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View Full Version : Hey, rcarey, check it...



Harmonica
10-15-2005, 12:56 AM
I was researching how I might buy the photographic print of my avatar and noticed that the guy who took the picture of Coltrane in your avatar is the same guy who took the picture of Johnny Cash in mine:

http://www.jimmarshallvault.com/Catalog.aspx?TargetedVaultAll=1&TargetedVault=All&GoToPage=1

sweabs
10-15-2005, 01:04 PM
Thanks for the link - the guy has some great photographs.

The prices are obviously steep, but what exactly do you get for your money? I love the colour shot of Coltrane, along with the picture of Monk.

P.S. - the picture of Miles in the boxing ring is a little provocative...and I have enough Miles posters in my room.

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the link - the guy has some great photographs.

The prices are obviously steep, but what exactly do you get for your money? I love the colour shot of Coltrane, along with the picture of Monk.

P.S. - the picture of Miles in the boxing ring is a little provocative...and I have enough Miles posters in my room.

I think you get a photographic print - probably from the original negative. The price varies on the size.

And yeah, I love the color shots of Monk and Miles. Coincidently, I happen to be listening to Kind of Blue as I write this. Greatest recording of the 20th century? If not, it's certainly close.

sweabs
10-15-2005, 01:33 PM
I think you get a photographic print - probably from the original negative. The price varies on the size.

And yeah, I love the color shots of Monk and Miles. Coincidently, I happen to be listening to Kind of Blue as I write this. Greatest recording of the 20th century? If not, it's certainly close.

Thanks for that link - I'm going to look into getting either one of those colour shots.

As for Kind of Blue, without doubt, it is one of the most important/influential albums of the 20th century. I never get bored of listening to that album; I always seem to hear something new each time I listen.

I can't even tell you how many times I've put on the record, cranked it, pulled out the trombone, and jammed to So What with Miles, Cannonball, Coltrane, Bill Evans and the boys.

Seriously, that is a STACKED combo.

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 01:45 PM
As for Kind of Blue, without doubt, it is one of the most important/influential albums of the 20th century. I never get bored of listening to that album; I always seem to hear something new each time I listen.

I can't even tell you how many times I've put on the record, cranked it, pulled out the trombone, and jammed to So What with Miles, Cannonball, Coltrane, Bill Evans and the boys.

I love that first cymbal crash in So What. Timeless.

sweabs
10-15-2005, 02:00 PM
I love that first cymbal crash in So What. Timeless.

Yep.

This is written on the back of my reissued version:

"If you're going to heaven, might as well go first-class all the way".

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 02:22 PM
Yep.

This is written on the back of my reissued version:

"If you're going to heaven, might as well go first-class all the way".

You'll love this:

Quincy Jones once said, "I play Kind of Blue every day—it's my orange juice."

sweabs
10-15-2005, 04:47 PM
You'll love this:

Quincy Jones once said, "I play Kind of Blue every day—it's my orange juice."

That's a great quote! I have never heard it before, but makes absolute sense.

My jazz teacher in highschool always used to encourage us to listen, listen, listen. It's the only way you can improve your compositions and improvisational skills. I have bought so many JJ Johnson albums over the years that I can literally whistle every single damn note for every solo on numerous albums.

Once you have that many licks stuck in your head, they're just unconsciously released from your instrument during improv.

I love that quote; I personally have an album that has become my "orange juice" as well.

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 09:32 PM
I love that quote; I personally have an album that has become my "orange juice" as well.

And what album might that be?

sweabs
10-16-2005, 12:19 AM
And what album might that be?

JJ Inc. - JJ Johnson Sextet

JJ Johnson was the first jazz artist I caught on to, and this album just stood out among the others that I've heard. There are many things about it that make it number 1 on my list: the tone, the chemistry, and the articulation/syncopation to name a few. I'm a little biased however, being a trombonist, and JJ being the most influential musician for myself.

You must have a favourite jazz album, or album in whatever genre that you listen to religiously? Would Kind of Blue be your favourite in the jazz category?

Harmonica
10-16-2005, 12:45 AM
JJ Inc. - JJ Johnson Sextet

JJ Johnson was the first jazz artist I caught on to, and this album just stood out among the others that I've heard. There are many things about it that make it number 1 on my list: the tone, the chemistry, and the articulation/syncopation to name a few. I'm a little biased however, being a trombonist, and JJ being the most influential musician for myself.

