PDA

View Full Version : What player(s) would you take for JO?



McKeyFan
07-18-2005, 12:09 AM
The current thread on the Artest New York Times article gives brief discussion to keeping Artest and trading JO. Fortaz even suggested trading JO and Tinsley together.

The point being that these trades scenarios open up huge possibilities for players and combinations of players that we ordinarily cannot entertain.

Who would you take for JO? For JO and Tinsley? There's been a lot of talk about only taking Garnett, Duncan or possibly Shaq for JO. Fine. But what about all the other teams? Seeing that we could pluck the best players from every team in the league in a JO trade, who would you consider? Who should the Pacers consider?

pacerwaala
07-18-2005, 12:11 AM
only KG

canyoufeelit
07-18-2005, 12:11 AM
Elton Brand. Jermaine O'Neal is not soft, but EB would make the team tougher. Takes shots going towards the basket instead of away from the basket ;)

SoupIsGood
07-18-2005, 12:12 AM
It depends upon if I am trading away healthy Jermaine or fadeaway Jermaine. :confused:

sweabs
07-18-2005, 12:24 AM
KG and Duncan are the obvious choices.

My next choice, as has been mentioned above, would be Elton Brand. I love his game and aggressive/relentless attitude which I believe, would strongly benefit the Pacers and positively affect the rest of the players.

Another name that I have thrown out there countless times, and some have probably become sick of hearing from me, is Chris Bosh. This kid is truly special, and has a lot of room to grow as a player. He's mature, and has a very high basketball IQ. He is an extremely talented athlete, who can do things on the offensive and defensive ends. My only problem with him would be his size - I'd love to pair him up with a big body in the middle (perhaps Harrison could become that guy). Although, KG is not huge by any means either.

The thing about Bosh is that he could very well leave the Raptors after this year. He has definitely hinted towards that in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave. This is a guy who wants to WIN - very badly. This is a kid who was crying at the end of the bench during a game at the end of last season in New York...after losing maybe their 6th or 7th in a row only to be eliminated before the playoffs even began. These are just very appealing characteristics to me.

Amare Stoudemire is another guy I'd trade JO for. But that really has no possibility. The Brand and Bosh trades, however, I can see being realistic.

foretaz
07-18-2005, 12:35 AM
typically, anytime teams trade a superstar, the team that trades the multiple players in return, even if its a lesser superstar, come out on the winning side....ie. miami with shaq, houston with mcgrady, jersey with carter....

however, these are all done with superstars that are very unhappy and are demanding a trade....

rarely, do teams trade a superstar if they dont have to-that superstar demanding it....

but given the impending luxury tax situation....having the very high priced superstar is going to become tougher and tougher to justify....

but there will always be teams that would be very interested....and not unlike the dale trade for jo, if u could get younger and better at the same time, especially insuring ur future, then it might be something that is worth entertaining, but only after it becomes apparent artest and oneal will never be able to coexist in a way that will lend itself to success...i still believe jo and artest are the real way to get a title here as quickly as possible....

and yes.....kg is the easy one....and im on record as saying kg would make this team even better than jo does, given the system....

but besides that, trades that might make sense would have to be ones that would seemingly make the team better, despite trading away a superstar...getting a substantial amount of talent combined with draft picks could be very tempting....

someone mentioned brand...not the worst idea in the world....hes a great player but comes at roughly 2/3 the price of jo....which would enable u to get a fair chunk of additional talent....the new cba will allow 125% back in return...meaning we could bring back 20 million in return for only jo....if we were to trade jo and tins we could take back nearly 27 million....

so brand and livingston and wilcox and jaric etc plus draft picks would be a start....

u could do something similar maybe with new orleans....getting magloire, pj brown, and chris paul plus fodder and draft picks....

or atlanta with harrington or marvin williams, joe johnson, fodder, and picks

the key is its very much like the dale trade, just on a bit grander scale....

there is definitely an art to trading guys in this league at the right time....instead of always waiting till its too late...then being stuck with a contract where the guy isnt worth it....just look at all the albatros contracts out there....now while i dont believe jo's contract is going to be in that category for the life of the contract, in this day and age of the luxury tax, if u could get at least two great players in return for the similar salary, u could make a strong argument for that....and the way u do that is typically by getting guys that are younger and therefore are making less money as dictated by the cba....

