM
Hell yeah Jack, I love it.

Arcadian
10-18-2005, 10:03 PM
I'm sure if there were any player's wearing oversized belt buckles they would be banned as well. More African-American fashions are targeted because there are more African-Americans in the NBA. In this case a ruling affecting more Blacks than Whites does not equal racism.

Jaydawg2270
10-18-2005, 10:05 PM
its real hard to disargee with stephen on this one

GO!!!!!
10-18-2005, 10:10 PM
I don't get it...

this is just saying **** because he can say ****.....

chains and bling are a sign of money not culture... how may tribes men in africa walk around with a rolex watch and a crucifix of christ that is worth 300K

Mr. Pink
10-18-2005, 10:11 PM
I don't see what's wrong with the chains and stuff.

Jack is right...They need to wear the suits and all the other requirements, but the jewelery thing is a little too much. My only complaint is that.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 10:24 PM
Here is the ESPN's posted survey... very interesting questions

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=1708&print=true






1) Does the NBA have an image problem?

2) How would you describe your level of interest in the NBA?


3) How has your interest level changed, if at all, in the last 10 years?


4) Are you in favor of the dress code implemented by the NBA for its players?


5) How important is the issue to you as a fan?



6) Do you feel NBA players generally dress less appropriately for conducting team and league business than other professional athletes?


7) Does it bother you when a player like Marcus Camby or Latrell Sprewell wears an old-school replica jersey and necklace to a postgame media conference?

8) Do you think the new dress code is an attempt to minimize the ''hip-hop'' image associated with the game's players?


9) Who should determine what players wear when engaged in team or league business?


10) Would you like to see the NFL, MLB and NHL institute similar dress codes for their players?


11) What do you wear to work or school?

Hicks
10-18-2005, 10:30 PM
It's not racist. If the hip "black" thing to do was have two specific, small earrings, they wouldn't ban those to "get at" black people. Happenstance that a lot of af.americans are the ones that like to "bling". Crying racism is cheap IMO.

Stryder
10-18-2005, 10:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2197001

Pacers' Jackson calls ban on chains 'racist statement'By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana Pacers guard Stephen Jackson, contending that a league ban on chains worn over clothing is "a racist statement" from the league, wore every long, diamond-studded chain in his collection Tuesday night as a protest.

Jackson voiced no opposition to the bulk of the "business casual" demands in the NBA's new dress code, but he described the jewelry ban as "attacking young black males."

"I think it's a racist statement because a lot of the guys who are wearing chains are my age and are black," said Jackson, 27. "I wore all my jewelry today to let it be known that I'm upset with it.

"I'll wear a suit every day. I think we do need to look more professional because it is a business. A lot of guys have gotten sloppy with the way they dress. But it's one thing to [enforce a] dress code and it's another thing if you're attacking cultures, and that's what I think they're doing."

Jackson made his comments before Tuesday's home exhibition game against San Antonio, with the four chains he wore to work hanging in his locker -- one sporting his initials, two with a crucifix and a fourth depicting Jesus Christ.

A section in the new dress code listing items players are not allowed to wear on team or league business includes "chains, pendants or medallions worn over the player's clothing."

"I know a lot of guys on my team are upset and I have no problem speaking up on it," Jackson said.

Jackson, though, said he wouldn't openly defy the rule if it means he keeps "giving money back" in fines.

San Antonio's Tim Duncan, far less vocal but no less a critic of the new policy, did not play in Tuesday's game and sat on the bench wearing an untucked shirt and baggy jeans -- attire that could result in a fine if seen during a regular-season game.

A specific range of penalties has yet to be announced, but league officials have already made it clear that violators of the dress code will be fined -- as well as their teams -- with repeat violators subject to suspension.

Stephen Jackson needs to learn what racism is. Or at least, grow up, and understand that he does not have it so bad...

The rule is not racist.

If it were racist, the rule would read that white people can wear the chains, etc., while black people cannot, or vice versa.

It's called a dress code.

