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Hicks
10-12-2005, 07:47 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051012/SPORTS04/510120448/1088

nets 105, pacers 103
Artest shaky in return
Carlisle 'disappointed' with forward's freelancing
By Mike Wells
</script>mike.wells@indystar.com
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Ron Artest didn't want Tuesday's preseason opener against the New Jersey Nets to be a big deal.
He didn't plan on having friends and family members attend the game, although his hometown of Queensbridge, N.Y., is across the Hudson River from Continental Airlines Arena.

But just as his career has gone, nothing went according to plan for Artest.
Artest scrounged up 13 tickets for his family and friends only to have a far from glamorous performance in the Indiana Pacers' 105-103 loss to the Nets.
"I thought Ronnie struggled," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "At times he went away from what we were doing as a team and that disappointed me."
Artest had eight points on 3-for-8 shooting in 12 minutes. All three of his rebounds were offensive.
"I was practicing out there," he said. "I wasn't taking the game too serious out there because that's how the game was going."
Artest's comments of not taking the game seriously aren't what the Pacers want to hear, considering he's essentially been away from the game for a year. He played on the team's summer league squad in Minneapolis against lesser talent, but Tuesday marked the first time since the infamous brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills (Mich.) last November that he played in an organized, competitive game against NBA players.
Artest's stated approach to this season probably won't help him, either.
"I'm still going to be playing hard and wild and out of control like an animal that needs to be caged in," he said before the game. "I'll let the referees handle it."
Despite being without three of the team's key frontcourt players, Artest floated around the perimeter, pulling up for jumpers (0-for-3 on 3-pointers) bringing the ball up the court.
"I was just trying to do what I do," Artest said. "I have to let it come within the offense. I know I can take my man anytime, but that's not what it's about.
"It's an adjustment because when I left last season, it was totally a different style than what it is now. I have to get my timing back and adjust to the new style of play."
Artest received a mixed reaction from the sparse crowd during introductions and there was limited heckling from the fans.
"I'm looking forward to being bashed and cursed out," Artest said about facing unruly fans this season. "That's going to be a lot of fun."
The most animated Artest became was early in the third quarter, when he picked up two quick fouls and a three-seconds violation. Artest questioned, in a conversational tone, referee James Capers after he was called for a hand checking foul on a drive by Vince Carter. Artest left the game for good with 8:53 left in the third quarter.
"I think when I got Defensive Player of the Year I was playing great defense," Artest said. "Last year when they implemented those new rules, I was still playing very good defense. I just have to get adjusted to the NBA style of play. It will be fine because I can still slide my feet."
Artest is going to be in the spotlight throughout the season. Every one of his mishaps is going to be put under a microscope. Artest, however, sees it as a way to promote his second career. Artest plans to release a hip-hop compact disc later this season.
"(Music star) Jay Z, he pays millions of dollars for promotion, and I'm getting it for free," Artest said.

OnlyPacersLeft
10-12-2005, 08:10 AM
oh no...

Unclebuck
10-12-2005, 08:35 AM
Well that is not good to read.

As I was listening to the game last night it seemd as though Ronnie was taking some quick shots, but Mark and Slick didn't say anything so I didn't think much about it. Not having seen the game myself it is difficult to know just how bad it was. But if Rick said something it must not be good.

Ron better get his act together, we don't need this. This concerns me more than antyhing else Ron does. It is only preseason, so we'll see

Lord Helmet
10-12-2005, 08:42 AM
Great.......

Suaveness
10-12-2005, 08:44 AM
Hmmm

He can't do this stuff right now. Yes, he needs to be physical. But he must stop taking quick shots.

Pacers#1Fan
10-12-2005, 08:46 AM
First I over sleep and now I read this. I have a feeling this isn't going to be my day.

Harddrive7
10-12-2005, 08:54 AM
Horrible, horrible start to the day. Damn it RON!! Already, he didn't waste anytime at all. Damn it!

heywoode
10-12-2005, 09:14 AM
Does anybody know what we did with that 55 gallon drum of Thorazine we had lying around Conseco?

I think someone needs an IV drip....:mad:

This season should be all about "If you aren't with us, you're against us."

Hicks
10-12-2005, 09:14 AM
This is just a drop in the bucket, but to all those that preached ad nausuem about Ron being a "changed man" after 11/19, I hope you all take a long time to soak this in, and think about what it predicts.

naptownmenace
10-12-2005, 09:16 AM
Game 1 of the preseason and Ron Ron is already back to his bad habits.

The most irritating thing is he's back to saying really stupid things. I'm now officially worried.

NotLosingButWinning
10-12-2005, 09:20 AM
Game 1 of the preseason and Ron Ron is already back to his bad habits.

The most irritating thing is he's back to saying really stupid things. I'm now officially worried.

Artest will never stop saying stupid things. I could really care less about what he says before and after games. The fact that he wasn't playing within the offense is the most frustrating and disturbing part part. At the same time, I don't think he can start where he left off after last season.

heywoode
10-12-2005, 09:24 AM
Game 1 of the preseason and Ron Ron is already back to his bad habits.

The most irritating thing is he's back to saying really stupid things. I'm now officially worried.

Did he ever STOP saying stupid things?! I'm trying to remember that he was probably a little beside himself given the situation he was in, so I'm willing to let him work back into game shape, physically and mentally....

I guess I don't have much choice!

Ragnar
10-12-2005, 09:25 AM
Well at least it will be an interesting year.

sweabs
10-12-2005, 09:27 AM
I desperately want to believe that this will all work out okay, but what happens when JO comes back too? That's just one more offensive weapon out there, that potentially "takes away" some of Artests' shots.

