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View Full Version : Quick observations from the Jazz-Pacers pre-season game



Peck
10-14-2005, 12:47 AM
If you followed my advice from game 1 with N.J. you now feel better about yourself. Never take to much away from one game in the pre-season.

Same applies for this game, however you will now start to see a pattern develop & it will continue throughout pre-season.

Jon Bender. For as good as he looked in game #1 he looked totally useless tonight in game # 2. The Jazz cut off his driving lanes & he wasn't able to hit again from the field & they weren't fouling so he was useless. Well that is unless you consider fouling out of the game in very few min. usefull. Getting off of the floor was about the best thing he did all night. Now remember this I was at the game & drove all the way home before I wrote this & I did not listen to WIBC so until I saw U.B.'s post about Jon being injured I knew nothing about it.

But let me say this now so that way I can offend everybody right up front. If he is claiming he had a bad game because of a sore knee he is full of *****. His knee didn't seem to impact (thanks Jay) his ability to jump at all tonight & I'm sorry but Okur & Kirlinko as well as Lang & others cut off the baseline so he had no lanes to drive it did not have one damn thing to do with his knee. I feel a Rik Smits coming on here. Whenever Jon plays good his knee will feel fine, whenever he plays bad it's because he has a sore knee. No it couldn't be because he had a bad game, it just couldn't be that.

As happy as I was with him in game 1 I'm disgusted with him in game # 2 & to be honest I was totally willing to just let it go & write it off to just a bad game. But now I come home & read this crap, well I'm sorry but he just jumped right back up there with Mr. Nutso as Co-Captain of the "get them the fcuk out of town" train. Damn reading about him complaining about his knee p!sses me off:censored: .

While I'm in a pissy mood I might as well talk about Jamaal Tinsley as well. I don't care if he hurt his back or not, he played like crap again tonight. I have yet to see the guy put together one good offensive set this season. Now I understand we are once again playing with makeshift lineups thanks to J.O. not being there, but still he has played totally uninspired ball. His defense on Williams was ok & he did disrupt him a little on the defensive sive but overall I was not pleased with his game at all.

BTW, I really liked that Williams kid that Utah got. He is going to be a good pro-point guard.

Well, one more worthless player I will talk about as well. I was praying that Carlisle would take Jackson off of the floor during the entire first half. God he was horrid in every way out there. But thankfully he came around in the second half & played much better, he couldn't have played any worse.

Ok now I'll try & get a little more positive.

Well, for the first time I finally saw in real life during a real game what the hell you people were talking about with Saraunus's passing. Forget the shooting because I knew that was there, but man the guy advances the ball very well. If Jamaal continues on his crapfest & this guy plays like this then I wouldn't be suprised at all to see Jamaal somewhere else as the season goes on. But again, it was just one game. So we'll see how he does vs. real games.

Granger. I always like it when a players first NBA move is to block a shot. Yeah, I know he airballed his first shot from the floor but I don't care. He is very & I mean very active around the basket on both sides of the floor & it looks like he is going to take more than just a casual interest in rebounding. Not ready to be the starter yet, not YET anyway, but I think this guy will be very good.

I'm not even going to cover Artest or Croshere because just like I said after game # 1 neither of their games have changed. If you liked them before you'll like them after this game & if you hated them well same goes for that as well.

Pollard being injured damn near kills me because in the first quarter he actually made me forget..... Oh never mind. No in all seriousness the guy was playing the best basketball he's played since he's been here but like I said before, he can't play for very many games for very long.

So now I want you all to welcome aboard Samaki Walker your new starting center for the Indiana Pacers. Unless they use J.O. or maybe Cro you can bet that Walker will be holding down the center spot till either Harrison or Foster return (whoever gets back first).

I have no problem with Walker at all. He has a wide body, bangs & is not afraid to lean on a player on defense. He's not going to ever be an all-star but he is a decent solid backup. Why someone would insult him by calling him a bum is beyond me.

Now back to the injury thing.

Again, feel free to hate on me I can take it, but have you ever noticed that it's always the same old suspects that can't seem to play? I know I know were never supposed to question because every player is high on the moral standing chart & would never use an injury as an excuse nor as a reason to not play.

Call me a hater, I know you want to, but there are a couple that I do question. One in particular, no names mentioned.

Well, we won so that is a good thing. But coming home & reading some of this has just taken the wind out of my sails.

Lord Helmet
10-14-2005, 12:56 AM
Yeah, really that, 'bum' is going to be either your starting or backup center.........

