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View Full Version : Has Bender made it possible for me to dislike Ron Artest less???



Peck
07-20-2005, 04:38 PM
I'm thinking about it & right now I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for either of them but that stunt Jon pulls every summer just has me hoppin mad.

For everything I dislike about Ron, & God knows I've listed many of them on multiple times, at least I never had the feeling Ron didn't care whether he played or not.

I had gotten to the point where just to be honest I didn't give a crap about Bender one way or another. But the fly in for one game & leave the team sitting thing just rekindled what I hate about him & have for every season he has been here.

Do you realize this is not a unique situtation with Jon? He does this every year & has since his rookie year.

He wouldn't come to the city as a rookie to work with the trainers or coaching staff, they had to fly to him.

He refused to take part in Pete Newells big man camp & decided he could work out on his own & again the Pacers had to fly staff down to meet him.

This happens year after year after year with him.

I know some are going to say "big deal" it's the summer. Well, yes it is a big deal.

David Harrison moved to the city last summer to work with the staff, Danny Granger is already here now. Fred Jones flew in several times for individual workouts. Yet Jon can never seem to be bothered working with the team on his game.

He can't seem to play in any form of organized Pacers games yet can participate in charity games & pick up games. Wasn't his knee supposedly injured last year while playing in a pickup game?

Is he injued? Probably, hell I'm not even sure anymore. At one point in time I would have said yes he was injured but I don't know if he still is or not.

At the very least he needs a P.R. guy to tell him that when you have never lived up to expectations you should do everything in your power to make it look like you are trying to live up to your expectations & that injurys are holding you down.

Jon has no visibility in the franchise at all. Hell I'd be happy if he showed up a the local MARSH store to sign autographs.

People want to believe in him, people want to accept as fact his injury. But he makes it so damn hard to beleive him because of his isolation & percieved refusal to be part of the team.

Real or perceived is irrelavent about being part of the team because perception becomes reality & for a lot of us Jon just doesn't seem to posses any form of burning desire to be part of this team.

If nothing else good has come from this at least we can say that Jon has made me have a better appreciation for Ron Artest.

Ron's out there busting his @ss everyday while Jon heads back to the big easy for rest.

Does anybody think for a min. that Jermaine O'neal wouldn't do summer league if he was asked to? I can tell you I've seen J.O. at several summer practice sessions with rookies & free agents over the years just wanting to get better.

I've never seen Jon darken the door.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 04:44 PM
Man he doesn't need no stinking summer league.

I mean, remember what he told us on draft night.

"All the similarities to Kevin Garnett are nice, but I'm Jonathon Bender"

MagicRat
07-20-2005, 04:46 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050720/SPORTS04/507200398

Jonathan Bender
Bender's stop in Minneapolis was shorter than expected, but not because of another injury.

He was supposed to play two games, but the Pacers decided to pull him after one. Bender, who has yet to live up to his potential since being the No. 5 overall pick in the 1999 NBA draft because of injuries, had been rehabbing his injured right knee almost nonstop for the past few months. He will take about a week off before he continues rehabbing in New Orleans and Houston.

Bender looked out of sync because he didn't practice with the team before going to Minneapolis. He had eight points and five rebounds in 26 minutes and showed no signs of his knee bothering him on the court.

The Pacers expect Bender to be ready for training camp in October.


------------------------
Supporting Jon Jon <VB_HIGHLIGHT>= Supporting PACERS

Doug
07-20-2005, 04:51 PM
He was supposed to play two games, but the Pacers decided to pull him after one.

I saw that, but I've gone over to the dark side. I think that's spin, that he bailed without consulting with "The Pacers", and they are just trying to keep any problems internal to the team. IMO, the next time Bender looks like he cares about The Pacers, The NBA, or basketball in general will be his first.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 04:52 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050720/SPORTS04/507200398

Jonathan Bender
Bender's stop in Minneapolis was shorter than expected, but not because of another injury.

He was supposed to play two games, but the Pacers decided to pull him after one. Bender, who has yet to live up to his potential since being the No. 5 overall pick in the 1999 NBA draft because of injuries, had been rehabbing his injured right knee almost nonstop for the past few months. He will take about a week off before he continues rehabbing in New Orleans and Houston.

Bender looked out of sync because he didn't practice with the team before going to Minneapolis. He had eight points and five rebounds in 26 minutes and showed no signs of his knee bothering him on the court.

The Pacers expect Bender to be ready for training camp in October.


------------------------
Supporting Jon Jon <VB_HIGHLIGHT>= Supporting PACERS

Well it has been quietly hypothized around here and at RATS for several years that the Pacers have realized that they built this guy up so much that he can never live up to it and they now feel a pressure to hide him.