Artest was playing with a lot of bench players and guys competing for a spot on this team. On the one hand, he may have felt obliged to pick up the slack and do the scoring for our team.

On the other hand, this could have been all about the "Artest show" - and he is in fact more concerned with personal stats than working collectively for the teams' success (which would go against everything he has said in the media...which also wouldn't surprise me).

P.S. - what a way to start off the year.................

Harddrive7
10-12-2005, 09:29 AM
It's just his way of thinking that gets me. The fact that he doesn't think that he did anything wrong. It's like when I catch my 13 year old doing something stupid, he may not think that anything is wrong with what he had done, but then again, HE'S 13!


So how long before we see the "What can we get for ron" thread?

Destined4Greatness
10-12-2005, 09:39 AM
I'm sure he knows he did something wrong. He is just to stupid and Arrogant to admit it.

And like Artest said, its been almost a year since he has played competitive basketball against NBA caliber players. Rick should have let him practice. He has a much bigger adjustment than anybody who was allowed in the league last year.

MagicRat
10-12-2005, 09:39 AM
Eh. Just let the referees handle it, Rick........

efx
10-12-2005, 09:41 AM
I saw the whole thing last night on TV and while he didn't exactly rush shots as much as he took alot of stupid ones.

This is something I forget about him every offseason. He's such a tremendous talent and on paper he should be virtually perfect. But his descion making can be atrocious at times and it affects the entire team it seems.

indygeezer
10-12-2005, 09:46 AM
:unimpress :bored:

fwpacerfan
10-12-2005, 09:46 AM
Those who anger you control you.

Ron controls a lot of people evidently!

Time will tell - I don't care what Ron says - what he does on the court is what is important. I think his play last night was a byproduct of playing in the summer league where he was expected to do it all. I personally think he wasn't that far out of control last night and he will reign it in even more as the preseason rolls on.

Unclebuck
10-12-2005, 09:50 AM
I want to say two things for the record.

1) I've never said that Ron will be a changed man. Never even thought it. I don't believe he will.

2) My vow from maybe two seasons ago to never pay any attention to what Ron says has served me rather well. While many of you rise and fall with what he says, I really don't even pay any attention.

I'm anxious to see how Ronnie plays in the next two homes games.

Unclebuck
10-12-2005, 09:54 AM
and he is in fact more concerned with personal stats than working collectively for the teams' success


I don't believe that. Why would you want personal stats during a preseason game when it does not count.

He does not go out on his own from time to time because he wants personal stats. He does it for two reasons. 1) That is his personality- his natural tendency. 2) He is too confident. He thinks he can score at will on anyone

Jim R
10-12-2005, 10:01 AM
Much ado about nothing. Here is a guy who says stupid stuff. Everyone knows that. It has nothing to do with his play. I don't even believe it has anything to do with his whether or not he's going to run into the stands and pummel someone. I don't believe that will happen again.

So we're back to quotes in the media and his play on the court. Look at all of what he is saying last year, all while pouring in 24 ppg, 50% from the field, and 92% from the line, all while playing his usual stellar defense. Evidently, all of that while being fatigued from a record tour. Again, much ado about nothing.

His play on the court last night was expected. JO was out. It was his first game back. He's the best shooter among the starters now. He was pressing, trying to do too much. It's not to excuse his play, nor is it bad that Carlisle calls him out on it. However, it's nothing to worry about after a single preseason game.

sweabs
10-12-2005, 10:03 AM
I don't believe that. Why would you want personal stats during a preseason game when it does not count.

He does not go out on his own from time to time because he wants personal stats. He does it for two reasons. 1) That is his personality- his natural tendency. 2) He is too confident. He thinks he can score at will on anyone

I said that is one of the possibilities. You don't have to believe it - but it's definitely an option.

Why would he care about personal stats in the first preseason game? Maybe because it's just that...the first preseason game. His first game back since the suspension. Gratned, the stats don't count in preseason, but they sure look good when ESPN is broadcasting how much of a "beast" you are coming back from your long suspension.

You raise another good point. He is too confident; he thinks he can score at will on anyone. This does have to do with stats, as I remember him saying numerous times in interviews "I could average a triple double in this league", etc. etc. blah, blah, blah.

Ugh...and I used to be one of the biggest Ronnie fans on here...what is happening to me?

able
10-12-2005, 10:03 AM
Bender hasn't really played an organized NBA game in about 3 years and he didn't have any headlines about his coach being "disappointed" in his efforts.

:shrug:

Dissapointed?????? he stayed upright, walked of the court on his own account, how could ANYONE be dissapointed, let alone the hact he played !

Kegboy
10-12-2005, 10:30 AM
I noticed he looked slow last night, but attributed it to the extra weight.

I also thought he was playing flighty, but attributed it to it being the first preseason game.

I'm as disappointed as everyone else. I just hope that Rick calling him out does some good.

Peck
10-12-2005, 01:16 PM
I wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that we have a new beat reporter for the star.

In other words I'm curious how many times in the past that Carlisle might have said something after a game or in practice that :montieth: just didn't find (for whatever reason) worthy to report on.

Well, for good or bad, does not appear to be the type who is going to tow the company line. Of course I love this but I know many of you are going to hate it.

Now as to what do I think about it, well to be honest with you I didn't think anything differant from Ron's game last night other than his shot wasn't dropping. In other words to me, this is the way I'm used to Ron playing.

I know for some of your sanity's you want to just blow off whenever Ron talks, but words have consequences & I'm sorry when the guys tells you that he is going to go out & play like an uncaged beast & then does it I guess what more warning do you need?

Harmonica
10-12-2005, 01:20 PM
I wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that we have a new beat reporter for the star.