You must have a favourite jazz album, or album in whatever genre that you listen to religiously? Would Kind of Blue be your favourite in the jazz category?
Kind of Blue would be one of several in jazz, although it was the album that began my exploration into it. In 1996 I was in a Tower Records and heard this fantastic music playing. I went up to the clerk and asked him what it was and he told me it was Kind of Blue. Well, that was it for me. I own probably over a 100 jazz recordings now. So yeah, it was a seminal album for me. I probably listen to it about once a month and have given it as a gift to a lot of friends. It's just so evocative. I'll have to check out J.J. Inc.

sweabs
10-16-2005, 12:47 AM
Kind of Blue would be one of several in jazz, although it was the album that began my exploration into it. In 1996 I was in a Tower Records and heard this fantastic music playing. I went up to the clerk and asked him what it was and he told me it was Kind of Blue. Well, that was it for me. I own probably over a 100 jazz recordings now. So yeah, it was a seminal album for me. I probably listen to it about once a month and have given it as a gift to a lot of friends. It's just so evocative. I'll have to check out J.J. Inc.

Please do. Have you listened to any JJ Johnson before?

Harmonica
10-16-2005, 02:12 PM
Oh yeah?!??

I play the saxamaphone!

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone came along and peed in the pool.

Harmonica
10-16-2005, 02:16 PM
Please do. Have you listened to any JJ Johnson before?

I haven't. But I went and checked out J.J. Inc. on iTunes. Very difficult to get a thirty-second reading on a jazz song, but it sounded very reminiscent of early-60s Blue Note recordings. Not that that's a bad thing, in fact it's nice to hear the reverence to that great era in jazz, but would it really add anything to my collection?

sweabs
10-16-2005, 06:47 PM
I haven't. But I went and checked out J.J. Inc. on iTunes. Very difficult to get a thirty-second reading on a jazz song, but it sounded very reminiscent of early-60s Blue Note recordings. Not that that's a bad thing, in fact it's nice to hear the reverence to that great era in jazz, but would it really add anything to my collection?

Definitely a blue note recording of sorts...but the true value of the album comes from JJ himself on the trombone, and the fact that almost all of the songs are compositions by JJ himself.

Bebop on the trombone was thought to be impossible by a lot of musicians at the time, but JJ was one of the first to introduce it as a solo instrument along with some other notables (Frank Rosolino, et al). In JJ Inc. the trombone has a dominant role throughout the album, and JJ displays all of its capabilities. At times you will think he is playing on a valve trombone because of his articulation and ability to run up and down pentatonic scales as if he were Coltrane. On the other hand, in some songs, you would swear that the sound is digitally edited because his tone is just that pure...it's unbelievable.

This album is not going to add any different genre/style of jazz to your collection, as you've already observed - it's an early 60s blue-note recording (probably my favourite decade for jazz...). However, what this album will give you is a new appreciation for the trombone as a solo instrument. Not only do you get to hear the amazing talents of JJ through his horn, but also through his compositions (if you're a Horace Silver fan, you will definitely like some of the songs...JJ was heavily influenced by Horace). I'm going to assume that you don't have any prior JJ recordings in your house, and here's the thing: I'm willing to bet you have some Charlie Parker for example. I will say this: JJ Johnson is to the trombone, what Charlie Parker is to the sax. He is that important.

I should have mentioned this earlier - but I'd be glad to hook you up with the songs which I've recorded on my computer. Just let me know how you'd want to send/receive.

Harmonica
10-16-2005, 11:10 PM
I have a couple of Horace Silver recordings, but I can't really say I'm a fan. Same goes for Parker. I know that's blasphemes, but it all starts with Miles (time period-wise) for me. Like you, I just don't think it gets better than the late-50s/early-to-mid 60s for jazz. I really like how Kind of Blue took jazz into a more modal realm, although I love Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives & Sevens. That has to be in my top 10 jazz recordings.

Yeah, that'd be great if you could send me J.J. Inc.. I'll PM you with my mailing info. Thanks.

SoupIsGood
10-16-2005, 11:18 PM
Wow, whenever Rcarey posts Harmonica isn't far behind. :innocent:

Is this what they call mangy mutt love

sweabs
10-16-2005, 11:44 PM
I have a couple of Horace Silver recordings, but I can't really say I'm a fan. Same goes for Parker. I know that's blasphemes, but it all starts with Miles (time period-wise) for me. Like you, I just don't think it gets better than the late-50s/early-to-mid 60s for jazz. I really like how Kind of Blue took jazz into a more modal realm, although I love Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives & Sevens. That has to be in my top 10 jazz recordings.

