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View Full Version : My first observations of the team this pre-season T-Wolves game



Unclebuck
10-14-2005, 11:48 PM
This was my first chance to watch the Pacers this season and I have several observations.

I like the new floor a lot, it looks really good in person, does not look as good on TV, but in person the white border looks very sharp. Good job to who ever designed the floor.

The list of Pacers who did not play is too long to list, so let me just discuss those who did play.

Saras - I don't have him figured out yet. He lost the ball several times and had a lot of trouble against the pressure defense of Troy Hudson, I mean he had all kinds of trouble, He made AJ look like Jason Kidd. Saras dribbled the ball off his foot, he threw the ball away several times and simply could not deal with the pressure defense

However, I'm not ready to give up on him, thats for sure. But I do question whether he is an NBA point guard. But he does have a lot of leadership skills, at times he reminded me of Mark Jackson. Saras knows how to run a team. I just don't know if he lacks quickness or if he is just tentative right now.

My sense is that Saras is a specialist, and yet he has some skills that starting point guards have. As I said I don't have him figured out yet. He sees the floor, he can shoot, he can do a lot of things, and he seems to be able to make plays in the clutch. Tinsley might start but if Saras can continue to make plays at crunch time Saras might finish games.

I really studied his defense tonight and I was expecting the worst. Overall I was pleasantly surprised. He reminds me very much of Mark Jackson on the defensive end. Sure, I wish he could pressure the ball and be a lockdown defender, but we know he never will be. But his anticipation is excellent, he was able to get several deflections.


Granger - He reminds me of someone. Scottie Pippen, maybe a little, but he reminds me of someone else and I can't put my finger on it - it drove me crazy all game long. He is taller and bigger than I thought so look for him to play a lot of power forward. The thing that I liked best about him was his team defense, for a rookie his team defense is shockingly good. He helps from the weakside, he's always in the right position, he never looked lost out there on the defensive end that is very unusual for a rookie.

No it is not Pippen. Pippen is more of a point forward, I don't think Danny is that. I just can't put my finger on who he reminds me of. The best thing I can say about him is he knows how to play basketball

Walker - I swear he's no taller than Granger. I suppose we have to keep him, but if he plays any this season we are in big trouble.

Overall tonight the Pacers interior defense was very poor espeically early on, they miss POllard, Foster, J.O and DH.

Cro - he was shooting well tonight and he must have done something to his hair, he looks like he has more on top than he did 5 months ago.

Jax - Was OK, Gill seemed a little better than I remembered . I don't care about any of the other guys who aren't going to make the team.

Let me end with Artest. He scored 26 point on 12 shots. He shot 8 for 12 and he seemed to be very much within the offense. He did seem to get a little tired, but I think that is why Rick is playing him a lot of minutes.

Not seeing David Craig on the bench seemed strange, He has been on the bench every gsame I've ever watched.

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 12:07 AM
Granger - He reminds me of someone. Scottie Pippen, maybe a little, but he reminds me of someone else and I can't put my finger on it - it drove me crazy all game long. He is taller and bigger than I thought so look for him to play a lot of power forward. The thing that I liked best about him was his team defense, for a rookie his team defense is shockingly good. He helps from the weakside, he's always in the right position, he never looked lost out there on the defensive end that is very unusual for a rookie.

What does that mean exactly? What is the weak side?

sixthman
10-15-2005, 12:11 AM
I liked Saras in the clutch. Buried a shot and made the right passes. Agreed the quickness of Minnesota seemed to bother him early, but I think that is only an adjustment thing.

Laughed my butt off at your Cro comment about his hair. But by damn it's true. He does have more hair, or at least looks like he does. Why didn't I think of that.

Agreed Granger is not a Scottie Pippen. But he's a ball player. Not sure who he is most like either.

Love those long arms, that moxy, and the willingness to mix it up. He appears to be one of the smarter rookies I've seen. I'd imagine he is one rookie Rick won't mind playing.

MagicRat
10-15-2005, 12:14 AM
What does that mean exactly? What is the weak side?

The weak side is the opposite side of the court from the ball.......

sixthman
10-15-2005, 12:16 AM
What does that mean exactly? What is the weak side?

The weak side is the side of the floor without the ball.

I saw the same thing Buck did. Granger knows where the ball is at the defensive end and he plays the ball as well as his defensive assignment.

travmil
10-15-2005, 12:21 AM
Granger reminds me of a more athletic James Worthy.

Unclebuck
10-15-2005, 12:24 AM
Granger reminds me of a more athletic James Worthy.


I think Worthy was more athletic than Granger is. Granger seems like a guy who is able and willing to provide the team whatever it might need on a certain night. Of course it is going to take him a couple of seasons to reach that point, but he will get there. Granger reminds me a little bit of James Jones

travmil
10-15-2005, 12:28 AM
I think Worthy was more athletic than Granger is.

I dunno. Granger runs the floor well, and can obviously jump through the roof. I think he has a bit more shooting range than Worthy too.

Harmonica
10-15-2005, 12:36 AM
The weak side is the opposite side of the court from the ball.......

Gracias.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 12:40 AM
Granger reminds me of a more athletic James Worthy.

..as opposed to an UNathletic James Worthy? :laugh:

dewman_32
10-15-2005, 12:45 AM
This was my first chance to watch the Pacers this season and I have several observations.

And yet you posted an earlier thread bashing Artest and saying that this team doesn't need him? Seems as though you are contradicting yourself.

:huh:

shags
10-15-2005, 12:45 AM
..as opposed to an UNathletic James Worthy? :laugh:

Yeah, no kidding. Maybe it's a more athletic Dominique Wilkins. Or to use a more modern example, a more athletic Jason Richardson.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 12:46 AM
And yet you posted an earlier thread bashing Artest and saying that this team doesn't need him? Seems as though you are contradicting yourself.

:huh:


...and this means he cant have an observation?