So people, don't diss on him.

Pacers#1Fan
10-14-2005, 08:11 AM
I thought you said "quick observations" Just playin'

Unclebuck
10-14-2005, 08:46 AM
Peck, as you know I stay away from questioning whether anyone is injured or not or how injured someone is. But in the preseason they always error on the side of caution

I did not make it to the game last night, but I'll be there toight

Suaveness
10-14-2005, 09:06 AM
Hater :rolleyes:


And did I not say this would happen with Bender? It does. And this is the last I talk about it (I hope). The man isn't cut out to play professionally. Just sit at home.

Skaut_Ech
10-14-2005, 09:25 AM
Well Peck, I'm in ageement about a quite a bit of what you wrote.:buddies:

Cabbage: Okay, let's fess up. The guy has slow feet. Deron toyed with him time and again and especially caused him problems when he ran him off screens. Help D covered for Cabbage quite ba bit. Because of our team D, I don't think it's going to be much of a problem.

His passing? :rock: You know how some guys run the point and they look kinda panicky? Twitchy as they look for someone to pass off to? Cabbage looked really comfortable and if the other players didn't get open running off low post screeen, Saras simply drove the ball himself, keeping an eye on someone popping open. He would have had a couple more assists, but I can count three times wher he made a pass into the post to a moving man and the guy bobbled it. :shout: In terms of being a Reggie replacement, I noticed wuite a few times where he floated around the three line but not BEHIND IT after dishing into the post. THe D left him alone. Hope the rest of the league follows suit. If Jackson would have opened his eyes, we migt have gotten a couple of spot up threes for Sara. Once again, several times, he barked at Granger on where he needed to be on O and D.

Granger: I am HYPED about this kid. :thumbup: Remember how much we talked about the deer in the headlights look from Bender. Granger is the exact opposite. Especially on D. I though his decisions on help D were phenominal. He strikes me as a very smart kid. Never looked lost. I thought it was interesting that they tried to run the O through him from the high post several times.

Walker: "bum"? :rolleyes: As I said before, this is a guy that just needs a home...and I think he's found it. He hustled, bodied up on D and was generally pretty solid.

Bender: I'm not going to be so hard on Johhny B. Yeah, they cut off the driving lanes, but, in my mind, I felt the coaching staff told him, "No spot up jumpers!! Drive, drive, DRIVE!!!" I think they're looking for Johnny to be a midrange penetrator. Look at where they kept getting him the ball: about 10-12 feet out, olff the wing. He had to kep making lateral moves across the lane and kept forcing the shot. I would bet even money, he was instructed to to so. His D? Very, very average. He would try to bump his man, but there wasn't much strength behind it. :unhappy: I think the coaching staff is trying to establish a clear, define role for him. Just my thinking, I could be wrong, but looks that way to me.

Tinsley: He looked to me to be very dispassionate. I didn't see any fire from him.

Deron Williams: DAMN!! :2tup: I know it's one game, but talk about a kid playing with confidence! Phew!! He as aggressive on both ends of the court. Need a dish? He made some offensively perceptive passes. On D, he hararassed and didn't let up. Need a score. He drove AND took jumperts, planting both feet first. I just became a fan. Don't let him fall to me in the Keeper fantasy league, guys. Wait...DO.

Let me add, I liked JO not being in there. Not to diss Jermaine, but we had this muliple screen thing going on, rather than dump it into the post and work from there. I liked it. Hopefully we'll run things the same way with JO in there.

That's my take on things.

DisplacedKnick
10-14-2005, 09:42 AM
Deron Williams: DAMN!! :2tup: I know it's one game, but talk about a kid playing with confidence! Phew!! He as aggressive on both ends of the court. Need a dish? He made some offensively perceptive passes. On D, he hararassed and didn't let up. Need a score. He drove AND took jumperts, planting both feet first. I just became a fan. Don't let him fall to me in the Keeper fantasy league, guys. Wait...DO.



I've thought all along that he'll be the top PG to come out of this year's draft class. Big and very strong, quicker than you think and really knows how to run an offense. He can take contact and just keep on going as well as any PG that's in the league - even as a rookie. Felton and Paul both are in the "little Point Guard" group and I just don't think that works in the NBA any more - you have to be able to take a beating. Guys like them (and Boykins and Nate Robinson) are great for a change of pace but give them 35-40 mpg and see how long they last.

