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Kaufman
10-18-2005, 04:25 PM
Hey everyone. This might be slightly offtopic, but I'll try to make it Pacers relevant. Sometimes I wonder... what happened to a few people in the sports reporting world as well as Pacers. I'll name a few people, am interested to know if anyone knows what happened to these people.

Dick Versace - Where is that guy. How did he just disappear all of a sudden?
Bob Hill - Still at Fordham stinkin it up?
Kenny Williams - He was one of my favorites growing up... he could flat out jump.
Jerry Baker - as Clark Kellogg affectionately called him, Bake.
Ronnie Duncan - sportscaster on WTHR, Don Hein's backup in the early 90's.
Don Hein - speaking of Don Hein, does he still do weekend sports on WTHR?
Mark Patrick - I loved him on WISHTV sports, hated him on the radio. MPOS was annoying. I know he got let go by Fox Sports Radio, but is he still doing digital baseball?
Jim Barbour - former Purdue graduate, used to have a sports show on WIBC and did some sideline reporting during big ten games for Raycom/ESPNplus.
Damon Bailey - former Pacer, Hoosier.
Robin Miller - is he still doing some articles for ESPN.com? I don't hear him too much on the radio anymore, of course, I don't live in Indianapolis regularly anymore either.
C. Jemal Horton - former Indianapolis, Charlotte columnist who couldn't write. C. Jemal, where are you?? I just hope he's ok.
Fred Kalil - used to be the sports anchor immediately before Mark Patrick on WISHTV. I know he went to Atlanta...
Brian Hammons - is he still on the Golf Channel? Was Fox News' original sports anchor, moved on to some kind of racecar gig for a while.
Scott Hoke - Formerly Ed's backup on WRTV, then did a gig with the Pacers... Indianapolis product but never stuck...

If there are people I'm missing that others are interested in, please add them, or inquire.
And my argument on why this should stay on the Pacers page - all are people who have been associated with the Pacers from a reporting standpoint or played/coached for the P's at one point or another.

PHC Fan
10-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Jerry Baker - as Clark Kellogg affectionately called him, Bake.


The best TV play-by-play announcer that the team has ever had. Heads and shoulders better than Mel (Marv/Al) Alberts.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 04:33 PM
Robin Miller - is he still doing some articles for ESPN.com? I don't hear him too much on the radio anymore, of course, I don't live in Indianapolis regularly anymore either


He is with the IBJ

ChicagoJ
10-18-2005, 04:38 PM
No, its Bill Benner with the IBJ.

Bo Hill is not at Fordham, but they are still paying him (I think); I don't think he's resurfaced publicly since college/ recruiting isn't for him and Popovich has blacklisted him for whatever reason.

Kenny Williams, the last we checked, was playing in Israel, where's he is a bit of a local legend.

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 04:38 PM
WHY WHY WHY did they ever let shake N bake go? I loved that guy... the voice, the roots to Indiana... Didn't have to hear that stupid call "Croshere, corner pocket...!!" or "the Feisty One!!". Agh sometimes Al drives me nuts.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 04:41 PM
ohh you'r right Jay lol Robin Miller is like with the Speed Channel

indygeezer
10-18-2005, 04:51 PM
Jerry Baker...the original radio voice of the Pacers can still be heard from T2T doing High School reporting. He hated flying. HTe absolute BEST set of radio pipes you ever heard, esp for bball.

I remember him Emceeing a big bonfire/pep rally at ISU when I was a freshman there. Two years later I was married and had a kid and he was doing Pacer games.

Unclebuck
10-18-2005, 04:51 PM
Versace is still with the Grizzlies in a lesser role

Bob Hill is a alive and well as the lead assistant coach of the Seattle Supersonics.

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 04:57 PM
I don't even know who the head coach of the sonics is. I'll have to look that one up right quick.

Unclebuck
10-18-2005, 04:59 PM
I don't even know who the head coach of the sonics is. I'll have to look that one up right quick.


Bob Weiss.

I'm sensing that you aren't watching NBATV's real training camp.


For the record, I was not a fan of Jerry Baker at all. Sure he has a good voice, but all he ever did was talk about stats, and it seems like he was rarely watching the action on the floor. Either that or he had no clue as to what was going on.

