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View Full Version : Plan B' : Has been mentioned



indygeezer
07-20-2005, 12:47 PM
If we truly do fail to sign Saras then of course Plan B will immediately be implemented. Plan B being to sit back and wait to see who is released under the one-time amnesty provision of the CBA. I would expect the powers that be to hold onto as much of the MLE as possible so they could go after someone they target.

This brings up two questions:

a) Who do we expect to be made available?

b) Why are we pursueing Saras so hard when we have 3 pg's recently tied to contracts?
IMO, I firmly feel they may be looking for a Tinsley replacement. I think they are satisfied with Gill and AJ (note the recent contracts) and so the only one that can really be moved would be Tinsley.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 12:56 PM
If we truly do fail to sign Saras then of course Plan B will immediately be implemented. Plan B being to sit back and wait to see who is released under the one-time amnesty provision of the CBA. I would expect the powers that be to hold onto as much of the MLE as possible so they could go after someone they target.

This brings up two questions:

a) Who do we expect to be made available?

b) Why are we pursueing Saras so hard when we have 3 pg's recently tied to contracts?
IMO, I firmly feel they may be looking for a Tinsley replacement. I think they are satisfied with Gill and AJ (note the recent contracts) and so the only one that can really be moved would be Tinsley.

well they re-upped tinsley for like 6 or 7 years at about the same time they signed gill and aj....so im not sure what that means regarding the contracts situation...

i will say this....i think they believe they can improve on their pg situation....

finding an upgrade over tinsley will be damn near impossible....how many pgs are there that are better?....then what is the likelihood one of them could be obtained???

thats why i think u have to go to the backup slots....because both of them can be upgraded much more easily....u throw in the fact that aj's trade value is probably at an all time high and well....things start making sense....

when bird was coach with carlisle his assistant, we saw almost a duel headed pg role....jax and travis...i think u wouldve seen something very similar if saras wouldve been signed....

and i think they are interested in finding a nother quality pg to take over the backup slot....and saras couldve played minutes at the 2 as well...and i think they would prefer that as well also...thats why jaric would be a good candidate though im not sure how likely that is...

RWB
07-20-2005, 12:57 PM
Sometimes I wonder if we're using Plan 9?

indygeezer
07-20-2005, 01:04 PM
Sometimes I wonder if we're using Plan 9?

Distinctly possible.

McClintic Sphere
07-20-2005, 01:07 PM
I am of the belief that this position holds the key to our championship hopes.
While I think Rick has been happy with Jamaal's production when healthy, there has always been disappointment about consistency and maturity. I just find it scary that we are going to pin our championship hopes on what may fall to us from the remainder bin. I would personally love it if we acquired a Mike James/Lindsay Hunter type and looked to create offense from defensive pressure. Step on the gas dammit, we have the studs to as Tex Winter used to put it to "Unleash the dobermans"

able
07-20-2005, 01:48 PM
Tinsley signed a 6 year extension believed to start at 6 million in Ocotber 2004 which starts this coming season.

I sincerely doubt that a player who is very much one of LB's favorites is on te hot seat, however despite signing a 4 year contract AJ was only signed for a starting amount of 1.2 million or there abouts, Gill has a two year minimum contract and goes like AJ into his second year of the contract.

Bball
07-20-2005, 02:06 PM
Tinsley signed a 6 year extension believed to start at 6 million in Ocotber 2004 which starts this coming season.

I sincerely doubt that a player who is very much one of LB's favorites is on te hot seat, however despite signing a 4 year contract AJ was only signed for a starting amount of 1.2 million or there abouts, Gill has a two year minimum contract and goes like AJ into his second year of the contract.

I keep reading these comments but we there's an assumption going around that Tinsley is still in good graces both with Bird and with Carlisle. I'm not convinced that is the case. I've never been convinced that Carlisle was in Tinsley's corner and maybe he's convinced Bird of something? It's been a while IIRC since Bird spoke glowingly of Tinsley... and at that time he'd been around him less.

Maybe it is a conditioning issue... a work issue... an inability not to resort to streetball... taking bad shots... etc... I don't know. I just think Tinsley has fallen from grace with the powers that be and some of you are going off of old comments.

