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8.9_seconds
07-18-2005, 05:04 PM
In the late eighties and Early nineties Jerry Krause built one of the best and most recognizable teams in the league, the Chicago Bulls. The Bulls under the management of Krause (though criticized) and coaching of Phil Jackson won 6 NBA championships in the '90s. The formula for these championship was devised in the early days with the acquisition of Michael Jordan, it was simple build a team of complimentary players to aid Michael.

What I'm getting at by stating this is: Are there any stars in the league now that with the right supporting cast could be of Michael Jordan calliber and legendary status? Jordan really wasn't a star until he was paired with the championship teams, and though a consistent player, was never allowed to play to his full potential at North Carolina. I was thinking along the lines if a Paul Pierce possibly.

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:08 PM
First of all, Krause didn't draft Jordan.

Secondly, Jordan was a superstar on a 30-win team. He set the NBA record for single game playoff scoring with 63, playing 2 on 5 against the one of the greatest tems of all time.

His 3rd year, he averaged 37 points a game, and topped 50 points like 15 times.

Now, he wasn't a WINNER until Scottie and Horace came along, but Jordan was dominating the NBA with or without help. TO say he wasn't a star without those guys is just not correct. He was a star from the second he stepped on the floor in 1984.

Paul Pierce could be ona team with Kobe and Shaq, and he STILL wouldn't be do what Jordan did.

LeBron James is definately a player that can take over a game like Jordan, Larry and Magic did. I don't see anybody else in that category.

Unclebuck
07-18-2005, 05:11 PM
Michael Jrodan became a huge star his rookie season when he scored 63 points against the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs. Yes the Celts won in three straight games, but at that time MJ became the most popular player in the NBA.


PP certainly is not that type of player. Lebron might be, Shaq to a certain degree is.

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:12 PM
He scored the 63 in his 2nd season, UB. Just nitpicking.

8.9_seconds
07-18-2005, 05:14 PM
First of all, Krause didn't draft Jordan.

Secondly, Jordan was a superstar on a 30-win team. He set the NBA record for single game playoff scoring with 63, playing 2 on 5 against the one of the greatest tems of all time.

Good way to put it.

Unclebuck
07-18-2005, 05:15 PM
He scored the 63 in his 2nd season, UB. Just nitpicking.


Oh yeh, that was the season he came back from the knee injury. My memory of Jordan is he was a star a huge star by Thnaksgiving of his rookie season.

dannyboy
07-18-2005, 05:16 PM
Tim Duncan?

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:17 PM
Good way to put it.


You never said he wasn't a winner, though. You said he wasn't a STAR.

8.9_seconds
07-18-2005, 05:19 PM
Any star potential with the Pacers? I mean I guess we have tons of potential, but do you have enough to activate it into gear. You could make the argument for JO, but he's been here 4 seasons, and it hasn't happened.

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:22 PM
Any star potential with the Pacers? I mean I guess we have tons of potential, but do you have enough to activate it into gear. You could make the argument for JO, but he's been here 4 seasons, and it hasn't happened.

I think this thread was doomed when you said "Michael Jordan potential."

No player in the NBA outside of LeBron is even CAPABLE of being half as dominant as he was, supporting cast or not. If a true all-time great is destined to be that dominant, he shows it from day one, regardless of what team he's on. It doesn't take good teamates to bring it out.

Unclebuck
07-18-2005, 05:22 PM
I guess it depends on your definition of a "star"

We actually haven't had this discussion in quite awhile. Star v Superstar.

I think J.O is a star. Which I define as a perennal allstar. J.O is not a superstar.

Sollozzo
07-18-2005, 05:22 PM
Michael Jrodan became a huge star his rookie season when he scored 63 points against the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs. Yes the Celts won in three straight games, but at that time MJ became the most popular player in the NBA.


PP certainly is not that type of player. Lebron might be, Shaq to a certain degree is.