Will Galen
07-20-2005, 04:54 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050720/SPORTS04/507200398

Jonathan Bender
Bender's stop in Minneapolis was shorter than expected, but not because of another injury.

He was supposed to play two games, but the Pacers decided to pull him after one. Bender, who has yet to live up to his potential since being the No. 5 overall pick in the 1999 NBA draft because of injuries, had been rehabbing his injured right knee almost nonstop for the past few months. He will take about a week off before he continues rehabbing in New Orleans and Houston.

Bender looked out of sync because he didn't practice with the team before going to Minneapolis. He had eight points and five rebounds in 26 minutes and showed no signs of his knee bothering him on the court.

The Pacers expect Bender to be ready for training camp in October.


------------------------
Supporting Jon Jon <VB_HIGHLIGHT>= Supporting PACERS


That's what they are saying now. I swear I read last week somewhere that the Pacers were surprised when Jon Left. The article was either a Star article or a Bruno article on Pacers.com. It wasn't the article where he says he was taking a break, it was a different one.


I've looked for it but I'll look again.

Unclebuck
07-20-2005, 04:54 PM
MR, even I think that is spin.

I'm not going to defend Bender. Especially when he makes Artest look good.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 04:55 PM
I'm not going to defend Bender. Especially when he makes Artest look good.

:laugh:

The tables are beginning to turn your way again eh?
:)

MagicRat
07-20-2005, 04:57 PM
I thought Mike Wells was supposed to be the great anti-bunny?

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 04:58 PM
I thought Mike Wells was supposed to be the great anti-bunny?

They've gotten to him.

:borg:

Bball
07-20-2005, 05:00 PM
I'm thinking about it & right now I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for either of them but that stunt Jon pulls every summer just has me hoppin mad.

For everything I dislike about Ron, & God knows I've listed many of them on multiple times, at least I never had the feeling Ron didn't care whether he played or not.

Unless he (Artest) is retiring at some point in a season....






Jon has no visibility in the franchise at all. Hell I'd be happy if he showed up a the local MARSH store to sign autographs.

And sprain a finger or wrist signing autographs? Heaven forbid he has to reach to grab whatever a fan is handing to him to sign and strains a shoulder!!!




Does anybody think for a min. that Jermaine O'neal wouldn't do summer league if he was asked to? I can tell you I've seen J.O. at several summer practice sessions with rookies & free agents over the years just wanting to get better.

I've never seen Jon darken the door.

This is another reason why Bender's contract extension was a big fat mistake. If we re-signed him at all we should've let him test the water of FA and see what was out there for him. His agent has to be laughing to this day that either we offered or accepted such a deal. IMHO it would've been well worth rolling the dice to see if anyone else wanted him and at how much rather than extending him.

-Bball

Suaveness
07-20-2005, 05:01 PM
I've hated the fact that he's on this team for so long. He is such an incredible distraction, whether he's going to be playing one day, but not the other. It's just so irritating. And I think that he just can't play, that's why they pulled him.

Not to mention his basketball IQ is so freaking low that....well, it sucks.

indygeezer
07-20-2005, 05:04 PM
Don't do this to me Peck.

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 05:07 PM
Not to mention his basketball IQ is so freaking low that....well, it sucks.
I have no idea what his basketball skills are considering I haven't seen him play for so long. He could be the next MJ for all I know. That doesn't do any of us any good if he's not a contributing member of the roster this year.

Suaveness
07-20-2005, 05:10 PM
I have no idea what his basketball skills are considering I haven't seen him play for so long. He could be the next MJ for all I know. That doesn't do any of us any good if he's not a contributing member of the roster this year.

After watching him repeatedly drive into the lane against the Pistons in '04 and having the ball gotten stolen or getting an offensive foul or whatever in just 1 game, he has to be stupid basketball-wise. No other explanation, is there?

Unclebuck
07-20-2005, 05:11 PM
You know what, for someone most of you have given up on long ago, Bender is sure getting a lot of discussion in this forum. I thought you gave up years ago. Why all of a sudden all the discussion.

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 05:12 PM
After watching him repeatedly drive into the lane against the Pistons in '04 and having the ball gotten stolen or getting an offensive foul or whatever in just 1 game, he has to be stupid basketball-wise. No other explanation, is there?
Like I said, it's been a long time. Thanks for refreshing my memory ... or re-opening my almost-healed headwound. :( :)

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 05:13 PM
You know what, for someone most of you have given up on long ago, Bender is sure getting a lot of discussion in this forum. I thought you gave up years ago. Why all of a sudden all the discussion.
Utter and complete boredom. You have to ask? :confused: :D

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 05:13 PM
I've hated the fact that he's on this team for so long. He is such an incredible distraction, whether he's going to be playing one day, but not the other. It's just so irritating. And I think that he just can't play, that's why they pulled him.