Yeah, that'd be great if you could send me J.J. Inc.. I'll PM you with my mailing info. Thanks.

No problem - I think everyone should listen to JJ at least once. Like I said before, he's just that important.

kerosene
10-17-2005, 04:09 AM
I'm currently looking for a good pic of Albert Ayler to use. The Sonny Rollins w/ the mohawk is kind of creeping me out these days although you don't see all that many pics of him with the 'hawk on display.

I've been somewhat tempted to use the one of his Ayler's brother Donald from the inside the Love Cry booklet where (in the words of Byron Coley) "...it must be noted that the booklet features a most incredible photo of Donald Ayler, holding his trumpet and looking at it as though an alien had just burst through the studio wall and placed an extraterrestrial turd in his hands. It'd make a great t-shirt."

Yes, I did have to go find the old copy of Forced Exposure where Coley reviews that record and yes, it would make a great t-shirt. Feh.

kerosene
10-17-2005, 04:21 AM
It's probably the safe choice critically but the two "Eminent JJ Johnson" volumes (particularly Vol.2) on Blue Note would be my advice on where it would be a good place to start for someone new to his music.

Hey, rcarey, do you listen to any Roswell Rudd or any of the combos he's known for playing with at all (Lacy, Shepp, etc.)?

sweabs
10-17-2005, 08:51 AM
It's probably the safe choice critically but the two "Eminent JJ Johnson" volumes (particularly Vol.2) on Blue Note would be my advice on where it would be a good place to start for someone new to his music.

Hey, rcarey, do you listen to any Roswell Rudd or any of the combos he's known for playing with at all (Lacy, Shepp, etc.)?

I have both the Eminent volumes, and they definitely have a "real" sound to them. You can even hear the boys playing out of tune at times. Don't get me wrong, those are some great albums, but I'm just more of a fan of his later stuff (except not too late...like Vivian).

I've never heard any Roswell Rudd...could you give me some more info.?

By the way - I love Sonny Rollins.

kerosene
10-17-2005, 03:49 PM
I've never heard any Roswell Rudd...could you give me some more info.?

By the way - I love Sonny Rollins.

Rudd is a fantastic trombone player, since you play (?) I figured I'd ask. He hasn't had all that many releases under his leadership (relative to most jazzmen anyway) but his career is deeply intertwined with a few particular people that he's played with over and over again: Steve Lacy (soprano - he and Lacy were seemingly inseperable for a long time), Archie Shepp (tenor) and Cecil Taylor (piano) are the primary ones. His style may not be your cup of tea as he's not a bop or hard bop player but he's played on some tremendous records and if you're interested in the 'New Thing' era, late period Coltrane, 60's Ornette, etc. at all you should definitely check him out.

Here's some links to a few cds that he plays on that I think are great (the shepp cd is tremendous, absolutely need to hear stuff). If you're curious you should check out the Amazon user reviews and see he sounds interesting


Roswell Rudd "Flexible Flyer" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000060FB/qid=1129576684/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-4062967-6914549?v=glance&s=music)

Archie Shepp "Four For 'Trane" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000003N9E/qid=1129577019/sr=2-3/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_3/102-4062967-6914549?v=glance&s=music)

Steve Lacy "School Days" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001YTK/qid=1129577336/sr=1-30/ref=sr_1_30/102-4062967-6914549?v=glance&s=music)

Cecil Taylor Unit / Roswell Rudd Sextet "Mixed" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000DD24/qid=1129577517/sr=1-19/ref=sr_1_19/102-4062967-6914549?v=glance&s=music)

Cecil Taylor "Jumpin' Punkins" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004XSYU/qid=1129577628/sr=1-34/ref=sr_1_34/102-4062967-6914549?v=glance&s=music)

sweabs
10-17-2005, 04:10 PM
Kerosene,

I just finished listening to some of the 1:00 minute clips from each album. Thanks for the links.

I must say that I really enjoyed what I heard from the Jumpin' Punkins album, along with the Four For 'Trane. I'm going to check out my store to see if they can get me those, or just end up getting them off the internet. I'm always looking to add to my collection, especially with trombone stuff.

Most of my collection centres around stuff from the 50s and 60s, but I've recently decided to give "free jazz" another shot - specifically Ornette Coleman. I don't know if I'll ever be able to understand his stuff, but I've been looking for new types of jazz that fit under this, as you label it, "new thing" era. I think some of this Roswell Rudd will be perfect; not to mention the heavy trombone influence will really appeal to me.