Bball
07-18-2005, 12:37 AM
The current thread on the Artest New York Times article gives brief discussion to keeping Artest and trading JO. Fortaz even suggested trading JO and Tinsley together.

The point being that these trades scenarios open up huge possibilities for players and combinations of players that we ordinarily cannot entertain.



Don't stop there... throw in Bender! That should get us Duncan and Ginobli! ;)

-Bball

foretaz
07-18-2005, 12:42 AM
Don't stop there... throw in Bender! That should get us Duncan and Ginobli! ;)

-Bball

the interesting part about that comment is this.....

if either bender or harrison could become a decent, dependable player it would make trading jo a bit easier....dont need to be great, but one of them turning into a solid contributor would really be a huge plus....

obviously harrison would appear closer to doing that, but u just cant ever tell....its pretty tough to predict health, but based on past history, it doesnt look so pretty where bender is concerned....but who knows....

Jermaniac
07-18-2005, 12:42 AM
KG and Tim Duncan

Jaydawg2270
07-18-2005, 12:47 AM
nobody i like the team the way it is

Young
07-18-2005, 12:48 AM
- KG
- Brand
- Bosh

They are probably the only guys, I can't think of any other.

I wouldn't be suprised, if we were to trade JO, if the Pacers went after Brand. He posts similar numbers but is cheaper. Brand is scheduled to make 13 million and some odd dollars next season while JO is on track to make 16 million and some. Only 3 million dollars diffrence but add up all the money the Simons would save over the course of the years left on the deals and it is a huge plus. I bet they would save atleast 10 million once you figure in the luxury tax.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/elton_brand/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html

While it is alright to talk abou trade possiabilties lets all be real, we will not trade Jermaine. Maybe, maybe if Kevin wants out of Minnesota but the Clippers have no reason to trade Elton for Jermaine, Jermaine isn't that much better than Elton. We would probably have to add Tinsley to make it worth it for them. Which wouldn't happen. Also, Toronto won't be trading Bosh. He posts good stats and is alot cheaper than Jermaine for the time being. He is there franchise player and they will stick with him for a little bit IMO.

A name no one has mentioned is Dirk Nowitzki but no way Dallas trades him.

EDIT: I have alot of time on my hands so I add up the year by year salaries for JO and Brand and there is a 40 million dollar diffrence in what there salaries will be. [JO is signed for one more year.] Am I adding this up wrong and hit to many zeros or something?

Bball
07-18-2005, 01:29 AM
the interesting part about that comment is this.....

if either bender or harrison could become a decent, dependable player it would make trading jo a bit easier....dont need to be great, but one of them turning into a solid contributor would really be a huge plus....

obviously harrison would appear closer to doing that, but u just cant ever tell....its pretty tough to predict health, but based on past history, it doesnt look so pretty where bender is concerned....but who knows....

It's not just injuries holding Bender back. He's just not that good of a basketball player in the first place. Couple that with the issue of whether he even has a natural position on the court where he wouldn't be a defensive liability.

I'll grant you, if he wasn't hurt, he could jump. And nobody stands behind the 3 point line and looks as lost as Bender either.... that's a special talent right there.

-Bball

Unclebuck
07-18-2005, 09:43 AM
I would think before anyone would want to trade J.O for Brand, they would want to see Brand play in one playoff game. Brand is a nice player, but J.O is just better.

diamonddave00
07-18-2005, 09:50 AM
Have to agree with UB. Brand has put up great stats but has yet to play for a winner in the NBA.

To me at pf , I'd only rank Duncan and KG above Jermaine.

Amare Stoudamire is more athletic but still a very weak defender. Amare has the potential to be better but he isn't yet.

Chris Bosh , is still too physically weak , can still be manhandled inside. But he appears to have the potential to improve and will get bigger.

At this point on a contender I'll stick with JO over any pf except Duncan and KG. Ask me the same question in a year or two , may be a far different answer tho.

