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Shade
07-19-2005, 01:58 PM
These are the players we currently have under contract:

C - Foster/Harrison/Pollard
PF - O'Neal/Croshere
SF - Artest/Granger/Bender
SG - Jackson/FJones
PG - Tinsley/Johnson/Gill

We also have Reggie under contract, making a total of 14 players. 13 roster spots are taken, leaving two available.

We have three FAs:

Dale Davis, James Jones, and John Edwards.

If we cut Croshere, we could have up to three roster spots available to sign players. But we'd be down to only one PF.

So, let's assume we re-sign Dale, and get our hands on Saras. Who should we go after for our final spot if we release Cro? James Jones? Luis Scola? Brian Grant? Bonzi Wells? Jalen Rose? Michael Finley? Someone else?

Young
07-19-2005, 02:10 PM
C: Davis/Foster/Harrison/Pollard
PF: O'Neal
SF: Artest/Granger/Bender
SG: Jackson/Jones
PG: Tinsley/Saras/Johnson

Re-sign James Jones.

Trade Pollard for a PF.

Or

Sign Clifford Robinson

RWB
07-19-2005, 02:14 PM
Damn, after seeing what Shade posted that two spot does worry me. I like Freddie but?

Is that why Bird is so high on Sarunas? Sounds more like he might be using minutes at both guard spots.

Diamond Dave
07-19-2005, 02:20 PM
Bender and the 2006 1st round draft pick to the Hornets for PJ Brown.

or

go after Kyle Korver

or

go after Flip Murray

Tom White
07-19-2005, 02:22 PM
Damn, after seeing what Shade posted that two spot does worry me. I like Freddie but?

All the greater reason to re-sign James Jones as he provides depth at SG and SF.

If you look at the depth chart as Shade has it listed, there are plenty of areas to worry about. Croshere as the only backup to JO. A rookie and Bender backing up Artest. Center by committee.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-19-2005, 02:22 PM
In theory, Foster, Bender, Artest, and Dale can all play PF too...

foretaz
07-19-2005, 02:24 PM
Damn, after seeing what Shade posted that two spot does worry me. I like Freddie but?

Is that why Bird is so high on Sarunas? Sounds more like he might be using minutes at both guard spots.


ive said it before....if they sign saras, he almost certainly will see minutes at both guard spots....and u might see things be much more of a 3 guard rotation


i did a thread outlining some of the details of how it might work out....


http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219394&postcount=1

McClintic Sphere
07-19-2005, 02:30 PM
I'm not worried about the 2, because I still think Ronnie can slide over on occasion, esp. if Granger and Bender are playing. I'm more worried about the four spot and point gaurd. Shade's correct if we get rid of Cro we have no one backing up JO. Brian Grant would be a nice option for the right price. I still want a defensive stopper at the point when our gaurds are getting blown by with their matador D.

Anthem
07-19-2005, 04:42 PM
None of the remaining guards have matador D.

Looking at Shade's depth chart makes me want the Pacers to play hardball w/ Davis. At this point Cliffy is a better fit.

Los Angeles
07-19-2005, 04:49 PM
WAIT - all this roster talk and noone knows how many roster spots each team gets under the new CBA in the first place.

Let's not put the cart before the horse here.

Kegboy
07-19-2005, 05:00 PM
As I've said repeatedly, I'd rather have Cliffy than Dale.

That said, there's no point in getting both, unless we traded Jeff.

foretaz
07-19-2005, 05:12 PM
WAIT - all this roster talk and noone knows how many roster spots each team gets under the new CBA in the first place.

Let's not put the cart before the horse here.

why do we not know that?....

i thought it was very clear....

there will be 15 spots....14 active and 1 inactive player...

and odds are the inactive player can change from game to game....

there is no more injured reserve...

and i was not under the impression these were questionable?

did i miss something?

Los Angeles
07-19-2005, 05:26 PM
why do we not know that?....

i thought it was very clear....

there will be 15 spots....14 active and 1 inactive player...

and odds are the inactive player can change from game to game....

there is no more injured reserve...

and i was not under the impression these were questionable?

did i miss something?
You know, I may have been wrong, or not up on the subject.

First, please give me a break, and then please give me a link or something.