I cannot wear my goofy tee shirts and jeans to work, because there is a dress code, and my employers want me to maintain a certain look, attire, and/or dress.

It's called having rules. Probably something he really has not had to live with...

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 10:40 PM
I'll chime in on this one. Though I'm not sure that there is a right answer to it.

I tend to understand what Jackson is trying to say, though I'm not sure that it is an expression of racism. I do think that David Stern is trying to tighten up the league in terms of image, and I think by making the dress code a "black and white" issue, there are going to be people who are offended by things. But he can't issue a blanket statement either, by saying the players should just "dress professionally". Then you'll have guys like AI saying that his dress IS professional.

I think Stern has been a little overzealous in his approach, and I think Jax's point will have to be one that will have to be thought out. I do think that chains and all, it is a cultural statement of sorts and I don't find there to be a problem with it.

Ragnar
10-18-2005, 10:59 PM
And now my commentary:

I think Jackson's got a poor way of expressing the idea, but on the whole he is right. This is isn't much different from banning mullets and facial hair in NASCAR.

Mullets are a redneck thing not a white thing so it would not be racist.

I am not sure about the facial hair statement. Seems to me people of all races wear facial hair. (not me mind you but lots of people)

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 11:04 PM
As usual there is more to this story then what is on the surface..

Now this question if asked in a vacuum would be

Should an employer be able to enforce a dress good
100% of everybody says yes.

A rule that enforces a dress code policy that deals with a certain type of culture's dress that is predominantly present in only one certain ethnicity
because it is the make up of 85% of the employee population and is the most visible. is that racist no not neccesarily....

Now in this case.. When the facts are the majority now this is % wise of the NBA fans are white. and that over 80% of the players are black.

David Stern then admits we are having an image problem with the NBA
hmm what should we change to appease and change our image...
you can draw whatever conclusion from there


This is what tends to pose a concern.. now I hate when the Race card is used way too much.. but when you actually take the time to think about this.. it deserves at least a second look as opposed to glossing over ..

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 11:06 PM
Mullets are a redneck thing not a white thing so it would not be racist.

I am not sure about the facial hair statement. Seems to me people of all races wear facial hair. (not me mind you but lots of people)

:laugh: Have you ever seen a black person that was a redneck with a mullet ?

Bling Bling is not a black thing it's a hip hop thing.....
See how I did that ..? I flipped it... there is always too sides to every statement

himikey
10-18-2005, 11:14 PM
Is it racist to ask millionaires to dress like millionaires instead stand ins from a 50 Cent video?

GO!!!!!
10-18-2005, 11:22 PM
i don't see the drama.. he's not banning chains at all... you can wear em... just don't make em visable during the dediated hours of the day....

Crap... I'm losing some respect for Jax as a person because this was just dumb...

it's like banning lollie adds during kid's programs and not allowing nudity on TV before 10PM.... is that discrimation too

Lets Sue Stern for not allowing us to show some chains during a press conference... I'm sure if we go on Wheel of Fortune he doesen't care what we wear.. and we can still drive our Hummers worth Ten Mil....

it's about style and empowerment not race...

circlecitysportsfan
10-18-2005, 11:25 PM
:rolleyes: Why can't these guys just keep their mouths shut? If the league was truly racist, he'd be working at a local piggly wiggly.

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 11:33 PM
CCSF,
What the heck is going on in that JB Avatar? What is he doing there?

circlecitysportsfan
10-18-2005, 11:34 PM
CCSF,
What the heck is going on in that JB Avatar? What is he doing there?


2 fingers for the 2 on his jersey, 4 fingers for the 4 on his jersey.

Jim R
10-18-2005, 11:38 PM
And now my commentary:

I think Jackson's got a poor way of expressing the idea, but on the whole he is right. This is isn't much different from banning mullets and facial hair in NASCAR.

No, that would be like banning cornrows and any hair style Scot Pollard decided to pull out.