The other PG nobody paid much attention to that I like is Jarrett Jack but he's stuck behind Telfair in Portland so I'm not sure how much PT he'll get. But his game's a lot like Williams with a little better shot and a little less strength and defense (but not bad). We'll see how it all comes out.

A lot of people pointed to PG's as the strength of this draft but I disagree - I think it was swingmen - Williams, Green, Graham, Granger, etc. Some good PG's but the long-term stars will be swingmen IMO.

Frank Slade
10-14-2005, 09:47 AM
Great, thanks guys for the in person observations..Sounds like from what i have seen and heard Granger is as good and as fundamental as advertised very exciting there. Saras is coming around we knew he was not going to be the quickest PG especially on D but then again what Pacer PG has been in recent years so hopefully our team and helpsside D can compensate for that.

Walker should go ahead and put a down payment on some real estate on the northside this weekend. ;)

MagicRat
10-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Did anyone see how Pollard got hurt? To me it seemed like he did it inbounding the ball, but that can't be right. Can it?

Jamaal took a tumble trying to get to the hoop at the end of the half. Apparently that's when he hit his back.

Granger was solid on both ends. May have forced a couple of shots, but no complaints. I'm not sure about his goaltending call; I thought it was clean. He came across the lane to help Sarunas after Williams got by him, and I thought Danny got to the shot before it hit the board. The scoreboard replay had a poor angle, so I'm not sure.

Bender tried to force too much action on offense. Whenever he got it in an isolation, he tried to lower his head and Croshere into the lane. Although Bender did try to go behind his back a couple of times and lost control. Croshere wouldn't try that.

Croshere did a lot of Croshere-ing into the lane, too, and drew a lot of fouls. He took a pretty good beating. On one he was going up for a two handed jam and got hit and landed awkwardly; almost like he was going to do the splits. He came out of the game shortly after, then went to the locker room. He came back and played, though.

Sarunas was fun to watch, not only for the shooting, but because he's not "cool". He seemed considerably more excited about playing than most: talking to his teammates, talking to himself, high fiving after good plays. Sarunas and Granger both showed some excitement during the 4th qtr. rally. Although I'm not going to blame the other guys for not being too excited about playing the Jazz in preseason.

I know Ron scored well, but to me he looked big and slow. He has broad shoulders, which normally gives him a V shape. I thought he looked more like a U last night.

Edit: Oh and hopefully eating that dunk on the front of the rim will give Ron some extra incentive to drop a few.........

Kegboy
10-14-2005, 11:53 AM
<insightful basketball analysis>

Who the hell are you? :confused:

MagicRat
10-14-2005, 12:07 PM
Who the hell are you? :confused:

That's my one hoops post for the season. Now I can relax.........

ChicagoJ
10-14-2005, 12:19 PM
<insightful basketball analysis>Who the hell are you? :confused:

:lol:

That's the post of the day.

Suaveness
10-14-2005, 12:44 PM
That's my one hoops post for the season. Now I can relax.........

Whatever. We're going to be on your *** all year for more of these, you untalented fool.

Peck
10-14-2005, 02:43 PM
I want to reclarify this so there can be no confusion.

I had no problem with Jon Benders game last night. Well, let me restate that, he had a bad game & I can live with that. Every player has one of those nights & I was way way way more than willing to just chalk it up to one of those games. It happens, no big deal.

But where I about lost my mind was when I read him start complaining about his knee & how he would have to sit out a game or two.

Sorry folks, I don't buy it. I think his knee is now a crutch. Everytime he has a bad game it's because his knee hurts. I lived through this with Smits for years & truthfully I just am sick of it.

Does his knee hurt? I don't know & frankly I don't care at this point in time.

Al Harrington blew his knee out, I'll say that again, HE BLEW HIS KNEE OUT. We all saw it & most of us were sickened by the sight of it.

Yet, Al, when asked about soreness in his knee replies "yes, it's sore but you have to play on".

To the best of my knowledge Jon Bender has never blown out his knee.

Jon's knee didn't seem to bother him when he was doing the jump ball & was an arm & a half length above the Utah player. Jon's knee didn't seem to bother him going up for that block.

I'm telling you at this point in time it's in his head. If he can't do what he wants to do on the floor it's because of his knee.

Sorry gang, I just don't buy it. Mix me a batch of hateraid.

Unclebuck
10-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Peck, you don't have the slightest idea how bad his knee is. Neither do I. But he looked horrible last year, he could barely run or jump.