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 05:02 PM
I'm home in Indy for two weeks and no... we don't have high speed internet here at the parents' home. So dialup can't cut it. Bobby Weiss. Such a disgrace of sorts that Bo Hill can't find a coaching gig. I genuinely liked that guy. He just has to be coaching a certain kind of team.

Ragnar
10-18-2005, 05:26 PM
Miller is with Speed channel and I think some ESPN.

I think Horton is still in Charlotte stinking it up.

Damon was doing kids basketball camps last I heard.

ChicagoJ
10-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Sonics Q&A: Bob Hill
Kevin Pelton, SUPERSONICS.COM | September 28, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Seattle SuperSonics assistant coach Bob Hill comes to the Sonics with more than three decades of coaching experience, including a decade on NBA sidelines. Hill, who has a career record of 257-212 as an NBA head coach, most recently was head coach at Fordham University. Hill recently sat down with SUPERSONICS.COM for a Q&A about his background and philosophy.
SUPERSONICS.COM: How long have you known Sonics Head Coach Bob Weiss?
Hill: We've known each other casually for a long time, because I was in the league for 11 years before and he's been in the league since he was like eight years old. Everybody knows Bobby Weiss and everybody likes Bobby Weiss. He's a friend of the league; he's that kind of guy.

What do you bring to the Sonics coaching staff?
I don't know. I think, after 30 years of coaching, I can bring whatever they need me to bring, to be honest with you. I've always prided myself on being a student of basketball. I've written a lot about it, I've studied it a lot and I've studied under coaches. I've always tried to keep an open mind, realizing that there's more ways to do things than one. I'm not unlike a lot of guys - there's certain things about basketball that I had success with that I certainly believe in, but if there's a better way to do it, then I've tried to be open-minded about it. I think I can bring whatever Bobby needs me to bring.

How would you describe your philosophy as a coach?
I wrote a book encouraging younger coaches to establish philosophies of the game - offense, defense, special situations, practices, the whole thing. As you move along, your philosophies change and get stronger. I think in the NBA, the teams that have a balance in their performance that is anchored with their defense are the ones that continue to play and finally win championships. I think trying to establish that balance, play both ends of the floor but anchor everything with your defense is really where I am right now. Offensively, I think it's really important to get easy baskets. I think this team in particular is a team that's built to run and is built to score points. I think it's important that we do get out there, but I think our biggest improvement has to come defensively. If we can do that, we can win a lot of games.

What have you done since coaching at Fordham?
I took the two years and I just immersed myself in basketball. We had a Big Man & Guard Camp at the United States Basketball Academy in Oregon, so I wrote the curriculum for that. We've run that two summers. Then I've been to China four times doing tours with teams and clinics. I did clinics in the States. I did a lot of training players, like Desmond Mason, who was here before. Desmond is a client of Roger Montgomery, who is in San Antonio, so for two years I trained all of his clients - Desmond, Joey and Stevie Graham this year, Winsome Frazier, Chris Owens and a bunch of them and then taught four or five other guys. So actually, from the end of the college season all the way through the summer, I was in the gym every day. I developed and kind of put finishing touches on a player skills development program and all the drills and philosophies behind that. I watched games every night and then read a lot of books. I read books to pick up ideas on managing people and motivating people. The motivation part, the stories that are in books and the ideas about managing people, even in business books, whatever book I could get my hands on. I read a lot. I did the whole gamut.

How did you get involved with the USBA?
They called me after I left San Antonio. They called and asked if I would come up and get involved. At that time, they were having an international tryout camp. There is a level of player in this country that would blow your mind. They're really good. They're just not, for some reason, quite good enough to play in the NBA. A lot of them go overseas today. The basketball community of the world's in pretty good shape. These teams in these other countries are good now, partly because of Americans who have gone over and, either as a player or a coach, gotten involved in the maturation process of some of these countries. At that time, it was Europeans and Asians and everybody was there to watch. So I went up there. When you go up there, if you like basketball, you fall in love with the place. It's 45 minutes outside of Eugene along the McKenzie River in this big huge valley with all these enormous trees. It's like heaven up there. The weather is usually beautiful, the air is so clean and the food there is great. All there is to do is eat, sleep and basketball. There is a golf course about a half-mile away, but I haven't played that much golf up there. It's a place I look forward to going to. You're in the gym six or seven hours a day, you go have dinner, then you sit in your lodge and talk basketball until you fall asleep. Then you get up and you get up and do it all over again. For people who love basketball, it's a heck of a place.