The bottom line is the NBA is a business, and like any of the individual clubs they can impose whatever they wish. None of this has much to do with race, since the last time I checked, one of the worst dressers in the NBA is Jason Williams.

If Jackson feels strongly about this he can go play in another league. Now THAT would be taking a stand. Ranting about race only shows the league is right. They have to deal with immaturity as legislatively as possible.

Evan_The_Dude
10-18-2005, 11:47 PM
i don't see the drama.. he's not banning chains at all... you can wear em... just don't make em visable during the dediated hours of the day....

Crap... I'm losing some respect for Jax as a person because this was just dumb...

it's like banning lollie adds during kid's programs and not allowing nudity on TV before 10PM.... is that discrimation too

Lets Sue Stern for not allowing us to show some chains during a press conference... I'm sure if we go on Wheel of Fortune he doesen't care what we wear.. and we can still drive our Hummers worth Ten Mil....

it's about style and empowerment not race...

It's his opinion just like you have yours.


As much as I understand where Jax is coming from, and as much as I'd love to agree, I can't. I don't see the racism in it. I think of it like this; Would I wear a chain over my suit to a job interview? Probably not. With a corporate job where you have to wear business attire, a chain isn't allowed either. Heck, with a corporate job you can't even wear ear rings, nose rings or even have visible tattoos. A chain over a suit is tacky anyway. Wear it when you're off the clock [not traveling with the team]. But on the clock you're getting paid millions of dollars, so not wearing a chain is no big deal. When they start banning hairstyles, and tattoo's then I'll get worried.... and then Scot Pollard can cry racism... ;)

Jax has his opinion on it and I respect that, but I think he should look at the whole picture before pulling out the card.

pizza guy
10-19-2005, 12:20 AM
It was already said, but, I'll say it again.

The NBA is predominately African American. If Stern lays down a law, it's going to affect the African Americans.

The rule applies to the white guys in the league, too.

denyfizle
10-19-2005, 01:17 AM
I don't know about the culture factor of it because everybody I know who never had "bling" who "came up" to be able to buy jewellery also did the same thing regardless of race. Its more of an "economic class thing" than it is about race really. It just so happened that a lot of Black (rappers, athletes) have showcased their fascination for "bling" in the media lately. This attitude has been around since the beginning of time and I don't think banning it should neccessarily mean it targets African Americans. But I do agree with SJax to a certain degree. Business attire I can understand, but the bling well I think shouldnt be completely banned. Let a man have the privilege to atleast pin a badge of honor on his earlobe or a diamond "medal of honor" around his neck for doing what's right and coming up from the struggle and to show it to the world. Or even if it's just for no reason at all other than just wanting to wear them for styler, I don't see how jewellery can look offensive with a suit.

denyfizle
10-19-2005, 01:28 AM
And now my commentary:

I think Jackson's got a poor way of expressing the idea, but on the whole he is right. This is isn't much different from banning mullets and facial hair in NASCAR.


yes, I think most of our star players have that problem. :rolleyes: erm JO.. erm Artest.. although JO usually is very articulate, I just remembered his interview back then regarding his alleged claim or question to Stern about the age limit being a racist move and he was practically rescued by Greg Anthony during an interview from soundling like a complete ignorant racist as well. Though his intentions and thoughts were good he expressed his concerns in the wrong way and was an easy target for press scrutiny. DW should seriously consider a team spokesman :D

efx
10-19-2005, 01:55 AM
Jax is being stupid. Tons of jobs have dress codes not because the place of business is trying to put anyone down but to maintain a sense of professionalism.

It's really nothing hard to comply with.

Shut up and play.

Bball
10-19-2005, 02:33 AM
I've thought about this some and I'm not going to say someone can't still sway my opinion BUT -IF- the dress code is OK then the jewelry is fair game to be part of it IMHO.

I don't see it as racism unless someone wants to argue the whole idea of the NBA dress code is racism... which I'd still disagree with.

But that is my initial take.... I'm willing to listen.