3ptmiller
07-18-2005, 09:51 AM
Dirk Nowitzki

diamonddave00
07-18-2005, 10:05 AM
Let me know the next time Dirk Nowizki plays defense. I'll take note he did .

diamonddave00
07-18-2005, 10:15 AM
foretaz , a couple little notes on cheap - poor mans JO- Zach Randolph. He signed a new 6 year deal totalling $83 million last season.He also had knee surgery last winter.

Another check with anyone in Marion area, for a little background check on Zach Randolph , his being involved in shooting incedent last summer is not his 1st brush with the law.

Plus Zach . plays ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE, he is also even more of a black whole than JO when he gets the ball on offense.

As for Theo Ratliff , Theo gives you 5 ppg and 5 rpg for the low , low cost of $11,666,000 each of the next 3 years.

I really don't think 22 mil this season and even more the next 3 years is worth that risk.

Unclebuck
07-18-2005, 10:31 AM
Dirk Nowitzki



If the Pacers were to trade Ron for Peja and J.O for Dirk, my worst nightmare would come true. It would be 1991 all over again. A soft team that cannot play defense.

That won't happen

ChicagoJ
07-18-2005, 11:12 AM
There's no way I'd take Brand for JO. He's undersized and he can't lead a team with a full roster to the playoffs. In fact, Brand probably won't make the playoffs until he's somebody's sixthman, or at least the third-option on his team.

I'd take Duncan and KG, of course. I'd think about Dirk. You'd need to pair Dirk with a really rugged defender, which was Dallas' theoretical reason for overpaying Dampier. Didn't work out, but the theory was right.

Fool
07-18-2005, 12:44 PM
Did I hear someone say "Darko"?

Tim
07-18-2005, 12:55 PM
I would think before anyone would want to trade J.O for Brand, they would want to see Brand play in one playoff game. Brand is a nice player, but J.O is just better.

Exactly.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-18-2005, 01:10 PM
I'll say it again: I would trade JO for any decent PF... JO=regular season wonder... kinda like KG..

Hoop
07-19-2005, 06:31 PM
I'll say it again: I would trade JO for any decent PF... JO=regular season wonder... kinda like KG..
Sorry, you're hopelessly misguided. :hmm:

aceace
07-19-2005, 07:51 PM
Dirk Nowitzki
http://www.arbeitslosenverwaltung.de/pics/gifs/puke.gif

Jermaniac
07-19-2005, 08:24 PM
I'll say it again: I would trade JO for any decent PF... JO=regular season wonder... kinda like KG..Well in that case we should just trade every player on this team. Cause so far all this team has done is be a regular season wonder

McKeyFan
07-19-2005, 10:42 PM
I wouldn't trade for Nowitzki. His offense is mostly from the outside, and we don't need that as much as we need a consistent inside threat.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-19-2005, 10:47 PM
Sorry, you're hopelessly misguided. :hmm:

yep... :)

GO!!!!!
07-19-2005, 11:17 PM
No One at all, We have the best team and when Healthy we will have the depth and skills to beat everyone ...

Los Angeles
07-19-2005, 11:21 PM
OK, I'll play along.

What players would I take for JO?

Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, or Shaq.

Something tells me that JO himself would have respect enough for all of those guys to not mind me saying it.

Would I do it? Probably not. O'Neal's at home, and home is where I want him to stay.

Kegboy
07-20-2005, 12:16 AM
No offense guys, but I've just lost respect for everyone who said Brand. Unless you meant Miles Brand. As a Purdue fan, I must admit he's pretty cool. ;)

I refuse to even acknowledge the Dirk mention.

SoupIsGood
07-20-2005, 12:18 AM
I would trade JO for Harrison. David, Harrison.

Kegboy
07-20-2005, 12:36 AM
I would trade JO for Harrison. David, Harrison.

See, I thought you meant Marvin there, for a second.

Who's this David guy, btw?

foretaz
05-09-2006, 04:55 AM
There's no way I'd take Brand for JO. He's undersized and he can't lead a team with a full roster to the playoffs. In fact, Brand probably won't make the playoffs until he's somebody's sixthman, or at least the third-option on his team.

I'd take Duncan and KG, of course. I'd think about Dirk. You'd need to pair Dirk with a really rugged defender, which was Dallas' theoretical reason for overpaying Dampier. Didn't work out, but the theory was right.

