Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • #1

    11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...magic&track=rss


    The Orlando Magic were stunned today to hear the decision by first round draft pick Fran Vazquez that he will play this season in Europe instead of coming to the NBA. So was his agent.

    Vazquez, a 6-10 power forward from Spain, was expected to play a significant role as a rookie this season, yet he suddenly decided he wasn't ready for the rigors of the NBA.

    "I've said `no,' because I was afraid to adapt to the American way of life, and of not giving the level they have asked,'' Vazquez told the Spanish newspaper Malaga hoy today. "I'm not a coward, but I prefer to stay in Spain, progress, and who knows? Maybe jump to the NBA in a few years.''

    The Magic made Vazquez, 22, the No. 11 pick in the NBA Draft in June, believing his skill level was far superior to other more well-known college players like Sean May, Danny Granger and Antoine Wright, all taken behind him.

    "Yes, we're a little surprised,'' said Dave Twardzik, Magic co-general manager who had seen Vazquez play six different times in Europe. "The message we've been getting all along -- before the draft, after the draft -- was that he was excited about playing here. He said it was his dream to play in the NBA. I don't know (what changed his mind).''

    As of this evening, the Magic had not spoken personally to Vazquez, but only to his European agent, Jose Cobelo. They had been in almost daily dialogue with either Cobelo in Spain, or his American-based partner Marc Cornstein.

    Cornstein didn't return phone messages today, but he issued a statement to the media.

    "I was shocked and dismayed to read over the internet that Fran is reconsidering his earlier decision to join the Orlando Magic. All my prior discussions were that he was excited to fullfill his dream of playing in the NBA,'' Cornstein said in his statement.

    From the time they drafted Vazquez, the Magic said they were certain there would be no problem signing him.

    "I ask for the Magic to understand my decision,'' Vazquez said today. "I apologize to them. I know they will be upset because I've had much time to make this decision. Everyone thought I was going (to the NBA), but I was still thinking about it.''

    Even though Vazquez said he isn't coming this season, the Magic will retain his NBA rights indefinitely. And it's not uncommon for NBA teams to draft an international player, and then wait two or three years before he arrives.

    Manu Ginobili, for example, was drafted by the NBA champion San Antonio Spurs in 1999, but he didn't play his first season until three years later. However, the Magic did expect Vazquez immediately. And they could have used him.

    When he came to Orlando the day after the draft, Vazquez looked excited about coming, but in awe of his surroundings at the RDV Sportpsplex. When shown the Magic's locker room, he pulled out his camera and started taking pictures of Grant Hill's dressing stall. He also talked about living his dream of playing in the NBA.

    "When you draft an international player, something like this is always possible. We talked about it before the draft,'' Twardzik said. "It's something he has to figure out now, if it's what he wants to do.''

    The Magic expected to sign Vazquez shortly after the league and the players union formalized their new collective bargaining agreement, which is now expected to happen by the first of next week. Under the already agreed upon salary scale, Vazquez was slated to sign a fully-guaranteed contract worth more than $5 million over three years.

    He did have a buyout clause from his previous contract in Spain that would have cost an estimated $650,000, although almost all of it was going to be paid by the Magic.

    Because they hadn't talked to him recently, the Magic have not given up hope completely in signing him. If he stays in Europe, it will alter some of their plans for free agency. Even without Vazquez, they still have 13 players with guaranteed contracts (including free agent guard Keyon Dooling, who has agreed to a contract pending the new CBA).

    It does leave them with only four power players -- Dwight Howard, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato and Mario Kasun -- and a significant need to add at least one more center/power forward.

    His absence, coupled with their lack of flexibility this summer under the salary cap, will hurt them from an image standpoint. They are still hurting from the trade last season of Cuttino Mobley in exchange for Doug Christie, who hardly played because of a previous injury then demanded a trade. They could have benefited from Vazquez international style of play.

    They had not planned on re-signing free agent Andrew DeClercq, but that could change now. They have little to offer other free agents, less than half the $5.1 million middle-class exception which will be split with Dooling.