Also, I'll state again that your posting style just grates on me. You could have said that in an informative "just letting you know" kind of way. Instead, I can't help but feel that you're flaming me unnecessarily.

Isaac
07-19-2005, 05:27 PM
You know, I may have been wrong, or not up on the subject.

First, please give me a break, and then please give me a link or something.

Also, I'll state again that your posting style just grates on me. You could have said that in an informative "just letting you know" kind of way. Instead, I can't help but feel that you're flaming me unnecessarily.

I felt that's how the post was. Foretaz was just saying what he thought it was about, I too would have responded in a confused way like taz did.

foretaz
07-19-2005, 05:32 PM
You know, I may have been wrong, or not up on the subject.

First, please give me a break, and then please give me a link or something.

Also, I'll state again that your posting style just grates on me. You could have said that in an informative "just letting you know" kind of way. Instead, I can't help but feel that you're flaming me unnecessarily.

well...hmmm...

i can assure u there was not a flame even remotely intended....

if u read it that way, know it wasnt typed with that intent....

i was asking the question, did i miss something after stating it as i had known it to be...

forgive me if im not prone to try and post things with an explanation saying im not trying to flame...

i assume no one is going around trying to flame people...if u are on the lookout for such things that might explain it...

with me, i dont even consider the option someone might be trying to flame me....

i just read it as they are being sincere...as i was being....

ok...maybe with the exception of kstat and maybe any pistons fans... ;) :D

but any pacers fans i automatically assume we are all on the same side and have zero interest in flaming one another....i think u might be a bit overly sensitive with this regard.....but i dunno...

Bball
07-19-2005, 05:36 PM
I thought it was as foretaz stated and (FWIW) I didn't read any flaming into his reply to LA.

-Bball

Los Angeles
07-19-2005, 05:38 PM
I felt that's how the post was. Foretaz was just saying what he thought it was about, I too would have responded in a confused way like taz did.
Ah - "confusion" may have been what he was going for. Given foretaz's solid history of getting into it with other posters, I can't help but attach baggage and attitude where sometimes there is none. That's my fault.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I stand corrected ... carry on.

Gamble
07-19-2005, 07:38 PM
Can i flame someone,, ahhhhhh, thats nice.

Gamble
07-19-2005, 07:44 PM
So, let's assume we re-sign Dale, and get our hands on Saras. Who should we go after for our final spot if we release Cro? James Jones? Luis Scola? Brian Grant? Bonzi Wells? Jalen Rose? Michael Finley? Someone else?

So assuming we got Saras i would say go for Defense at PF. If Harrison
comes off the bench that will be our inside threat and God knows we have
enough everywhere else. Sounds good but how do we make it happen.

scar
07-19-2005, 07:53 PM
I like Reggie Evans.

I hope we sign Maurice Carter, also.

Skaut_Ech
07-19-2005, 07:58 PM
I can't call it anything other than a gut feeling, but I don't think Dale will be back. With roster spots being so tight. If I'm GM, I think it's time to let go. I don't see Dale giving us any truly meaningful minutes, despite his fortuitus signing last season. He came through for us when we needed it, but at his age, it might be wiser to focus on younger talent.

Donnie says his priority is signing ALL of our pending free agents. With Edwards and Jones being restricted free agents, we have a lot better chance keeping them. I gotta admit, Edwards is a bit of a cipher to me. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards_%28basketball_player%29)

Hmmm...wonder what Maceo Bastons doing? :idea2::chin2:;):laugh:

Shade
07-19-2005, 08:03 PM
I can't call it anything other than a gut feeling, but I don't think Dale will be back. With roster spots being so tight. If I'm GM, I think it's time to let go. I don't see Dale giving us any truly meaningful minutes, despite his fortuitus signing last season. He came through for us when we needed it, but at his age, it might be wiser to focus on younger talent.

Donnie says his priority is signing ALL of our pending free agents. With Edwards and Jones being restricted free agents, we have a lot better chance keeping them. I gotta admit, Edwards is a bit of a cipher to me. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards_%28basketball_player%29)

Hmmm...wonder what Maceo Bastons doing? :idea2::chin2:;):laugh:

And somewhere, Peck dies a little bit inside. :(

Seriously, though, I want DD back. I think he has plenty left to give this team, just at a lesser clip. He was forced to play much more than he should have last year.

