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Kstat
07-20-2005, 05:57 PM
http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0507/20/pisto-254163.htm

Pistons to name Saunders coach on Thursday

By By Rob Parker / The Detroit News
Associated Press

Flip Saunders, 50, is known around the NBA as a players' coach and one who stresses defense.

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AUBURN HILLS -- Flip Saunders will be named the new Pistons coach at a news conference Thursday at The Palace, The Detroit News has learned.

Saunders, who replaces Larry Brown, will sign a four-year contract worth between $4 million and $5 million per season, a Pistons source confirmed Wednesday.

Saunders was considered the first choice to replace Brown, who was fired Tuesday.

Saunders, 50, coached the Minnesota Timberwolves for the past 961/27 years before being fired last season. His went 411-326 with the Timberwolves.

Despite Saunders' success during the regular season, his teams got past the first round of the playoffs only once. His playoff record with Minnesota was 17-30.

In his two seasons with the Pistons, Brown won the title in 2004 and led the team to the seventh game of the NBA Finals this season.

indygeezer
07-20-2005, 05:59 PM
At this point, I'm real glad Mike Brown wasn't available.


Now...to be honest, I'm really sick of hearing about Larry Brown.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 06:00 PM
Hang on, will this signing be delayed?

:confused:

Natston
07-20-2005, 06:06 PM
Hang on, will this signing be delayed?

:confused:

I don't think so since the CBA was for players...

FiestyFosterFanatic
07-20-2005, 06:27 PM
I think this is a horrible move for the Pistons. Saunders is really not that good of a coach IMO, he has Kevin Garnett and he could only get out of the first round of the playoffs ONE time. And they had talent on those teams.

Shade
07-20-2005, 10:40 PM
I think this is a horrible move for the Pistons. Saunders is really not that good of a coach IMO, he has Kevin Garnett and he could only get out of the first round of the playoffs ONE time. And they had talent on those teams.

Who's available that's any better? :shrug:

Bball
07-20-2005, 10:42 PM
Who's available that's any better? :shrug:

How about a combo of Laimbeer and Isiah? Co- head coaches. Or one could be the associate head coach.

I like it!

-Bball

Young
07-20-2005, 11:22 PM
Who's available that's any better? :shrug:

I can't say there is.

I don't think that Flip is exactly the right coach for them though. He isn't a bad coach by any means, i'm not trying to say that.

I just think that they need a coach who will strongly insist on defense. I think that a team reflects there coach's philosophy, and I don't know that Flip really "specializes in defense". It might sound stupid to say the Pistons need a defense type coach, but like I said the team usually reflects the coaches philosophy most of the time.

Kstat
07-20-2005, 11:49 PM
I think I'll spend my 8,000th post on why Flip has always been one of my favorite coaches in the NBA, and he'll be a good fit here.

1. He utilizes a high-post offense. Much as I love Larry Brown, he used a low-post offense, which is unfit for %90 of our roster. That's no knock on Larry, that's what he coaches, and he made it work. That's why he's a hall of famer.

Most notibly, Rasheed will have a his best year as a Piston in this offense. He can get the ball at the elbow, which is where he likes it most.

Laugh all you want, but Darko is taylor-made for the high-post offense. If he can't play in this offense, then I'll admit that he can't play at all, period. This is Darko's make-or-break year. I don't blame you guys for giving up on Darko, but I think this will be a blessing for him. the high-post favors big man who can pass, and that's by far Darko's most developed asset right now.

Billups will also have a lot of fun, because the high-post allows guards to post up more freely, because the big men space out much better. Billups will have a lot more post up opportunities, and will be able to better take advantage of smaller PGs.

TO BE FAIR, I think that Rip's role in the offense will lessen, which could be good or bad. His ballhandling opportunities will definately go down, but his spot-up opportunities will go up. Larry made Rip the focul point last year. This year, Flip will likely make Chauncey the main go-to guy offensively. Rip will still get his touches, but he won't be our #1 option anymore, except against team where he has an obvious edge against.

2. He's a player's coach. This is where I liken him to Rick Carlisle. He lets his players take the spotlight, and he knows when to pull back and let his guys enjoy the game. You don't last in the same place for 9 seasons without getting along with your players.

