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View Full Version : How many games will the Pistons win next year?



foretaz
07-20-2005, 11:02 PM
the pistons won 54 games the last 2 years with larry brown as coach....

they won 50 games the previous 2 years with carlisle as coach.....

2 of the best coaches.....GONE....

so how many games will they win with FLIP....

dipperdunk
07-20-2005, 11:55 PM
Flip's teams in Minny...

1999- 50 wins
2000- 47 wins
2001- 50 wins
2002- 51 wins
2003- 58 wins

That was against a tough Western Conference that was stacked. The Pistons team he is taking over is clearly more talented than those Minny teams he coached. Barring major injuries they should easily win 50 games. Detroit is one of only a handful of teams in the league without one weak spot in their starting 5. All 5 of their starters are in the top 15 in the league at their respective positions and most of them are probably in the top 10 at their positions.

Flip is a downgrade from Brown but I don't think it will effect them in the regular season the postseason might be a different story.

KING JAMES
07-20-2005, 11:59 PM
52

NorCal_Pacerfan
07-21-2005, 12:01 AM
Jesus dude - is your banner big enough? :-o


-- I voted 49...

Kstat
07-21-2005, 12:01 AM
Flip is a downgrade from Brown but I don't think it will effect them in the regular season the postseason might be a different story.
I think most people would agree to that. Flip has to prove that he can lead a team in the playoffs. However, strategy CERTAINLY one of his weaknesses. He's a very bright coach.

I'll take a shot in the dark and say 54. We won't have the hall of fame coach, but we also won't have gar heard for 1/4 of the season either, so it'll even out.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 12:02 AM
Jesus dude - is your banner big enough?

If I were him, I'd be excited too.

sweabs
07-21-2005, 12:06 AM
If I were him, I'd be excited too.

No kidding, eh?

Just looking at that banner - they have a nice set-up there. How everyone blends will be a different story, but I don't see it being a problem. They're definitely going to be in the top 4 in the East. They have a lot of guys who scare me.

Los Angeles
07-21-2005, 12:10 AM
HAHAHA - Someone voted for the 25 bracket!

I don't know which to go for, 20 or 65.

Hmmmmm....

Hicks
07-21-2005, 12:11 AM
This would have been more interesting if the votes were made public.

I picked 50-54. What the hell, I'll toss this out too: They'll lose in the ECF... to us.

Will Galen
07-21-2005, 12:15 AM
the pistons won 54 games the last 2 years with larry brown as coach....

they won 50 games the previous 2 years with carlisle as coach.....

2 of the best coaches.....GONE....

so how many games will they win with FLIP....


When you make a poll please make it so people can see the way everyone voted. There's a box that you can check.

I voted for less than 50.

PacerNthaDesert
07-21-2005, 12:19 AM
I look for Detroit to win around 60. Flip is a regular season coach more so than a playoff coach while LB was the opposite.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 12:23 AM
I really wouldn't want to win 60 games. I'll settle for the 54+ and a top-2 record in the east.

Then again, home court in the finals would have been nice last year.....

PacerNthaDesert
07-21-2005, 12:26 AM
I see I'm the only voter in the "60 or more" range. :blush:

foretaz
07-21-2005, 12:27 AM
I really wouldn't want to win 60 games. I'll settle for the 54+ and a top-2 record in the east.

Then again, home court in the finals would have been nice last year.....

u have nothing to worry about....they won 60 games one time....this year wont be the second

Jermaniac
07-21-2005, 12:31 AM
49

Young
07-21-2005, 12:36 AM
I think the Pistons will win anywhere from 50-55 wins.

The better question is, how far will they go in the playoffs?

PacerNthaDesert
07-21-2005, 12:39 AM
I think the Pistons will win anywhere from 50-60 wins.

The better question is, how far will they go in the playoffs?

That is the better question and I'm pretty certain they will be in the Eastern Conference finals where they will lose to the Pacers because finally the Pacers will be healthy. It will be sweet to watch Sheed get beat up too on a side note. :censored:

foretaz
07-21-2005, 12:48 AM
That is the better question and I'm pretty certain they will be in the Eastern Conference finals where they will lose to the Pacers because finally the Pacers will be healthy. It will be sweet to watch Sheed get beat up too on a side note. :censored:

i seriously do not believe they will reach the ECF....and i think they are in for a lot more turmoil this year that one might expect....

PacerNthaDesert
07-21-2005, 12:53 AM
i seriously do not believe they will reach the ECF....and i think they are in for a lot more turmoil this year that one might expect....