How has the NBA changed since you were last on the sidelines?
Players change leagues. I think the players have changed the league quite a bit since we started drafting younger players, so now the development of those players becomes a priority. The league is much quicker and faster than it was before, probably not quite as skilled in terms of passing and shooting. I think we've often - not so much in the NBA - lost that in-between game. They either want to shoot 3s or go in and finish. When you find a player that can shoot 3s and then hit long twos and mid-range twos and shoot a floater and a baby hook and a stepback, you've got yourself a player, at least offensively - there's not a lot of those. So I think, although it's probably in some respects a little more athletic and fun, we're still in that development stage. But some of those guys who came in from high school or one year of college are awfully good, and I think the NBA's going to turn the corner soon in terms of being better than it's ever been in terms of its players and the product we can put on the floor when these guys get some experience under their belt. When LeBron (James) gets a couple more years under his belt … some of these guys are really, really good. (Vladimir) Radmanovic is a good example. If he continues to get better, how much fun he'd be to watch night in and night out. Rashard (Lewis) is really good. Luke (Ridnour), after coming out early. There's a lot of them. Every team has a number of them. I think that's the biggest change.

Who would you call the best coach you've worked with during your career?
I've been pretty lucky. Tim Grgurich, who was here for a while - I worked with him early in my career. Then I was with Ted Owens, then I was with Larry Brown, then I was with Hubie Brown. I think Larry Brown stands out. Larry Brown is a basketball coach through and through, and that is the most important thing in his life. He doesn't allow other things to get involved too much with his basketball. He talks it, he eats it, he sleeps it. I learned so much from him. What I learned from him was really simple, which is usually the case. He keeps things simple, and he teaches teams to be a team - just what they're supposed to be. He demands it. I remember a lot. He's clearly the best one I ever worked with.

++++++++++

I'm really glad for that. Bo is one of my all-time favorite coaches. He's a gym-rat/ coachaholic and he's a "coach's coach". I still believe DW "pulled the plug" too soon, by not re-signing him when his contract expired. It wasn't the coaching that held the early-1990's Pacers back, as Bo Hill later proved in San Antonio.

Here's hoping I can get to Indy for the Pacers/ Sonics game this season...

indygeezer
10-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Sonics Q&A: Bob Hill
Kevin Pelton, SUPERSONICS.COM | September 28, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Seattle SuperSonics assistant coach Bob Hill comes to the Sonics with more than three decades of coaching experience, including a decade on NBA sidelines. Hill, who has a career record of 257-212 as an NBA head coach, most recently was head coach at Fordham University. Hill recently sat down with SUPERSONICS.COM for a Q&A about his background and philosophy.
SUPERSONICS.COM: How long have you known Sonics Head Coach Bob Weiss?
Hill: We've known each other casually for a long time, because I was in the league for 11 years before and he's been in the league since he was like eight years old. Everybody knows Bobby Weiss and everybody likes Bobby Weiss. He's a friend of the league; he's that kind of guy.

What do you bring to the Sonics coaching staff?
I don't know. I think, after 30 years of coaching, I can bring whatever they need me to bring, to be honest with you. I've always prided myself on being a student of basketball. I've written a lot about it, I've studied it a lot and I've studied under coaches. I've always tried to keep an open mind, realizing that there's more ways to do things than one. I'm not unlike a lot of guys - there's certain things about basketball that I had success with that I certainly believe in, but if there's a better way to do it, then I've tried to be open-minded about it. I think I can bring whatever Bobby needs me to bring.

