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mmpfm1
08-03-2005, 11:47 PM
I had a heated conversation with one of my co- workers the other day. He argued that Tom Brady is a better quarterback then #18 because he has 3 rings. But I said that it was mostly defense that led to pats victory and that #18 is a far better player. Then he said that Peyton only puts up great numbers because of the other players on the colts offense.

What are your opinions?

Lord Helmet
08-04-2005, 12:03 AM
I had a heated conversation with one of my co- workers the other day. He argued that Tom Brady is a better quarterback then #18 because he has 3 rings. But I said that it was mostly defense that led to pats victory and that #18 is a far better player. Than he said that Peyton only puts up great numbers because of the other players on the colts offense.

What are your opinions?
Ah, the old Peyton vs. Brady battle. Hear that one over at RATS constantly. Here is my opinon on the battle. Brady has 3 rings and yes, you are right he does have a more complete football team. Peyton is better than Brady I think. Peyton can put up a lot of TD's and only throw a very low percentage of INT's.

Peyton's only good because of his offensive players? Pleeease. If Peyton wasn't there this Colts team would not be what it is.

Brady just has a more complete team, where the Colts don't. If Peyton had a defense as good as the Pats, we'd have some banners to hang in the Dome.

Diamond Dave
08-04-2005, 12:04 AM
Almost impossible to say. This debate consumed the NFL last year, and will next year I'm assume.

When you figure this one out, let me know. Then we'll know if Marino was better than Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Young, or Farve.

My vote is that Tom Brady is perfect for the Patriots. Peyton would not have fit into the Patriots as well. However Tom Brady is not capable of the stats that Peyton is, and probably could not do enough to win a game strictly on offense like Peyton often does.

Lord Helmet
08-04-2005, 12:18 AM
Almost impossible to say. This debate consumed the NFL last year, and will next year I'm assume.

When you figure this one out, let me know. Then we'll know if Marino was better than Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Young, or Farve.

My vote is that Tom Brady is perfect for the Patriots. Peyton would not have fit into the Patriots as well. However Tom Brady is not capable of the stats that Peyton is, and probably could not do enough to win a game strictly on offense like Peyton often does.
Yeah, good point.

denyfizle
08-04-2005, 12:30 AM
Brady til Peyton wins one...

Brian
08-04-2005, 02:20 AM
As far as skills,Manning would kill Brady.

NOBODY can argue that.

denyfizle
08-04-2005, 03:21 AM
its still about winning though. but as far as skills, stats etc. Brady is Peyton's waterboy.

BluBlood
08-04-2005, 09:22 AM
And its still a team sport. we are talking about individual talent here. Peyton has greater arm strength, better touch, understands the game better, quicker release.

The Patriots own the Colts. Its not a Peyton v. Brady debate. I dont see how people can argue that.

Stryder
08-04-2005, 10:24 AM
Look at the teams...

Patriots have a top ten offense and a top ten defense.

Colts have a top five offense and a bottom five defense.

Brady has the more complete TEAM. That is why they have won 3 Super Bowls.

Football is a TEAM game. Not an individual sport.

I don't know why people don't understand that. Sometimes common sense is uncommon.

This Brady vs. Manning comparison is silly and uses flawed logic.

They are cogs in two independent and non-related scenarios.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 10:32 AM
Brady always looks cooler and sharper in tight spots than Peyton does. That's got to count for something.

Stryder
08-04-2005, 10:47 AM
Brady always looks cooler and sharper in tight spots than Peyton does. That's got to count for something.

You can act a little more calm when you know that your defense will be there for you and make a stop or two when it is needed.

Since86
08-04-2005, 11:04 AM
its still about winning though. but as far as skills, stats etc. Brady is Peyton's waterboy.

That's a team argument, not a player. That's like saying that Bronson Arryo is a better pitcher than Johan Santana, because Bronson has a ring and Johan doesn't.

When one player wins a championship, then that argument has validity. But the way it stands now, Peyton only plays half the game, not all.

Since86
08-04-2005, 11:06 AM
Brady always looks cooler and sharper in tight spots than Peyton does. That's got to count for something.

That usually happens when one player is going against the 2nd worst passing defense in the league, compared to the other going against the 3rd(?).

I'm sure Peyton looks the same way against the Colt D in practice. They don't strike fear in QBs, that's for sure.

mmpfm1
08-04-2005, 11:41 AM
i wonder what people would say in the patriots forum???????

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 11:53 AM
You can act a little more calm when you know that your defense will be there for you and make a stop or two when it is needed.