In other words I'm curious how many times in the past that Carlisle might have said something after a game or in practice that :montieth: just didn't find (for whatever reason) worthy to report on.

Well, for good or bad, does not appear to be the type who is going to tow the company line. Of course I love this but I know many of you are going to hate it.

Seemed pretty straightforward to me. It's one thing to report something that may have been said off-the-record that wasn't intended for the general public to hear, and quite another to report something that was said publicly and out in the open. Seems Carlisle was being quite candid.

PacerMan
10-12-2005, 01:59 PM
Much ado about nothing. Here is a guy who says stupid stuff. Everyone knows that. It has nothing to do with his play. I don't even believe it has anything to do with his whether or not he's going to run into the stands and pummel someone. I don't believe that will happen again.



Why do you RA lovers ALWAYS act like running into the stands was the only thing this idiot ever did?
Plenty of people were ready to dump his goofy a** BEFORE that happened!

Kstat
10-12-2005, 02:08 PM
For someone who's as big a composure freak as Carlisle, I wonder how frustrated he gets with ROn's antics....

Harmonica
10-12-2005, 02:28 PM
For someone who's as big a composure freak as Carlisle, I wonder how frustrated he gets with Ron's antics....

Enough where he's gone to management and asked them to intervene.

Unclebuck
10-12-2005, 02:28 PM
I think Montieth would have included that quote from Rick in his article, but Wells made it the whole article. MM would have mentioned it but he would have discused other things also.

Knucklehead Warrior
10-12-2005, 02:44 PM
This is looking more like the RC rehabilitation process. You're going to do everything and whatever I want. These are the conditions of your continued employment.

This is sort of like slapping the hand of a bad kid everyday until he "gets it." This looks like a test of wills between a parent and a 2-yr-old.

Pistoner
10-12-2005, 02:49 PM
This is looking more like the RC rehabilitation process. You're going to do everything and whatever I want. These are the conditions of your continued employment.

This is sort of like slapping the hand of a bad kid everyday until he "gets it." This looks like a test of wills between a parent and a 2-yr-old.


You shouldn't slap your kids everyday.

Since86
10-12-2005, 03:41 PM
UB has summed it up the best, I think any ways.

You get a player that's been waiting almost a full year to get back in the lineup, he's not going to be as focused as what he should be no matter if it's Ron, Bird, or Michael Jordan.

They're going to do one of two things. 1) Press the issue or 2) look totally out of place.

Preseason is exactly that, games before the season. The standings don't carry over, nor do the stats. There were people starting to worry about the Colts during preseason as well, and IHMO there hasn't been carry over from it.

The coaches will look at the tape, sit down with Ron and explain the situation. When he starts doing it in games then I'll get worried. But my apologizes up front for him not passing the ball to Snap and shooting it himself before hand.

Evan_The_Dude
10-12-2005, 05:34 PM
Every player in the NBA has games now and then where they don't seem very focused. We just heard about it this time because it's Ron. If Reggie Miller were to say "I didn't take the game very seriously", we knowing it was a preseason game would have just shrugged it off and thought nothing of it. Hell, the comment's would have never been published.

I just hope everybody understands that the media is going to be all over Ron this year. Things that probably every NBA player says once in a while will be made to look much worse when they come from Ron's mouth. Nobody is going to write much positive about Ron if it has to do with anything other than his playing ability. We can either be fools and buy into what the writers and sports channels say about him, or we can be quiet and have some faith in the guy.

I care less if he said he's still going to be out of control, I care less if he OPENLY ADMITED he didn't take a preseason game seriously. What I've noticed about Ron is that a lot of what he says is almost always twisted to mean something totally different. I'm not going to fall for it. He didn't play very hard in his first preseason game. Big deal, I'm not losing sleep over it.

SoupIsGood
10-12-2005, 05:40 PM
I'd offer up my opinion, but I'm not in the mood to completely overreact right now. Maybe later.

Ralph Snart
10-12-2005, 05:51 PM
I think we're reading too much into one preseason game, and the preseason in general. It's his first "real" game back, and with the type of personality he has, I don't think it's very surprising that he is trying to push his "rep" in one game.

Once the season starts, if Ron isn't running off the script becomes an issue, I'm sure the coaching staff will address it as they always have. While Ron does have a pretty serious history, everyone forgets what a good season he had in 2003-2004 (barring the flagrant on Hamilton).

We know he can do it, if we can get that Ron Artest back this year, I think we will do very well.

Kstat
10-12-2005, 05:57 PM
everyone forgets what a good season he had in 2003-2004 (barring the flagrant on Hamilton).

....and barring the 5 prior games thats series that he spent shooting his team in the foot....

SoupIsGood
10-12-2005, 06:00 PM
....and barring the 5 prior games thats series that he spent shooting his team in the foot....

4 games. I think he had one good game, I remember all the "OMG coach WAVED A BROOMSICK AT HIM!" stuff.

Tim
10-12-2005, 06:20 PM
What Rick is doing is the same thing the Refs do every preseason, setting a tone for the season.

Rick is trying to instill some expectations on Ron right off the bat.

I think Rick wants to deal with any Artest issues during preseason. We should be focused once November rolls around.

Hicks
10-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Sticking one's head in the sand does tend to make the world seem more peaceful than it actually is.....

Suaveness
10-12-2005, 10:14 PM
I love sand.

I don't care, it's the preseason. People say stuff. Whatever.

Jermaniac
10-12-2005, 10:17 PM
I will wait till the end of the preseason before I make any dumb *** comments like some have been doing here.

SoupIsGood
10-12-2005, 11:12 PM
Sticking one's head in the sand does tend to make the world seem more peaceful than it actually is.....

And sticking it in the fire makes it a lot more painful that it really is....