-Bball

Cactus Jax
10-19-2005, 03:34 AM
The problem I have with Jackson saying this is that he's being a racist himself, or at least saying Chains are only for african-americans, and that they alone are affected by them. I've seen tons of non african-americans wearing "chains" that are clearly visible and they would probably be angry if they were told they couldn't wear them too.

The greater problem is with Stern as for a while it seemed he embraced the idea of being hip-hop like, and having commercials w/ hip-hop artists and what-not and now he wants to turn a 180 after 11/19.

Also not sure why players don't just wear their jerseys like they would be playing the game, unless it's some major injury. Just put the same rules for the inactive in terms of clothing as an active player and it all works fine.

317Kim
10-19-2005, 06:26 AM
San Antonio's Tim Duncan, far less vocal but no less a critic of the new policy, did not play in Tuesday's game and sat on the bench wearing an untucked shirt and baggy jeans -- attire that could result in a fine if seen during a regular-season game.

Tim looked like a dusty hobo last nite. :shrug:

Eindar
10-19-2005, 06:29 AM
It's a tough issue. I agree with Jackson, but not for the reasons he gives. Since when was jewelry sloppy or unprofessional? It's a mark of status and wealth, nothing more. There is no reason to ban the chains, if all you are looking to do is make everyone clean up their image. What Stern is doing here is banning hip hop culture from the game, and to Stern, that's what the chains represent.

Is it racist? Hell no. As was said earlier, I'm sure Jason Williams owns more bling than most in the NBA, and none of the NBA players owns as much as Eminem, I'm sure. It does effect more blacks than whites in the league, for sure, so it is skewed towards black players, but it's not "racist". Racist would be "Black players can't wear jewelry to games".

One could say that Stern is trying to "de-ghetto" his game so that it is more appealing to the white fan base. While not racist, it is a slap in the face to the players who play the game, and I disagree with not being able to wear jewelry to games.

JamesR
10-19-2005, 08:07 AM
Tim looked like a dusty hobo last nite. :shrug:

After the game last night Tim called the new code "A load of crap" and "basically retarded." He then said that he was thinking about just staying in the locker room if he's not playing.

For people who don't know, Tim is very superstitious about suit-wearing, he won't even wear a jacket or sport coat.

Evan_The_Dude
10-19-2005, 08:35 AM
Man, if Artest said it was basically retarted he would have been suspended before the game was eve over...

fwpacerfan
10-19-2005, 08:37 AM
The NBA should have had the Teams mandate a dress code - not the league. It would have been taken a little better, imo.

Wasn't this part of the new CBA? If it was then the players agreed to it.

I don't think it really that big of a deal but SJax does have a point. I think this could lead to us seeing more rappers/hip hop performers dressing in suits/business casual style. Which means the clothes I have to buy for work would go through the roof because I will suddenly be "in style" - which I never thought would happen.:laugh:

Pacers#1Fan
10-19-2005, 08:42 AM
:rolleyes:

Fool
10-19-2005, 09:00 AM
Perhaps the players should have actually read the CBA before they signed it. 16 year olds cry about wearing suits to work.

P.S. Duncan ALWAYS looks like a hobo off the court. Dude really likes to keep it casual and comfy.

RWB
10-19-2005, 09:17 AM
You knew this was coming. I guess this is the clash between SJax's hood and David Stern's suburb hood. Stay tuned to see which hood will prevail.

Jax hood.....you better agree with me mother...... or I'll pop you in the @ss.

Stern's hood....you better agree with me mister.....or I'll sue your @ss.

fwpacerfan
10-19-2005, 10:01 AM
My office doesn't allow me to wear my pants up to my nipples. That's pretty racist against my strong heritage of conservative, white accountants. But I still do my thing. Word.

That's funny!;)

OnlyPacersLeft
10-19-2005, 10:56 AM
Good god grow up Jack. Ron may be crazy but you don't see him going out saying that the league is racist. First JO now jack? WTF is wrong with these guys? Contrary to how you think the league is not out TO BRING YOU DOWN. They pay you that kind of money so you can afford those stupid chains. Now if they only paid white players that money and paid black players less then you would have cause to say that. Why is it black people are so quick to call everything racist? Geez!