Not to mention his basketball IQ is so freaking low that....well, it sucks.

Are you talking about Bender or Artest. :devil:

Suaveness
07-20-2005, 05:14 PM
You know what, for someone most of you have given up on long ago, Bender is sure getting a lot of discussion in this forum. I thought you gave up years ago. Why all of a sudden all the discussion.

It happens every year. Bender plays in one game, and all of a sudden the next coming has returned. That inexplicable hope that he will somehow shine in glory gets every so excited.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-20-2005, 05:14 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_050720.html

Conrad says that Bender made the decision not to play:

"Q. I think a lot of people were under the impression that (Jonathan) Bender was going to play two games this week but he only played one. Did his knees get bad again or was it more of a precautionary thing so he would be ready for training camp? Also, do you think players like Maurice Carter and Chris Thomas have a chance to make the roster this year, much like (John) Edwards did last year? (From Ben in Indiana)



A. Bender was originally scheduled to play two games, Friday and Sunday, with two days off in between to allow his knees to rest. But after playing 26 minutes in the opening game Friday afternoon, Bender opted to pull out of the summer league because he reportedly said he needed some time off after his busy rehab schedule. The team certainly would've liked to see him play in the second game, but he reported no pain after the first, so that was a positive sign. There remains hope he'll be able to participate in training camp but, at this point, there is no certainty where Bender is concerned.

As for the non-roster free agents, Carter certainly impressed the staff both with his consistent production (14.5 points, 5.5 rebounds and 66.7 percent shooting) and his ability to get the most out of a secondary role on a team focused on Ron Artest and David Harrison. He should be in somebody's training camp this fall. Thomas was up and down, finishing with averages of 7.3 points and 2.8 assists while shooting 47.1 percent from the field. He reinforced his strengths (shooting and scoring) but didn't eliminate questions about his ability to defend at the NBA level. Still, he'll probably be in an NBA training camp this fall."

Bball
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
I just have to add... Jonathon Bender should thank God for Donnie Walsh every day of his life and should bend over backwards (I admit he could hurt himself doing it) to do what the Pacers ask of him.

He is grossly overpaid and he cost this team a productive player who we could've used all this time or traded for someone more durable and productive than Bender. And he should also look at the players we could've taken at #5 instead and what many of them have accomplished.

Walsh took a gamble on him and then compounded it with a nice extension and it looks like Walsh, the fans, and the organization are losers. Bender and his agent are the winners... That was a major roll of the dice and I don't know whether that was being loyal to a fault, overly optimistic, or refusing to admit a mistake and hoping for better things ahead but in any case I'm ready to see the Bender distraction come to an end.

-Bball

Suaveness
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
Are you talking about Bender or Artest. :devil:


:-p Bender!

Gyron
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
I have a signed piece of Gym floor autographed by the one and only Jonathon Bender from his rookie season.......

Now I'm feeling bad thinking maybe he might have hurt himself signing that piece of gym floor and I might be the cause of all of his lost "potential"......

I guess from this day forth you can officially blame it all on me...:(

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
You know what, for someone most of you have given up on long ago, Bender is sure getting a lot of discussion in this forum. I thought you gave up years ago. Why all of a sudden all the discussion.

Because it became very apparent this season that roster spots are meant for those who can contribute.

He has been uselessly filling a roster spot for years.

able
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
As far as I am concerned Wells is a disaster.

I normally read the Pacers part of the Star eveyr monring and post most articles here, either that or one of the other old sleep deprived geezerrs here; Will or Peck, post it, however this monring's article made something clear to me:
Wells can not spell the word Artest without mentioning the brawl.
Wells starts off today's lead article;
-------------------------------
Artest aces his 1st test in return to Pacers
Volatile forward leads team in scoring, gets through summer stint without incident.

{pic}
Back on the bench: Pacers forward Ron Artest takes a break during a timeout in a summer league game. It was his first NBA-level competition since he was suspended for the season in November. -- Ann Heisenfelt / Associated Press

By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com


MINNEAPOLIS -- For five days, much of the talk at the Target Center centered on Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest, clearly the best player in the six-team summer league.

Had he really changed?

Was Artest the same player -- a former All-Star, NBA Defensive Player of the Year -- he was before he was suspended for the final 73 regular-season games and postseason for going into the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills on Nov. 19?

-----------------

Not only is he just as much "mouthpiece" he does so with far less "love" for the Pacers and definitely less knowledge then Mark.

This particular article could have been written by Kravitz as much since all he is asking or stating is how glad he is that Artest didnt' go into the stands.

sorry, but there will be enough of that crap posted in the coming year by people who want to be funny in their column or article and I htink yoour local beat writer does not need to explain that worry.