BlueNGold
10-12-2005, 11:37 PM
I want to say two things for the record.

1) I've never said that Ron will be a changed man. Never even thought it. I don't believe he will.

2) My vow from maybe two seasons ago to never pay any attention to what Ron says has served me rather well. While many of you rise and fall with what he says, I really don't even pay any attention.

I'm anxious to see how Ronnie plays in the next two homes games.

I am ready to make a call. If Ron is not a changed man, we need to consider trading him. I do think what he says affects team chemistry, so it is a problem. Also, I think his recent statements in the press are a slap in the face to the Pacers organization and the fans given what he has put us through and how we have backed him.

Sorry for the harsh words for those who still want to support him. I still want to believe he can change as well. I just feel like we are rolling the dice on this guy again. If we can get 80% value for him on the market we should do it.

Jermaniac
10-12-2005, 11:46 PM
Enough where he's gone to management and asked them to intervene.No

JO7PlusJax
10-12-2005, 11:47 PM
I am ready to make a call. If Ron is not a changed man, we need to consider trading him. I do think what he says affects team chemistry, so it is a problem. Also, I think his recent statements in the press are a slap in the face to the Pacers organization and the fans given what he has put us through and how we have backed him.

Sorry for the harsh words for those who still want to support him. I still want to believe he can change as well. I just feel like we are rolling the dice on this guy again. If we can get 80% value for him on the market we should do it.

Trade him and blow our chance at a title? I'm sorry, as a Pacer fan i've been waiting too long for us to have a chance to win a title and this year is our best chance yet.

What statements Ron makes affects you? That he's from the streets and he's "ghetto"? Ron will never change who he is but he will work to mature and grow up as a person as he has but he will never change who he is.

I am a Pacer season ticket holder, and Pacer fans at Conseco love and adore Ron. It isn't like how it is online.

FireTheCoach
10-12-2005, 11:52 PM
Ron and Ben hook up again on Feb. 4th. Round 2, the fights back on

I gaurantee, in Rons mind, that brawl isn't over.... not when all he managed to do was rough up a couple geeks in the seats. Nah.....

Of course... all of US think that Ron needs to just be a professional athlete, but Ron Artest ............ man that cat don't think like me and you.

s.i.g.h.

Harmonica
10-12-2005, 11:56 PM
No

Um, yes.

SoupIsGood
10-13-2005, 12:01 AM
Ron and Ben hook up again on Feb. 4th. Round 2, the fights back on

I gaurantee, in Rons mind, that brawl isn't over.... not when all he managed to do was rough up a couple geeks in the seats. Nah.....

Of course... all of US think that Ron needs to just be a professional athlete, but Ron Artest ............ man that cat don't think like me and you.

s.i.g.h.


How exactly do you know this?

PacerMan
10-13-2005, 12:02 AM
Trade him and blow our chance at a title? I'm sorry, as a Pacer fan i've been waiting too long for us to have a chance to win a title and this year is our best chance yet.

What statements Ron makes affects you? That he's from the streets and he's "ghetto"? Ron will never change who he is but he will work to mature and grow up as a person as he has but he will never change who he is.

I am a Pacer season ticket holder, and Pacer fans at Conseco love and adore Ron. It isn't like how it is online.

IF he's going to continue to be an a** and disrupt the team in any way, we stand just as much chance without him as we do with him. He's got great talent, but no talent is worth putting up with a head case year in and year out. We've got replacements now. He minds his p's and q's or his butt is gonnnnnnnnnnne.
:)

JO7PlusJax
10-13-2005, 12:06 AM
IF he's going to continue to be an a** and disrupt the team in any way, we stand just as much chance without him as we do with him. He's got great talent, but no talent is worth putting up with a head case year in and year out. We've got replacements now. He minds his p's and q's or his butt is gonnnnnnnnnnne.
:)

How is he an A$$ and disruption to the team?

Jermaine and the other players all themselves said what a great friend Ron has become and how he is closer to all the players. That argument just doesn't fly.

THe argument that we stand as much as a chance without him is just balony. Ron is a top 10 player and having two top 10-15 players on your team creates a "Shaq like dominance" as Rick Carlisle said.

I have been a lurker here for a while, and while I have no problems trading players, it is only if it is for the betterment of our organization. The Pacers are currently a top 3 team in the league. Without Ron, we are lucky if we are a top 10 team (even if that).

BlueNGold
10-13-2005, 12:08 AM
Trade him and blow our chance at a title? I'm sorry, as a Pacer fan i've been waiting too long for us to have a chance to win a title and this year is our best chance yet.
I think keeping him has a good chance of destroying team chemistry. To a lesser extent, I fear he will be banned from the game. I also think a healthy Pacers team with the addition of Granger and 80% trade value for Artest is a better bet not just for a championship, but for a run of championships. Make no mistake, I do not discount Artest's ability and value to the team. I think he may be one of the top 10 players in the game...but I would be for a fair trade.



What statements Ron makes affects you? That he's from the streets and he's "ghetto"? Ron will never change who he is but he will work to mature and grow up as a person as he has but he will never change who he is.
Not sure where the Ghetto reference is coming from. I like the fact he has a tough guy image. I do not like the fact he shows very little respect and appreciation for a team and a city that has backed him. Also, whether he is doing rap or country music means nothing to me. The fact he appears to prioritize his music above basketball at times does matter to me. In any event, we would not be seeing some of these quotes in the media if he had really grown up. His words foreshadow his actions...and that does not bode well for this season.

