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View Full Version : What will be the style of play next season???



Peck
07-07-2005, 05:22 PM
I was just thinking about this. With everybody back but Reggie gone what type of offense will the Pacers use?

Will it be the grind it out half court offense that feeds to J.O. all of the time? Or will it be a striking attack at the rim with wing players who can penatrate?
Or will it be a outside/inside game where the offense will begin with Jamaal but end with Jax/Artest & then go to J.O. after that?
Or will it be something else?

Does anybody really think that the team, minus Reggie, will be willing to throw it to Jermaine every play?

Do we have enough shooters to work any of these scenarios? Jax can shoot & even Artest isn't horrid from outside but Jamaal & the rest are all not people I want shooting a lot of threes.

What happens if Harrison is ready to step up this year?

I guess I'm really confused as to what styl we will be able to play.

Diamond Dave
07-07-2005, 05:34 PM
A lot will depend on the attitudes and egos of our players. We might finally get an answer to the chicken/egg enigma that was Reggie and Jermaine. Did Reggie defer to JO all the time because he wanted too or because JO demanded a certain number of touches. I'd go with the former.

The Brawl could have more consequences than the obvious. JO had a whole year of being the unquestionable first option. With Ron back it will be a give and take, and Jack deserves a good portion as well. So it will be tough to get that to work out.

I don't think as of right now we have enough consistent outside shooters to successfully pull off a inside/outside game. I see us trying to be more of a slashing teams than ever before, with JO being used more and more for drive and dish jumpers. In order to do this, IMO, everyone on the team must drastically improve their ballhandling ability. Jack and Tins are the only two who have proven they have what it takes to get inside whenever they want it.

IMO we need one more dead-eye three pt shooter on this squad. They don't have to be a great overall player, but someone like Steve Kerr who could come in off the bench when the oppositions D begins to sag towards the basket when they realize that were just trying to drive cause no one is hitting from outside. We need a designated floor spreader.

So maybe that Sarunas guy is exactly who I'm looking for. :confused: But I'm still not willing to boot a quality/proven vet off this team for him.

owl
07-07-2005, 05:40 PM
I believe there will be more offense than last year. Reggie will be gone and
his deferring to others which I believe slowed the offense down. Also Jackson starts and Ron returns. Ron can score as evidenced by his 24 points per game
PB. Off the bench is Bender : ), Harrison, Granger and Freddie or JJ and
Saras : ), : ). The second unit will score points. So I envision higher scoring with some good defense mixed in. I believe you have to have more offensive
weapons than Detroit can guard to beat them along with solid defense.
Also with Reggie gone I can see a better rebounding team with Jackson starting and Ron back which leads to more fast break points and higher scoring. Ron was always good for 2-3 steals which lead to fast breaks.
I will make every effort to be at the opening home game.


owl

Suaveness
07-07-2005, 05:49 PM
I think it will be like last season before the brawl, with good offense ball movement and great defense. I hope at least.

PacerMan
07-07-2005, 06:13 PM
There's no way we can force feed the post as effectively without better shooting. I'd assume we'll run much more, needing to get our athletes out in space and easy baskets.

skyfire
07-07-2005, 07:01 PM
I'd like us to play an offense similar to the Spurs. JO setting more high on ball screens and not as many low postups.

Push the ball when it is available, but when settling into a half court set I like the way the Spurs probe the defense with penetration without overcommiting and getting caught up.

Ron and Jax on the wings can both shoot it and provide matchup problems in the post and DD/Foster are the perfect combo of ball hawks on the offensive glass.

sixthman
07-07-2005, 07:15 PM
I see us trying to run a lot more. But when the easy shot does not develop, we'll rightly be back into an inside-out game.

I don't think Harrison will be ready to play great minutes.

waxman
07-07-2005, 07:25 PM
Good Question....

From Birds comments this offseason it seems like he wants a more uptempo attack. Which sounds good to me. (No not crazy uptempo like the Suns).... Our defense should be good enough next season to get transition opportunities off turnovers and missed buckets. Who doesn't miss Foster trailing on the break, and crashing down the lane for a jam.... that used to be a staple of his game.

Plus JO can pin his man low on the post in these instances and not have to worry so much about the double teams.