Kstat
10-15-2005, 12:47 AM
Yeah, no kidding. Maybe it's a more athletic Dominique Wilkins. Or to use a more modern example, a more athletic Jason Richardson.

You know, like a reggie miller, only with 3-point shooting ability...

shags
10-15-2005, 01:00 AM
You know, like a reggie miller, only with 3-point shooting ability...

I thought it was like a John Stockton who could see the floor. :crazy:

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:10 AM
..as opposed to an UNathletic James Worthy? :laugh:

I never said Worthy wasn't athletic. But feel free to be an *** anyway as it's what you do best.

Suaveness
10-15-2005, 01:16 AM
Oh SNAP!

Frank Slade
10-15-2005, 01:17 AM
taller and bigger than I thought so look for him to play a lot of power forward.

Yes UB that is what I was saying as well for awhile he is bigger than some give him credit for and he plays bigger than he is as well ...with that over 7ft wingspan really helps.

shags
10-15-2005, 01:19 AM
I never said Worthy wasn't athletic. But feel free to be an *** anyway as it's what you do best.

Well, if Granger is a more athletic James Worthy, than he must be arguably the most athletic player in NBA history. I haven't seen him play, so maybe you're right.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:21 AM
Well, if Granger is a more athletic James Worthy, than he must be arguably the most athletic player in NBA history. I haven't seen him play, so maybe you're right.

Ditto.

So shags, what'd you think of Maxiell? I thought he was like Barkley, but, you know, stronger and a better rebounder.

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:22 AM
Well, if Granger is a more athletic James Worthy, than he must be arguably the most athletic player in NBA history. I haven't seen him play, so maybe you're right.

Well that's certainly a skewed opinion....I know that Worthy was athletic, but more athletic than KG? Dominique? Shawn Kemp in his prime? There are a TON of players that I consider to be more athletic that Worthy.

Naptown Seth
10-15-2005, 01:23 AM
I never said Worthy wasn't athletic. But feel free to be an *** anyway as it's what you do best.
I was thinking the same thing. Talk about taking something out of context just to be an ***. Ofcourse I'd be upset too if my teams biggest rival just picked up a top-5 talent with the 17th pick in the draft while my GM continued to make laughably bad picks. (Darko, Maxiell, Delfino, Rodney White, etc.)

And as for Granger - he reminds me of a mixture of Tayshaun Prince and Tracy McGrady. Obviously a superior talent to Prince, inferior to McGrady in terms of skills and athleticism, however his basketball IQ may be higher than both put together. This guy looks like a future 10 time All-Star to me.

dewman_32
10-15-2005, 01:25 AM
...and this means he cant have an observation?

I guess I need to spell it out for you since you aren't capable of understanding it. He says that this team doesn't need Artest, then says he had his first observation of the team tonight. Kind of hard to make a comment on the team before you actually observe it. Anyone with an IQ over 45 should be able to figure that out. It's a good thing that I am here to point out common sense for you. If you decide to be a smart:censored: with me again, I'll be more than happy to show you the error of your ways. It's the least I can do for an apparent Pistons fan on a Pacers message board.

:kicknuts:

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:27 AM
....so 2 preseason games in, and Granger is better than a guy thats in the hall of fame, and a future 10-time all-star?

Ok, just checking. ;)

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:31 AM
....so 2 preseason games in, and Granger is better than a guy thats in the hall of fame, and a future 10-time all-star?

Ok, just checking. ;)

If that's what you read, then you need to go back to school. I didn't say he was better than Worthy. Seriously, just stop, you're not only making yourself look like an ***, but an *** that can't read.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:31 AM
I guess I need to spell it out for you since you aren't capable of understanding it. He says that this team doesn't need Artest, then says he had his first observation of the team tonight. Kind of hard to make a comment on the team before you actually observe it. Anyone with an IQ over 45 should be able to figure that out. It's a good thing that I am here to point out common sense for you. If you decide to be a smart:censored: with me again, I'll be more than happy to show you the error of your ways. It's the least I can do for an apparent Pistons fan on a Pacers message board.

:kicknuts:

.....you saying that he couldnt have had the same opinions a MONTH ago?

If he thinks the Pacers can do without Artest, thats different than guaging the new team as it is now as of preseason game #2. Completely different. Far be it for me to take the word of a former MVP over you, but I'm going to stick up for UB on this one.

And PLEASE, feel free to show me "the error of my ways," oh majestic one :laugh:

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:33 AM
If that's what you read, then you need to go back to school. I didn't say he was better than Worthy.

Obviously, I must just be imagining this then:


Granger reminds me of a more athletic James Worthy.
...or this....


This guy looks like a future 10 time All-Star to me.

Maybe I just need new glasses.


I didn't say he was better than Worthy. Seriously, just stop, you're not only making yourself look like an ***, but an *** that can't read.

Oh? He's more athletic than a guy that became a legend pretty much on his athletic ability, but he's not a better player? What makes Worthy better, his piano skills?

Bball
10-15-2005, 01:34 AM
I guess I need to spell it out for you since you aren't capable of understanding it. He says that this team doesn't need Artest, then says he had his first observation of the team tonight. Kind of hard to make a comment on the team before you actually observe it. Anyone with an IQ over 45 should be able to figure that out. It's a good thing that I am here to point out common sense for you. If you decide to be a smart:censored: with me again, I'll be more than happy to show you the error of your ways. It's the least I can do for an apparent Pistons fan on a Pacers message board.

:kicknuts:

You've obviously got Uncle Buck figured out. He's an Artest basher to the core. I doubt anything you can say could ever change his opinion and allow him to overlook some of Artest's ecentricities or give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's a shame really...


-Bball

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:36 AM
Here's what I typed:

He reminds me of a more athletic James Worthy.

Here's what you read:

He's better than James Worthy.

Seriously dude, you're an ***.

dewman_32
10-15-2005, 01:37 AM
.....you saying that he couldnt have had the same opinions a MONTH ago?