It's my belief the Pacers aren't truly this hot on the trail of a PG to sit on the bench instead of start and play at crunch time of games.

...Of course I am just speculating too but I am asking you to look at the bigger picture.

-Bball

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 02:11 PM
Can someone help me with the former CBA rules? I thought you were barred from trading someone in the first year of a contract, the exception being in a sign-and-trade.

Is Tins even tradable under the old rules?

able
07-20-2005, 02:26 PM
Tins is BYC *Base Year Compensation, if those rules are the same under the new CBA.

This means his salary counts for half in a trade and the receiving team has to be able to "absorb" the remainder.

Trading Tins for "better" is as good as impossible.

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 02:29 PM
PERFECT - thanks for clearing that up Able! So we have to trade tins for someone with half the annual contract $ and still try to get more talent.

Good luck arguing this one out guys.

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 02:41 PM
If we trade Tinsley for someone with half the contract, but get close to 82 games out of him, aren't we getting more than equal value?

:uhoh:

HAHAHAHAHA

You mean someone like ... say ... Anthony Johnson?

Mourning
07-20-2005, 02:51 PM
Where the hell is Ragnar??? :uhoh:

Bball
07-20-2005, 02:51 PM
PERFECT - thanks for clearing that up Able! So we have to trade tins for someone with half the annual contract $ and still try to get more talent.

Good luck arguing this one out guys.

Well... if we outright sign his replacement from the FA pool then we don't need to worry much about who we trade Tinsley for. We'd just need a short term contract that would quickly be off the books (Assuming the Saras infatuation is indeed to replace Tinsley as I think it is).

We wouldn't need equal value or even a fair trade. We'd just be clearing long term salary. The hard part would be finding a team with the extra headroom to absorb the other part of Tinsley's salary.

-Bball

Los Angeles
07-20-2005, 02:57 PM
Well... if we outright sign his replacement from the FA pool then we don't need to worry much about who we trade Tinsley for. We'd just need a short term contract that would quickly be off the books (Assuming the Saras infatuation is indeed to replace Tinsley as I think it is).

We wouldn't need equal value or even a fair trade. We'd just be clearing long term salary. The hard part would be finding a team with the extra headroom to absorb the other part of Tinsley's salary.

-Bball
Good point.

EDIT - I totally misread your post. So my previous reply didn't make sense. Doh. :)

indygeezer
07-20-2005, 03:19 PM
We're thinking alike on this BBall, right down the line.

Do we not still have an exemption for losing Brezec in the Xpansion draft? Put that with Tins....

When would that expire....I know one year after the XD, but when was that?

able
07-20-2005, 03:23 PM
The question whether Saras can withstand the rigours of a full NBA season plus playoffs is one that hasn 't been answered yet, EU leagues are a lot shorter.

While under the assumption that Tinsley's injury proneness is the major reason to chase Saras or a suitable PG, (are we realy on te lookout for one? was that ever confirmed?) we forget to many "easier" arguements:

1. Tinsley can shoot the rock, he's proven that this season when his number was called, but...
2. Saras is a great shooter and....
3. both are clutch players, which Tins has proven in the NBA and Saras has yet to prove in the NBA, but......
4. If our 1st and 2nd PG were Tins and Saras, (and in reality I do not care who starts, as long as it is the best of the two) we would see less....
5. drop in play when Aj or Gill enters the game and...
6. the offense wouldn't grind to a halt with the second unit on the court and.......
7. with 20-24 minutes each they can BOTh stay fresher and.....
8. did i mention that he offense would keep running smooth and fast?

Would we then trade AJ? yes, as Bird said recently; the core is JO, Tins, Artest, Jax and though he will not say he will never trade any of those, he prefers to trade around them to fill the holes.
That was said just after the end of the season and it explains the hunt for Saras.

I can understand what Bball is saying I can not agree with the premise of that as IMO they are only looking to have a "Tinsley" on the floor 48 minutes.

If you read the number of wins with Tins on the floor and losses without you almost wonder who really is the mvp of this team, or as JO said: "Jamaal is the engine of the team, with him it all runs smooth"