I still remember the look of horror on Peck's face when I suggested the Pacers may let Dale go and re-sign Edwards instead. :eek:

BBALL56HACKER
07-19-2005, 08:07 PM
We can resign D.D. play him at PF with HARRISON at center in the 2nd unit. D.D. can bring the defence with HARRISON suppling the inside scoring. That combo could be quite good, just as J.O. & FOSTER works good together. Pacers would not need to waste money on adding any other PF`S.
FOSTER/HARRISON/POLLARD (for now)
J.O./ D.D./ CHROSHERE (if he is not bought out)
ARTEST/GRANGER/J.J.
JACKSON/F.JONES/(SARA)
TINSLEY/SARA/ A.J. (should be traded-value high)/GILL

I would not have a problem taking this line-up to NBA championship!!!!!!

Destined4Greatness
07-19-2005, 08:12 PM
Resign JJ and DD. Sign Maurice Carter just for the hell of it. After cuttin Cro

Play DD as second PF with Harrison. Offense and Defense in the second unit. And when harrison is ready he moves into the starting line-up and Foster joins the second unit.

PacerNation
07-19-2005, 08:13 PM
You know, I may have been wrong, or not up on the subject.

First, please give me a break, and then please give me a link or something.

Also, I'll state again that your posting style just grates on me. You could have said that in an informative "just letting you know" kind of way. Instead, I can't help but feel that you're flaming me unnecessarily.



Your comment provides a perfect opportunity for the question that has been burning deep inside of me for a couple weeks now.

This is off topic so I only ask FORETAZ to respond as the question is directed at him:

Since May, you have posted 1,276 times (and counting). I'm just curious as to what you do all day. How do you find the time to be such a prolific poster?

This is genuine curiosity - I could care less about the quality of your posts (good or bad - I make no judgements); what is your station in life that allows you to post the way you do?

Signed,

Amazed in Indy

Shade
07-19-2005, 08:13 PM
We can resign D.D. play him at PF with HARRISON at center in the 2nd unit. D.D. can bring the defence with HARRISON suppling the inside scoring. That combo could be quite good, just as J.O. & FOSTER works good together. Pacers would not need to waste money on adding any other PF`S.
FOSTER/HARRISON/POLLARD (for now)
J.O./ D.D./ CHROSHERE (if he is not bought out)
ARTEST/GRANGER/J.J.
JACKSON/F.JONES/(SARA)
TINSLEY/SARA/ A.J. (should be traded-value high)/GILL

I would not have a problem taking this line-up to NBA championship!!!!!!

Sounds good to me. We would be 3 deep at EVERY position. :nod:

Bball
07-19-2005, 08:14 PM
I still remember the look of horror on Peck's face when I suggested the Pacers may let Dale go and re-sign Edwards instead. :eek:

Oh my... that actual sentence drove home the fact it could happen that way.

I knew there was a chance Dale could be too expensive for what the Pacers would pay out and I knew Edwards fills the role of "7' white guy that will never get any minutes" that the Pacers seem to always covet... but I never actually put the two things together in my mind until now.

Edwards.... Hmmm... And to think I've been biatching about Bender wasting a roster spot....

-Bball

Will Galen
07-19-2005, 08:38 PM
We can resign D.D. play him at PF with HARRISON at center in the 2nd unit. D.D. can bring the defence with HARRISON suppling the inside scoring. That combo could be quite good, just as J.O. & FOSTER works good together. Pacers would not need to waste money on adding any other PF`S.
FOSTER/HARRISON/POLLARD (for now)
J.O./ D.D./ CHROSHERE (if he is not bought out)
ARTEST/GRANGER/J.J.
JACKSON/F.JONES/(SARA)
TINSLEY/SARA/ A.J. (should be traded-value high)/GILL

I would not have a problem taking this line-up to NBA championship!!!!!!

This is my thinking on power forward, although it remains to be seen if it would work.

As for Sarunas, if we sign him he could back up both Jax and Tins. Then we would use AJ and Fred when and where needed.

Edwards and Gill would be gone.