How would you describe your philosophy as a coach?
I wrote a book encouraging younger coaches to establish philosophies of the game - offense, defense, special situations, practices, the whole thing. As you move along, your philosophies change and get stronger. I think in the NBA, the teams that have a balance in their performance that is anchored with their defense are the ones that continue to play and finally win championships. I think trying to establish that balance, play both ends of the floor but anchor everything with your defense is really where I am right now. Offensively, I think it's really important to get easy baskets. I think this team in particular is a team that's built to run and is built to score points. I think it's important that we do get out there, but I think our biggest improvement has to come defensively. If we can do that, we can win a lot of games.

What have you done since coaching at Fordham?
I took the two years and I just immersed myself in basketball. We had a Big Man & Guard Camp at the United States Basketball Academy in Oregon, so I wrote the curriculum for that. We've run that two summers. Then I've been to China four times doing tours with teams and clinics. I did clinics in the States. I did a lot of training players, like Desmond Mason, who was here before. Desmond is a client of Roger Montgomery, who is in San Antonio, so for two years I trained all of his clients - Desmond, Joey and Stevie Graham this year, Winsome Frazier, Chris Owens and a bunch of them and then taught four or five other guys. So actually, from the end of the college season all the way through the summer, I was in the gym every day. I developed and kind of put finishing touches on a player skills development program and all the drills and philosophies behind that. I watched games every night and then read a lot of books. I read books to pick up ideas on managing people and motivating people. The motivation part, the stories that are in books and the ideas about managing people, even in business books, whatever book I could get my hands on. I read a lot. I did the whole gamut.

How did you get involved with the USBA?
They called me after I left San Antonio. They called and asked if I would come up and get involved. At that time, they were having an international tryout camp. There is a level of player in this country that would blow your mind. They're really good. They're just not, for some reason, quite good enough to play in the NBA. A lot of them go overseas today. The basketball community of the world's in pretty good shape. These teams in these other countries are good now, partly because of Americans who have gone over and, either as a player or a coach, gotten involved in the maturation process of some of these countries. At that time, it was Europeans and Asians and everybody was there to watch. So I went up there. When you go up there, if you like basketball, you fall in love with the place. It's 45 minutes outside of Eugene along the McKenzie River in this big huge valley with all these enormous trees. It's like heaven up there. The weather is usually beautiful, the air is so clean and the food there is great. All there is to do is eat, sleep and basketball. There is a golf course about a half-mile away, but I haven't played that much golf up there. It's a place I look forward to going to. You're in the gym six or seven hours a day, you go have dinner, then you sit in your lodge and talk basketball until you fall asleep. Then you get up and you get up and do it all over again. For people who love basketball, it's a heck of a place.

How has the NBA changed since you were last on the sidelines?
Players change leagues. I think the players have changed the league quite a bit since we started drafting younger players, so now the development of those players becomes a priority. The league is much quicker and faster than it was before, probably not quite as skilled in terms of passing and shooting. I think we've often - not so much in the NBA - lost that in-between game. They either want to shoot 3s or go in and finish. When you find a player that can shoot 3s and then hit long twos and mid-range twos and shoot a floater and a baby hook and a stepback, you've got yourself a player, at least offensively - there's not a lot of those. So I think, although it's probably in some respects a little more athletic and fun, we're still in that development stage. But some of those guys who came in from high school or one year of college are awfully good, and I think the NBA's going to turn the corner soon in terms of being better than it's ever been in terms of its players and the product we can put on the floor when these guys get some experience under their belt. When LeBron (James) gets a couple more years under his belt some of these guys are really, really good. (Vladimir) Radmanovic is a good example. If he continues to get better, how much fun he'd be to watch night in and night out. Rashard (Lewis) is really good. Luke (Ridnour), after coming out early. There's a lot of them. Every team has a number of them. I think that's the biggest change.

Who would you call the best coach you've worked with during your career?
I've been pretty lucky. Tim Grgurich, who was here for a while - I worked with him early in my career. Then I was with Ted Owens, then I was with Larry Brown, then I was with Hubie Brown. I think Larry Brown stands out. Larry Brown is a basketball coach through and through, and that is the most important thing in his life. He doesn't allow other things to get involved too much with his basketball. He talks it, he eats it, he sleeps it. I learned so much from him. What I learned from him was really simple, which is usually the case. He keeps things simple, and he teaches teams to be a team - just what they're supposed to be. He demands it. I remember a lot. He's clearly the best one I ever worked with.