If he thinks the Pacers can do without Artest, thats different than guaging the new team as it is now as of preseason game #2. Completely different. Far be it for me to take the word of a former MVP over you, but I'm going to stick up for UB on this one.

And PLEASE, feel free to show me "the error of my ways," oh majestic one :laugh:

Try reading his post in the thread he started, then I'll accept your apology. Otherwise, you should just STFU and find a Pistons board to spew your crap all over. I respect UB as well, but his two threads contradict each other. And I don't think UB needs a Pistons fan with a low IQ sticking up for him, but we'll let him speak to that.

:console:

Frank Slade
10-15-2005, 01:37 AM
:lurk:

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:37 AM
You've obviously got Uncle Buck figured out. He's an Artest basher to the core. I doubt anything you can say could ever change his opinion and allow him to overlook some of Artest's ecentricities or give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's a shame really...


-Bball


:laugh: :laugh:

Newbies. lol.

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:38 AM
Oh? He's more athletic than a guy that became a legend pretty much on his athletic ability, but he's not a better player? What makes Worthy better, his piano skills?

LOL. Worthy a legend because of athletic ability? No, Worthy is a legend for bringing it in big games, hence the nick Big Game James. Try again....

shags
10-15-2005, 01:39 AM
Well that's certainly a skewed opinion....I know that Worthy was athletic, but more athletic than KG? Dominique? Shawn Kemp in his prime? There are a TON of players that I consider to be more athletic that Worthy.

I agree with you that on the whole players in today's NBA are more athletic than the players who played in Worthy's era. However, Worthy was one of the best athletes then, and would still be a top-tier athlete in today's game. Worthy's a hall of famer, and one of the great clutch players of his era. What skills did he possess beyond his athleticism that made him as good as he was? Nothing stands out, at least not to me.

As for Granger, he must be in the TON of players you consider more athletic than Worthy. I've never seen him play, but here's a pre-draft scouting report. Doesn't give rave reviews towards his athleticism. Maybe it's way off.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/dannygranger.asp

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:40 AM
Try reading his post in the thread he started, then I'll accept your apology. Otherwise, you should just STFU and find a Pistons board to spew your crap all over. I respect UB as well, but his two threads contradict each other. And I don't think UB needs a Pistons fan with a low IQ sticking up for him, but we'll let him speak to that.

:console:

As I just said before, his two threads DONT contradict each other, unless you think that UB shouldnt be allowed to have an OPINION before making his first preseason observations of the Pacers on the floor.

I can't say it any more lucid than that. Sorry, I tried my best.

As for me being a Pistons fan, did that have ANYTHING to do with any of this, Or are you running out of options?

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:41 AM
LOL. Worthy a legend because of athletic ability? No, Worthy is a legend for bringing it in big games, hence the nick Big Game James. Try again....


....and all those great screens and 18-footers, well-timed bounce passes and clutch rebounds are what allowed him to perform in those big games, right?

Oh wait...nevermind.

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:43 AM
What skills did he possess beyond his athleticism that made him as good as he was? Nothing stands out, at least not to me.

As I said above, Worthy is in the HOF because he played his best when it mattered most. Is he athletic, yes and I said as much. Do I think Granger is more athletic? Yes I do. Did I say Granger was better than Worthy? Nope, 'fraid not.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:46 AM
you know, i saw this guy yesterday, he was a better clutch shooter than reggie miller, easily. Not a better player mind you, but a better clutch shooter.

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:47 AM
....and all those great screens and 18-footers, well-timed bounce passes and clutch rebounds are what allowed him to perform in those big games, right?

Oh wait...nevermind.

OK I give. I understand now that you are just being contrary to provoke a reaction and are uninterested in opinionated debate. Silly me.

shags
10-15-2005, 01:50 AM
As I said above, Worthy is in the HOF because he played his best when it mattered most. Is he athletic, yes and I said as much. Do I think Granger is more athletic? Yes I do. Did I say Granger was better than Worthy? Nope, 'fraid not.

Well, either one of two things are true.

1. You're SEVERELY underestimating how athletic James Worthy was.

2. Granger is an athletic freak on the Fred Jones level.

t1hs0n
10-15-2005, 01:54 AM
....so 2 preseason games in, and Granger is better than a guy thats in the hall of fame, and a future 10-time all-star?

Ok, just checking. ;)


He will also be president in 2024. I will be the VP and we will revive the old WIG party.

travmil
10-15-2005, 01:55 AM
Well, either one of two things are true.

1. You're SEVERELY underestimating how athletic James Worthy was.

2. Granger is an athletic freak on the Fred Jones level.

I'd say it's closer to number 2 then. LIke I said, I understand that Worthy was athletic and never said he wasn't.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 01:57 AM
He will also be president in 2024. I will be the VP and we will revive the old WIG party.

:lmao:

BBall, you just got outdone.

t1hs0n
10-15-2005, 02:05 AM
:lmao:

BBall, you just got outdone.


That is... if the Mayans are wrong about the whole 2012 thing.

Naptown Seth
10-15-2005, 02:05 AM
Actually, in terms of basketball skill, Worthy is quite overrated. His legacy was primary built upon being a very good player who had the fortune of playing alongside some of the greatest talents of all-time and thus the championships that acompany them. Put him as the numero uno guy on an NBA team, and that team doesn't get past round 2.

Quick Trivia - How many All-NBA Teams did James Worthy make in his career?

Answer: 2, All-NBA 3rd Team in 90 and 91. Hardly impressive for an alleged top-50 all-time player.

Bball
10-15-2005, 02:21 AM
:lmao:

BBall, you just got outdone.

Sorry to inform you but I know James Worthy is running for president in 2024. Still think Danny is gonna be prez?

Also, in 2024 the Pacers will officially give up on Bender and waive him but not before signing him to a 3 year 3 bil "Thank You" contract for trying to come up with the breakout year that was never to be.