Shade
07-19-2005, 08:41 PM
This is my thinking on power forward, although it remains to be seen if it would work.

As for Sarunas, if we sign him he could back up both Jax and Tins. Then we would use AJ and Fred when and where needed.

Edwards and Gill would be gone.

Gill is on the roster unless we cut him and pay his salary, or trade him.

Anthem
07-19-2005, 08:44 PM
So, how's this shake out? Barring a trade, the following guys will all be on the team: Foster, Harrison, Pollard, O'Neal, Artest, Granger, Jackson, Freddy, Tinsley, and Johnson. That's 10, with 5 spots remaining. Those spots need to go to some combination of Croshere, Bender, Gill, JJ, Sauron, DD, Cliffy, Edwards, Mo, and Snap.

That's 10 guys for 5 spots. If I was to pick 5, I'd take Edwards, Cliffy, JJ, Snap, and Sauron for our roster spots 11-15. That's a pretty decent 3rd team. Does anyone disagree with those 5, in principle? If money wasn't an issue, I'd take Croshere over Edwards, but I'd rather have Edwards at the minimum than Croshere at $8 mil per. If we're just talking about this year, I'd take Dale over Edwards as well, but if Dale wants more than the minimum (which I think he will) I'm not interested.

Roster is:

Foster / Harrison / Pollard / Edwards
JO / Cliffy
Ron / Granger / JJ
Jax / Fred / Snap
Tins / Sauron / AJ

Does anyone disagree with that?

Shade
07-19-2005, 08:51 PM
So, how's this shake out? Barring a trade, the following guys will all be on the team: Foster, Harrison, Pollard, O'Neal, Artest, Granger, Jackson, Freddy, Tinsley, and Johnson. That's 10, with 5 spots remaining. Those spots need to go to some combination of Croshere, Bender, Gill, JJ, Sauron, DD, Cliffy, Edwards, Mo, and Snap.

That's 10 guys for 5 spots. If I was to pick 5, I'd take Edwards, Cliffy, JJ, Snap, and Sauron for our roster spots 11-15. That's a pretty decent 3rd team. Does anyone disagree with those 5, in principle? If money wasn't an issue, I'd take Croshere over Edwards, but I'd rather have Edwards at the minimum than Croshere at $8 mil per. If we're just talking about this year, I'd take Dale over Edwards as well, but if Dale wants more than the minimum (which I think he will) I'm not interested.

Roster is:

Foster / Harrison / Pollard / Edwards
JO / Cliffy
Ron / Granger / JJ
Jax / Fred / Snap
Tins / Sauron / AJ

Does anyone disagree with that?

Cro, Bender, and Gill are already on the roster, too. We would have to cut Cro to open up to 3 spots. Bender and Gill are under contract.

And, Edwards over DD? :suicide:

Will Galen
07-19-2005, 08:53 PM
Your comment provides a perfect opportunity for the question that has been burning deep inside of me for a couple weeks now.

This is off topic so I only ask FORETAZ to respond as the question is directed at him:

Since May, you have posted 1,276 times (and counting). I'm just curious as to what you do all day. How do you find the time to be such a prolific poster?

This is genuine curiosity - I could care less about the quality of your posts (good or bad - I make no judgements); what is your station in life that allows you to post the way you do?

Signed,

Amazed in Indy

I noticed that too. Taz is like KStat in that he gets a lot of posts from arguing points. Both are good guys, but both like to argue.

What you have to do with those two guys it just argue one point at a time. Don't try to make several points because they are good at taking a minor point and running with it and either ignoring your major point, or sidestepping it.

foretaz
07-19-2005, 08:55 PM
Your comment provides a perfect opportunity for the question that has been burning deep inside of me for a couple weeks now.

This is off topic so I only ask FORETAZ to respond as the question is directed at him:

Since May, you have posted 1,276 times (and counting). I'm just curious as to what you do all day. How do you find the time to be such a prolific poster?

This is genuine curiosity - I could care less about the quality of your posts (good or bad - I make no judgements); what is your station in life that allows you to post the way you do?