++++++++++

I'm really glad for that. Bo is one of my all-time favorite coaches. He's a gym-rat/ coachaholic and he's a "coach's coach". I still believe DW "pulled the plug" too soon, by not re-signing him when his contract expired. It wasn't the coaching that held the early-1990's Pacers back, as Bo Hill later proved in San Antonio.

Here's hoping I can get to Indy for the Pacers/ Sonics game this season...


I remember a few years after he left there was newpaper talk that he fostered an atmosphere of distrust between the players. He had suck-ups that he favored and played them off one against the other.
Anybody else remember that story(rumor)?

ChicagoJ
10-18-2005, 05:36 PM
For the record, I was not a fan of Jerry Baker at all. Sure he has a good voice, but all he ever did was talk about stats, and it seems like he was rarely watching the action on the floor. Either that or he had no clue as to what was going on.

From what I understand, Jerry Baker the TV guy (especially the mid-to-late 1990s version) was far cry from Jerry Baker the 1970s radio guy. I think that the only version of Baker that many of us know was vastly inferior to the guy that others remember.

For example, Jay's_Dad@Section204 will debate me until I'm blue in the face when I say something like, "Jerry Baker was awful."

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 05:40 PM
Jerry Baker reminds me of an older Damon Bailey........
I think Btown nailed it.. Baker= older Damon Bailey :nod:

ChicagoJ
10-18-2005, 05:40 PM
I remember a few years after he left there was newpaper talk that he fostered an atmosphere of distrust between the players. He had suck-ups that he favored and played them off one against the other.
Anybody else remember that story(rumor)?

That team, especially the version that featured Pooh Richardson, was doomed to be a chemistry failure.

I've got Bo's book, and he talks somewhat candidly of the Pooh situation, and even mentions how he learned from that fiasco when dealing with some of the strong personalities he had to lead in San Antonio. Of course, Bo's only alternative (with Micheal Williams gone) was an aging Vern Fleming. At least Brownie, the next season, had Haywoode Workman as an alternative.

Remember, a year after Bo was gone, Pooh's teammates still voted him a 1/3 share of his playoff money, which is the only time I can think of that ever happening.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 05:42 PM
*random*

Somewhere. I have the Newspaper cut out of the 93-94 Pacers
a very special year of course.

Bo out, Larry in So I was about 14 at the time. Had it taped to my wall.. I still can picture each one of those guys..including the old equipment guy :laugh:

indygeezer
10-18-2005, 05:46 PM
That team, especially the version that featured Pooh Richardson, was doomed to be a chemistry failure.

I've got Bo's book, and he talks somewhat candidly of the Pooh situation, and even mentions how he learned from that fiasco when dealing with some of the strong personalities he had to lead in San Antonio. Of course, Bo's only alternative (with Micheal Williams gone) was an aging Vern Fleming. At least Brownie, the next season, had Haywoode Workman as an alternative.

Remember, a year after Bo was gone, Pooh's teammates still voted him a 1/3 share of his playoff money, which is the only time I can think of that ever happening.



Good memory Jay, I'd forgotten that. And Baker the radio guy was FAR superior to his TV gig. I think he was intimidated by TV and prefered the radio (Strictly my opinion tho).

317Kim
10-18-2005, 06:07 PM
The best TV play-by-play announcer that the team has ever had. Heads and shoulders better than Mel (Marv/Al) Alberts.

:D NICE AVATAR!!!! :D

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 06:30 PM
Anyone, who was the voice of the Pacers before Mark Boyle? And maybe Bake should have been considered for that position? Not that I have anything against Mark, he's the best, but just thinking out loud, more than anything.

Steve
10-18-2005, 08:55 PM
Scott Hoke is the local morning news guy on WFYI radio, the Indianapolis NPR station. He does a good job.

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 10:46 PM
Man Scotty Hoke has really slid out of the market in general in the past 15 years...