Bball
07-20-2005, 05:17 PM
You know what, for someone most of you have given up on long ago, Bender is sure getting a lot of discussion in this forum. I thought you gave up years ago. Why all of a sudden all the discussion.

Because his salary and roster spot are helping to tie the Pacers' hands in upgrading the team.

-Bball

PacerMan
07-20-2005, 05:42 PM
I'm thinking about it & right now I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for either of them but that stunt Jon pulls every summer just has me hoppin mad.

For everything I dislike about Ron, & God knows I've listed many of them on multiple times, at least I never had the feeling Ron didn't care whether he played or not.
.


How quickly you forget: "I need time off to promote my new cd". !!!!!!!

Hicks
07-20-2005, 05:43 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050720/SPORTS04/507200398

Jonathan Bender
Bender's stop in Minneapolis was shorter than expected, but not because of another injury.

He was supposed to play two games, but the Pacers decided to pull him after one. Bender, who has yet to live up to his potential since being the No. 5 overall pick in the 1999 NBA draft because of injuries, had been rehabbing his injured right knee almost nonstop for the past few months. He will take about a week off before he continues rehabbing in New Orleans and Houston.

Bender looked out of sync because he didn't practice with the team before going to Minneapolis. He had eight points and five rebounds in 26 minutes and showed no signs of his knee bothering him on the court.

The Pacers expect Bender to be ready for training camp in October.


------------------------
Supporting Jon Jon <vb_highlight>= Supporting PACERS</vb_highlight>

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_050720.html



Q. I think a lot of people were under the impression that (Jonathan) Bender was going to play two games this week but he only played one. Did his knees get bad again or was it more of a precautionary thing so he would be ready for training camp? Also, do you think players like Maurice Carter and Chris Thomas have a chance to make the roster this year, much like (John) Edwards did last year? (From Ben in Indiana)

<table align="right" height="50" width="50"><tbody><tr><td>http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/qod_logo.gif</td></tr></tbody></table>

A. Bender was originally scheduled to play two games, Friday and Sunday, with two days off in between to allow his knees to rest. But after playing 26 minutes in the opening game Friday afternoon, Bender opted to pull out of the summer league because he reportedly said he needed some time off after his busy rehab schedule. The team certainly would've liked to see him play in the second game, but he reported no pain after the first, so that was a positive sign. There remains hope he'll be able to participate in training camp but, at this point, there is no certainty where Bender is concerned.

Anthem
07-20-2005, 06:29 PM
I thought Peck's post was over the top, but I don't have time to respond. Later, gator.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 07:01 PM
soooo much animosity....soo soo much...

towards a guy, im assuming noone even knows personally....

at times it appears we might look at these guys as objects instead of people....objects that play a role in getting 'us' a title....and since hes been physically unable to contribute, hes therefore useless....

though it appears the underlying anger is really at the organization for doing the deal to get him in the first place(at the expense of the much loved antonio davis) and then continuing their support for him like they do every other player thats been a pacer....

jonathan bender is a human being...theres very little of whats been discussed that hes had much of a choice about...

he has to play the hand that hes dealt....just like the pacers management....just like all of us....

sometimes its a loser hand...

and sometimes it starts out great but just never materializes....

he is only 24...so while it appears we dont have many cards left coming our way, theres still a couple left, if they are jokers, then things could turn around in a hurry and we all could end up happy....

or we could just end up losing the hand....and that happens...

however ...on a side note...as others have mentioned....if jb's plight helps soften the stance on ron...then so be it....ron is much more integral to our team, at this point, than jb....ill just keep my fingers crossed that things work out for jb...for everyones sake, not the least of which is jb

SoupIsGood
07-20-2005, 07:15 PM
I don't consider him part of the team right now, I just don't care anymore. He isn't even that good, anyway.

Sollozzo
07-20-2005, 07:16 PM
soooo much animosity....soo soo much...

towards a guy, im assuming noone even knows personally....

at times it appears we might look at these guys as objects instead of people....objects that play a role in getting 'us' a title....and since hes been physically unable to contribute, hes therefore useless....

though it appears the underlying anger is really at the organization for doing the deal to get him in the first place(at the expense of the much loved antonio davis) and then continuing their support for him like they do every other player thats been a pacer....

jonathan bender is a human being...theres very little of whats been discussed that hes had much of a choice about...

he has to play the hand that hes dealt....just like the pacers management....just like all of us....

sometimes its a loser hand...

and sometimes it starts out great but just never materializes....

he is only 24...so while it appears we dont have many cards left coming our way, theres still a couple left, if they are jokers, then things could turn around in a hurry and we all could end up happy....

or we could just end up losing the hand....and that happens...

however ...on a side note...as others have mentioned....if jb's plight helps soften the stance on ron...then so be it....ron is much more integral to our team, at this point, than jb....ill just keep my fingers crossed that things work out for jb...for everyones sake, not the least of which is jb


Anytime anyone criticizes a player on this team, we always hear from you that "we don't know him personally", as if we should be forbidden to criticize any Pacer that we don't know on a personal level. It was the exact same case when anyone had negative comments about Artest.