I don't know, I think Shaq's days of dominating teams are over. Shaq couldn't even score 30 points in one playoff game this year. I know he was hurt, but he was complaining about his toe in 2002, and managed to kick the hell out of Sacramento and New Jersey.

All Shaq has to do is totally dominate game 6 or game 7 against Detroit, and Miami most likely advances to the NBA finals. Game 7 was the perfect chance, Wade was playing. Shaq scored 27, but that's not enough. If he goes out there and kills Detroit for 35-40, Miami probably wins that game. But he couldn't do that. They brought Shaq down there to dominate a game like that. He didn't get the job done.

Now, I think Shaq will be a 20-23 point guy as his career winds down. It will be rare to see him go over that. Shaq is aging, and it's obvious. He's still the best center in the NBA, without a doubl.

Lebron is the one guy in the NBA that is on Jordan's level. If he can just get some decent guys around him, the Pacers, Pistons, and Heat are in trouble.

8.9_seconds
07-18-2005, 05:22 PM
You never said he wasn't a winner, though. You said he wasn't a STAR.


Yeah, I know I liked the way you categorized it into Star and Winner, but I think that he was a star, but not of Iconic status that he was later like....I wanna be like Mike.

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:24 PM
Yeah, I know I liked the way you categorized it into Star and Winner, but I think that he was a star, but not of Iconic status that he was later like....I wanna be like Mike.


Actually, I believe that song was written during the 1991 playoffs, but before Jordan won his first ring.

and BTW, Jordan was iconic when "air jordans" went flying off the shelves in 1986. Jordan was the biggest media star in the league by year 3, year 4 at the most.

waxman
07-18-2005, 05:26 PM
What year did Jordan break his foot and missed a portion of the year....his first or second? In any case,, Jordan was the man from the moment he stepped on the court , even when he was playing next to Orlando Woolridge and Brad Sellers....rather than Pip.

Anybody remember the Iceman playing some of his last days with the Bulls?

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:28 PM
it was his 2nd year. He missed 70 games.

8.9_seconds
07-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Ok, if you take Michael Jordan out of the eqation, because I guess obviously you can't compare him to anything.

Is there one young Player in the league that will breakout and carry a dynasty-type team on his shoulders similar to MJ?

Will Galen
07-18-2005, 05:50 PM
Ok, if you take Michael Jordan out of the eqation, because I guess obviously you can't compare him to anything.

Is there one young Player in the league that will breakout and carry a dynasty-type team on his shoulders similar to MJ?


If dynasty means three or more championships there are several, LaBron and Wade probably being the best young guys.

What if the Pacers would get three championships with their present team, who would get the most credit, JO or Ron?


I guess it depends on your definition of a "star"

We actually haven't had this discussion in quite awhile. Star v Superstar.

I think J.O is a star. Which I define as a perennal allstar. J.O is not a superstar.


My ranking of players.

Star] Someone that stars on his team.

All Star] Someone who makes the All Star team.

Super Star] Someone that takes over the game and can score in the last two minutes, AND leads his team to championships.

Kstat
07-18-2005, 05:52 PM
Star] Someone that stars on his team.

A star is someone that stars? Thanks for clearing that up. :laugh:

waxman
07-18-2005, 06:05 PM
Skill wise. LeBron.... maybe Wade are the only thing close... What seperates the Jordans, Birds, Magics... is Mental Toughness. We don't know where LeBron and the younglings stand at this point. They need to go through some tough playoff series first. Wade has a step in that department.

Jordan and Pippen were dominant on both sides of the ball ....The Bulls were a great defensive team...they didn't commit turnovers and the role players were superb. Their little guys could shoot and scrap....their bigs could rebound and play D... the rest was up to Jordan, Pippen and the Zen master.... oh and maybe the refs on occasion.

akpacer
07-18-2005, 06:20 PM
Amare looks like he might fit the bill. He has been putting up big numbers since day one....