Unclebuck
10-18-2005, 11:08 PM
I'm really glad for that. Bo is one of my all-time favorite coaches. He's a gym-rat/ coachaholic and he's a "coach's coach". I still believe DW "pulled the plug" too soon, by not re-signing him when his contract expired. It wasn't the coaching that held the early-1990's Pacers back, as Bo Hill later proved in San Antonio.

...


Jay I'm surpised you forgot this. Firing Bob Hill was the Simon's decision. If you remember DW job was hanging by a thread, as the Simons wanted Pitino to be GM and coach, but DW saved his job by being able to hire Larry brown.

Frank Slade
10-18-2005, 11:09 PM
Jay I'm surpised you forgot this. Firing Bob Hill was the Simon's decision. If you remember DW job was hanging by a thread, as the Simons wanted Pitino to be GM and coach, but DW saved his job by being able to hire Larry brown.


hmm I never knew that... good nugget of info...

Unclebuck
10-18-2005, 11:11 PM
Anyone, who was the voice of the Pacers before Mark Boyle? And maybe Bake should have been considered for that position? Not that I have anything against Mark, he's the best, but just thinking out loud, more than anything.


Between the Bob Lamey years and the Mark Boyle years there were 5 different play-by-play guys who only lasted a year. In fact actually one guy only lasted a few weeks, he was let go before the season even started - Ted Davis.

Let me see if I can name some of these guys. I forget the order.
Greg Lucas - he was good
Mike Inglis - he was horrible
Greg Pappa - he was OK.

I'm drawing a blank on the other two guys

Kaufman
10-18-2005, 11:29 PM
I didn't know that Bob Lamey did Pacers games??? Wow.

Unclebuck
10-19-2005, 12:12 AM
I need to clarify something. To say DW saved his job because he hired Brown is not entirely accurate. DW saved his job and then DW convinced the Simons that hiring Brown was the right decision.

But the Simons wanted Bob Hill out and DW's job was in real jeopardy

Sorry

Kaufman
10-19-2005, 12:59 AM
I don't remember Donnie ever really being in jeopardy. Of course I might just not remember, but why would he have been in jeopardy? We were just starting to turn things around, yes fine we lost in the first round a few years in a row, but heck, we got to the first round a few years in a row. That after years and years of drought. The only thing I didn't care much for was trading Chuck but we had a few solid drafts, with Dale and Kenny, Rik was just starting to become a major contributor.

ChicagoJ
10-19-2005, 01:20 AM
No, UB was right, the Simons were really high on Pittino, and they had talked directly to Larry Bird without DW's involvement.

I had forgotten that - I was thinking of DW's press conference in which he made the announcement that Bo wasn't returning. And it was probably the most wishy-washy DW ever was about letting a coach go; you could tell he wasn't 100% sold on the idea. They went into the offseason with a > 50% chance of resigning Bo, and ended up with Brownie.

Let's be honest, Bo had taken that team as far as it was ready to go. Coaching wasn't the problem. Although Brownie was a clear upgrade, that team also had a major roster upgrade that summer (AD, Byron, Workman and Derrick made that team much, much tougher - mentally and physically)

Kaufman
10-19-2005, 03:39 AM
Well some of those upgrades are products of Brown, to be honest now. Schrempf wasn't really a "Brown" guy, remember he asked to be traded in the offseason so that his family could settle down somewhere? And then we went and traded him somewhere towards the end of preseason.

Haywoody, I don't remember when he joined.

AD did join that year.

Byron joined in the middle of the season. Another Brown suggestion, as I remember it. I think he got waived somewhere in the middle of the season by the Lake Show and we signed him thereafter.

ChicagoJ
10-19-2005, 09:44 AM
Workman joined right before training camp; the Lakers elected not to re-sign Byron because they thought he was in decline. We couldn't reach a contract agreement with him until December, in part because Brownie's goal was to trade with Dallas for Derek Harper (who eventually went to the Knicks).

DW, Bo Hill, and Brownie all know that Bo had "maxxed out" that team. Bo's just a coach, he's never claimed (to my knowledge) to have any interest in personnel decisions. He just takes a roster, figures out how to max it out and adjusts to it, and then executes the plan. It took a lot of roster changes, and yes, many of those were suggested by Brownie, to get that team to be better than 0.500.