We judge what we see. It's painfully obvious to most of us that Jon Bender doesn't exactly have the best work ethic in the league. Him missing these games is just another example.

We as fans invest time and money into this franchise, therefore giving us the right to complain when we arent happy. At the very least, anyone on this forum has invested some amount of time into the Pacers. But most have us have invested money on some level whether its tickets, jerseys, or whatever.

Therefore we have the right to complain when the franchise is paying a player as much as Bender was getting, and we don't see that much of a work ethic.

I know, I know, we don't know him "personally"

As for you saying "he's only 24" That's just laughable to hear. It's the same thing every summer. "He's only 20" "He's only 21", "He's only 22, "He's only 23"

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 07:22 PM
Anytime anyone criticizes a player on this team, we always hear from you that "we don't know him personally", as if we should be forbidden to criticize any Pacer that we don't know on a personal level. It was the exact same case when anyone had negative comments about Artest.

We judge what we see. It's painfully obvious to most of us that Jon Bender doesn't exactly have the best work ethic in the league. Him missing these games is just another example.

We as fans invest time and money into this franchise, therefore giving us the right to complain when we arent happy. At the very least, anyone on this forum has invested some amount of time into the Pacers. But most have us have invested money on some level whether its tickets, jerseys, or whatever.

Therefore we have the right to complain when the franchise is paying a player as much as Bender was getting, and we don't see that much of a work ethic.

I know, I know, we don't know him "personally"

As for you saying "he's only 24" That's just laughable to hear. It's the same thing every summer. "He's only 20" "He's only 21", "He's only 22, "He's only 23"

In addition to everything you just said, which all I agree with. I despise it when someone proposes a change with the team on this message board, and those who disagree with it use the "Well the team's not doing it, and they know more about basketball than you do" line. Its that type of thinking that makes me wonder why they would waste time on a message board. If we're not allowed to question decisions because the team knows best, then why even talk about the Pacers. Just accept what they do, and be happy, knowing it was a wiser decision than you could make.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 07:27 PM
Anytime anyone criticizes a player on this team, we always hear from you that "we don't know him personally", as if we should be forbidden to criticize any Pacer that we don't know on a personal level. It was the exact same case when anyone had negative comments about Artest.

We judge what we see. It's painfully obvious to most of us that Jon Bender doesn't exactly have the best work ethic in the league. Him missing these games is just another example.

We as fans invest time and money into this franchise, therefore giving us the right to complain when we arent happy. At the very least, anyone on this forum has invested some amount of time into the Pacers. But most have us have invested money on some level whether its tickets, jerseys, or whatever.

Therefore we have the right to complain when the franchise is paying a player as much as Bender was getting, and we don't see that much of a work ethic.

I know, I know, we don't know him "personally"

As for you saying "he's only 24" That's just laughable to hear. It's the same thing every summer. "He's only 20" "He's only 21", "He's only 22, "He's only 23"

forgive me if i find the concept of criticizing a persons character when we dont know that person a bit mystifying....

criticize play...which we can see? reasonable

criticize effort? that can sometimes be evident, but not always....

criticize a guy for being injured?? ummmm...maybe in jason williams case...but thats not what we are dealing with here...

criticize his work ethic? well ill address that one specifically, because all reports are that he has been working diligently on his rehab since the middle of the season, even doing so up until now, long past the time when others have gone home and taken a break...from the looks of his body last week it certainly doesnt appear hes been slacking....so that seems to be in error...

now...criticize a guys character....how possibly can we know that based on where we sit and what we see....dont recall jon having any trouble with the law....there are many reports of his support for his community....seems to be a pretty straight up guy....

in fact seems like hes a pretty decent guy....he just has been physically unable to play for quite some time.....now u can be totally pi$$ed about that...and i understand....im quite unhappy as well....but taking it out by bashing jons character...i dunno....as ive said...if it helps people deal...so be it....

as far as people investing money....i doubt there are many who have 'invested' what i have over the years.....thats really not the point....you go to a game and pay for a ticket, it doesnt entitle u to throw things at the players......unless ur in detroit;)....

all this being said....i think in ur haste to debate...u might have missed the overall gist of the message....

Sollozzo
07-20-2005, 07:32 PM
In addition to everything you just said, which all I agree with. I despise it when someone proposes a change with the team on this message board, and those who disagree with it use the "Well the team's not doing it, and they know more about basketball than you do" line. Its that type of thinking that makes me wonder why they would waste time on a message board. If we're not allowed to question decisions because the team knows best, then why even talk about the Pacers. Just accept what they do, and be happy, knowing it was a wiser decision than you could make.