That usually happens when one player is going against the 2nd worst passing defense in the league, compared to the other going against the 3rd(?).


meh....maybe.

I think you have to give props to Brady for grace under pressure. Manning, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Since86
08-04-2005, 12:00 PM
meh....maybe.

I think you have to give props to Brady for grace under pressure. Manning, sometimes yes, sometimes no.


Shoud I give props to a team that scores a bunch on the Suns or the Pistons?

I'd look/feel a lot calmer playing against the Suns(Colts) defense, then I would against NE's(Det.) defense.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 12:24 PM
Shoud I give props to a team that scores a bunch on the Suns or the Pistons?

I'd look/feel a lot calmer playing against the Suns(Colts) defense, then I would against NE's(Det.) defense.
Agreed.


That doesn't change my opinion that Brady handles pressure extremely well in many different situations. Better than Payton has up to this point.

Since86
08-04-2005, 12:53 PM
Agreed.


That doesn't change my opinion that Brady handles pressure extremely well in many different situations. Better than Payton has up to this point.

Peyton's numbers in last year's playoff game weren't that bad, just everyone else was.

Here's Peyton's stat line.
PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
P.Manning 42 27 238 1/8 0 18 1 69.3

The rating is so low, because of the no tds and the interception. He completed 64.3% of his passes, and his career % is 63.5.

Here's Tom's.
PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
T.Brady 27 18 144 3/29 1 17 0 92.3

That's a 66.7% pass completion.

The difference in that game wasn't the first player behind the center, but the second.

RUSHING ATT YDS AVG LG TD
E.James 14 39 2.8 7 0
P.Manning 1 7 7.0 7 0

Total 15 46 3.1 7 0

RUSHING ATT YDS AVG LG TD
C.Dillon 23 144 6.3 42 0
K.Faulk 11 56 5.1 13 0
T.Brady 4 6 1.5 3 1
D.Branch 1 4 4.0 4 0

Total 39 210 5.4 42 1

NE outrushed them by 146yds.

Since86
08-04-2005, 01:04 PM
I've found his stats for 2003-04 playoff game against NE.

ATT COMP YDS LG TD INT Rating
47 23 237 32 1 4 35.5

That's a whopping 48.9% completion percentage. There's not a whole lot to say about the 4ints, except that Ty Law gave the single best DB production I've ever witnessed. He was amazing that game.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 02:00 PM
Oh come on!!!! It doesn't take anything away from Manning to admit that Brady is cool as hell under pressure!!!!

Maybe Manning would totally be Brady's equal in Brady's shoes, maybe not. We don't know. I love Manning and wouldn't trade him for Brady and I believe Manning is not just about stats and all the rest. But that said.....Brady has shown in many different situations that he's cool in the clutch. Do you really disagree with that?

BluBlood
08-04-2005, 02:09 PM
I totally agree that Brady is a clutch performer. He's a good quarterback.

But if I had a choice to build a franchise around either one, it would be Manning all the way.

Since86
08-04-2005, 02:21 PM
Oh come on!!!! It doesn't take anything away from Manning to admit that Brady is cool as hell under pressure!!!!

Maybe Manning would totally be Brady's equal in Brady's shoes, maybe not. We don't know. I love Manning and wouldn't trade him for Brady and I believe Manning is not just about stats and all the rest. But that said.....Brady has shown in many different situations that he's cool in the clutch. Do you really disagree with that?


He gets the job done, and that's all you can ask out of him. Is he the reason they win? Not even close. He gives his average performace, the one he does night in and night out. If he had his back against the wall, I don't know if he would be able to take over a game, because I've never had to see him do it.

The question was/is who is better. I was only showing that the myth on Peyton not performing during big games, is just that, a myth. Statistically he is the better QB, on a worse team overall.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 02:41 PM
If he had his back against the wall, I don't know if he would be able to take over a game, because I've never had to see him do it.
Well, gee whiz, now I don't have any specific examples, but heavens - hasn't the guy come through with good quality play in the clutch to say he's done this?


The question was/is who is better. I was only showing that the myth on Peyton not performing during big games, is just that, a myth. Statistically he is the better QB, on a worse team overall.
Fair enough. I agree with you.

Since86
08-04-2005, 02:47 PM
Well, gee whiz, now I don't have any specific examples, but heavens - hasn't the guy come through with good quality play in the clutch to say he's done this?

He's never gave a "WOW" performance. When the won in 2000(?) he didn't lead this spectacular drive to score. He drove them 40yds and they happened to have the most clutch kicker I've ever watched.