-Bball

Kstat
10-15-2005, 02:30 AM
Sorry to inform you but I know James Worthy is running for president in 2024. Still think Danny is gonna be prez?

Also, in 2024 the Pacers will officially give up on Bender and waive him but not before signing him to a 3 year 3 bil "Thank You" contract for trying to come up with the breakout year that was never to be.

-Bball


I hear Danny is a much better politician than James Worthy, but Worthy is still the better candidate.

Bball
10-15-2005, 02:48 AM
I hear Danny is a much better politician than James Worthy, but Worthy is still the better candidate.

Danny may be an OK politician but he's just not Worthy!

:rimshot:

-Bball

Naptown Seth
10-15-2005, 02:48 AM
....and all those great screens and 18-footers, well-timed bounce passes and clutch rebounds are what allowed him to perform in those big games, right?

Oh wait...nevermind.
Actually, playing with Michael, and then Magic and Kareem are what allowed him to perform in those big games. ;)

And as I previously stated, James Worthy's individual accomplishments aren't even close to top-50 worthy. (no pun intended)

He thrived off of the opportunities others made for him the same way a Robert Horry or, to a lesser extent, a Chauncey Billups does. Doesn't mean he's not a great player, it just means he's not nearly as great as people believe.

As for if Granger is more athletic, that I can't tell you as I havn't seen enough of Granger yet to fully develop an opinion on this subject. However from what I've seen it's very possible, and their builds are nearly identical. All Danny needs is a cheesy pair of googles and a greasy beard.

And finally, that this debate even exists is a tremendous compliment to Danny Grangers talent and the Pacers fortunes. I mean, we've got a #17 pick being compared to James Worthy, whereas the Pistons have a #2 pick being compared to Sam Bowie and Bruno Sundov. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh:

travmil
10-15-2005, 02:53 AM
Kstat, I'll ask you once more. Please show me where I said Danny Granger was a better basketball player than James Worthy. Please show me where I said that Danny's athletic ability makes him a better player than Worthy. Don't show me where you THINK I said something, or try to tell me and everyone else what I really meant when I posted it. Don't show me where you put two and two together to make 5. I simply compared Granger to Worthy, and you took off and ran with it trying to make me look foolish. Why? Show me where I actually said what you are reading. That is all.

sixthman
10-15-2005, 02:55 AM
This guy looks like a future 10 time All-Star to me.

You are joking, right?

Naptown Seth
10-15-2005, 03:03 AM
You are joking, right?
Not at all. Players with Danny's combonation of size, skill, athleticism, and most important of all, basketball IQ, are very few and far betweem. His amazing production at New Mexico and Bradley show this.

Stryder
10-15-2005, 03:13 AM
Not at all. Players with Danny's combonation of size, skill, athleticism, and most important of all, basketball IQ, are very few and far betweem. His amazing production at New Mexico and Bradley show this.

You need to slow down a bit.

Damn.

Granger has played in a couple of preseason games. Get ahold of yourself.

Calm down.

Relax.

Breathe.

Use some common sense and logic.

Give Granger a few years, then you can determine if he'll be a future 10 time all star...

SoupIsGood
10-15-2005, 03:37 AM
I think Saras has the skills, but played really tentative tonight. Someone needs to tell him that it is OK for him to dribble past the three point line and look to create or score, he's being too damn unselfish.

Raskolnikov
10-15-2005, 03:44 AM
I think Saras has the skills, but played really tentative tonight. Someone needs to tell him that it is OK for him to dribble past the three point line and look to create or score, he's being too damn unselfish.

that s a bit normal for a rookie isn t it? it will grow out of him during the season.
and as long as he takes over in crunch time (which he has apparently done in 2 preseason games), everything s ok for the pacers

Peck
10-15-2005, 03:44 AM
This was my first chance to watch the Pacers this season and I have several observations.

I like the new floor a lot, it looks really good in person, does not look as good on TV, but in person the white border looks very sharp. Good job to who ever designed the floor.

The list of Pacers who did not play is too long to list, so let me just discuss those who did play.

Saras - I don't have him figured out yet. He lost the ball several times and had a lot of trouble against the pressure defense of Troy Hudson, I mean he had all kinds of trouble, He made AJ look like Jason Kidd. Saras dribbled the ball off his foot, he threw the ball away several times and simply could not deal with the pressure defense

However, I'm not ready to give up on him, thats for sure. But I do question whether he is an NBA point guard. But he does have a lot of leadership skills, at times he reminded me of Mark Jackson. Saras knows how to run a team. I just don't know if he lacks quickness or if he is just tentative right now.

My sense is that Saras is a specialist, and yet he has some skills that starting point guards have. As I said I don't have him figured out yet. He sees the floor, he can shoot, he can do a lot of things, and he seems to be able to make plays in the clutch. Tinsley might start but if Saras can continue to make plays at crunch time Saras might finish games.

I really studied his defense tonight and I was expecting the worst. Overall I was pleasantly surprised. He reminds me very much of Mark Jackson on the defensive end. Sure, I wish he could pressure the ball and be a lockdown defender, but we know he never will be. But his anticipation is excellent, he was able to get several deflections.


Granger - He reminds me of someone. Scottie Pippen, maybe a little, but he reminds me of someone else and I can't put my finger on it - it drove me crazy all game long. He is taller and bigger than I thought so look for him to play a lot of power forward. The thing that I liked best about him was his team defense, for a rookie his team defense is shockingly good. He helps from the weakside, he's always in the right position, he never looked lost out there on the defensive end that is very unusual for a rookie.

No it is not Pippen. Pippen is more of a point forward, I don't think Danny is that. I just can't put my finger on who he reminds me of. The best thing I can say about him is he knows how to play basketball

Walker - I swear he's no taller than Granger. I suppose we have to keep him, but if he plays any this season we are in big trouble.

Overall tonight the Pacers interior defense was very poor espeically early on, they miss POllard, Foster, J.O and DH.