I am a Pacer season ticket holder, and Pacer fans at Conseco love and adore Ron. It isn't like how it is online.[/quote]

FireTheCoach
10-13-2005, 12:12 AM
I think keeping him has a good chance of destroying team chemistry. To a lesser extent, I fear he will be banned from the game. I also think a healthy Pacers team with the addition of Granger and 80% trade value for Artest is a better bet not just for a championship, but for a run of championships. Make no mistake, I do not discount Artest's ability and value to the team. I think he may be one of the top 10 players in the game...but I would be for a fair trade.


Not sure where the Ghetto reference is coming from. I like the fact he has a tough guy image. I do not like the fact he shows very little respect and appreciation for a team and a city that has backed him. Also, whether he is doing rap or country music means nothing to me. The fact he appears to prioritize his music above basketball at times does matter to me. In any event, we would not be seeing some of these quotes in the media if he had really grown up. His words foreshadow his actions...and that does not bode well for this season.

I am a Pacer season ticket holder, and Pacer fans at Conseco love and adore Ron. It isn't like how it is online.[/QUOTE]


I2I

aceace
10-13-2005, 12:16 AM
After reading the star article, I got a gut feeling that maybe RA will be the guy traded with Granger taking his place. I'm not sure who we could get in return... maybe a good player + draft pick. First preseason game and the controversy has already started. The man has attention deficit disorder (ADD), it has to be all about him. We can't win with Artest/Rodman being the #2 option on our team.

JO7PlusJax
10-13-2005, 12:16 AM
I think keeping him has a good chance of destroying team chemistry. To a lesser extent, I fear he will be banned from the game. I also think a healthy Pacers team with the addition of Granger and 80% trade value for Artest is a better bet not just for a championship, but for a run of championships. Make no mistake, I do not discount Artest's ability and value to the team. I think he may be one of the top 10 players in the game...but I would be for a fair trade.

I don't think he will destroy team chemistry. None of us online here really know what goes on inside the Pacer lockerroom and fact of the matter is Ron has improved his relationship with Jermaine O'Neal and has a very solid relationship with Stephen Jackson and several of our other players.

I got love for Danny, but he's a rookie. No way we win a title without Ron. No way. Ron is our defensive presense. His intensity makes our team into a top 2-3 defensive team in the league and without him, we frankly aren't that good of a defensive team. We don't have a stopper for the McGrady's and Paul Pierce's of the NBA.



Not sure where the Ghetto reference is coming from. I like the fact he has a tough guy image. I do not like the fact he shows very little respect and appreciation for a team and a city that has backed him. Also, whether he is doing rap or country music means nothing to me. The fact he appears to prioritize his music above basketball at times does matter to me. In any event, we would not be seeing some of these quotes in the media if he had really grown up. His words foreshadow his actions...and that does not bode well for this season.

Ron doesn't show respect and appreciation for the Pacers and Indianapolis? :-o :-o :-o That's breaking news, call the tabloids!

Ron has shown a lot of gratitude for the support of the Pacers organization along with the wide-spread support of Pacer fans. I really have no clue where you are getting he doesn't have respect for the Pacers organization, Indianapolis, and Pacer fans. I find that comment personally a little disrespectful.

I don't think Ron places music over basketball. There are 24 hours in a day. He doesn't play basketball 24 hours a day. He has time to do other things as well and he has a passion for music. What's the big deal?

What quotes? That he wants to be a "Wild beast that needs to be kept in a cage"? He is just saying what type of intensity and force he will bring to the court and how he will never change.

What other quotes? All he is trying to do is keep his street credibility for the hood. He cares about that image very much and that is certainly his prerogative. Stephen Jackson keeps that hood image as well.

Shade
10-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Ron is never going to completely "change," that's just the way he is. All we need is for him not to break plays and self-destruct and we should be fine. I'll worry if this spills over into the regular season, but the fact remains, we need Ron-Ron to win the :trophy:.

Suaveness
10-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Ron is never going to completely "change," that's just the way he is. All we need is for him not to break plays and self-destruct and we should be fine. I'll worry if this spills over into the regular season, but the fact remains, we need Ron-Ron to win the :trophy:.


Nobody values your opinion.


And yes we do need him. He won't go into the stands anymore. Which is good.

Shade
10-13-2005, 12:23 AM
Nobody values your opinion.
I do... :cry:


And yes we do need him. He won't go into the stands anymore. Which is good.
Yeah, pretty much. He's always going to be a nutcase, but damn it, he's OUR nutcase! :banghead:

Suaveness
10-13-2005, 12:26 AM
I do... :cry:


Yeah, pretty much. He's always going to be a nutcase, but damn it, he's OUR nutcase! :banghead:


We should have him dress up as Mr. Peanut and parade him around the city as a Pacers promotional tour.

indygeezer
10-13-2005, 12:26 AM
(sigh...already)

I really don't worry too much about what he SAYS. HE's like the 10 year old that says outrageous things either to GET attention or to DIVERT attention away from what he did (or is about to do).

I'll remind that the sainted one (#31) was no alter boy himself. HE was a bit outspoken too (bowing to the Bulls crowd...choke signing for the cameras etc). Now, his antics never cost us a season or a shot at the ring, but he was embarrassing at times none the less.

Rick calling out RA in the papers? So what? It's been done before clean up his act now before the season. Breaking plays or not playing within the team concept?....that's easy, 1) That's Ron alot of the time when he DOESN"T TRUST THE OTHERS ON THE FLOOR TO DO THEIR JOBS. 2) That wasn't his "team" out on the floor with him....the starters weren't playing, they were "hurt" (suffering "Preseasonitis"). HE wasn't breaking plays, he was playing "I'm the man tonight I gotta do it my way". BTW...I'm convinced he will always play within the team concept until HE decides that the others can't do their job as good as he can by himself.

Yeah, I have MAJOR concerns about Ron, but what he SAYS is one of the least of them.