Great point.

What you mentioned frustrated me during the Brad Miller deal(sorry to everyone in advance for bringing his name up).

Whenever those who wanted to keep Miller voiced their opinion(including myself), there were always people that basically said, "well Donnie didn't think Brad was worth it, therefore it was the right move."

I have no problem with people who did not want Miller here, regarldess of what Walsh did. But I do have a problem when someone says that letting Brad go was right because Donnie was in charge, and since Donnie did it, its ok.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 07:39 PM
In addition to everything you just said, which all I agree with. I despise it when someone proposes a change with the team on this message board, and those who disagree with it use the "Well the team's not doing it, and they know more about basketball than you do" line. Its that type of thinking that makes me wonder why they would waste time on a message board. If we're not allowed to question decisions because the team knows best, then why even talk about the Pacers. Just accept what they do, and be happy, knowing it was a wiser decision than you could make.


you know...i dont disagree with u here...

and ill expound...

there a couple things i despise even more than this...

a doctor, that has spent all his life training and being a doctor, trying to tell a mechanic how to fix a car, when that mechanic has spent all his life and education learning how to fix the car....or worse yet, this doctor without even really having a thorough look at the car or using diagnostic equipment, suggesting that he might know better than the mechanic...

and secondly, the doctor who blames the mechanic because his car wouldnt start when it was the doctor who left the dome light on all nite...

Will Galen
07-20-2005, 07:42 PM
soooo much animosity....soo soo much...

towards a guy, im assuming noone even knows personally....



Do you know KStat personally?


(giggle, giggle, snort)

SoupIsGood
07-20-2005, 07:43 PM
Do you know KStat personally?


(giggle, giggle, snort)

Nice... :laugh:

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 07:45 PM
Perhaps the doctor should just close his eyes, cover his ears, and put a smile on, while the ever so wise mechanic never quite fixes his car. Always gets close to fixing it, but it always breaks back down.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 07:46 PM
Do you know KStat personally?


(giggle, giggle, snort)

Exactly.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 07:49 PM
Perhaps the doctor should just close his eyes, cover his ears, and put a smile on, while the ever so wise mechanic never quite fixes his car. Always gets close to fixing it, but it always breaks back down.

yes...but then...whos really at fault here? if thats what the issue is....

why does the doctor keep taking the car back to the same mechanic....

there are other mechanics....

see the point was...the mechanic fixed the car...but sometimes things happen that the mechanic has no control over that make for a result that the doctor might like....and because people like to place blame...well then the doctor wants to point at the mechanic....which simply isnt fair....life doesnt always work out the way we want it to....and trying to place blame is generally not very productive

MagicRat
07-20-2005, 07:50 PM
And who are you going to believe? The official internet mouthpiece or that beacon of truth, that refreshing reporter unwilling to kowtow before the Pacers organization, Mike Wells?..........

foretaz
07-20-2005, 07:51 PM
Do you know KStat personally?


(giggle, giggle, snort)

i have nothing against kstat...personally...

Peck
07-20-2005, 07:55 PM
yes...but then...whos really at fault here? if thats what the issue is....

why does the doctor keep taking the car back to the same mechanic....

there are other mechanics....

see the point was...the mechanic fixed the car...but sometimes things happen that the mechanic has no control over that make for a result that the doctor might like....and because people like to place blame...well then the doctor wants to point at the mechanic....which simply isnt fair....life doesnt always work out the way we want it to....and trying to place blame is generally not very productive

If the mechanic put on a new starter when the car needed a new oil plug, then yes it's the mechanics fault.

Sometimes there is only one mechanic in town btw.

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 07:58 PM
yes...but then...whos really at fault here? if thats what the issue is....

why does the doctor keep taking the car back to the same mechanic....

there are other mechanics....

see the point was...the mechanic fixed the car...but sometimes things happen that the mechanic has no control over that make for a result that the doctor might like....and because people like to place blame...well then the doctor wants to point at the mechanic....which simply isnt fair....life doesnt always work out the way we want it to....and trying to place blame is generally not very productive

Well see, the doctor likes being able to watch his car get fixed in person. However the mechanic is the only mechanic within traveling distance. But this mechanic has obviously never fixed the car, ask KStat, however he did raise his shop rates. Oh and the mechanic had lots of control over the current malfunction. It was the mechanic who decided to extend the warranty on the car without consulting the doctor.

:lol:

foretaz
07-20-2005, 08:00 PM
If the mechanic put on a new starter when the car needed a new oil plug, then yes it's the mechanics fault.

Sometimes there is only one mechanic in town btw.

move to another town? buy a new car?? fix it urself ???