Cro - he was shooting well tonight and he must have done something to his hair, he looks like he has more on top than he did 5 months ago.

Jax - Was OK, Gill seemed a little better than I remembered . I don't care about any of the other guys who aren't going to make the team.

Let me end with Artest. He scored 26 point on 12 shots. He shot 8 for 12 and he seemed to be very much within the offense. He did seem to get a little tired, but I think that is why Rick is playing him a lot of minutes.

Not seeing David Craig on the bench seemed strange, He has been on the bench every gsame I've ever watched.


Your going to laugh at me but to be honest with you the first person I thought of, for some reason, when I saw Granger was Dwight Howard from Orlando. Just much smaller.

I don't know why. I just think they have kind of the same body shape.

Anyways, Saras did not excell against Troy Hudson at all. But, it's still pre-season & it's still very early.

I've gone from hating the thought of signing him, to accepting that they signed him to now being somewhat optomistic of the signing.

I guess the best thing for me to say is that right now I'm neutral on him & that is a big improvement from where I was early on.

BTW, as to Walker & Grangers height. Isn't Samaki only listed at 6'9" while Granger is 6'8"? So there is at best only an inch differance.

The more & more I see Granger play the more happy I become.

SoupIsGood
10-15-2005, 03:50 AM
that s a bit normal for a rookie isn t it? it will grow out of him during the season.
and as long as he takes over in crunch time (which he has apparently done in 2 preseason games), everything s ok for the pacers

Yes, but I am not that patient. :D He is so fun to watch when he looks to create, with his off-to-the-side handle and lightning passes.

Kstat
10-15-2005, 09:04 AM
You need to slow down a bit.

Damn.

Granger has played in a couple of preseason games. Get ahold of yourself.

Calm down.

Relax.

Breathe.

Use some common sense and logic.

Give Granger a few years, then you can determine if he'll be a future 10 time all star...

Dude...look who you're talking to....

Kstat
10-15-2005, 09:09 AM
And finally, that this debate even exists is a tremendous compliment to Danny Grangers talent and the Pacers fortunes. I mean, we've got a #17 pick being compared to James Worthy, whereas the Pistons have a #2 pick being compared to Sam Bowie and Bruno Sundov. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh:

.....so if I started a thread saying "Darko is better than Wilt," it would be a trmeendous compliment to Darko, because the thread would be full of people disagreeing with me? :laugh:

Typical seth logic. Get backed into a corner, and when all else fails, pull out the "Uh...err...well DARKO SUCKS! BWAAHAHAHA, I GOT YOUUUUU!" card. :lmao:

Give Darko 4 extra years to develop, and people are probably comparing him favorably to any number over respectable NBA players.

Hicks
10-15-2005, 09:10 AM
Someone be the bigger person here.

Unclebuck
10-15-2005, 09:24 AM
Your going to laugh at me but to be honest with you the first person I thought of, for some reason, when I saw Granger was Dwight Howard from Orlando. Just much smaller.

I don't know why. I just think they have kind of the same body shape.

Anyways, Saras did not excell against Troy Hudson at all. But, it's still pre-season & it's still very early.

I've gone from hating the thought of signing him, to accepting that they signed him to now being somewhat optomistic of the signing.

I guess the best thing for me to say is that right now I'm neutral on him & that is a big improvement from where I was early on.

The more & more I see Granger play the more happy I become.

You know, he does remind me a lot of Dwight Howard, that might be it.

Back to Saras for a second or two. I tend to subscribe to the theory that it is good to have two point guards that are very different. (not sure if that is a working theory or not) But I see Tinsley and Saras as very similar, not that there is anything wrong with that. But there will be games or times within games when the Pacers need some very good one-on-one defense from the point guard, and Tinsley and Saras just aren't going to provide it. Will they bring in Gill or even AJ during those times.

I could see times when the Pacers will want Saras to play point guard on the offensive end and shooting guard defensively. And I don't know if the Pacers have the other backcourt players to allow the flexibility to do that. Seems to me that Saras can and will be very effective if put in the right type of situations. Just not sure if he can be an NBA point guard for 35 minutes every game.

Unclebuck
10-15-2005, 09:26 AM
And yet you posted an earlier thread bashing Artest and saying that this team doesn't need him? Seems as though you are contradicting yourself.

:huh:


Well, others have defended my position a lot better than I can. But let me say that I was in no way bashing Artest, and if you go back and really read what I wrote, I raised a lot of questions, put forth a lot of arguments and yet I did not draw any conclusions.

Suaveness
10-15-2005, 09:51 AM
.....so if I started a thread saying "Darko is better than Wilt," it would be a trmeendous compliment to Darko, because the thread would be full of people disagreeing with me? :laugh:

Typical seth logic. Get backed into a corner, and when all else fails, pull out the "Uh...err...well DARKO SUCKS! BWAAHAHAHA, I GOT YOUUUUU!" card. :lmao:

Give Darko 4 extra years to develop, and people are probably comparing him favorably to any number over respectable NBA players.


Darko is the second coming of my Aunt Jenny!

DisplacedKnick
10-15-2005, 09:58 AM
Wow - this is great entertainment to read over breakfast but correct me if I'm wrong - did someone compare James Worthy to Robert Horry in this thread?

Maybe we should compare Reggie to Steve Kerr.

Suaveness
10-15-2005, 10:00 AM
I say we compare Jordan to Primoz! Seriously, Primoz could be more athletic than Jordan! He must be better!

DisplacedKnick
10-15-2005, 10:24 AM
Darko is the second coming of my Aunt Jenny!

Tell Jenny to pay her parking tickets.

Frank Slade
10-15-2005, 12:08 PM
:laugh:
Someone be the bigger person here.

What I go to bed and get up and this convo is still going on??

:lurk:

Believe_in_blue
10-15-2005, 04:23 PM
Yes, but I am not that patient. :D He is so fun to watch when he looks to create, with his off-to-the-side handle and lightning passes.