Frank Slade
10-19-2005, 10:58 AM
All right so here is what I have come up with and if you missed Outside the line and ESPN this morning they are covering this story intently..

As a Disclaimer I cannot Stand David Stern he usually comes off very condescending and out of touch with the players , there is no doubt in that.
However he is a shrewd business person, and this is a business decision.
So from a bottom dollar CEO deicision sure it makes sense.. now does that make it right because it makes finanical sense .. well that's for everyone to juddge for themselves....


Here is the motive behind this David Stern know he needs to appeal not to joe fan who comes to the game regardless He has to appeal to Corporate America, and the "General Population..: No longer are the Days of Jordan, Magic and Bird.. who corporate America Loved ... He is trying to basically trying to strip down the AI type player put him in a nice suit. take the bling off and hope to God Corporate America re embraces the "new NBA Corporate look.
Like No more Timberlands which alot of Players where..
No boots of any kind

He is afraid that Corporate Sponsors cannot Identify with the Current NBA image.. sure the average kid that follow the nba looks up to guys like AI and dress like him. But that is not what the NBA cares about.. its not about the averag fan its the bottom dollar getting the Corporate Sponsor back in the fold like the NFL has so much off.

They want Corporate America, which the majority is Middle Aged White Guys to tune in and see Corporate looking styles on and off the court.. as this will be easier to accept... Bascially they need everyone to be a Grant Hill or MJ kind of look so they can much more easily sell the product that is the NBA.....
.

grace
10-19-2005, 11:04 AM
Anybody who lived through the '70s knows wearing chains isn't a black thing. I wish I could find a picture of David Brenner to illustrate my point. He gave Mr. T. a run for his money.

As much as I don't particularly like all the bling I'd give in on that point just to get the players to wear dress pants and a nice shirt.

ajbry
10-19-2005, 11:11 AM
I agree with Jack. It is absurd to regulate the accessories that players wear when not playing.

owl
10-19-2005, 11:39 AM
The race card should be saved for times when race is really an issue.
In this case it just de-sensitizes people to racism as even being an
issue ever. No matter what level of society or what business some people
always complain about a dress code. I do not like to suit up either but if
that is what I had to do for my job I would do it. After the game Jackson can
bling out to his hearts content and I say more power to him.



owl

Kstat
10-19-2005, 11:56 AM
I don't agree with the NBA's new dress policy.

However, Jax loses me at the point when he calls it a race issue. Plenty of white people wear chains too.

Just because It's not a very fair rule does not make it racist.

Frank Slade
10-19-2005, 12:07 PM
I don't agree with the NBA's new dress policy.

However, Jax loses me at the point when he calls it a race issue. Plenty of white people wear chains too.

Just because It's not a very fair rule does not make it racist.

Yikes, I agree with Ktsat:-o

I do not agree with it. does it borders on perhaps a little prejudice or just insensitive, perhaps. But to actually say racist is oneif not a few steps too far.

Jax and others can make their case but in the meantime they will have to play by Stern's rules. Stern is a guy if you try to challenge or defy him , he will just make an example of you . Better just to play nice, keep your head down and perhaps have a discussion behind closed doors.

The players will get no where if they begin to try to play this out in the media.

Diamond Dave
10-19-2005, 12:15 PM
The race card should be saved for times when race is really an issue.
In this case it just de-sensitizes people to racism as even being an
issue ever. No matter what level of society or what business some people
always complain about a dress code. I do not like to suit up either but if
that is what I had to do for my job I would do it. After the game Jackson can
bling out to his hearts content and I say more power to him.



owl

Ditto.

This is ridiculous, and I'm embarrassed that it always seems to be the Pacers who are at the forefront of this.

efx
10-19-2005, 01:12 PM
How is it not a "fair" rule? It's a place of business. They're not telling AI what he can wear outside of the arena but whenever he goes to work he'll be required to follow standards that most people out there in the workforce has to follow be they flipping burgers at mcdonalds or working at an investment bank.