3. He's a guy with a chip on his shoulder, which is a reason Joe Dumars said he likes him. He's a guy who has a losing playoff record, and he's going to have people saying that he can't lead a playoff team. Motivation is a powerful tool.

4. He lets his point guards dictate the game. As much as Billups will benefit from not needing to look over his shoulder after a missed three anymore, Arroyo will really benefit, because he's a Tinsely-type PG that you just need to let play his game, and not try to mold him into Eric Snow.

Defensively, I'll tell you guys the same thing you told me when Carlisle came to the Pacers: A good coach adjusts to his talent. I don't think Flip will try anything differently than Brown, defensively.

5. As Joe mentioned easiler, "whomever coaches this team will be stepping into a pressurized situation." Flip knows that, and yet he really went out of his way to be coach of the Pistons. That tells me that FLip is very confident he can win here. Flip also didn't have great talent in Minnesota. He had KG and 11 stpechildren %90 of the time. He's going to have a lot more at his disposal this time, and he knows that if he loses, he won't last 9 years, because his GM won't give him that excuse. I respect Flip for ASKING to be thrown into the fire, when he could have coached Milwaukee for (i think) less money, and CERTAINLY more job security.

By the way, I realize NOBODY will actually take the time to read all of this crap. I wrote it so I can fall back on this next season to see how right/wrong I was. And before you jump on me, remember of all the available coaches, Flip has been the guy I've wanted all along since the offseason started.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 11:56 PM
or maybe hes just smart enuff to go where there is the most talent....lets see, he rode kgs coattails forever....

and with many, many jobs available this summer he waits for the one with the best talent and a team that has been to the finals the last two years...

well he may be dumb, but hes definitely not stupid....he definitely knows how to pick his spots...

kerosene
07-21-2005, 12:04 AM
Good post kstat. A bit optimistic methinks but I see where you're coming from and the reason for a majority of the optimism. I don't think Flip was hired as from a "he's the best guy left" position either; you don't sign on to pay a guy 20-25 M if you think he's going to fail (unless you're the guy offering Bender an extension - hah I kid, I kid). The Pistons front office is pretty cunning and I'm sure they've been talking to Flip long before it was apparent that Brown was going to be gone (one way or another).

Kstat
07-21-2005, 12:10 AM
Good post kstat. A bit optimistic methinks but I see where you're coming from and the reason for a majority of the optimism. I don't think Flip was hired as from a "he's the best guy left" position either; you don't sign on to pay a guy 20-25 M if you think he's going to fail (unless you're the guy offering Bender an extension - hah I kid, I kid). The Pistons front office is pretty cunning and I'm sure they've been talking to Flip long before it was apparent that Brown was going to be gone (one way or another).

My main basis is that we have ONE true low-post big man in Dice, and three high-post big men in Ben, Sheed and Darko. Maxiell looks like a guy that can play either, since he has range out to the elbow, but I hear they're thinking of moving him to SF, ala Corliss, so we'll see about him.

the high post utilizes two things: mid-range shooting and passing. Those are Sheed's main strengths offensively, and they seem to be Darko's ONLY strengths thusfar. Darko is an extremely good passer, a trait that was totally masked when he was sent in to post up down low.

Of course, the white Bender could come out and stink the court up, like he's done the last 2 years worth of garbage time. It's just an eduacted guess on my part. Flip's going to give Darko playing time this year, even if it's just 5-10 minutes a game. He can either sink or swim, because all his life preservers will be used up.

Cactus Jax
07-21-2005, 12:46 AM
Maxiel's role is going to be plastered on the bench.

You honestly think he's getting any play time? He'll jump right over Ben, Sheed, Dyess, and Darko and Campbell. Plus if he happens to get in the game, he's option #6 on the court.

My brother has been a Wolves fan forever so I saked him about Flip. He mainly siad that the post up (in close) game of the Pistons is going bye bye, and that Flip loves guys who can spot up and shoot the ball like Wally, and Hoiberg.