He's guided them, not led them. I just think he's an average QB, that has poise, on an exceptional team.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 03:34 PM
He's never gave a "WOW" performance. When the won in 2000(?) he didn't lead this spectacular drive to score. He drove them 40yds and they happened to have the most clutch kicker I've ever watched.

He's guided them, not led them. I just think he's an average QB, that has poise, on an exceptional team.
Uhhhhhhhh..... :chin:

I really can see where you're coming from here, and its not that I disagree.

You're right - he doesn't do the "WOW" performance like Peyton does. Again, I agree that Peyton is the more skilled, overall better quarterback.

I'm going to just stand my ground that Brady is a PROVEN performer in the clutch. Yeah, he's made a boo boo here and there (didn't he throw an interception against Miami or something last regular season in the closing moments?), bu overall he's STEADY in the clutch.

OK, steadyand solid in the clutch - would you agree with that?

Manning is unpredictable in the clutch - often looks great, sometimes you get the jumpy feet guy.

Since86
08-04-2005, 03:50 PM
Uhhhhhhhh..... :chin:

I really can see where you're coming from here, and its not that I disagree.

You're right - he doesn't do the "WOW" performance like Peyton does. Again, I agree that Peyton is the more skilled, overall better quarterback.

I'm going to just stand my ground that Brady is a PROVEN performer in the clutch. Yeah, he's made a boo boo here and there (didn't he throw an interception against Miami or something last regular season in the closing moments?), bu overall he's STEADY in the clutch.

OK, steadyand solid in the clutch - would you agree with that?

Manning is unpredictable in the clutch - often looks great, sometimes you get the jumpy feet guy.


Agreed.

I just really really dislike NE. There they're the Pistons of the NFL, for rivalry reasons and others.

After watching Belichick step in front of Harrison in '03 after an interception, to McGinnest playing hurt at the Dome, to just listening to Ty Law run his mouth it just got annoying to me. Then add in all the retards over at RATS, and you have one bitter young man. I want to like TB, because he doesn't give any reasons not to, but I just can't do it.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 04:02 PM
After watching Belichick step in front of Harrison in '03 after an interception, to McGinnest playing hurt at the Dome, to just listening to Ty Law run his mouth it just got annoying to me. Then add in all the retards over at RATS, and you have one bitter young man. I want to like TB, because he doesn't give any reasons not to, but I just can't do it.
Ugh. Don't remind me. Hey, I don't "LIKE" Brady either. :buddies:

young man? I thought you were the young lady in the avatar.

Since86
08-04-2005, 04:11 PM
Ugh. Don't remind me. Hey, I don't "LIKE" Brady either. :buddies:

young man? I thought you were the young lady in the avatar.

:laugh: No, that's my girlfriend of 3+yrs. She naps while I watch.

Lord Helmet
08-04-2005, 04:13 PM
Agreed.

I just really really dislike NE. There they're the Pistons of the NFL, for rivalry reasons and others.

After watching Belichick step in front of Harrison in '03 after an interception, to McGinnest playing hurt at the Dome, to just listening to Ty Law run his mouth it just got annoying to me. Then add in all the retards over at RATS, and you have one bitter young man. I want to like TB, because he doesn't give any reasons not to, but I just can't do it.
What excactly did Belichick do? I don't seem to remember it. Could you explain what happended there?

And, please no more talking about that game in the Dome. 4th and inches.....:suicide:

I was at the game, I witnessed the gore. I was right by the damn inzone.....:cry:

Yeah, McGinnest, good fair play there, buddy. :unimpress

Since86
08-04-2005, 04:19 PM
What excactly did Belichick do? I don't seem to remember it. Could you explain what happended there?

And, please no more talking about that game in the Dome. 4 and inches.....:suicide:

I was at the game, I witnessed the gore. I was right by the damn inzone.....:cry:

Yeah, McGinnest, good fair play there, buddy. :unimpress


It was during the playoffs in '03, during one of Peyton's 3ints. Law picked one off going down the sideline, Manning just underthrew the out route. Marvin turned outside(towards the Pat bench) to try to chase down Ty, and Bill just stepped out in front of him. On the replays it shows that he isn't moving out in front of the other players to watch him run, he did it specifically to get in Harrison's way. Dungy went NUTS on the sideline judge.

Vicious Tyrant
08-04-2005, 04:21 PM
I think I still have that saved on my computer at home. I'll check tonight - its worth watching.

Lord Helmet
08-04-2005, 04:22 PM
I think I still have that saved on my computer at home. I'll check tonight - its worth watching.
Ok, try to get that clip of Belichick being a *****.