I see it your way too but they still have all their talented and playoff tested players on the roster. As long as they stay healthy they probably can't finish outside the top 3 in the conference but with the East emerging I could also see them not making it either. I just thought the Pistons underachieved last season and it won't happen again but I guess with Flip they are a wildcard.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:05 AM
I see it your way too but they still have all their talented and playoff tested players on the roster. As long as they stay healthy they probably can't finish outside the top 3 in the conference but with the East emerging I could also see them not making it either. I just thought the Pistons underachieved last season and it won't happen again but I guess with Flip they are a wildcard.

just remember something....rasheed wallace....

rasheed is a ticking time bomb....hes had the ultimate coach for him the last 2 years...larry brown and his nc ties kept rasheed in check as much as possible....meaning..u saw a lot more techs last year as the honeymoon was over...however the more dramatic episodes were not there primarily due to larrys presence....that will be gone...and we will be another season removed from the honeymoon....sheed will be more of a problem....remember ben in the playoffs??? 'guys need to shut up and play?'....theyre gonna have less success which will make for added stress....and sheed doesnt deal well with that...which means only more problems...

and i also believe their luck where injuries and the like are concerned will not hold out...

and lastly....i just flat out dont think flip is a good coach....ive made it known what a huge kg fan i am...so i make it a point to keep an eye on things from time to time...and im sorry....i dont see it...at all...

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:12 AM
Sheed has long since proven to me that he's intersted in winning before anything. If he were going to blow up, it would have been last year, during the 350 off-court distractions we had.

Oddly enough, Sheed has been the one that's kept the team TOGETHER. He's grown up, it seems.

Nothing in Sheed's tenure in Detroit suggests that he'll suddenly go back to his younger days. All of those players play hard for each other. They didn't just play hard because of Brown. Each guy on that team plays hard because they know the guy next to him is playing his *** off also.

Of course, people are free to believe what they want. Nothing is ever really proven until May at the earliest.

There isn't a team in the NBA without question marks. I don't think the Pistons, as they are now, have any more questions than most other teams.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:19 AM
Sheed has long since proven to me that he's intersted in winning before anything. If he were going to blow up, it would have been last year, during the 350 off-court distractions we had.

Oddly enough, Sheed has been the one that's kept the team TOGETHER. He's grown up, it seems.

Nothing in Sheed's tenure in Detroit suggests that he'll suddenly go back to his younger days. All of those players play hard for each other. They didn't just play hard because of Brown.

i dont question sheeds desire to win...in fact thats what is at the root of some of his problems...

sheeds outbursts were much more present last year than the honeymoon season the year before...its not about him going back to being younger...

he is what he is...i love his game....but hes a very emotional player on the court....and he can be overly expressive when reacting to things hes not in agreement with....

it has nothing to do with playing hard....and everything to do with being a volcano...IMHO

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:21 AM
being a volcano and being a problem are two different things. Sheed led the league in techs last year, but I believe he only got ejected one time. He's said over and over again that he's never going to let himself get ejected and hurt his team. He at least has shown that he has an emergency brake on his temper.

I'm not going to lie and say I don't have a problem with it, but Sheed is Sheed. You take the good and the bad with him, and the good far outweighs the bad.

Hicks
07-21-2005, 01:25 AM
I'm not going to lie and say I don't have a problem with it, but Sheed is Sheed. You take the good and the bad with him, and the good far outweighs the bad.

Swap Kstat with Unclebuck and Sheed with Ron, and I've read this before.....

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:27 AM
being a volcano and being a problem are two different things. Sheed led the league in techs last year, but I believe he only got ejected one time. He's said over and over again that he's never going to let himself get ejected and hurt his team. He at least has shown that he has an emergency brake on his temper.

sheed said the same things in portland.....

in many ways its like an instant replay....

each year gets worse....the techs rise...the ejections rise...the outburst rise....

as ive said....he is what he is...

i dont even dislike the guy, despite his theatrics...cause i know its sincere...but it doesnt change what it is and how it happens....

in portland it started out with a few techs..and then a few more....and he said hed work on it....and this...and that....and more and more, they became an issue and a distraction...

sheed cant help himself....he is who he is....u take the good with the bad...just like with everyone else...

thing is...you have some very no-nonsense guys on that team....and sooner or later it really gets to those guys....like i said...uve seen the beginning in the playoffs....whether its his guarantees or his talking....those things take a tolll....they get old after a while....guys get tired of making excuses...