;)

317Kim
05-09-2006, 06:27 AM
JO for Nobody. :) He's a great guy.

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2006, 07:26 AM
JO for Nobody. :) He's a great guy.

Who's Nobody playing for again?

(I know he's our next GM: Q - Who can fix the Knicks? A - Nobody.)

And Nobody can stop Lebron or Kobe, guard Shaq when he gets the ball deep in the post, get everyone in the Pacers locker room to sing Kumbaya ...

Unclebuck
05-09-2006, 08:32 AM
I would think before anyone would want to trade J.O for Brand, they would want to see Brand play in one playoff game. Brand is a nice player, but J.O is just better.



Oops. why wasn't this one of the threads that just disappeared.


The one time I agree with Jay, and it turns out we're both wrong. Never again I tell you

Slick Pinkham
05-09-2006, 09:35 AM
KG, Brand, Kobe, Wade, LeBron for sure :)

Bosh, Nash, Nowitsky, Dwight Howard, Marion, Carmelo, Paul Pierce maybe

A package of Ben Gordon + Tyson Chandler + a lottery draft pick: yes also

ChicagoJ
05-09-2006, 09:41 AM
Oops. why wasn't this one of the threads that just disappeared.

The one time I agree with Jay, and it turns out we're both wrong. Never again I tell you

You said it first. That's the last time I'll ever agree with you.

:tongue:

ChicagoJ
05-09-2006, 10:03 AM
ADDENDUM -

This appears to be the only thing I was wrong about last summer.

And we certainly didn't know that the Clippers would significantly upgrade thier backcourt with Cassell and Mobley, and that Kaman would continue to emerge.

Brand certainly did not make the playoffs on his own. The Clippers surrounded him with a bunch of nice, complimentary talent. I wonder what JO could do if the Pacers ever surrounded him with complimentary talent?

Foretaz, you wouldn't be trying to tell us that Brands 18-22, 40 point, 9 rebound, only two points in the last 8.5 minutes game against the Suns weak front court is better than JO's 12-15, 37 point, 15 rebound, 4 blocks game, would you? Cause that would be laughable.

Slick Pinkham
05-09-2006, 10:31 AM
Foretaz, you wouldn't be trying to tell us that Brands 18-22, 40 point, 9 rebound, only two points in the last 8.5 minutes game against the Suns weak front court is better than JO's 12-15, 37 point, 15 rebound, 4 blocks game, would you? Cause that would be laughable.

It looks like that game for JO was an outlier and the other 5 games are more represenative of his level of play against Collins and Uncle Cliff, who are not much of an upgrade in talent over Phoenix's depleted front line anyway. I don't recall Krstic guarding JO much, so I'll leave him out.

ChicagoJ
05-09-2006, 10:35 AM
Well, JO struggled with foul trouble against a physical Collins and Uncle Cliff and a PG who was red-hot and not passing the ball.

I'd argue that Uncle Cliff and Collins at least put a body on JO and moved him out of the post. Not sure anybody from Phoenix can really move Brand out of the post.

Jermaniac
05-09-2006, 11:08 AM
I would trade JO for Kobe,Lebron,Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh. Thats it

blanket
05-09-2006, 11:10 AM
I'd consider a package of Jason Richardson, Ike Diogu, and another player (preferably Pietrus or Biedrins, but more likely Zarko) for J.O.

If the Warriors could move Murphy, they might consider this deal, too.

bulletproof
05-09-2006, 11:17 AM
Brand certainly did not make the playoffs on his own. The Clippers surrounded him with a bunch of nice, complimentary talent. I wonder what JO could do if the Pacers ever surrounded him with complimentary talent?

Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it? But I think we've seen glimpses of that. With the right players surrounding him, especially a banger and a legitimate outside threat, there are very few players in the league that I'd trade Jermaine for.

By the way, Maggette looked good last night. I knew he could take it to the hoop, but he has a nice outside touch as well. And kookiness aside, can you imagine what Ron would have done for the Clips.

Anthem
05-09-2006, 11:26 AM
By the way, Maggette looked good last night. I knew he could take it to the hoop, but he has a nice outside touch as well.
And he's not a free agent, and he plays shooting guard....