Jax, TD and AI are making so godamn sick with their whining. Grow up and accept that you have to do it like the rest of us.

Frank Slade
10-19-2005, 01:21 PM
How is it not a "fair" rule? It's a place of business. They're not telling AI what he can wear outside of the arena

To Clarify actually the rule is to and from the Arena as well yes.

efx
10-19-2005, 01:30 PM
Well, that I can see an argument with. My statement was for while they were in the arena and in the spotlight so to speak.

And of course this won't fix the real image problem that this leage has had for a few years now.

RWB
10-19-2005, 01:44 PM
Here's the solution. If the NBA can get endorsements from the jean manufactures then I'm sure Mr. Stern will loosen his stance. So much so that I can see a memo from our man Dave.....Dear players, if you do not wear 501s you're fired. Thank you very much for your cooperation, sincerely Dave Levi Stern.

fwpacerfan
10-19-2005, 02:58 PM
Well, that I can see an argument with. My statement was for while they were in the arena and in the spotlight so to speak.

And of course this won't fix the real image problem that this leage has had for a few years now.


Actually I think the guys could drive to the arena naked for all Stern cares, but the minute they exit their vehicle they better be dressed in Business Casual attire.

Is it really that big of a deal to wear jeans and shirt with a collar? The jewelry issue is going a tad bit too far though.

I think this is a start to fixing the image problem. But if they in trouble with the law before they'll still be in trouble with the law even though they are dressed up. Until that crap stops the league will still have an image problem.

sweabs
10-19-2005, 03:08 PM
I haven't read the entire thread yet, but here's my opinion.

I understand their argument has to do with freedom of expression, but I find the whole thing silly. Can we just grow up? We're talking about fashion here...clothes, jewellery, etc. You would think these guys were auditioning for America's Next Top Model or something.

These guys are being paid millions of dollars to play the game they love, and they're complaining about not being able to wear their favourite necklace to the game? It just seems a little spoiled and immature in my opinion.

They're professionals. This is their job. When you have a job, sometimes your boss requires that you wear specific clothing to look professional. Stern isn't telling them that they have to wear a tux complete with top hat to every game. He's asking that they just look presentable.

Seriously, no one who really cares about the game of basketball is going to notice if you're wearing some iced-out chain to the game or not. All we care about is how you play on the court.

These guys just need to suck it up and take it like men. There are millions of people in this world with REAL problems.

sweabs
10-19-2005, 03:18 PM
Plenty of white people wear chains too.

Emmmm...I'd argue that the majority of those people are wearing them to emulate black culture.

Since86
10-19-2005, 03:22 PM
They wouldn't be able to wear their chains if they worked at a gas station, McDonalds, or any other low paying job, so why in the world is it racist when the NBA bans it?

IMHO the NBA is behind the times in this situation. I can't readily think of a REAL (an every day thing, not entertainment like acting) job/profession that doesn't have a dress code.

Los Angeles
10-19-2005, 03:32 PM
They wouldn't be able to wear their chains if they worked at a gas station, McDonalds, or any other low paying job, so why in the world is it racist when the NBA bans it?

IMHO the NBA is behind the times in this situation. I can't readily think of a REAL (an every day thing, not entertainment like acting) job/profession that doesn't have a dress code.
And there you have it.

NBA stars are like rock stars. And it's the NBA's fault for basing 3 decades of advertising on star power rather than team or NBA brand power.

The NBA created and even encouraged personalities and personal expression through urban culture to be expressed through the NBA brand.

You just don't turn off 3 decades of tradition, expression and status like a light switch.

fwpacerfan
10-19-2005, 03:39 PM
And there you have it.

NBA stars are like rock stars. And it's the NBA's fault for basing 3 decades of advertising on star power rather than team or NBA brand power.

The NBA created and even encouraged personalities and personal expression through urban culture to be expressed through the NBA brand.