In the half court, i'd like to see more of the pick and roll/pop plays...along with slashing to basket and give and goes, back doors, we don't have to settle for 3's, we have guys who can play the midrange game. A quick hitting offense seems to keep everyone on their toes and facilitates crisper execution.

We should have one of the better defenses in the league next season....I would like to see some trapping and more pressure defensively.....and we will have alot of offensive firepower.... I don't see a reason to minimize possessions to shorten the game.... ideally we would be able to play whatever style we want (not unlike the Spurs) and impose whatever style is working on whoever we are playing.

Of course when it gets to the conference finals the game will most likely return to its ugly familiar form.... Dammit.

Roaming Gnome
07-07-2005, 08:22 PM
What will we see next season.... S.S.D.D. I'm just afraid that we will go back to the SAWMAN (Stand Around Watching 'Mane Act Nasty) offense because it works well in the regular season, but can't get off it in the play-offs.

I drunk the Kool-Aid right before the play-offs about fitting J.O. into the system to only see him dominate the ball as usual. We just have a few different players, but I don't see the system changing.

I want to be so wrong!

Jermaniac
07-07-2005, 08:43 PM
I wish we would run a little more cause we do have the guy to do it.But the offense I see us running is the one that we used when we won 61 games.

Unclebuck
07-07-2005, 09:15 PM
I think it will be like last season before the brawl, with good offense ball movement and great defense. I hope at least.



That is my thought exactly.

If you remember last summer Rick said they were changing the offense somewhat (I can find the thread if you want me to),and I thought the offense was a bit different the first 7 games from the prior year. And then all hell broke loose and for the rest of the season it was offense any way possible.

A lot will depend on Tinsley. If he is the starter and is playing big minutes, you'll see a ton of pick and roll (that does not mean the pick a rolls won't lead to post ups for J.O. or Ron {I'm getting excited thinking about this}.

Overall the Pacers obviously won't turn into the Suns, they can't play that style afterall. There will likely be more islotations and postups than many of you like, but I think the offense will be the best it's been since the 2000 season. I think the blueprint for the Pacers is the Spurs. Of course the Pacers don't have the penetrating ability the Spurs have, but Artest gives the Pacers a dimension the Spurs or any team can't match.

When is training camp.

One fact everyone has to face. Rick Carlisle's offense philosphy is based upon spacing. Many of you don't like that, but however you want to take it, spacing will be the dominant offense philosophy. We could talk about that for a few hours, and maybe we will in about 10 days

3ptmiller
07-07-2005, 09:19 PM
Or will it be a outside/inside game where the offense will begin with Jamaal but end with Jax/Artest & then go to J.O. after that?

Yea i think that, but i think it will always end with Jermaine.. I think it will be 30% Outside game and 70% Inside

Ultimate Frisbee
07-08-2005, 02:02 AM
I think it all depends on what Rick wants to do... We certainly can run... we just never do... Foster is one of the fastest centers in the league and everyone else is young... Tinsley should be able push it a bit...

MAKE THEM RUN!

foretaz
07-08-2005, 03:58 AM
i think they definitely look to push it more this coming season....with a great defense, the talent we have, and the depth its only a natural....

and u need look no further than the beginning of last season, before all hell broke loose to find the clue....

the pacers were much more aggressive and things were flowing much faster....there was no reggie in the lineup and no aj either....which is telling....and while foster was also missing the pacers looked athletic and ready to run....a healthy bender(ha ha, i know), granger, and foster will only add to this ability....

the pacers were scoring 100 points nearly every game, and truth is they play the defense and have the talent to push it more.....and feel quite certain they will...

in the half court they have a plethora of options...and i have a feeling mathups will go a long way in determining which way they choose to go on any given nite....

Jermaniac
07-08-2005, 04:15 AM
Guys I finally found the Full Game on 11/19 when we beat the Pistons by 15, and watching that game gives us a nice look at how the offense will look. Reggie also didnt play in that game. I will try to upload the game for you if you want it.

Unclebuck
07-08-2005, 08:52 AM
Whether they "run" or not makes no difference to me.

The key thing for any offense is can you score late in close games and you don't do that by running. As you saw in the Suns - Spurs series, running teams can be slowed down. Suns had to rely on the halfcourt game.


So run all you want, but you have to execute in the halfcourt to win a championship.
I know Rick believes this also, so don't look for the pacers to be a running team except off steals, blocked shots, an an occasionally long rebound.