I'm just trying to dispell the notion that Bo Hill was a "stinker" of a coach, because that's just not true, at the professional level. Recruiting, and especially recruiting at Fordham, was just not his thing.

And its quite a stretch to imply that the only difference between the 1993 and 1994 teams was the coach. Matter of fact, I'm not sure Brownie could've taken the roster Bo Hill had in 91/92 or 92/93 and even made the playoffs. Brownie is not the type of coach that can just take a roster, adapt to it, and make it successful. He's a one-trick pony. He's pretty good at that one trick, and he finally got his championship, but he's not very versatile at all.

Gyron
10-19-2005, 09:55 AM
Mark Patrick used to do a lot with the bob and tom show too didn't he?

Where did he end up?

Edit: I just googled him, it appears he's doing some baseball work(some kind of show) on XM Satiellite Radio.

Unclebuck
10-19-2005, 10:07 AM
but why would he have been in jeopardy? We were just starting to turn things around, yes fine we lost in the first round a few years in a row, but heck, we got to the first round a few years in a row. That after years and years of drought.


Sure looking back now and knowing what we know now sure it is easy to overlook what was going on. Almost everyone thought the Pacers were stuck in the very worst place to be stuck in. The middle. Just good enough to make the playoffs (thereby never getting a lotttery pick), but never good enough to advance.

There was a lot of talk about Brown coming in and forcing wholesale personnel changes (DW and LB admitted that was their plan) They didn't even believe the team was on the verge of anything.

At the begginning of that 1993-1994 season the Ppacers had a starting point guard who the players did not like, and Brown did not trust. Reggie had never won a playoff series, Smits was considered a bust, soemone who was non-competitive. They started the season 17-24, and things were very rocky.

Kaufman
10-19-2005, 10:32 AM
One question - what exactly was it with Pooh that wasn't liked? I remember Micheal Williams, he was known to be a stats guy, he didn't care as long as he got his assists, or whatever the stat was that he happened to be gunning for. And so we traded him along with Chuck to the wolves for Pooh bear and Sam Mitchell with some change here and there. I know there was the thought that there weren't enough balls to go around for Chuck, Det and Reggie but why did the Pacers want Pooh? I'm sure Reggie must have had some insight into Pooh having played a year or so with him at UCLA. So why exactly didn't the Pooh experiment work out? I personally didn't care much for the guy either, but I thought it was because he wasn't that good.

Unclebuck
10-19-2005, 10:39 AM
Pooh just wasn't very good that is the first thing. But most of all his toughness both mentally and physically was a real concern and Brown spotted that right away, and his teammates did too.

My source for all this was a book written by Conrad Brunner, I still have it, I'll dig it out tonight if you want me too. He gave an excellent behind the scenes look at that season.

ChicagoJ
10-19-2005, 11:08 AM
According to Bo Hill, Pooh was basically a lazy, selfish, disruptive @$$ behind the scenes. I can dig out the reference from Bo's book, but I also believe that Conrad's book points out that the team had already lost all confidence in Pooh before Brown arrived. There's no way Brown can get credit for spotting that.

Bo doesn't name Pooh by name, by the way. But based on everything esle we know about that team, and the way he describes the players' complaints about the unnamed player as presented to him by Vern Fleming, its obvious. Bo uses that case in his book as a teaching example for why a coach really needs to keep a pulse on individual team members' priorities. Given the current state of the Pacers, we can only assume that Rick probably spends a significant amount of his coaching time just coaxing everybody to be on-the-same-page.

I liked Micheal Williams, but he was a "stat" guy. He was a below-average defender who happened to gamble a lot and lead the league in steals. He also single-handedly forced a large number or Rik Smits fouls when the gamble didn't pay off and his man was marching unmolested to the rim.

That's the primary reason why I refuse to look at either defensive stat, steals or blocks, when I evaluate a player's defensive abilities.

NPFII
10-19-2005, 12:36 PM
Kenny Williams - He was one of my favorites growing up... he could flat out jump.