You just don't turn off 3 decades of tradition, expression and status like a light switch.


You make a good argument - especially about the team thing. I don't think the NBA is trying to stop personal expression - just reign it in.

All they are asking is that when a player is coming to or going from a game or representing the league at a sponsor's event that they wear a shirt with a collar and jeans. I haven't heard one good argument on why that is asking too much.:confused:

indygeezer
10-19-2005, 03:46 PM
And there you have it.

NBA stars are like rock stars. And it's the NBA's fault for basing 3 decades of advertising on star power rather than team or NBA brand power.

The NBA created and even encouraged personalities and personal expression through urban culture to be expressed through the NBA brand.

You just don't turn off 3 decades of tradition, expression and status like a light switch.


So, a person cannot realize that their actions are wrong and change their behavior? Would you prefer the wife beater decide to only beat his wife weekly rather than daily so it doesn't appear he's acting irrationally? Is the NBA any different? If they decide they've been approaching this wrong do the "taper-off" or do they make the change and get it over with?

I understand the concern about the jewelry ban, that does seem excessive except for one aspect. It FLAUNTS the wealth these guys are earning and creates more disconnect between fan and player. As for the clothing...it's in the CBA that this can be enforced, talk to your shop steward if you have a complaint. Seriously, it is my opinion that this is just additional fall-out from the brawl. That was a wake-up call to the NBA the "fans" were going to start flocking away from the product if not "cleaned-up". Like it or not, corporate America controls the pursestrings and if CA doesn't want to be associated with a product, they won't lay out the money for naming rights, luxuray suites, and signage inside the arena. Neither will they pay the dollars for advertising on the radio and TV programs if nobody is watching/listening. One final aspect the league is probably aware of is the European outlook. Der Commish is trying to globalize the NBA and capitalize on the wide open market overseas. But the European and Asia community doesn't relate to the gansta image being portrayed by many in the NBA. They relate much better to the Shaq, Michael, Alonzo image and it is that image that needs to be put forth if the NBA hopes to continue infiltrating the rest of the world.

indygeezer
10-19-2005, 03:53 PM
Final thought


Put a Nike swoosh or an Adidas cornstalk on the breast pocket and see how fast the players get in line to represent them

fwpacerfan
10-19-2005, 04:00 PM
Can anyone find this rule in the CBA? Insidehoops.com has the cba on their website and I couldn't find the dress code mentioned - or even a provision that would allow for it. Does anyone have a different link?

Los Angeles
10-19-2005, 04:04 PM
FW - I may be wrong, but the rules are a little more specific than collared shirt and jeans. And I don't think jeans are allowed. I'll try and find the exact verbiage.

Geezer - you've made the best arguments here by far. But it's my opinion that the NBA is gaining worldwide popularity BECAUSE of globalization and marketing of American urban culture, not in spite of it.

Which reminds me, I just saw a fleet of Japanese tourists here in Chicago wearing NBA jerseys - (mostly lakers jerseys =/ and one retro barkley jersey :buddies: ) with chains.

indygeezer
10-19-2005, 04:48 PM
FW - I may be wrong, but the rules are a little more specific than collared shirt and jeans. And I don't think jeans are allowed. I'll try and find the exact verbiage.

Geezer - you've made the best arguments here by far. But it's my opinion that the NBA is gaining worldwide popularity BECAUSE of globalization and marketing of American urban culture, not in spite of it.

Which reminds me, I just saw a fleet of Japanese tourists here in Chicago wearing NBA jerseys - (mostly lakers jerseys =/ and one retro barkley jersey :buddies: ) with chains.


Wannabe's......sheesh, they're everywhere!!!

grace
10-19-2005, 09:49 PM
Emmmm...I'd argue that the majority of those people are wearing them to emulate black culture.

No, they're trying to be David Brenner. I know no one remembers him with his shirt unbuttoned to his navel and all the chains he wore, but he did. Somewhere in The Tonight Show-The Johnny Carson Years vault there's actual video of it.