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:34 AM
sheed said the same things in portland.....

in many ways its like an instant replay....

each year gets worse....the techs rise...the ejections rise...the outburst rise....

as ive said....he is what he is...

i dont even dislike the guy, despite his theatrics...cause i know its sincere...but it doesnt change what it is and how it happens....

in portland it started out with a few techs..and then a few more....and he said hed work on it....and this...and that....and more and more, they became an issue and a distraction...

sheed cant help himself....he is who he is....u take the good with the bad...just like with everyone else...

thing is...you have some very no-nonsense guys on that team....and sooner or later it really gets to those guys....like i said...uve seen the beginning in the playoffs....whether its his guarantees or his talking....those things take a tolll....they get old after a while....guys get tired of making excuses...


In Portland he didn't have a quality supporting cast and chemistry like he had here.

In Portland he never won a championship.

In Portland he wasn't 30 years older and wiser.

In Portland he didn't have the roster stability, and wasn't surrounded with good people.

Frankly, so long as a guy wants to win before anything, and is willing to sacrifice for the team, I'll take him on my team. If Sheed's techs come out of wanting to win too much, i'll take that any day a week over 20 vince carters that don't seem to give a damn.

As I said, very few players in the NBA can do what Sheed does, and play as well in the team concept as he does. It's unrealistic to expect EVERYTHING to be peachy.

Joe Dumars once made the comment that "You can't win in the NBA without a knucklehead. If you want a team of choir boys, you're in the wrong league. However, you also can't have two on the same team." THis was a long time before he traded for Rasheed.



thing is...you have some very no-nonsense guys on that team....and sooner or later it really gets to those guys....like i said...uve seen the beginning in the playoffs....whether its his guarantees or his talking....those things take a tolll....they get old after a while....guys get tired of making excuses...

First, Rasheed doesn't make those guarentees flippantly. He does it as a tactic to fire up his team, and they do it, because to a man they all respect him, and they have his back. He only does it once a year, but when he does, they respond. I really don't think they resent it, because Rasheed more than carries his own weight.... As long as he only does it once a year, I think they relish the challenge.

As for his constant talking, his teamates deal with it because every one of them has said that Rasheed was the guy that made them a contender. Ben, Rip, Billups and Prince have ALL said that Rasheed is the most talented player on the team, and they wouldn't have won without him. The funny thing is, Rasheed himself refuses to hear any of it.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:43 AM
In Portland he didn't have a quality supporting cast and chemistry like he had here.

In Portland he never won a championship.

In Portland he wasn't 30 years older and wiser.

In Portland he didn't have the roster stability, and wasn't surrounded with good people.

Frankly, so long as a guy wants to win before anything, and is willing to sacrifice for the team, I'll take him on my team. If Sheed's techs come out of wanting to win too much, i'll take that any day a week over 20 vince carters that don't seem to give a damn.

As I said, very few players in the NBA can do what Sheed does, and play as well in the team concept as he does. It's unrealistic to expect EVERYTHING to be peachy.

Joe Dumars once made the comment that "You can't win in the NBA without a knucklehead. If you want a team of choir boys, you're in the wrong league. However, you also can't have two on the same team." THis was a long time before he traded for Rasheed.

i believe u are badly mistaken regarding the portland roster....badly mistaken.....i was there...sheed was the root of the problems in portland....and he had a very talented team around him.....very talented...that team shouldve won at least one title...and it wouldnt be unfair to say he was the major reason why they didnt....

ive said it...and i will continue to say it....hes a great player...i agree he does for a team what few others can do...theres no denying it...

but that also holds true for a few negative things as well...bringing him in when they did was absolutely the best possible circumstance for him....when they did it, i knew we were in serious trouble....

but i also know how it goes with sheed....and hes right on schedule....and age doesnt appear to ever have been the issue....1st year title...2nd year lose in finals...how far down the progression falls remains to be seen...but with larry out of the equation-it good get a bit ugly at times...

its who he is, not how old he is

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:46 AM
As for his constant talking, his teamates deal with it because every one of them has said that Rasheed was the guy that made them a contender. Ben, Rip, Billups and Prince have ALL said that Rasheed is the most talented player on the team, and they wouldn't have won without him. The funny thing is, Rasheed himself refuses to hear any of it.

his teammates did and said the exact same things in portland...

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:46 AM
...that team shouldve won at least one title...and it wouldnt be unfair to say he was the major reason why they didnt....

If you saw that team then you know that chemistry wasn't the reason they didn't get to the finals in 2000. They choked, plain and simple. Rasheed included. After that, Pippen Sabonis and Smith got old FAST, and they made the brilliant move in trading JO for Dale, who would be great on any other team except thet made him play vs Shaq.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:47 AM
his teammates did and said the exact same things in portland...