    "Absolutely, we would have liked to have him this season,'' Twardzik said. "But if he stays there, he'll be playing with the best competition outside the NBA. When we do get him, he'll be a little stronger, a little more mature and his game a little more polished.''
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

    Similar occurrence just happened to the Raptors with Roko Ukic.

    My way of thinking is, if you're going to enter yourself as ELIGIBLE in the draft, then you better be ELIGIBLE to play.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

      Yep, that's crazy. Well, Orlando needed it's own Frederick Weiss. Stupid idiots.
      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

        Yeah, I saw that on hoopsworld and just about guffawed. How can you not determine with damn near certainty that the guy will be on your roster next year when you've had as much disappointment as the Magic have the last few years and you're drafting that high? Did they not also refuse to rehire one of their assistant coaches who tutored Dwight Howard last year? This is how you lose potential stars when their rookie deals expire. This is almost tantamount to Michelin not making sure their tires worked as supplier to over half the F1 teams at the US Grand Prix. I'm glad my parents made me do my homework. The Magic should not be allowed to watch TV for a while now.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

          They should have taken The Lone Granger...
          You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

            It was Clifford Ray who the Magic decided not to retain, despite his positive influence on Howard:
            http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...21/-1/archives
            Hill decided not to retain assistant coach Clifford Ray, who served as Howard's personal tutor last season. And Howard doesn't sound too enamored with the thought of possibly moving to center, a switch that he feels would stifle his athleticism and limit his multi-dimensional skills.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

              thats ****ED, don't they have contracts in the league that says if you get drafted your Property of the team that drafted you... thats insane... but I suppose it is kinda similair to the Steve Francis drafting in a different way

              Unreal, that pick was allready average and now Orlando will be remember for the worst pick in 05 beating out * Gulp* the raptors.... for now...

              Unreal... it's not like Manu was a lottery pick so you can't really compare the two, this was a no 11 draft pick, hell they should have taken Green !! or Granger or ME !!
              Ya Think Ya Used Enough Dynamite there Butch...

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                I'm personally glad that Fran did this, I think the Magic deserves it. For one I sitll think it was really stupid to draft this guy, he seems imature but of course the reports I heard very well could be wrong. Anways the Magic kind of stabbed Dwright and Clifford Ray in the back by not retaining Clifford Ray IMO. Cliff did a excellant job, not just with Dwright but with that ball club as a whole. The season before Cliff got there they were what like 25 in the league rebounding catagorey and with Cliff they jumped to top 5 last season.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                  It's just giving fodder for a Dick Vital rant.
                  "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                  "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                    Originally posted by pacertom
                    It does leave them with only four power players -- Dwight Howard, Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato and Mario Kasun -- and a significant need to add at least one more center/power forward.
                    Croshere for Christie! You know you wanna!
                    This space for rent.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                      Originally posted by Anthem
                      Croshere for Christie! You know you wanna!
                      they said power player

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                        I ain't sayin' a word until I see Sara's sig on a Pacer contract. I don't wanna ceate no bad karma around here!
                        Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                          Originally posted by Kegboy
                          Yep, that's crazy. Well, Orlando needed it's own Frederick Weiss. Stupid idiots.
                          and the magic keep fallllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiingggggggggg....
                          St Louis Magic anyone?
                          "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                            i cant help but wonder if they knew this was going to happen, then they dont sign dooling to the contract...

                            and considering they havent actually signed the contract, wonder if they would pull a carlos boozer on dooling..

                            that being said....orlando gets everything that comes their way....ive thought for many, many years they are a bonehead organization with a bonehead owner....to me they rival the raptors for being the most inept management in the league......difference is orlando has been that way from day 1....toronto has had their moments, albeit few and far between......

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: 11th pick in the draft stiffs Orlando, stays abroad

                              Originally posted by Anthem
                              Croshere for Christie! You know you wanna!
                              you don't want christie...or his wife
                              "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                              Working...
                              X