I agree. I would at least like to see him be a little more agressive early in these pre-season games that really don't matter. He's shown that he can do it late, but why not open it up throughout the whole game? I can't wait until Tuesday to watch him against Tony Parker.

317Kim
10-15-2005, 05:57 PM
:laugh:

What I go to bed and get up and this convo is still going on??

:lurk:

:nod: :laugh:

CableKC
10-16-2005, 12:32 AM
I'm not going to go through the 3 pages of post....but with Sarunas running the show....how does it compare to Tinsley's handling of the team?

Is it more fast paced? Better on the offensive end? I'm guessing Sarunas is learning the American style of BBall.....but it looks like he did well.

NMSportster
10-16-2005, 07:06 AM
Uncle Buck isn't that far off IMO.

I think Granger will be better statistically then Worthy was when his career is over. I've watched DG for 2 1/2 years, and here would be my comparision with DG vs JW.

Worthy was awesome going to the basket, he had a great first step and had an uncanny ability to rise quickly and finish strong before help D could rotate over. DG has a good first step, but not what JW's was.

Granger IMO a better ballhandler and a much better shooter then JW. He's very smooth with the ball and utilizes he body extremely well, also you'll find that he's an excellent passer. JW wasn't a great passer, but he put himself in good positions to score and of course Magic found him.

Athletically, well it's a tossup, both could/can jump out of the gym i've seen DG do some amazing things, elevating for oops that were just incredible. Of course JW was the man when it came to dunking and getting to the rim, JW was definately more flashy then DG, DG is smooth and just glides, it seems effortless so it just isn't as flashy as what JW used to do.

Rebounding, this is where DG will set himself apart from JW, he's a monster on the boards and like I said above, he uses his body extremely well and puts himself in excellent position for boards.

As far as current NBA players, I've alwasy thought that his game was very much like TMAC's. Both have about the same build and skills. I will say though that TMAC is very up and down, i've seen some games where he seems very uninspired and yet other times he flat unstoppable. Danny is a very consistent player, and he's EXTREMELY competitive, you guys will love his fire, he always plays with passion. Also, i'd say that DG has better overall court sense and leadership abilities then TMAC. I said this on another board when DG was drafted, but i'll be shocked if DG isn't the Rook of the year.

BTW, i'm a Heat fan, but now with DG being a Pacer they'll be my Co team unless they play each other hehe, then i'll be in a dilemma. Also, i'm sure i'll be flamed or laughed at by some but the more you see the more you'll believe.

SoupIsGood
10-16-2005, 08:38 AM
Well, as a New Mexico fan, you've seen him play much more than we have. Thanks for he insight, and welcome to PD! :welcome:

Unclebuck
10-16-2005, 09:04 AM
I'm not going to go through the 3 pages of post....but with Sarunas running the show....how does it compare to Tinsley's handling of the team?

Is it more fast paced? Better on the offensive end? I'm guessing Sarunas is learning the American style of BBall.....but it looks like he did well.

I've only seen the one game, and as I mentioned he struggled against the defensive pressure of Troy Hudson. So that stalled the offense. Hoiwever except for that one area, I thought Saras was great. One thing Saras appears more willing to do (although Tinsley used to do this also) is he's always looking to throw the ball ahead.

Overall Saras reminds me of how Jackson used to run the Pacers offense. He is constantly talking to his teammates, after every play he was giving them high-fives, slaps on the back, or just comminucating with them. He almost does it a little too much. Seems like that is something he's very used to doing.

Los Angeles
10-16-2005, 02:38 PM
Uncle Buck isn't that far off IMO.

I think Granger will be better statistically then Worthy was when his career is over. I've watched DG for 2 1/2 years, and here would be my comparision with DG vs JW.

Worthy was awesome going to the basket, he had a great first step and had an uncanny ability to rise quickly and finish strong before help D could rotate over. DG has a good first step, but not what JW's was.

Granger IMO a better ballhandler and a much better shooter then JW. He's very smooth with the ball and utilizes he body extremely well, also you'll find that he's an excellent passer. JW wasn't a great passer, but he put himself in good positions to score and of course Magic found him.

Athletically, well it's a tossup, both could/can jump out of the gym i've seen DG do some amazing things, elevating for oops that were just incredible. Of course JW was the man when it came to dunking and getting to the rim, JW was definately more flashy then DG, DG is smooth and just glides, it seems effortless so it just isn't as flashy as what JW used to do.

Rebounding, this is where DG will set himself apart from JW, he's a monster on the boards and like I said above, he uses his body extremely well and puts himself in excellent position for boards.

As far as current NBA players, I've alwasy thought that his game was very much like TMAC's. Both have about the same build and skills. I will say though that TMAC is very up and down, i've seen some games where he seems very uninspired and yet other times he flat unstoppable. Danny is a very consistent player, and he's EXTREMELY competitive, you guys will love his fire, he always plays with passion. Also, i'd say that DG has better overall court sense and leadership abilities then TMAC. I said this on another board when DG was drafted, but i'll be shocked if DG isn't the Rook of the year.

BTW, i'm a Heat fan, but now with DG being a Pacer they'll be my Co team unless they play each other hehe, then i'll be in a dilemma. Also, i'm sure i'll be flamed or laughed at by some but the more you see the more you'll believe.
Doesn't matter what team you're a fan of. If your posts are even half this good, you'll always be welcome.

Good to have you aboard, NM!

sixthman
10-16-2005, 02:45 PM
Those early turnovers by Sarunas were as much as team turnovers as his own, too.

Sarunas and the Pacers were caught off guard by early pressure and double teams on the ball. On the first turnover, had Cro, the safety valve, been moving toward the ball as he should have been there would have been no turnover and the press would have been broken.

I'm not worried at all about the press against Sarunas J.; He'll get used to the increased speed and get the ball up the court to the right person, much like he did in the fourth quarter against Minny.

Kegboy
10-16-2005, 05:53 PM
I say we compare Jordan to Primoz! Seriously, Primoz could be more athletic than Jordan! He must be better!