:soundoff:

bulletproof
05-09-2006, 11:46 AM
Yeah, but you know, even the announcers said, "When he's not injured..." when they started talking about him. That's a red flag. But hell, like Peja did us any good in the post season.

Kegboy
05-09-2006, 01:07 PM
No offense guys, but I've just lost respect for everyone who said Brand. Unless you meant Miles Brand. As a Purdue fan, I must admit he's pretty cool. ;)

I refuse to even acknowledge the Dirk mention.

Damn straight. :cool:

sweabs
05-09-2006, 01:33 PM
I would trade JO for Kobe,Lebron,Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh. Thats it

Hmmm...seems to me you were laughing at me for suggesting such a thing a year or two ago.

And now that he's finally hit his stride, it's easy to say you'd trade for him. But it's also fair to say that he's now pretty much impossible to trade for.

rel
05-09-2006, 03:07 PM
A combo of bobcats which include Gerald Wallace will do, and maybe a draft pick

FrenchConnection
05-09-2006, 03:11 PM
A combo of bobcats which include Gerald Wallace will do, and maybe a draft pick

So we can finish 26 - 56 next year. No thank you!

Romsey31
05-09-2006, 04:22 PM
There's no way I'd take Brand for JO. He's undersized and he can't lead a team with a full roster to the playoffs. In fact, Brand probably won't make the playoffs until he's somebody's sixthman, or at least the third-option on his team.

I'd take Duncan and KG, of course. I'd think about Dirk. You'd need to pair Dirk with a really rugged defender, which was Dallas' theoretical reason for overpaying Dampier. Didn't work out, but the theory was right.

Care to rethink this post?? What a difference a year makes. Now I'm sure the clips would be saying...THERE'S NO WAY WE TAKE J O for Brand.

D-BONE
05-09-2006, 04:56 PM
I'd consider a package of Jason Richardson, Ike Diogu, and another player (preferably Pietrus or Biedrins, but more likely Zarko) for J.O.

If the Warriors could move Murphy, they might consider this deal, too.

Yes. Serious consideration would be deserved.



A combo of bobcats which include Gerald Wallace will do, and maybe a draft pick

Following seems a little light, although I assume the pick would be high, which is attractive. I, too, salivate over GW's athletic prowess and he did have a breakout year and stayed healthy by his standards.

Problem is the ubiquitous argument about cutting into DG's PT. Mainly play the same position, right? If he could swing to SG at times, but he can't really shoot. Also would fit better if we had an open-court style.

Wonder what else we could coax out of the Cats for JO? Could they throw a PG and/or big on the deal?

ChicagoJ
05-09-2006, 05:44 PM
Care to rethink this post?? What a difference a year makes. Now I'm sure the clips would be saying...THERE'S NO WAY WE TAKE J O for Brand.

Presumably you saw my reply.

I'd rather see what JO could do with Cassell, Mobley, Maggette, Kaman, etc. Maybe they aren't flashy but they compliment Brand nicely. Our roster does not compliment JO at all.

GO!!!!!
05-09-2006, 06:26 PM
Dwight Howard...

CableKC
05-09-2006, 07:14 PM
For JONeal....I would only take KG ( if it meant not losing Granger unless we got back Hassell from any JONeal+Granger deal ) or Brand / DHoward / Bosh ( but its not like any of them is available ). I have no problem moving JONeal...as long as we get back a comprable Low-Post player that can play at his level....which pretty much means that JONeal probably won't be moved.

For Tinsley and SJax....I would pretty much take any player that can fit into our Starting / Backup SG and Backup SF position....assuming that Peja does not resign. I would even take back a "lesser" player at their positions as long as they are more dependable and not be prone to doing stupid things. This doesn't mean that I think we have to have a firesale on Tinsley and SJax....but I would downgrade the talent as long as we get back a player that does not kill us in the cap situation just to get rid of them...as their trade value is fairly low now.

Slick Pinkham
05-10-2006, 10:50 AM
I can see people not wanting Nowitsky, though I think Dirk might be a little more valuable in a fast-paced Non-Carlisle system when paired with a good defensive center.

Anyone not preferring KG over JO, though, has a severe case of Pacer homer-itis.