Signed,

Amazed in Indy

hmmm...well as one poster likes to tell me...my 20 rather lengthy posts every day are tiring and exhausting....

actually they are neither to me...

i dunno....i type very fast....and i read very quickly....and as ive stated before....i dont look at these as journalistic works of art.....im just typing thoughts as they come to me on whatever the subject is im responding to...

if i do make 20 posts a day....id say those 20 posts definitely take less than an hour a day...something most of u might find difficult to believe...

im not sure what ur really after...if its about my private life...well i choose, like most to keep that private....

the pacers are a priority of mine....have been for many many years....we all have time for whatever we want...i want time for my pacers...

i very much enjoy discussion about them....and as such, this is the best place ive found to do that...

i think the big difference might be this....i think alot of people have a lot of thoughts that never reach the board....for a number of reasons...whether they dont want to put forth the time and effort to type them because they find that cumbersome...or they dont want to express them to others...or they re worried about what sort of impression or what others might think about them or their thoughts....

none of these are the case for me...

i cant imagine reading a thread and not having a thought...though it does happen....

so more often times than not, i put that thought on the board...

i dont think i spend much more time than some others on here...and i believe some others have similar daily posting numbers as well...the other thing is ive been around just about every day since i joined....no vacations or whatever, or not many days when i didnt contribute at least a bit....

Bball
07-19-2005, 08:58 PM
I'll say it again... IF the Pacers are really pursuing Saras it is not to backup Tinsley. The starting job will have his name on it and sooner rather than later he'll get his shot at it.

It's not AJ who needs to worry about his role.... unless it is losing the backup slot to Tinsley.

I'll go one step further into speculation land... If the Pacers really are pulling back from pursuing Saras it is because they aren't finding a suitor for Tinsley and they were going to trade him (or some deal hasn't materialized that would've included Tinsley).

No way the Pacers make the waves they did on this for a backup.

-Bball

sweabs
07-19-2005, 08:58 PM
Well, since we're on the topic, I just want to say I've personally enjoyed your posts, foretaz. You've brought a lot of interesting discussions/debates to the table these past couple of months and I enjoy reading them.

foretaz
07-19-2005, 08:58 PM
I noticed that too. Taz is like KStat in that he gets a lot of posts from arguing points. Both are good guys, but both like to argue.

What you have to do with those two guys it just argue one point at a time. Don't try to make several points because they are good at taking a minor point and running with it and either ignoring your major point, or sidestepping it.

god.....please dont say that....the sound of it, just.....well....

foretaz
07-19-2005, 09:03 PM
Well, since we're on the topic, I just want to say I've personally enjoyed your posts, foretaz. You've brought a lot of interesting discussions/debates to the table these past couple of months and I enjoy reading them.

well...im glad u feel that way....i very much enjoy the discussion here...theres a great deal of knowledgeable people here....i know thats said alot but its very true....and i try to let them know on a semi regular basis, but many thanks are due hicks and able for providing this site....and not only do they provide the site, but ive been very impressed with the way the site is run...

Anthem
07-19-2005, 11:26 PM
Cro, Bender, and Gill are already on the roster, too. We would have to cut Cro to open up to 3 spots. Bender and Gill are under contract.

And, Edwards over DD? :suicide:

Edwards knocked Bogut down. When was the last time Dale knocked somebody down? If Dale will take the minimum, then great. But if he's seriously wanting much more, then it's not worth it. He won't be in the rotation.

And I'm not asking about how we'd do it. I'm just asking if everyone agrees that those are the best 5 players of those 10.

Shade
07-19-2005, 11:28 PM
Edwards knocked Bogut down. When was the last time Dale knocked somebody down? If Dale will take the minimum, then great. But if he's seriously wanting much more, then it's not worth it. He won't be in the rotation.

And I'm not asking about how we'd do it. I'm just asking if everyone agrees that those are the best 5 players of those 10.

So, you're still asking if Edwards is better than DD, since he's amongst the "best 5 players" and Dale isn't?

HELL NO.

Bball
07-19-2005, 11:30 PM
Dale seemed to be mighty popular with the fans in Conseco last year (or maybe Peck was just making extra noise). Can Dale make a difference at the box office? Lord knows Edwards won't.