:D :D :D

SoupIsGood
07-20-2005, 08:02 PM
move to another town?



Yes.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 08:04 PM
Well see, the doctor likes being able to watch his car get fixed in person. However the mechanic is the only mechanic within traveling distance. But this mechanic has obviously never fixed the car, ask KStat, however he did raise his shop rates. Oh and the mechanic had lots of control over the current malfunction. It was the mechanic who decided to extend the warranty on the car without consulting the doctor.

:lol:


speaking of kstat....just remember...things could always be worse...better to have a car that runs right most of the time....than to have a shiny new car, only to have to bring in a new driver thats probably gonna put it in the ditch...

of course theres always walking or the bus...u know atlanta and new orleans??

Diamond Dave
07-20-2005, 08:06 PM
speaking of kstat....just remember...things could always be worse...better to have a car that runs right most of the time....than to have a shiny new car, only to have to bring in a new driver thats probably gonna put it in the ditch...

of course theres always walking or the bus...u know atlanta and new orleans??

I disagree. In this case I'd rather have a new car that works perfectly for one year, than a slow junkie van that won't ever die.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 08:09 PM
I disagree. In this case I'd rather have a new car that works perfectly for one year, than a slow junkie van that won't ever die.


cmon...ur from indiana...u know where anything can be fixed with bailing wire and duct tape....;) ;)

SoupIsGood
07-20-2005, 08:12 PM
cmon...ur from indiana...u know where anything can be fixed with bailing wire and duct tape....;) ;)


"Duct tape is like the force: It has a dark side and a light side and it holds
the universe together." - Carl Zwanzig

McClintic Sphere
07-20-2005, 08:12 PM
Do you know KStat personally?


(giggle, giggle, snort)

Too funny. Well, I agree with your position regarding what we don't know Foretaz, but my theory is that for most people it's a misplaced reaction to the articles every off and preseason proclaiiming what an untamable beast Bender has become in the offseason. It's easier to project the frustration on Bender(i.e. "he must be a ne'er-do-well to waste all that incredible talent we've been told he has") than to cast ridicule on the hype machine. I can't believe Walsh and Bird would invest the years and money into this guy after his initial contract if they didn't see someone who wanted to be an outstanding player and had the discipline to apply themself. Remember, Bird was around Bender every day for what 2 straight years?
My questions are, did our medical staff miss an structural flaw in Bender at somepoint and misdiagnose it. Was Bender given the proper training or did he choose an improper training program for his young growing body? And finally can Dan Dyrek produce a healthy Bender this year.

BillS
07-20-2005, 08:12 PM
of course theres always walking or the bus...u know atlanta and new orleans??

Naaah. Atlanta isn't taking the bus or walking. It's sitting on the porch in a ratty t-shirt and boxer shorts with a PBR surrounded by bunches of rusted-out hulks up on concrete blocks that'll get fixed "someday" but that meanwhile have whole families of chickens living in them ...

foretaz
07-20-2005, 08:25 PM
Too funny. Well, I agree with your position regarding what we don't know Foretaz, but my theory is that for most people it's a misplaced reaction to the articles every off and preseason proclaiiming what an untamable beast Bender has become in the offseason. It's easier to project the frustration on Bender(i.e. "he must be a ne'er-do-well to waste all that incredible talent we've been told he has") than to cast ridicule on the hype machine. I can't believe Walsh and Bird would invest the years and money into this guy after his initial contract if they didn't see someone who wanted to be an outstanding player and had the discipline to apply themself. Remember, Bird was around Bender every day for what 2 straight years?
My questions are, did our medical staff miss an structural flaw in Bender at somepoint and misdiagnose it. Was Bender given the proper training or did he choose an improper training program for his young growing body? And finally can Dan Dyrek produce a healthy Bender this year.

i tend to agree with u totally here....

hey...i understand the frustration...we want and have needed what he supposedly was capable of giving...but was physically unable to....

i just think its a bit much to question a guys character without knowing a helluva lot more that what weve seen from a distance.....

and yes..i think it has a lot to do with the medical staff....we gotta remember...and i think maybe it was DD that used the saying 'deer in the headlights'

this kid was as green as they come....he pretty much did whatever they wanted for many many years....he didnt know what to do...he was lost and they were the guide....

knowing birds sensitivity regarding medical treatment and misdiagnosis from his own playing career u just have a feeling theres something with this regard behind the medical staff revamping....that and dyreks involvement in so many more things, now....

dyrek did wonders of sorts for bird, but after it was past a certain point...hopefully things arent past that point with jon....hopefully they got to whatever it is early enuff that he might have a long career....dyrek being involved would lead one to believe theres a chance bender might be in a position to perform this year.....or at least the drama might be coming to an end.....it appears hes gotten the proper medical care, done all the rehab, gotten his body much stronger.....and all signs point to training camp/ beginning of regular season as being 'it'...

and the good news is no matter what, things will begin to rectify themselves.....if he stays healthy then he can begin to contribute and they can decide what theyre gonna do with him....quite possibly trade him around the deadline...if he is unable to perform physically yet again...then u will probably see some things done with regard to career ending injury and medical exemptions....