Rip will fit in this role well, and Chauncey will be a great success at PG. The Wolves have had overly great PG play over the years, and sadly most of those guys left the team. Prince will continue to be the intangible guy like Hassell was, and Sheed will try and fill that Garnett role of posting up high and shooting the open jumpers.

This leads to Ben Wallace...I think he's going back to the Rick Carlisle days of pretty much never touching the ball (except very early in games). Flip is one of those coaches that likes giving the center the ball early on to see if the guy is hot or not, then adapts to how that goes after a few shots. My brother hated it when Kandy would get the ball over and over again early on, and would still prove that he sucks.

I think you guys are definently going to keep Acker if Flip sees him for any peroid of time, he could be a Hoiberg like player. The Lindsay Hunter days are nearly over (Kstat will probably enjoy that), and Arroyo will get some playing time.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 12:46 AM
Um, AZ, Campbell retired months ago.


My brother has been a Wolves fan forever so I saked him about Flip. He mainly siad that the post up (in close) game of the Pistons is going bye bye, and that Flip loves guys who can spot up and shoot the ball like Wally, and Hoiberg.

Given that Chauncey is by a wide marign our most clutch player, that's endorsed by me %200.


The Lindsay Hunter days are nearly over (Kstat will probably enjoy that), and Arroyo will get some playing time.

To be clear. I don't hate Lindsey Hunter. I just hate him as a primary backup. Lindsey is the kind of guy that you feel bad about ripping on because he's probably one of the 5 coolest people ever to wear a Pistons jersey.

That said, next year will be his final season, he'll be 35, and even though I think he's a PREMIER defensive guard, he still belongs in the game ONLY when we're in a situation when we can take advantage of a shakey ballhandler (like Udrich). But Arroyo should be the primary backup.

skyfire
07-21-2005, 01:09 AM
Sheed seemed score effortlessly on the low block in the finals, especially early in the games, dropping lots of turnarounds over Duncan/Mohammed. The Pistons never seemed to go to him much later on tho...

Cactus Jax
07-21-2005, 01:22 AM
Oh...forgot about Campbell being retired but I figure my point is still made on Maxiel.

Sheed and Billups will be the big guns, while I think Rip will dip around 15-18 PPG, and Prince, and Ben will be the wild cards every game. McDyess should work out great off the bench as they got Eddie Griffin to make a solid contribution last year.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:24 AM
Sheed seemed score effortlessly on the low block in the finals, especially early in the games, dropping lots of turnarounds over Duncan/Mohammed. The Pistons never seemed to go to him much later on tho...


Sheed is only 230 lbs. He's not a very powerful player. He can only get beat up on that low block so many times before he has to float out. He has the moves to be on the low block, but not the body.

In the high post, I think he can use that turnaround just as effectively, without the wear and tear.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 01:27 AM
Oh...forgot about Campbell being retired but I figure my point is still made on Maxiel.

Sheed and Billups will be the big guns, while I think Rip will dip around 15-18 PPG, and Prince, and Ben will be the wild cards every game. McDyess should work out great off the bench as they got Eddie Griffin to make a solid contribution last year.

Well, as I said, they're thinking of making Maxiell into a huge SF instead of a smaller SF, so he could get time. Too early to tell, ut the kid IS a legit shot blocker and low-post scorer. He just needs to find a place to play.

I'm also holding out hope on Darko, but whatever minutes-production he might get is complete guesswork. I do know that this is the best opportunity he will ever get as a professional.

foretaz
07-21-2005, 01:37 AM
tell u what....we will give u a one time shot at this....

we will trade u scot pollard for darko....

among other benefits, u dont have to worry bout scot possibly kickin ben's fanny....;)

Unclebuck
07-21-2005, 08:58 AM
I read your entire post Kstat. And the funny thing was as I started reading it, I was thinking that Rip won't be the focus of the offense like he had been, and then I read that you agree.

I've heard that Flip has the thickest playbook in the NBA. One other thing to look for: Generally the T-Wolves were never very successful in the month of November, it took them a month or so to get it together, but usually by December they were on a roll. Yes they will run a high post offense, but that might not be a good thing. The T-Wolves were always one of the worst teams in the NBA in FT attempts, something Brown always gets his teams to do. Really in a lot of ways the Pistons will look more like the team they were under Carlisle,

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/0507/21/A01-255120.htm

It's official: Pistons pick Flip

Team gets third coach in 4 years; deal gives Saunders 4-year contract at $4 million-$5 million a season.