Thanks for the recommendations - do you have any other trombone artists or stuff worth looking into? Specifically from this era?

Harmonica
10-17-2005, 04:30 PM
Most of my collection centres around stuff from the 50s and 60s, but I've recently decided to give "free jazz" another shot - specifically Ornette Coleman. I don't know if I'll ever be able to understand his stuff, but I've been looking for new types of jazz that fit under this, as you label it, "new thing" era. I think some of this Roswell Rudd will be perfect; not to mention the heavy trombone influence will really appeal to me.
Yeah, free jazz is a little hard on my ears as well. As a music composer friend of mine said, "You have to work up to it, but it makes perfect sense." I had an interesting thing happen recently. I bought Bîtches Brew several years ago and just couldn't get into it. Well, a few weeks ago I put it on and wow! it just blew me away. They were breathing fire in those sessions. I kinda think that's what my friend was talking about. My ears weren't ready for it when I first heard it. Oh, have you listened to Grant Green's Idle Moments? That's one of those early-60s Blue Note recordings that incorporates a traditionally non-jazz instrument (Bobby Hutcherson on the vibraphone) and makes it somehow work to quirky effect.

pollardfreek
10-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Ever since I started getting really serious about my guitar playing and theory, I've started listening to jazz and blues so I could get schooled in the roots of more modern music. I've started listening to Louis Jordan and I've got to say I love his stuff. Since you guys seem to be experts on the subject I was just wondering if you had any suggestions for somebody like me who's just getting into the genre.

sweabs
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
Yeah, free jazz is a little hard on my ears as well. As a music composer friend of mine said, "You have to work up to it, but it makes perfect sense." I had an interesting thing happen recently. I bought Bîtches Brew several years ago and just couldn't get into it. Well, a few weeks ago I put it on and wow! it just blew me away. They were breathing fire in those sessions. I kinda think that's what my friend was talking about. My ears weren't ready for it when I first heard it. Oh, have you listened to Grant Green's Idle Moments? That's one of those early-60s Blue Note recordings that incorporates a traditionally non-jazz instrument (Bobby Hutcherson on the vibraphone) and makes it somehow work to quirky effect.

The scenario you outlined happens to a lot of people. My old jazz teacher said the same thing about Coltrane when he first started listening as a kid. These things just take time - I was the same with some of Coltrane's later stuff.

I have never heard Idle Moments. I'll look it up, because I've always had an appreciation for the vibraphone, yet my collection wouldn't reflect that. The only guy I've really listened to is Lionel Hampton.

sweabs
10-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Ever since I started getting really serious about my guitar playing and theory, I've started listening to jazz and blues so I could get schooled in the roots of more modern music. I've started listening to Louis Jordan and I've got to say I love his stuff. Since you guys seem to be experts on the subject I was just wondering if you had any suggestions for somebody like me who's just getting into the genre.

It's good you're listening to Louis Jordan - he's a very important figure in the development of Rhythm and Blues.

Judging by your avatar, you've already ventured into the realm of Muddy Waters which is another good place to start.

Robert Johnson is a guy you really should listen to, and if you want to go way back to an influential guitarist, listen to some of Blind Lemon Jefferson's stuff.

By the way - my favourite jazz guitarists are Stanley Jordan and Wes Montgomery.

Harmonica
10-17-2005, 06:01 PM
I have never heard Idle Moments. I'll look it up, because I've always had an appreciation for the vibraphone, yet my collection wouldn't reflect that. The only guy I've really listened to is Lionel Hampton.
When you send me the J.J. disc, make sure you include your return address and I'll burn a copy of Idle Moments and send it to you. You'll like it. It's really funky and laid back. Probably one of my favorites.

sweabs
10-17-2005, 06:03 PM
When you send me the J.J. disc, make sure you include your return address and I'll burn a copy of Idle Moments and send it to you. You'll like it. It's really funky and laid back. Probably one of my favorites.

Sounds great - thanks!

By the way, btown: What sax do you play? I'm sure you can play all, but what are you most comfortable with?