MagicRat
10-14-2005, 03:11 PM
"yes, it's sore but you have to play on".


"My knee is sore. And it will be sore. I will have to play through it....."

Sounds like about the same quote.....:confused:

Hicks
10-14-2005, 03:24 PM
It does sound the same.

And since when does 1 bad game followed by "my knee hurts" equal a pattern?

If he's doing this after every bad game, I'll agree, but not now.

denyfizle
10-14-2005, 03:26 PM
wow Peck givin love to Saras. But yea I agree on Walker and Granger as well. Pollard too. They've all impressed me so much. And as much as ya'll talk about Saras adjusting, I hope we get to adjust to him too (Pacers) coz he has so much to offer if we maximize his strengths. Not just his shooting, but how he can run a team, his passing, his leadership, his clutch accuracy and all that.

Danny hopefully stays healthy coz man is he a pedigree. Just a real Baller if you ask me. Kinda reminds me of Grant Hill. So let's just hope he wont end up like the Grant Hill of the past 5 years.

Injuries. *sigh* Why are we so damn fragile? Im not being an *** or insensitive it's just that we can't seem to have a full unit ever even when prior to all the games they've said our team was looking healthier than ever and started working out in advance. Is it our trainers? Our weather? Corn? eh? Give Ronnie a part-time gig since he wanted a real job before when he applied for Circuit City right? we should hire him as our conditioning coach. jk I hope everybody stays healthy though.

And about RonRon... Like in some cases, all we can do is just hope and pray... The talents and contributions are unquestionable. But I think if he really doesnt change his attitude and something even of a slight distraction comes up within this season, he's gone.

SJAX... please trade him first before anyone ever thinks of trading JT. I like his game but i dont quite think he's the guy ud want to compliment JO & Artest.

I still miss Al Harrington :(

Peck
10-14-2005, 05:36 PM
Peck, you don't have the slightest idea how bad his knee is. Neither do I. But he looked horrible last year, he could barely run or jump.

I totally disagree with you. I saw the same games & same plays you did & Jon Bender did not look like he could not run or jump. He looked like a player who didn't know the basics of the game but he looks like that all of the time so I can see where you couldn't tell the differance.

I'm sorry, up until I came home last night & read your report, I had made the huge mistake of actually starting to have some faith in him. For some damn reason I thought that this might me differant.

Peck
10-14-2005, 05:39 PM
It does sound the same.

And since when does 1 bad game followed by "my knee hurts" equal a pattern?

If he's doing this after every bad game, I'll agree, but not now.


This isn't the first time. I complained about this last year as well & I'm almost certain I complained the year before as well.

I should just shut up about him, but I just don't buy it anymore. I guess maybe just for my benefit he should limp. Maybe that's my problem.

SoupIsGood
10-14-2005, 06:07 PM
Noooo am I the lone Walker 'hater?' This guy is terrible, I don' want him on the team.

Peck
10-14-2005, 06:24 PM
Noooo am I the lone Walker 'hater?' This guy is terrible, I don' want him on the team.


Everybody is entitled to an opinion so yours is as valid as mine, but would you please clarify why you feel this way.

I have no idea what you see that screams terrible to you. John Edwards screams terrible, Bruno Sundov screams terrible. But I just don't see what you see in Walker that makes you say this.

What is it you see?

McClintic Sphere
10-14-2005, 06:41 PM
Peck, I agree with you that if I was making the 15 man right now, Walker would be on it. OTOH, I don't know how anybody can be getting exercised about anything that goes on in preseason with this team. We won 61 games two years ago showing we have the talent and desire to play hard for 82. Last year we overcame damn near calamatous circumstances to make the playoffs and give the Pistons a tough series so I have no questions about our mental toughness or coaching. Our only true goal is to win it all. I don't care if any of the starters or other key players show me jack this preseason. Start to really gel with team chemistry and a mean streak around late April like the Pacers used to during the 90's and that is all that concerns me.

SoupIsGood
10-14-2005, 07:15 PM
Everybody is entitled to an opinion so yours is as valid as mine, but would you please clarify why you feel this way.

I have no idea what you see that screams terrible to you. John Edwards screams terrible, Bruno Sundov screams terrible. But I just don't see what you see in Walker that makes you say this.

What is it you see?

You're right, terrible is probably a bit harsh. He's cerainly no Sundov or Edwards or Brezec (tee hee). That said, he's still not very good. He just hasn't done anything out there to impress me in the slightest.