By Joanne C. Gerstner and Terry Foster / The Detroit News


LM Otero / Associated Press

Flip Saunders turned down a job offer and took his name out of the running for openings while seemingly waiting for this job.




Flip's timetable

How long will the fans give Flip Saunders to deliver another NBA championship to Auburn Hills?

One year
Two years
The onus is on the players, not the coach

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AUBURN HILLS -- For the third time in four years, the Pistons will be introducing a new coach.

Less than one day after firing Larry Brown, who led the team to the 2004 NBA title, the Pistons will name former Minnesota Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders as their new coach during a noon press conference at The Palace today.

Pistons President Joe Dumars said he began negotiations around 10:30 a.m. Wednesday, and the deal was hammered out six hours later. Dumars said Saunders was the Pistons' only choice to replace Brown.

Saunders, 50, will sign a four-year contract worth between $4 million and $5 million per season.

"He's proven in this league, and he's been in big games as a guy who has won 50-plus games for years," Dumars said on WDFN"s "Stoney and Wojo Show". "I like the fact that he's called those timeouts before, he's been in huge games. And he's been in the spotlight before because he had a premier marquee player (Kevin Garnett).

"I think he's in a position where he would feel like he has something to prove."

Saunders turned down a job offer from the Bucks, and also took his name out of the running for other openings while seemingly waiting for the Pistons job to open.

Saunders was fired as the Timberwolves coach in February after a 25-26 start.

He was 411-326 in 9 1/2 seasons. Saunders helped his team advance to the 2004 Western Conference after seven straight first-round playoff exits.

Neither Saunders nor his agent, Mark Termini, returned calls Wednesday.

Tim Legler, an NBA analyst for ESPN and a former NBA player, said Saunders could help the Pistons.

"You pay a price mentally playing for Larry Brown, everybody knows that, and they've been through all the games, all the sniping and those veiled jabs that he takes at them in the press," Legler said. "He took them as far as he could, in this case, to the championship. Flip is going to be a refreshing change for them, he's up front and doesn?t play games. I've never heard of any grumbling about him, he's just consistently won over the years.

"Flip is the best coach available out there, a great guy, and I think he's going to make the Pistons better."

Coaching the Pistons, however, will not be an easy task for Saunders, who will have more than a few issues to deal with:

Winning.

The Pistons won the 2004 title and returned to the Finals to defend their title last season, losing in seven games to the Spurs.

Saunders doesn't have a successful playoff record, evidenced by a 17-30 mark with the Timberwolves.

Dumars believes he will be up to the task.

"To step into this spot right now, there is going to be some heat. There is going to be some pressure to win," Dumars said. "The flip side is, to all the guys who called -- and we had a lot of guys call about this job -- is they all know they're going to be handed a hell of a team."

"Any coach worth his salt will take a look at that and say, 'I'll take my chances with that'"

Player relationships.

Saunders is known to be personable, calm guy and works well with players.

He will need to quickly mesh with a veteran team, one that has grown very ccustomed to running things Brown's way. Saunders also will have younger players to groom: forward Carlos Delfino, guard Carlos Arroyo, and the team's 2003 No. 2 draft pick, center Darko Milicic.

"I think the happiest person about this decision could be Darko," Legler said, laughing. "He's possibly getting a new lease on life."

Earning respect.

Saunders is easygoing, but don't mistake that for softness.

Every coach has his own method. Brown liked to be on his players hard, noted for his year-long penchant for draining practices and that infamous withering glare. Saunders isn't as high-strung as Brown, but Timberwolves guard Sam Cassell said Saunders commanded respect.

"If I do something wrong that he doesn't like, he'll approach me and get it straight," Cassell told USA TODAY in 2004. "He's not a yeller, but he gets at the cause of problems and fixes them. If you are doing something right, he's going to tell you, and if you're doing something wrong, he's going to tell you."

Saunders likely will open up the Pistons offense a bit, something that could please Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton.