Primoz has a better hook than Jordan, so, by the logic shown in this thread, he's better than Kareem.

SoupIsGood
10-16-2005, 05:54 PM
Primoz is whiter than Jordan, easily. Primoz for MVP.

Frank Slade
10-16-2005, 05:56 PM
Primoz is whiter than Jordan, easily. Primoz for MVP.

Remember when Primoz took off from the free throw line at the Dunk Contest

Man that was great

:cloud9:

Anthem
10-16-2005, 06:14 PM
Remember when Primoz took off from the free throw line at the Dunk Contest

I thought that was John Edwards?

GO!!!!!
10-16-2005, 06:23 PM
Thread Hijackers in the house...

Nice Insight Mr New Mexico...

Unclebuck
10-16-2005, 08:44 PM
Those early turnovers by Sarunas were as much as team turnovers as his own, too.

Sarunas and the Pacers were caught off guard by early pressure and double teams on the ball.


That is an excellent point, and I certainly agree with you. Looks like the Pacers had not worked on their full court offense against pressure defense.

travmil
10-17-2005, 12:12 AM
Someone be the bigger person here.

I gave him the chance to be when I posted this:


Kstat, I'll ask you once more. Please show me where I said Danny Granger was a better basketball player than James Worthy. Please show me where I said that Danny's athletic ability makes him a better player than Worthy. Don't show me where you THINK I said something, or try to tell me and everyone else what I really meant when I posted it. Don't show me where you put two and two together to make 5. I simply compared Granger to Worthy, and you took off and ran with it trying to make me look foolish. Why? Show me where I actually said what you are reading. That is all.

The fact that it has been totally ignored for more than a day only reinforces the fact that he has no legs to stand on. I don't appreciate the way he tries to put words in other peoples mouths, and I appreciate it even less that it's tolerated. I have to believe that I would have already been warned about the troll-like bahavior demonstrated in this thread had it been me doing it.

Peck
10-17-2005, 12:40 AM
Those early turnovers by Sarunas were as much as team turnovers as his own, too.



While there certainly is some merit to what you are saying I have to state that in game # 1 vs. N.J. poor Samaki Walker was credited with 6 T.O.'s when 3 of those really were Sarunas fault. He litterally laid the ball at Walkers ankles.

However, in game's 2 & 3 your right, the team was not ready for the passes he was laying down.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 10:59 AM
I think I've figuired it out. Sarunas = Damon Bailey.

Hicks
10-17-2005, 11:02 AM
I gave him the chance to be when I posted this:

I saw that and I appreciate the effort.




The fact that it has been totally ignored for more than a day only reinforces the fact that he has no legs to stand on. I don't appreciate the way he tries to put words in other peoples mouths, and I appreciate it even less that it's tolerated. I have to believe that I would have already been warned about the troll-like bahavior demonstrated in this thread had it been me doing it.

If this returns PM me and we can discuss.

Unclebuck
10-17-2005, 11:11 AM
I think I've figuired it out. Sarunas = Damon Bailey.

Damon Bailey, what is he doing now

Frank Slade
10-17-2005, 11:13 AM
I think I've figuired it out. Sarunas = Damon Bailey.

Go back to the drawing board

:teacher: :tsk:

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 11:25 AM
No, I'm actully serious. Sorry that you can't put your thinking cap on. :unimpress

It isn't just that Sarunas actually looks like Damon from a distance. Even Jay's_Wife@Section204 noticed that, and when I asked Jay's_Dad@Section204 (and he's from/ played hoops @ Bedford) who Saras reminded him of, his first answer was "Bailey."

Similar games - good ballhandlers and shooters, good court vision. Similar size. The big question is whether or not they are quick enough to play PG in the NBA.

Damon wasn't. Of course, the fact that his knees were shot by the time he got to NBA made a big difference. Saras - the jury is still out.

My hunch is that, had Damon's knees held up, he might have been able to play his way onto an NBA roster at about the same age that Saras finally played his way onto an NBA roster.

I watched Damon make some similar good and bad plays in preseason games a decade ago.

With each of those players, you're going to hope the court vision, shooting, and direction they bring the offense is enough to offset their slow feet defensively. A good team-defense concept helps.

Unclebuck
10-17-2005, 11:34 AM
No, I'm actully serious. Sorry that you can't put your thinking cap on. :unimpress

It isn't just that Sarunas actually looks like Damon from a distance. Even Jay's_Wife@Section204 noticed that, and when I asked Jay's_Dad@Section204 (and he's from/ played hoops @ Bedford) who Saras reminded him of, his first answer was "Bailey."

Similar games - good ballhandlers and shooters, good court vision. Similar size. The big question is whether or not they are quick enough to play PG in the NBA.

Damon wasn't. Of course, the fact that his knees were shot by the time he got to NBA made a big difference. Saras - the jury is still out.

My hunch is that, had Damon's knees held up, he might have been able to play his way onto an NBA roster at about the same age that Saras finally played his way onto an NBA roster.

I watched Damon make some similar good and bad plays in preseason games a decade ago.

With each of those players, you're going to hope the court vision, shooting, and direction they bring the offense is enough to offset their slow feet defensively. A good team-defense concept helps.



Jay I thought you were kidding.

Comparing Damon to Saras seems a little unfair to me. Damon was an overrated shooter, and not that great of a ball handler. Perhaps there are some similarities, but Saras is a little better in almost every category. That makes him a lot better overall. Saras has played professional ball for what 10 years. Damon played for what, 3 minutes.

Frank Slade
10-17-2005, 11:37 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/events/1998/tournament/men/spotlight/images2/JASIKEVICIUS.jpghttp://www.bloomington.in.us/~cct/pictures/damonatiu.jpg
:rolleyes: :eyebrow:

RWB
10-17-2005, 12:14 PM
Damon Bailey memories..........Poor guy had to be really gun shy about giving out autographs......