Mourning
07-08-2005, 09:27 AM
A lot will depend on the attitudes and egos of our players. We might finally get an answer to the chicken/egg enigma that was Reggie and Jermaine. Did Reggie defer to JO all the time because he wanted too or because JO demanded a certain number of touches. I'd go with the former.

The Brawl could have more consequences than the obvious. JO had a whole year of being the unquestionable first option. With Ron back it will be a give and take, and Jack deserves a good portion as well. So it will be tough to get that to work out.

I don't think as of right now we have enough consistent outside shooters to successfully pull off a inside/outside game. I see us trying to be more of a slashing teams than ever before, with JO being used more and more for drive and dish jumpers. In order to do this, IMO, everyone on the team must drastically improve their ballhandling ability. Jack and Tins are the only two who have proven they have what it takes to get inside whenever they want it.

IMO we need one more dead-eye three pt shooter on this squad. They don't have to be a great overall player, but someone like Steve Kerr who could come in off the bench when the oppositions D begins to sag towards the basket when they realize that were just trying to drive cause no one is hitting from outside. We need a designated floor spreader.

So maybe that Sarunas guy is exactly who I'm looking for. :confused: But I'm still not willing to boot a quality/proven vet off this team for him.

My sentiments echo the ones of DD here. We need an extra 3pt specialist! Doesn't have to be a great player, just someone who can hit it when we need it.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

3ptmiller
07-08-2005, 03:04 PM
Yea im with Mourning.. we need a new 3PT Specialist, Clutch shooter...
I just dont see how a Team can be better without one of the best Shooters, Clutch Players in NBA History.. i just cant see that, its a great loss on Reggie.

Sure we played sometimes better without him, but that one is easy... he is 40 years old! Think about todays Pacers lineup, with a young Reggie in it... thats like Championship 10 years in a row... we need perimeter shooting, trust me.

Kegboy
07-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Provided there's not a change in personnel before the season, we'll look pretty much like the beginning of last season. Light jog on offense. Nothing flashy, certainly nothing that comes close to SA's penetration. And absolutely no run-and-gun. Rick's too conservative for that.

I'm more concerned with our D. O'Neill taking the reigns means he's gonna put the kibosh on Tins and Jack, and to a lesser extent, Ron's, gambling tendencies. I forsee some friction over that.

SycamoreKen
07-08-2005, 06:01 PM
One fact everyone has to face. Rick Carlisle's offense philosphy is based upon spacing. Many of you don't like that, but however you want to take it, spacing will be the dominant offense philosophy. We could talk about that for a few hours, and maybe we will in about 10 days

Spacing and ball mvement are pivitol. The successful teams do this the best. The Spurs and Pistons both had their best games when they did this. Pheonix lost because they never moved the ball cosistantly.

8.9_seconds
07-09-2005, 12:02 AM
I'm putting it all in Croshere's hands......

McKeyFan
07-10-2005, 03:33 PM
Similar to UB's thoughts, I'm not as concerned with the regular season as with post season half court offense. In fact, I kind of like the idea of a Tinsley-led running game. Would be lots of fun. But I don't like it at all when playoff time comes.

Which is why I'm hoping for a Tinsley trade for a point guard who can stretch the offense and hit key shots from outside down the stretch. (Tinsley CAN hit clutch shots down the stretch, just not from the outside.)

SoupIsGood
07-10-2005, 03:45 PM
What makes you say he can't hit from the outside? His long-range shot improves every year, he hit some important threes for us during the season.

Gamble
07-10-2005, 06:56 PM
What makes you say he can't hit from the outside? His long-range shot improves every year, he hit some important threes for us during the season.
Our style of play will be alot of off the shoe dribbling by Sjax and Croshere.
With a good imitation of IU's watch the scorer directed by JO.

Seriously though i think Rick wants a more up tempo game but missed shots will create the reversal for us. I hate to say it but our Transitional D is
not our ticket for low scoring games which we win.
Hopefully Harrison develops more because i would love to see him provide
the future muscle for us. That guy is a beef cake with a good
jumper and solid D for a rookie. He sucks however on the boards but what
better teacher than Foster and Dale. Game high 22 points not bad for
a rookie big man.