Saunders is more in favor of an active style, bringing in more movement and three pointers into the offense schemes.

It also could help that Billups played for Saunders for two years, so he will have an inkling as to what his new coach will want.

Legler envisions more productivity from the Pistons

"The Pistons always had great defense, but there were times where this team really had some stagnant periods," Legler said. "They couldn't break a game open at times, only able to get up like six points. I really like Flip and what he does on offense, I think he's one of the most innovative coaches in that respect.

"He does some great things on the weak side, his offenses are very active and there is a lot of opportunity. The ball really moves around. They're never standing still. I think they're going to like it."

grace
07-21-2005, 10:19 AM
When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was "I don't give a flip about who is coaching Detroit." :lmao:

I'm so friggin' sick of hearing about Larry Brown I can't see straight! Now for the rest of time every time there's a coaching vacancy he's all we're ever going to hear about. Just like when Mike Fratello was doing TV. :suicide:

travmil
07-21-2005, 04:18 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Pistons could hire Hitler as coach and Saddam as asst. and Kstat would find some way to come on here and say why he thinks it's a perfect fit.

Since86
07-21-2005, 04:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Pistons could hire Hitler as coach and Saddam as asst. and Kstat would find some way to come on here and say why he thinks it's a perfect fit.


I'm always in favor of implimenting team 'stashes. I can only imagine what Benny would look like with a handlebar to go along with that fro.

Diamond Dave
07-21-2005, 04:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Pistons could hire Hitler as coach and Saddam as asst. and Kstat would find some way to come on here and say why he thinks it's a perfect fit.

Well now that you say it,

Hitler's offensive strategies were always somewhat of a blitzkrieg.

And Saddam manage to stay free for quite sometime even under heavy pressure.

Perhaps it would be a perfect blend of offense and defense.

Since86
07-21-2005, 04:33 PM
Well now that you say it,

Hitler's offensive strategies were always somewhat of a blitzkrieg.

And Saddam manage to stay free for quite sometime even under heavy pressure.

Perhaps it would be a perfect blend of offense and defense.


I'm not sure if I'm ready to hear about another Battle of the Bulge breaking out in the Detroit lockerroom. :puke:

foretaz
07-21-2005, 04:37 PM
they already have hitler and hussein in the organization....

bill 'hitler' davidson and tom 'hussein' wilson....the similarities are striking....

Bball
07-21-2005, 05:59 PM
Well now that you say it,

Hitler's offensive strategies were always somewhat of a blitzkrieg.

And Saddam manage to stay free for quite sometime even under heavy pressure.

Perhaps it would be a perfect blend of offense and defense.

Saddam would be better coaching the Pacers. He's knows all about black holes from living in one.

-Bball

PacerNation
07-21-2005, 06:09 PM
How about a combo of Laimbeer and Isiah? Co- head coaches. Or one could be the associate head coach.

I like it!

-Bball


I'm confused: Do you mean this would be better in the sense that it would make the Pistons worse and therefore make us more powerful in the East?

If so, I agree. Isiah could switch the lineup every night, start some people some nights then not others. Then he could bury people on the bench and if he were really lucky perhaps he could find a way to get Jalen Rose on the team, become best friends with him and totally ignore Hamilton and the Wallace brothers.

However, I think Isiah is doing such a good job with the Knicks that it would be ashamed to not see him finish what he started (I'm still trying to figure out what that is).

PacerNation
07-21-2005, 06:14 PM
Sheed seemed score effortlessly on the low block in the finals, especially early in the games, dropping lots of turnarounds over Duncan/Mohammed. The Pistons never seemed to go to him much later on tho...


Sheed scores when he wants to; in other words, I feel like he settles for being a second and third (sometimes 4th) scoring option a lot. If Rasheed always played like he had a guarantee to make good on it would be dangerous for a lot of teams. He seems to pick and choose when to be a leader.

On the other hand, if there's any team in the NBA that allows for that kind of attitude it would be the Pistons (just given the roster).

SoupIsGood
07-21-2005, 06:48 PM
they already have hitler and hussein in the organization....

bill 'hitler' davidson and tom 'hussein' wilson....the similarities are striking....