Bball
07-20-2005, 08:26 PM
"Duct tape is like the force: It has a dark side and a light side and it holds
the universe together." - Carl Zwanzig

I only use gaffer's tape.

Bball "Tape Snob"

-Bball

Suaveness
07-20-2005, 09:04 PM
If the mechanic put on a new starter when the car needed a new oil plug, then yes it's the mechanics fault.

Sometimes there is only one mechanic in town btw.

Juggernaut!



And we not NOT critisize doctors here...all this mechanic stuff has me even more depressed about studying mcats here.... :(


Speaking of mechanics, I think Bender should be able to afford one....

McClintic Sphere
07-20-2005, 09:10 PM
and the good news is no matter what, things will begin to rectify themselves.....if he stays healthy then he can begin to contribute and they can decide what theyre gonna do with him....quite possibly trade him around the deadline...if he is unable to perform physically yet again...then u will probably see some things done with regard to career ending injury and medical exemptions....

Exactly. Even a Bender optimist like me admits this has to be the make or break year. People have to remember an unhealthy Bender has negative trade value. I would go so far as to say by October we should know whether they should cut Bender for medical reasons or Croshere for being outlandishly overpriced. After all, Bender hasn't played in NBA real game competition since almost a year ago. If you can't fix something in a year or a least bring it to a point where a strong recovery becomes imminent, the it's time to shut down FrankenBender and send him back to N.O. for good.

RWB
07-21-2005, 09:17 AM
Nothing new to add really on this topic other than I've probably been the biggest Bender believer on these forums since he was drafted. What I posted below in the Chuck Speaks thread still holds true for me. I use to make the excuse the guy was young and an introvert. Just wait till he get's some maturity. I really took notice not because of something DW or Bird said, but was told by a reporter covering a charity golf outing that Slick Leonard really believed this guy had the tools to be BETTER than Larry Nance. That got me hooked because if someone were to ask me who Mr. PAcer is (for many it might be Reggie) it is Bobby Slick Leonard and I trust this man's judgement completely.

I've just finally come to the realization Slick said Bender has the tools, but never mentioned anything about Jon's heart, desire, or dedication.

I suggest Jon just file his retirement, go back home to New Orleans where he is a good citizen, and become an assistant coach on Xaiver's squad.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually the Bender reference was from Wil (?) on channel 6. Can't give you the exact quote but Wil (?) had been talking to the 6 reporter covering the summer league games and was told Bender had left right after the game to go home to New Orleans. Was expected to play two games, but decided not to. Bird and Carlisle were asked about it and were surprised because that was the first they had heard of it.

I guess if they want to spin it they can say (Bird and Carlisle) were taken out of context and what they were saying is they were surprised not that Bender left, but that he was suppose to play two games when really maybe it was only suppose be one.

I'm just done with the guy after this. Like I said, I've talked with a few folks who think the sun set's in this guys back side especially when it comes to supporting HIS local community. That's great and the more players do that the more I have no problem with their high salaries. However, Bendee needs to remember who his employer is and he does owe them something. Working out and being watched by Dyrek was a good start, but it's starting to look like Bender is spoiled. Working out at XU with division III college kids these past years was not good enough, and I believe Bird wasn't going to accept that anymore. As we discussed at the party I believe Walsh still runs the show, but Larry Bird is really starting to flex his wings (yes pun intended) with this team.
__________________

Los Angeles
07-21-2005, 11:20 AM
Exactly. Even a Bender optimist like me admits this has to be the make or break year. People have to remember an unhealthy Bender has negative trade value. I would go so far as to say by October we should know whether they should cut Bender for medical reasons or Croshere for being outlandishly overpriced. After all, Bender hasn't played in NBA real game competition since almost a year ago. If you can't fix something in a year or a least bring it to a point where a strong recovery becomes imminent, the it's time to shut down FrankenBender and send him back to N.O. for good.
Last year was the make or break year.

Bender broke.

Roy Munson
07-21-2005, 11:44 AM
If the Pacers were trying to trade Bender this summer -- If they could find some team, ANY team interested in him -- you'd sure think they be showcasing him to demonstrate that he was healthy enough to help someone.

If I was the GM of another NBA team I would take Bender's summer routine as a sign that he was either not really healthy enough to play, or not really interested in playing. In either case he isn't doing anything to enhance his value to the Pacers or any other team.