-Bball

purdue101
07-20-2005, 12:02 AM
best case scenario would have us splitting the MLE between sarunas and JJ and DD taking the vet. min.

only way i give DD more than the vet. min is if we sign sarunas with some of the MLE and the remainder of it is not enough to match a JJ offer and he walks. then i would just give the remainder of the the MLE to DD over 2, maybe 3 years.

we would then need a little more SG/SF depth and could probably use AJ and or pollard as bait.......i wouldn't mind doug christie....he'd come cheap too. rose, finley, & houston off waivers also come to mind.

bottom line, i really like JJ but i think sarunas should be priority #1. our bench scoring was awful last year and our offense had a major kink with AJ running PG. JJ could be a solid role player but i don't see him ever becoming much more than a 5-10 min sub on our roster, especially after adding granger.

say we are able to split the MLE between JJ and sarunas and DD refuses to take the vet. min. then we need to find a PF for the vet. min (crossing fingers for cliffy) or use AJ and/or pollard to get a backup PF or get a PF off waivers (maybe brian grant)

sarunas, JJ, DD are my priorities in that order if i'm LB.

foretaz
07-20-2005, 01:46 AM
best case scenario would have us splitting the MLE between sarunas and JJ and DD taking the vet. min.

only way i give DD more than the vet. min is if we sign sarunas with some of the MLE and the remainder of it is not enough to match a JJ offer and he walks. then i would just give the remainder of the the MLE to DD over 2, maybe 3 years.

we would then need a little more SG/SF depth and could probably use AJ and or pollard as bait.......i wouldn't mind doug christie....he'd come cheap too. rose, finley, & houston off waivers also come to mind.

bottom line, i really like JJ but i think sarunas should be priority #1. our bench scoring was awful last year and our offense had a major kink with AJ running PG. JJ could be a solid role player but i don't see him ever becoming much more than a 5-10 min sub on our roster, especially after adding granger.

say we are able to split the MLE between JJ and sarunas and DD refuses to take the vet. min. then we need to find a PF for the vet. min (crossing fingers for cliffy) or use AJ and/or pollard to get a backup PF or get a PF off waivers (maybe brian grant)

sarunas, JJ, DD are my priorities in that order if i'm LB.

this has been touched on before, but just as a reminder....the pacers re-signing of jj has no bearing on the MLE....they can resign JJ for 5 million a year if they want and they still have the full MLE left to address saras and dd or anyone else they would like...they are able to do this because they have 'early bird rights' on JJ

now the size of the payroll is a different story....we do that and we are inching ever closer to the knicks :D :devil: :devil: :mad: :mad:

Anthem
07-20-2005, 10:56 AM
So, you're still asking if Edwards is better than DD, since he's amongst the "best 5 players" and Dale isn't?

Fine. We're looking at 5 of Croshere, Bender, Gill, JJ, Sauron, DD, Cliffy, Edwards, Mo, and Snap.

Are the 5 best players DD, Cliffy, JJ, Snap, and Sauron? Or would you swap Mo for Snap?

I was trying to point out that I'd rather unload Croshere AND Bender, not just either one, and I think it's borne out by the fact that nobody's arguing that they're in the top 5 of our list.

Shade
07-20-2005, 11:43 AM
Fine. We're looking at 5 of Croshere, Bender, Gill, JJ, Sauron, DD, Cliffy, Edwards, Mo, and Snap.

Are the 5 best players DD, Cliffy, JJ, Snap, and Sauron? Or would you swap Mo for Snap?

I was trying to point out that I'd rather unload Croshere AND Bender, not just either one, and I think it's borne out by the fact that nobody's arguing that they're in the top 5 of our list.

In that case, I still keep Bender instead of Snap. Otherwise, I agree on the other four.

McClintic Sphere
07-20-2005, 03:41 PM
i dunno....i type very fast....and i read very quickly....and as ive stated before....i dont look at these as journalistic works of art.....im just typing thoughts as they come to me on whatever the subject is im responding to...

...

I have always found your posts to be well thought and a reasonable and you are obviously knowledgable about the Pacers and the NBA but............Did you have a creative writing class or something where they emphasized ellipses as stylistically important? That and you seemed to have taken spelling classes from early Prince albums with the Urs(for you are) and what not, or you like e.e. cummings or something. It can be a bit of an eyesore.