Harmonica
10-17-2005, 06:13 PM
Ever since I started getting really serious about my guitar playing and theory, I've started listening to jazz and blues so I could get schooled in the roots of more modern music. I've started listening to Louis Jordan and I've got to say I love his stuff. Since you guys seem to be experts on the subject I was just wondering if you had any suggestions for somebody like me who's just getting into the genre.
I used to play guitar a lot when I was younger and decided to take jazz guitar lessons at some point. I took them for about 6 months and my playing improved dramatically. I tended to play rock, but the jazz lessons brought an unusual dimension to my playing. rcarey mentioned Wes Montgomery. A great place to start with him is The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery. I also like Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue. And Grant Green's Idle Moments is one of my favorite jazz recordings.

sweabs
10-18-2005, 06:57 PM
I grew up on the alto, so that's my baby. I don't care for the tenor. It's just too funky. But there's nothing I love more than the rare opportunity to play a bass, as those things sound incredible in the right arrangement. Did I ever tell you I got to play at Carnegie Hall in grade school? Unbelievable experience.

You played at Carnegie Hall? They let you...btown, in there?

Just kidding - but how exactly did you get to experience that? Imagine the acoustics!

kerosene
10-19-2005, 04:40 AM
Hey rcarey, that's good to hear that you're intrigued enough to sample some more. I love the early Ornette stuff, his band was cracking in the 60s too (Scott LaFaro was just awesome when he was around, Don Cherry has had some moments of greatness as well - but he's got some 'strikeout w/ a man on 3rd' type records too methinks). It's not immediately accessible but after some good listening it makes more sense.

You might like some of the Steve Lacy/Roswell Rudd collaborations where they do all the Monk tunes (there are at least a few of those) but you may really enjoy an early Lacy cd called 'The Straight Horn Of Steve Lacy'. He's got a really interesting story in that he was a dixieland player who for some unknown reason Monk picked up to play with his combo for a while. Lacy took a lot away from his short time with Monk and Monk is sort of his muse in a way. 'The Straight Horn...' is one of his earlier sessions and isn't free, it's more or less a hard bop record and a fine one at that. It's not an inaccessible record at all.

Other trombone players... Grachan Moncour III is a free player who played with Shepp some and has done quite a few sessions where he was the leader. Not sure if you'd like him, I'm not a huge fan although he does have a very cool name. A good friend of mine is a trombone player so I've sat through the 'George Lewis Solo Trombone' record more than once. It's somewhat difficult to find records where trombone is featured prominently after the hard bop era because (as I'm sure you know being a player) it just fell out of favor when saxes and trumpets became the weapon of choice because scales could be done faster or it was more exciting to play or blah blah blah.

As far as New Thing or free stuff goes I wouldn't be the only person who swears up and down that Ayler's 'Spiritual Unity' is absolutely essential and is one of those rare documents that captures 'the right people' on 'the right day' at 'the right period of time'. His playing is fluid and very unique. The interaction between the trio is pretty amazing once you listen a few times and it's not just a rhythm section f'ing around while someone else is playing tenor. When Ayler and his band have it "on", I find his music beautiful in a very unique, emotional way. It can be challenging at times though. He has a very interesting and I would say tragic story as well but that's pretty well documented and I'm sure someone has it laid out online.

whew.

sweabs
10-19-2005, 11:29 AM
Kerosene - thanks for all the recommendations. I always like some direction when I'm going to look for new music, so thanks again. I've cut and paste a bunch of these suggestions from yourself and Harmonica and saved them in a word document.

Btown - sounds like an awesome experience. Did you guys have a real good music teacher, or was your success more a result of a bunch of talented players? Or a combination? I know sometimes you just happen to get a grade school band, where half the kids are taking private lessons.

Harmonica
10-19-2005, 11:52 AM
As far as New Thing or free stuff goes I wouldn't be the only person who swears up and down that Ayler's 'Spiritual Unity' is absolutely essential and is one of those rare documents that captures 'the right people' on 'the right day' at 'the right period of time'. His playing is fluid and very unique. The interaction between the trio is pretty amazing once you listen a few times and it's not just a rhythm section f'ing around while someone else is playing tenor. When Ayler and his band have it "on", I find his music beautiful in a very unique, emotional way. It can be challenging at times though. He has a very interesting and I would say tragic story as well but that's pretty well documented and I'm sure someone has it laid out online.

That's the second time I've seen Ayler's Spiritual Unity mentioned in as many weeks. Might be time to check it out.

pollardfreek
10-19-2005, 05:34 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions. I'm really enjoying the stuff you recommended. Stanley Jordan is simply amazing. Do any of you guys get the BET Jazz channel? I used to get it until they replaced it with Style. That channel really trained my ear for the stuff I'm listening to now.