I was helping (if you count lugging equipment) my brother for a comercial shoot with Bob Knight. They had just finished practice and heading toward the showers when my brother a big IU fan asked if Bailey would sign a ball. Bailey was nice enough to do so, but Knight caught a glimpse of this. After signing Knight yells over to Bailey "Bailey move your #@%$^%$ *** to the showers. You looked like ***** today, why someone would want your #$#@@$ signature is beyond me. My brother "Thanks Damon, sorry about that". Bailey "that's ok, I better get going" ducking his head like a whipped pup.

Damon Bailey, Greg Graham, and Todd Leary had made a mini tour of the state stopping at mainly shopping centers signing autographs. $5.00 for a Bailey, and $3 each for Graham and Leary. This was Bailey's rookie year and maybe even he knew his chances of making the PAcers roster was slim so why not capitalize while he had the chance. LBrown found out and let Damon know as long as he (Bailey) was associated with the Pacers there will be no charging.

CableKC
10-17-2005, 12:58 PM
I've only seen the one game, and as I mentioned he struggled against the defensive pressure of Troy Hudson. So that stalled the offense. Hoiwever except for that one area, I thought Saras was great. One thing Saras appears more willing to do (although Tinsley used to do this also) is he's always looking to throw the ball ahead.

Overall Saras reminds me of how Jackson used to run the Pacers offense. He is constantly talking to his teammates, after every play he was giving them high-fives, slaps on the back, or just comminucating with them. He almost does it a little too much. Seems like that is something he's very used to doing.
Thanks UB. Any comments from anybody that has watched Sarunas during his career in the Euro-Leagues? Is this type of communication the norm for him ( which I would guess )...and therefore what we can expect from the way he runs the show ( which sounds like a good thing )?

Anthem
10-17-2005, 03:57 PM
Comparing Damon to Saras seems a little unfair to me. Damon was an overrated shooter, and not that great of a ball handler.

Read what was said about Sarunas when he graduated from college.

If Damon's knees had held out, he could have done better playing in Europe rather than always trying to make an NBA team.

Bball
10-17-2005, 04:02 PM
Read what was said about Sarunas when he graduated from college.

If Damon's knees had held out, he could have done better playing in Europe rather than always trying to make an NBA team.

Damon would've been better served anywhere but IU under Knight had he wanted to make (and stick on) an NBA team... And he should've had his knees worked on before he finished college IMHO.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 04:31 PM
Its popular to ridicule Damon Bailey now, since his health/ game was admittedly in decline before his college career ended.

Its popular, but it isn't well-grounded in basketball reality.

Damon Bailey's game/ skills/ "winner"-ism (how's that for an adjective?) compare strongly to Saras. Saras has the fortune of better health, having spent enough time in Europe to learn how to (hopefully) overcome his lack of quickness.

Since86
10-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Damon Bailey, what is he doing now


I imagine he lives off just doing camps.

I went one two years ago, and even though I didn't think the camp was all that good, I enjoyed it. It wasn't a camp that was his name and he made the first keynote speech only to disappear until the end. He was running drills, doing examples, reffing games, interacting with the campers.

He did one-on-one shooting drills with each individual kid, but you had to buy the tape of your workout for like $15.

He was great to be around. He was easy to joke around with, and would sit down with different tables at meals and just talk about anything.

Bad camp for older players though. It was definately made for Jr. high players in mind.

Diesel
10-17-2005, 04:56 PM
from the very little Ive seen of Saras he's going to have trouble matching up with the quicker point guards in this league, we already knew that though, however Im surprised that he's having trouble bringing up the ball against full court pressure because many had said one of his skills were ball handling.

I can see Rick playing Saras off the ball more and have somebody else bring the ball up if he continues to look uncomfortable agaisnt pressure defense, this may free Saras up and give him better looks at the basket as well making it easier for him to get penetration in the lane where he can use his court vision to get others involved.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 05:12 PM
I imagine he lives off just doing camps.


There was an article I read a while back about just how well he had invested his money from his CBA playing days.

I believe he owns a few businesses, and that had something to do with why he never went over to Europe.

Since86
10-17-2005, 05:19 PM
There was an article I read a while back about just how well he had invested his money from his CBA playing days.

I believe he owns a few businesses, and that had something to do with why he never went over to Europe.


Wow, he must of made some good investments.

I can't imagine the CBA paychecks being all that great.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 06:41 PM
Well, when you're 23 years old and making something in the low-to-mid six figures and living in Fort Wayne (plus endorsements for the home-state hero), you can get a good start on the whole compound-interest thing.

Bball
10-17-2005, 07:15 PM
There was an article I read a while back about just how well he had invested his money from his CBA playing days.

I believe he owns a few businesses, and that had something to do with why he never went over to Europe.

I believe Damon did in fact play in Europe. The decision he had in front of him in 2000 was whether he really wanted to do it again. IIRC, it did offer the most money but Europe is a long way from Heltonville.

I'll see if I can verify that... (The 'played in Europe part'... I can verify Europe is a long way from Heltonville!) ;)

-Bball

Bball
10-17-2005, 07:25 PM
I found this clipping from 1997:

"The loss leaves Pau (5-9) with little hope of advancing to the 16-team European playoffs. Pau will now concentrate on winning the French league, in which it holds a one-game lead over Villeurbanne. Pau recently signed the Indiana high school legend Damon Bailey to its back court for the final months of the French season, including a crucial game late next month when he must go man-to-man with Rudd."

http://www.iht.com/articles/1997/02/08/bask.t.php

-Bball

Bball
10-17-2005, 07:28 PM
http://www.univ-pau.fr/~cgout/basket/bailey.html

ChicagoJ
10-17-2005, 10:16 PM
I'd forgotten about that trip, but you're (obviously) right.

Bball
10-18-2005, 04:32 AM
I'd forgotten about that trip, but you're (obviously) right.

Was there ever really any doubt? :D

-Bball