I already updated in a previous thread about him, but here it is again, even more updated:

Kenny Williams (aka "The Wizard") is living in Israel, and still playing basketball. Yesterday he signed a contract with Maccabi Givat Shmuel of the Israeli League. Last year he played with Hapoel Tel Aviv, and averaged around 13 ppg, and 8 rpg. He can still play!
He has a great touch from 3-pt land, and is quite tall in Israeli league standards, so he plays PF/C. His leap is practically gone, though (understandable at around 40 years old)...

http://www.eurobasket.com/ISRplayer.asp?PlayerID=973

RWB
10-19-2005, 01:01 PM
Whatever happened to that Dick Vitale guy? :D Anybody remember when DickieV use to be the color guy sometimes on WB4?

Peck
10-19-2005, 01:23 PM
According to Bo Hill, Pooh was basically a lazy, selfish, disruptive @$$ behind the scenes. I can dig out the reference from Bo's book, but I also believe that Conrad's book points out that the team had already lost all confidence in Pooh before Brown arrived. There's no way Brown can get credit for spotting that.

Bo doesn't name Pooh by name, by the way. But based on everything esle we know about that team, and the way he describes the players' complaints about the unnamed player as presented to him by Vern Fleming, its obvious. Bo uses that case in his book as a teaching example for why a coach really needs to keep a pulse on individual team members' priorities. Given the current state of the Pacers, we can only assume that Rick probably spends a significant amount of his coaching time just coaxing everybody to be on-the-same-page.

I liked Micheal Williams, but he was a "stat" guy. He was a below-average defender who happened to gamble a lot and lead the league in steals. He also single-handedly forced a large number or Rik Smits fouls when the gamble didn't pay off and his man was marching unmolested to the rim.

That's the primary reason why I refuse to look at either defensive stat, steals or blocks, when I evaluate a player's defensive abilities.


Wow, your guy's version of the story is a lot differant than the way I remember it.

Bob Hill used Pooh Richardson to gain information about other players & in essance made him his snitch. In particular Pooh informed on several players who were out late at night partying the night before a game.

Bob backdoored Pooh by telling the players that Pooh is the one who told on them, thus creating a huge rift between the players & Pooh.

Now he may not have been popular for other reasons as well, but this was the # 1 reason. The players couldn't trust him & Bo could no longer use him so he became a parriah to both sides.

RWB
10-19-2005, 01:35 PM
Thought I might add a lifes lesson to this interesting thread since Mr. Kaufman has included announcers as well.

Back when Dr. Jack Ramsey was the PAcers coach he had a planned engagement to meet with a group of college coaches to discuss strategy, etc. The local media (this was in Terre Haute) were all hanging out in the hallways in an attempt to catch Ramsey for an exclusive interview. So here you had the local paper, CBS (Mike King Voice of the 500), Jason Pensky (NBC) and I can't remember the guys name with ABC all waiting. I've been assigned to assist Ramsey upon his arrival and already know he is running behind schedule. I understand these guys work with a deadline hanging over their heads and the pressure to be #1 in their area. But for some reason Mike King was just being a real jerk and acting like a spoiled brat. ABC and the paper guy got tired of waiting and left. At this point Mike King really gets into a rant talking about how unprofessional it is to be late, who does this guy think he is, and becoming more beligerant. During this time Pensky with NBC kind of shrugs his shoulders as if waiting comes with the territory and rolls his eyes about King being a moron.

I get the call, Ramsey is pulling in and should be here shortly I say. Mike King immediately runs out the exit to get that exclusive interview. He's going to beat the competition, or at least he thought.

Me "Mr. Pensky, I truely appreciate your patience in all this, I'm just here for his protection and to get him to the correct lecture hall. Would you follow me? I'm afraid Mr. King just went out the wrong exit, Jack Ramsey will be entering a different way. If you follow me I bet you can get that exclusive".

Moral to the story. Don't be a jerk, you never know who can help you out. :)

Kaufman
10-19-2005, 02:28 PM
Wow Kenny has aged. Expectedly so though... They even mention that he's become a 3 point shooter... Whoa.

Pooh... now that I search my brain I do remember the snitch story. He was taddling on the guys who were out too late. I bet Mark Boyle could offer some insight, save that he doesn't get in trouble for going to far into it.

RWB, thanks for the insight. Always neat to know that little stuff.