McKeyFan
07-10-2005, 08:13 PM
What makes you say he can't hit from the outside? His long-range shot improves every year, he hit some important threes for us during the season.

Yes, and he missed quite a few as well.

I wouldn't argue with you that Tins has moments of brilliance, where his outside shot is working and everything else along with it. But, during crunch time, he usually doesn't have the mojo--remember that one game in the playoffs when he chucked up three bricks in a row?

I believe this is part the reason that we see AJ finish games sometimes. He hits clutch shots at the end.

Tinsley has improved his shot, I'll give you that. But I just don't ever see him becoming a pure shooter, IMO. If you'll notice, sometimes he'll hit several in a row, and then he'll throw up this megabrick, ugly thing. That, to me, is a sign of someone who is not a natural shooter, and it's why he isn't reliable from the outside when the game gets on the line.

I've said in many other threads that I hope Tinsley improves to be the outside shooter we need from the point to keep defenses honest. I just don't expect that to happen, for the reason described above. No doubt, if he ever did become a good shooter, he would be unstoppable.

Related question: can you think of anyone in the NBA who went from being a mediocre to really good shooter? It seems to me that this is a skill that you either have or don't have by the time you reach the NBA.

kellogg
07-10-2005, 11:14 PM
Related question: can you think of anyone in the NBA who went from being a mediocre to really good shooter? It seems to me that this is a skill that you either have or don't have by the time you reach the NBA.

Michael Jordan wasn't an outstanding outside shooter coming out of college, but as he aged he certainly developed a good outside shot. Kobe and LeBron have improved as well.

Fred Jones has steadily improved, as had Jamaal...will they be another Brent Barry, no...but OK. Pure shooters...never, but they can and have gotten better when they haven't been injured.

SoupIsGood
07-10-2005, 11:38 PM
Yes, and he missed quite a few as well.

I wouldn't argue with you that Tins has moments of brilliance, where his outside shot is working and everything else along with it. But, during crunch time, he usually doesn't have the mojo--remember that one game in the playoffs when he chucked up three bricks in a row?

I believe this is part the reason that we see AJ finish games sometimes. He hits clutch shots at the end.

Tinsley has improved his shot, I'll give you that. But I just don't ever see him becoming a pure shooter, IMO. If you'll notice, sometimes he'll hit several in a row, and then he'll throw up this megabrick, ugly thing. That, to me, is a sign of someone who is not a natural shooter, and it's why he isn't reliable from the outside when the game gets on the line.

I've said in many other threads that I hope Tinsley improves to be the outside shooter we need from the point to keep defenses honest. I just don't expect that to happen, for the reason described above. No doubt, if he ever did become a good shooter, he would be unstoppable.

Related question: can you think of anyone in the NBA who went from being a mediocre to really good shooter? It seems to me that this is a skill that you either have or don't have by the time you reach the NBA.

There is no doubt that Tinsley isn't a pure shooter, and her more than likely won't ever be. He is a streaky shooter, and while that isn't the greatest thing, I'll take a streaky shooter over a brick shooter any day.

Recently, I've been wondering why you want Tinsley traded so badly, so I went back and read your "Tinsley is like a drug" thread. (A great read, by the way. I didn't agree with it, but it was good.) It seemed that your primary complaint, other the two-man game stuff, was Tinsley's outside shooting. Other than that you seemed to agree that he is a pretty good player.

I think the Pacers can win with Tinsley, though, even if he never is the sharpshooter that we would like.

Look at the Spurs, as an example. They have won two out of the last three championships with Tony Parker as their PG. Parker, like Tinsley, is a great player who isn't a great jumpshooter. He certainly doesn't stretch the defense, but they still bult winning teams around him. I think we can do the same.

SoupIsGood
07-10-2005, 11:39 PM
I don't think Redd was a shooter coming out of college.

Gamble
07-11-2005, 01:03 AM
I love how everyone loves to use the word pure shooter. The problem with
Tinsley is that he is a pg not a shooting guard therefore he can't just do a Rick H
and shoot when he gets his open look. Most of the time he creates it and doesn't
have the best look or a play ran for him. The people that are most of the time
considered pure shooters are the one with the plays and the routes ran for them.
They no where they need to be and what they got to do to be there. Tinsley doesn't
have that luxury. I like his choice on shots though, especially from behind the arc.