And as I recall, his ex-teamates in Portland STILL liked him as a teamate when he left.

Rasheed's problem in portland was that he didn't want to be a #1 guy, and they forced him into that role. He wasn't what they wanted him to be, and all his little tantrums began to get overblown, because he wasn't putting up all-NBA numbers on the floor like everybody expected.

The fans in Portland probably didn't like him, because he never produced up to his ridiculous contract, and he didn't deliver. But Sheed was simply never that kind of player. In addition, Sabonis, Pippen and Steve Smith were all on their last legs, and then they traded Smith for Anderson, who has no legs at all.

And if that wasn't enough, they signed the nannny stopper, and drafted the gun-runner and the dog-fighter. Rasheed did not make those deals.

It's also EXTREMELY unfair to say the Pistons didn't beat San Antonio BECAUSE of Rasheed Wallace "regressing on schedule." Seriously, that's not right.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:57 AM
And as I recall, his ex-teamates in Portland STILL liked him as a teamate when he left.

Rasheed's problem in portland was that he didn't want to be a #1 guy, and they forced him into that role. He wasn't what they wanted him to be, and all his little tantrums began to get overblown.

The fans in Portland probably didn't like him, because he never produced up to his ridiculous contract, and he didn't deliver. But Sheed was simply never that kind of player.

It's also EXTREMELY unfair to say the Pistons didn't beat San Antonio BECAUSE of Rasheed Wallace "regressing on schedule." Seriously, that's not right.

sheed will never be disliked by his teammates...noone said he was a bad guy...just the opposite....thats why they try to find a way to be supportive of him, despite it....though u could make a case for that just serving as an enabler...

the fans in portland didnt like him for one pretty simple reason....they got tired of the circus act...

im not saying the pistons loss was rasheeds fault....only noting there is a pattern that seems to follow him around a bit...

as far as not being the number one option....that has been an issue for him.....hes, for whatever reason, not mentally suited for the role...that being the case, i couldve swore ur descriptions regarding how he would flourish with flip as coach sounded eerily like him being something that resembles the number one option....

Kstat
07-21-2005, 02:08 AM
as far as not being the number one option....that has been an issue for him.....hes, for whatever reason, not mentally suited for the role...that being the case, i couldve swore ur descriptions regarding how he would flourish with flip as coach sounded eerily like him being something that resembles the number one option....

No, I clearly stated that Chauncey would be the new go-to guy. I just said that Sheed would be much more comfortable in the KG role at the high post, where he can utilize his range. And if you recall, KG was never the go-to guy in Minnesota either.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 02:17 AM
No, I clearly stated that Chauncey would be the new go-to guy. I just said that Sheed would be much more comfortable in the KG role at the high post, where he can utilize his range. And if you recall, KG was never the go-to guy in Minnesota either.


not sure i can agree with that...but either way....

if he wasnt....lemme see...

mvp...one of the best players on the planet...and hes not ur go to guy....

say hello to ur new coach....;)

u still havent responded to my one time only trade offer....pollard for darko

Kstat
07-21-2005, 02:29 AM
not sure i can agree with that...but either way....

if he wasnt....lemme see...

mvp...one of the best players on the planet...and hes not ur go to guy....

say hello to ur new coach....;)

u still havent responded to my one time only trade offer....pollard for darko

What I should have said was, KG isn't comfortable being the go-to guy, much like Rasheed. KG's obviously better, but it's the same mentality.

Obviously, KG was the go-to guy until Sam Cassell came along, and KG was more than willing to let him take the big shots.

And why do you seriously want an answer on Pollard/Darko? Of course I'd rather have Darko.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 02:39 AM
What I should have said was, KG isn't comfortable being the go-to guy, much like Rasheed. KG's obviously better, but it's the same mentality.

Obviously, KG was the go-to guy until Sam Cassell came along, and KG was more than willing to let him take the big shots.

And why do you seriously want an answer on Pollard/Darko? Of course I'd rather have Darko.

just trying to save u from a little turmoil next year....pollard is content to sit on the bench, suck, and collect a check...unlike darko whos itchin to play....with his potential for minutes not great...and u dont seem to be to positive about his outlook...and with max now in the fold....it might save u the added grief of having an unhappy darko on ur hands....u know...one less distraction?

besides....it would give ben a bit of a rest when u guys play shaq....maybe if u had pollard last year, ben wouldnt have been so wore out from bangin with shaq that he was out of sorts the first couple games against the spurs

Kstat
07-21-2005, 02:52 AM
just trying to save u from a little turmoil next year....pollard is content to sit on the bench, suck, and collect a check...unlike darko whos itchin to play....with his potential for minutes not great...and u dont seem to be to positive about his outlook...and with max now in the fold....it might save u the added grief of having an unhappy darko on ur hands....u know...one less distraction?

besides....it would give ben a bit of a rest when u guys play shaq....maybe if u had pollard last year, ben wouldnt have been so wore out from bangin with shaq that he was out of sorts the first couple games against the spurs

I'm probably the biggest Darko supporter there is, but that doesn't stop me from being realistic.