:sarcasm:

Jermaniac
07-21-2005, 08:48 PM
When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was "I don't give a flip about who is coaching Detroit." :lmao:

I'm so friggin' sick of hearing about Larry Brown I can't see straight! Now for the rest of time every time there's a coaching vacancy he's all we're ever going to hear about. Just like when Mike Fratello was doing TV. :suicide:I agree, sometimes I think the name of this forum is Pistons Digest. I mean some of the posters on this forum go out of their way to bash our players but defend Kstat and the Pistons players. I just dont get it.

Kstat
07-21-2005, 09:55 PM
I agree, sometimes I think the name of this forum is Pistons Digest. I mean some of the posters on this forum go out of their way to bash our players but defend Kstat and the Pistons players. I just dont get it.

This forum actually WAS Piston Digest once...:laugh:

ChicagoJ
07-21-2005, 09:57 PM
This forum actually WAS Piston Digest once...:laugh:

That's right... and you said good things about the Pacers that day, too. :-p

Kstat
07-21-2005, 09:58 PM
That's right... and you said good things about the Pacers that day, too. :-p

Yeah, that was a tough day for me....

:finger:

sweabs
07-21-2005, 10:05 PM
That's right... and you said good things about the Pacers that day, too. :-p

:shakehead

Bball
07-21-2005, 11:38 PM
I'm confused: Do you mean this would be better in the sense that it would make the Pistons worse and therefore make us more powerful in the East?



You got it! :D

-Bball

Cactus Jax
07-22-2005, 05:12 AM
And that Pistons Digest was BEFORE the brawl, imagine the fun now :devil:.

sc
07-22-2005, 10:09 AM
bill 'hitler' davidson

Davidson is jewish, sarcasm or not that is in really poor taste.

Since86
07-22-2005, 10:18 AM
Davidson is jewish, sarcasm or not that is in really poor taste.


Talk about oversensitive.......

Mourning
07-22-2005, 12:42 PM
That's not oversensitive.

Since86
07-22-2005, 12:50 PM
That's not oversensitive.

By just simply saying they have similiar characteristics is in poor taste?

I guess I'd better not compare a black man to Thomas Jefferson then. Hate to have bad taste by comparing someone who came from slave desent with a slave holder. :rolleyes:

efx
07-22-2005, 12:52 PM
What similarities does Davidsson share with Hitler?

Bball
07-22-2005, 12:53 PM
Is there any space left in the Shoutbox? I think we are about to need a slot.

-Bball

Since86
07-22-2005, 12:57 PM
What similarities does Davidsson share with Hitler?

I can go with the obvious and say that they're both male.


I'm not saying I agree with the analogy, just that I feel like taking offense to something like that is oversensitive.

Since86
07-22-2005, 01:01 PM
What similarities does Davidsson share with Hitler?


There's an easy way to squash it. Either taz or an admin can just switch the names around so it says, Bill "Hussein" Davidson and Tom "Hitler" Wilson.


(Are we even sure that Taz knew he was jewish?)

Bball
07-22-2005, 01:53 PM
(Are we even sure that Taz knew he was jewish?)

'Taz is jewish?

-Bball

Since86
07-22-2005, 02:09 PM
'Taz is jewish?

-Bball


I don't know.

I meant I'm not sure that Taz knew Davidson was jewish.

Naptown Seth
07-24-2005, 04:51 AM
I'm sure he'll do fine with the Pistons, but the bottom line is, he's a downgrade, and anytime your #1 rival downgrades anywhere, you've gotta be happy. Particualrly when that degrade is in something as important as coaching.
Flip Saunders is a top-10 coach.
Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle are top-3 coaches.

sc
07-25-2005, 02:57 PM
By just simply saying they have similiar characteristics is in poor taste?

I guess I'd better not compare a black man to Thomas Jefferson then. Hate to have bad taste by comparing someone who came from slave desent with a slave holder. :rolleyes:

I really hope this is sarcasm, becuase I really hope you do not need this explained to you.

Kstat
07-25-2005, 03:03 PM
holy crap, how the hell did I miss out on that comment?

Agreed. That was an incredibly horrible thing to say.