Shade
10-13-2005, 12:27 AM
Makes me wonder even more what was behind Ron's "family emergency" a couple weeks ago.

indygeezer
10-13-2005, 12:40 AM
ya know...I've hardly posted the last couple of months because I was sick of hearing about Ron and the same old arguements. I REALLLY REALLY looked forward to the season so we could see some basketball and just enjoy it.
But look at what's happened already.....bleayach!

If we are jumping all over RA and his "mistep" already....just imagine what the other fans, the league, the media, and Der Commish will be holding in store for Ron the rest of this year.

Arcadian
10-13-2005, 12:41 AM
Ron has always said stupid things and done stupid things. I care to a degree about the things he says because it shows that he doesn't get it. Sure, it is possible that he starts acting right and still say stupid things. But he hasn't shown that he can do that.

sweabs
10-13-2005, 12:48 AM
It seems like a lot of people within this thread are focussing on what he said. Although that stuff annoys me, it's not what I'm really worried about.

It's the fact that Rick is calling him out on the way he is playing. Not what he is saying, but how he is playing. And in the end, it's how you perform on the court that matters.

Since I'm a stupid-Ron supporter, I guess I'll just hope it had to do with the fact that it was his first preseason game, and he was testing things out. However, Rick obviously had an offensive scheme for everyone to go by, and it was Rons' decision to do otherwise; that is what's really irksome.

JO7PlusJax
10-13-2005, 12:51 AM
I just don't get it. Ron played only 13 mins and shot only 8 shots. He shot 3 out of 8. So what? It was a pre-season game people.

indygeezer
10-13-2005, 12:59 AM
Our buddy Foretaz posted this on another forum...I'm stealing it and posting it here. Pretty good read....
===============================================
ive taken a bit of time to digest this situation....and here are some thoughts...

this really shouldnt come as a huge surprise....

if u notice the tone of most of artests comments lately, they have taken a decided turn towards the defiant side....

and i think its by design....i read where artest is concerned about his bad boy image....and i think thats 100 percent accurate....

lets not forget, artest took a huge financial hit....u factor in the animosity over making relatively low money compared to other stars in the league and ron is definitely concerned with money and image....and they go together....he realizes(or probably his marketing people do) that being the badboy in the public's eye will help him promote...the old 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'...

hes being very careful to try to say he hasnt lost his edge and will continue to be the same guy....all the while, saying something like what happened in detroit wont happen again....

ron is torn between too many directions....and is trying to appease to many people....when u factor in his normal habits on the floor, well its the recipe for some problems....

someone i respect once said, 'u cant pay attention to what ron says'....only what he does...

and thats very true....

remember these things....first it was a preseason game....ron had a number of friends/family from his nearby ghetto hometown at the game....ron has a burning desire to atone for his absence last year-and given his tendency to try to do to much-his actions and carlisles calling him out on it shouldnt be a big surprise....

rons passing it off as a preseason game and 'just practicing' says to me hes embarassed about how things played out...

because anyone that knows ron knows thats not his attitude....he goes full bore all the time....and he missed most of his shots that werent layups....

ron wants to atone so badly that hes gonna make the mistake, from time to time, of trying to do too much....and i think the powers that be will realize this as well....they wont like it, and will let ron know, just as rick did...

i think the publicity thing is gonna be a bit of a nuisance....but i dont think its gonna go away....ron wants to get his.....he lost a lot of money, especially when he was poised to make a lot off the court....so he seems to be in a full court press both on the floor and off the floor to make up for it....

and i cant help but think, some of his handlers and marketing people have been trying to determine whats the best way to maximize the dollars when it comes to all the attention hes gonna get over the course of the season....

not unlike him hyping the allure album last year...my only fear is that its not gonna go over very well with the pacer organization....i hear a 'look ronnie, this isnt gonna work....we need u to focus on basketball and become the invisible man'.....where ron responds 'look, i lost a lot of dough last year....and u guys get by with paying me very little....so im not gonna make up all that dough i lost just focusing on basketball or being the invisible man...im gonna have the spotlight on me, so i might as well use it to my financial advantage'

the pacers wont like it...and the league wont like it...it doesnt exactly go along with the dress code image theyre working on....

but from a marketing of ron standpoint, this all makes sense....say all the right things to get reinstated during the offseason...then once the season comes and the spotlight comes-say and do everything u can to make sure the spotlight stays on u for as long as possible....i think we are in for a season of rodman/barkley.....a series of unorthodox antics with a slew of off the wall comments-all geared to keep ron in the spotlight....

i know many would love to have ron let his playing speak for him....i just dont see it going down that way.....no matter how many people it disappoints....
==========================================

Jim R
10-13-2005, 01:05 AM
Why do you RA lovers ALWAYS act like running into the stands was the only thing this idiot ever did?
Plenty of people were ready to dump his goofy a** BEFORE that happened!

Cool...am I a Ron Artest lover? That's a little too kneejerk for my taste, but I wasn't ready to dump his a## before that. I guess if with my meager 10-12 posts you can assume I'm an Artest lover, then I can only imagine what your 1,400 posts means. Personally, I tend to think that life is a little less two-sided than the hole you've pigeoned me in.

I'm not sure what it is Artest exactly did wrong this time. He says stupid stuff. He pressed too much in his first game back. You talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm not a molehill lover either...for the record. :buddies:

tinsley#11
10-13-2005, 01:05 AM
Although i do not argree with how Ronnie acts sometimes, we cannot jump to conclusions and get mad at him b/c he wants to be "ghetto" or "hood". I mean look at Jax he is a big "thug" he is maybe more "hood" than Ronnie and he will tell you that. I think i read somewhere that he is still a part of his gang back in Texas. Bottom line is we need both of them for the championship b/c flat out they both can play ball.

Peck
10-13-2005, 02:13 AM
Trade him and blow our chance at a title? I'm sorry, as a Pacer fan i've been waiting too long for us to have a chance to win a title and this year is our best chance yet.

What statements Ron makes affects you? That he's from the streets and he's "ghetto"? Ron will never change who he is but he will work to mature and grow up as a person as he has but he will never change who he is.

I am a Pacer season ticket holder, and Pacer fans at Conseco love and adore Ron. It isn't like how it is online.

You fly all the way in from California for every home game? Wow, that must cost you.

BTW, are you still going to do road trips this season or just stay for the home games?

JO7PlusJax
10-13-2005, 02:36 AM
dawg what are you talking bout?

xphoenix
10-13-2005, 03:55 AM
I'll remind that the sainted one (#31) was no alter boy himself. HE was a bit outspoken too (bowing to the Bulls crowd...choke signing for the cameras etc). Now, his antics never cost us a season or a shot at the ring, but he was embarrassing at times none the less.




Reggie never embarrassed me. Ever.


/x

Harmonica
10-13-2005, 08:08 AM
I'm not sure what it is Artest exactly did wrong this time. He says stupid stuff. He pressed too much in his first game back. You talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

He didn't do anything wrong, but considering what he's put this ballclub and its fans through, I think many would like to see him keep a low profile, play ball without the shenanigans and try not to call attention to himself or the team. I don't think that's too much to ask. Is Ron being held to a different standard than his teammates? You bet your *** he is. And if we're only going to by what Ron does on the court (and not what he says), then Rick already calling him out after the first pre-season game is a little disconcerting. But again, after everything the guy has done, nothing surprises me anymore. Tick-tock, tick-tock...

fwpacerfan
10-13-2005, 09:14 AM
It is always interesting to re-watch a game after spending a day seeing what Carlisle had to say. After watching again - I'm pretty sure Rick calling Ron out was a motivation tool. Ron played within the offense more than AJ, Saras, Gill or Croshere did. I saw him take a couple of bad shots but so did everyone else.

The only think I can think of is that it wasn't the game play Rick was referring to - I think Rick sees something going on in practice that he doesn't like. For whatever reason Ron responds to public criticism more than he does private criticism.

McClintic Sphere
10-13-2005, 09:33 AM
I think the fact that RA was playing near home and had many homies in the stands played a big part in this. Sounds like he takes the Edgerrin James attitude towards preseason, which never bothered me at all. Ron received, according to interviews I read, lots of personal approval from people towards him after 11/19/04. He is always going to be torn between showing that he can't be controlled and wanting to win. RC sending a warning shot across the bow shows how much the Pacer's are going to hold his feet to the fire on his stated goal of putting team chemistry above personal issues.

fwpacerfan
10-13-2005, 10:42 AM
Private criticism doesn't impact (thanks Jay) record sales?

I agree. I think Ron likes the attention though. It helps further develop his "street cred." He's a bad boy who doesn't cohere to rules or regulations. I think that is why he says some of the things he says - it gets attention.

Jermaniac
10-13-2005, 12:01 PM
Um, yes.Nope, you act like you know what goes on with the Pacers org, you dont know ****. You know as much as me and everyone on here knows.

BillS
10-13-2005, 12:03 PM
You shouldn't slap your kids everyday.

Ummm ... if I slap my kid's hand to keep him from touching a hot stove, and he tries it again the next day I'm going to do the same thing until he equates "trying to touch stove" with "bad result". The smacked hand bad result is much better than the burned hand bad result.

We're not talkin' about a beatin' (though that might help Ron), just an attention-getter.

Jermaniac
10-13-2005, 12:04 PM
You fly all the way in from California for every home game? Wow, that must cost you.

BTW, are you still going to do road trips this season or just stay for the home games?LMAO

Jermaniac
10-13-2005, 12:05 PM
U mad,doggyThere I fixed it for you

MagicRat
10-13-2005, 12:10 PM
Our buddy Foretaz posted this on another forum...I'm stealing it and posting it here. Pretty good read....
===============================================
ive taken a bit of time to digest this situation....and here are some thoughts...

this really shouldnt come as a huge surprise....

if u notice the tone of most of artests comments lately, they have taken a decided turn towards the defiant side....

and i think its by design....i read where artest is concerned about his bad boy image....and i think thats 100 percent accurate....

lets not forget, artest took a huge financial hit....u factor in the animosity over making relatively low money compared to other stars in the league and ron is definitely concerned with money and image....and they go together....he realizes(or probably his marketing people do) that being the badboy in the public's eye will help him promote...the old 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'...

hes being very careful to try to say he hasnt lost his edge and will continue to be the same guy....all the while, saying something like what happened in detroit wont happen again....

ron is torn between too many directions....and is trying to appease to many people....when u factor in his normal habits on the floor, well its the recipe for some problems....

someone i respect once said, 'u cant pay attention to what ron says'....only what he does...

and thats very true....

remember these things....first it was a preseason game....ron had a number of friends/family from his nearby ghetto hometown at the game....ron has a burning desire to atone for his absence last year-and given his tendency to try to do to much-his actions and carlisles calling him out on it shouldnt be a big surprise....

rons passing it off as a preseason game and 'just practicing' says to me hes embarassed about how things played out...

because anyone that knows ron knows thats not his attitude....he goes full bore all the time....and he missed most of his shots that werent layups....

ron wants to atone so badly that hes gonna make the mistake, from time to time, of trying to do too much....and i think the powers that be will realize this as well....they wont like it, and will let ron know, just as rick did...

i think the publicity thing is gonna be a bit of a nuisance....but i dont think its gonna go away....ron wants to get his.....he lost a lot of money, especially when he was poised to make a lot off the court....so he seems to be in a full court press both on the floor and off the floor to make up for it....

and i cant help but think, some of his handlers and marketing people have been trying to determine whats the best way to maximize the dollars when it comes to all the attention hes gonna get over the course of the season....

not unlike him hyping the allure album last year...my only fear is that its not gonna go over very well with the pacer organization....i hear a 'look ronnie, this isnt gonna work....we need u to focus on basketball and become the invisible man'.....where ron responds 'look, i lost a lot of dough last year....and u guys get by with paying me very little....so im not gonna make up all that dough i lost just focusing on basketball or being the invisible man...im gonna have the spotlight on me, so i might as well use it to my financial advantage'

the pacers wont like it...and the league wont like it...it doesnt exactly go along with the dress code image theyre working on....

but from a marketing of ron standpoint, this all makes sense....say all the right things to get reinstated during the offseason...then once the season comes and the spotlight comes-say and do everything u can to make sure the spotlight stays on u for as long as possible....i think we are in for a season of rodman/barkley.....a series of unorthodox antics with a slew of off the wall comments-all geared to keep ron in the spotlight....

i know many would love to have ron let his playing speak for him....i just dont see it going down that way.....no matter how many people it disappoints....
==========================================

If you're going to do it, do it right, Geezer........:shakehead.............;)

Jermaniac
10-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Dang UB and Foretaz turning into Ron haters lol, I never thought I would see the day

MagicRat
10-13-2005, 12:22 PM
You mad.

He just does him. He changes his user name. He uses Titans and soccer avatars for the forum. I don't know about his family, so if you hear from me about him being in the club getting it popping, I have no clue. He don't care what people think about him. He's at your chick house every summer. He's like the king of your chick house. Nobody does it how he does it. That's pretty much it man. He's that dude. etc., etc........

Frank Slade
10-13-2005, 12:28 PM
He just does him. He changes his user name. He uses Titans and soccer avatars for the forum. I don't know about his family, so if you hear from me about him being in the club getting it popping, I have no clue. He don't care what people think about him. He's at your chick house every summer. He's like the king of your chick house. Nobody does it how he does it. That's pretty much it man. He's that dude. etc., etc........

:laugh:

Wait a ** minute Nino Brown is Golly I'm Gully???
You need to tell me these things people.....!!

Harmonica
10-13-2005, 12:36 PM
Nope, you act like you know what goes on with the Pacers org, you dont know ****. You know as much as me and everyone on here knows.
You're right. I just make things up as I go along. Pay me no mind.

MagicRat
10-13-2005, 12:48 PM
You're right. I just make things up as I go along. Pay me no mind.
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/harmonicasidekick2.gif

indygeezer
10-13-2005, 12:52 PM
If you're going to do it, do it right, Geezer........:shakehead.............;)



as dificult to believe as this is, it was not in purple. He wrote it in black.

PacerMan
10-13-2005, 12:53 PM
Ummm ... if I slap my kid's hand to keep him from touching a hot stove, and he tries it again the next day I'm going to do the same thing until he equates "trying to touch stove" with "bad result". The smacked hand bad result is much better than the burned hand bad result.

We're not talkin' about a beatin' (though that might help Ron), just an attention-getter.

A WHOLE lot better would be to sit them down and explain to them lovingly that you don't want them to get hurt so they need to stay away from the stove.
There's no reason to strike a child. Ever

grace
10-13-2005, 01:39 PM
A WHOLE lot better would be to sit them down and explain to them lovingly that you don't want them to get hurt so they need to stay away from the stove.
There's no reason to strike a child. Ever

You have got to be kidding me. Well, before you argue with me I will agree that my mother telling me she'd knock me into next week if I did ... was a pretty good deterant. Except for the times I thought it would be pretty cool to be away from her if I was in next week and she was still here. :D

RWB
10-13-2005, 01:42 PM
You have got to be kidding me.

No Grace, boiling water works much better.

Jermaniac
10-13-2005, 01:47 PM
He just does him. He changes his user name. He uses Titans and soccer avatars for the forum. I don't know about his family, so if you hear from me about him being in the club getting it popping, I have no clue. He don't care what people think about him. He's at your chick house every summer. He's like the king of your chick house. Nobody does it how he does it. That's pretty much it man. He's that dude. etc.,MR knows whats up

Harmonica
10-13-2005, 01:57 PM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/harmonicasidekick2.gif

That looks like a Suzuki Samurai. I had the Sidekick 4-door. Although I'm not tracking with you at all.

Peck
10-13-2005, 02:01 PM
That looks like a Suzuki Samurai. I had the Sidekick 4-door. Although I'm not tracking with you at all.

I just think deep down inside you want Samaki Walker on the team.

ChicagoJ
10-13-2005, 03:35 PM
What a fun thread.

I'm so glad this tool is back, and up to his old tricks in his first public Pacers' appearance in ten months.

:puke:

McClintic Sphere
10-13-2005, 07:34 PM
If you're going to do it, do it right, Geezer........:shakehead.............;)


thank you for putting foretaz in his native purple... i consider it a literary heresy to read him any other way...nothing more to add... just wanted to contribute...a...few...more...elipses...to honor...foretaz.

Pacesetter
10-13-2005, 11:23 PM
Something tells me he's going to be fine, just call it a hunch!

indygeezer
10-14-2005, 01:27 AM
That looks like a Suzuki Samurai. I had the Sidekick 4-door. Although I'm not tracking with you at all.



Hey HArmonica...when did Johnny Cash give you the finger? Nice pix