Darko is only unhappy if he's nailed to the bench, and even in that case, we can trade him for something better than pollard.

All that said, he WILL be in the rotation this year. I'm sure Joe made that a condition of Flip's employment. EVen if its only 7 minutes a game, that's all Darko asked for to begin with. He said he's willing to play a small role, he just wants a role.

BTW, Darko is bigger than Pollard. If we just want a big body to throw at Shaq, Darko can do just as well as Pollard.

As for Maxiell, there is talk Maxiell is going to be asked to play SF like Corliss. Nobody knows where he'll play yet. I love the kid, but Darko needs to get a chance first.

You're also forgetting we've had Pollard once already, and since then he's developed a really bad back. I wouldn't take him back for free.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 03:30 AM
I'm probably the biggest Darko supporter there is, but that doesn't stop me from being realistic.

Darko is only unhappy if he's nailed to the bench, and even in that case, we can trade him for something better than pollard.

All that said, he WILL be in the rotation this year. I'm sure Joe made that a condition of Flip's employment. EVen if its only 7 minutes a game, that's all Darko asked for to begin with. He said he's willing to play a small role, he just wants a role.

BTW, Darko is bigger than Pollard. If we just want a big body to throw at Shaq, Darko can do just as well as Pollard.

As for Maxiell, there is talk Maxiell is going to be asked to play SF like Corliss. Nobody knows where he'll play yet. I love the kid, but Darko needs to get a chance first.

You're also forgetting we've had Pollard once already, and since then he's developed a really bad back. I wouldn't take him back for free.

ok...well...just trying to help...

but if u change ur mind...

feel free to check back....who knows...we might consider still doing the pollard deal if hes still around...

if not...maybe we would consider giving u croshere instead....though we would have to have something more than just darko....u might have to throw lindsey in as well....;)

Kstat
07-21-2005, 03:42 AM
we actually offered Cro a contract back in the day. Indiana outbid us by about $10 million, and I thought OUR offer was a bit high. No need for him now.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 02:09 PM
damn...i wish id made this poll public....

id love to know who the 5 guys are that dont think the pistons will win 30 games....i love it....

Diamond Dave
07-21-2005, 02:25 PM
Swap Kstat with Unclebuck and Sheed with Ron, and I've read this before.....

I don't know if I'd take that deal. KStat and UB are both headcases, but KStat has more potential. UB also has a bigger contract after his MVP season a few years ago. But then again UB did win MVP so he has proven he is a winner.

Obviously Sheed and Ron have similar problems, but Ron is younger and has a better contract. However Sheed is a proven winner so I don't know what I'd do.

But throw in fortaz for Darko and Shags and its a done deal in my eyes.

:D

OnlyPacersLeft
07-21-2005, 02:48 PM
the real question is...who cares?

Hicks
07-21-2005, 03:22 PM
the real question is...who cares?

44 people and counting, apparently.

PacerNthaDesert
07-21-2005, 03:32 PM
I always care about how our rivals do, of course I care about what most of the teams do since I'm in love with the NBA. :blush:

Gamble
07-21-2005, 05:03 PM
Pistons will drop off this year. They underachieved last year and they are
sure to do it agian this year, especially with a less talented less defensive minded
coach. The fact is the only way they win the close games is their defense and
their coach was the master mind and their motor. I see a team that goes 49 to
39 this season. Go Fort wayne Pistons.

SoupIsGood
07-21-2005, 07:06 PM
This would have been more interesting if the votes were made public.

I picked 50-54. What the hell, I'll toss this out too: They'll lose in the ECF... to us.

I agree with what Hicks(007?) said, except I'm not sure it will be us that beats them.

They have been to the finals twice in a row now, I don't think they will get back this next year.

cramerica
07-21-2005, 07:57 PM
Is there a way to make it mandatory for all votes to be made public from now on?

foretaz
07-21-2005, 08:20 PM
it was my fault...i really wanted this to be a public poll...but i screwed up...i asked hicks if he could change it....but unfortunately it cant be changed once its done.... :cry: