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View Full Version : Why would Dale command more than the million-dollar exception?



Anthem
07-05-2005, 10:04 PM
For this year only, the amnesty clause is really going to mess with the free agent market. There will be several big men likely to be available for a mil a year: Theo Ratliff, Brian Grant, and a few others.

With guys like that out there, will Dale really command more than a mil per year?

cariocapacer
07-05-2005, 10:41 PM
I agree. Actually, he should get the vet minimum (not the exception) which is actually more than a million a year. Despite the consensus on this board, I don't expect him to get more from us or from anyone else. Too many veteran FA big men on the market. It will be a buyer's market.

SoupIsGood
07-05-2005, 10:43 PM
Yeah, Dale can beat it if he wants anything over the vet's min. He won't be able to play big minutes for us anyhow.

Lord Helmet
07-05-2005, 10:50 PM
I don't think we have to worry about Dale, he is home and I doubt he wants to leave. And, regarding money, he has enough already.

Evan_The_Dude
07-05-2005, 11:25 PM
And, regarding money, he has enough already.

I don't think he's ever made more than Sprewell...and Sprewell can't even feed his kids :)

ChicagoJ
07-05-2005, 11:27 PM
I don't think we have to worry about Dale, he is home and I doubt he wants to leave. And, regarding money, he has enough already.

Dale's never thought that way in his entire life.

NewType
07-05-2005, 11:31 PM
What would you guys believe as a reasonable contract? And how long?

Jermaniac
07-05-2005, 11:33 PM
1 year for 1 million I say

indytoad
07-06-2005, 12:03 AM
With this team's history, I have a feeling DD is going to be overpaid in most people's opinions around here.

IndyToad
Trying to hide something

Anthem
07-06-2005, 12:23 AM
Dale's never thought that way in his entire life.

No kidding.

Dale will ask for more than a million per, no question. I'm only asking why he should get it. I don't think he'll get more than that from anyone else.

Lord Helmet
07-06-2005, 12:26 AM
No kidding.

Dale will ask for more than a million per, no question. I'm only asking why he should get it. I don't think he'll get more than that from anyone else.
Yeah, I guess if you think about it, he will. He doesn't warrant much though. He won't be able to start on this team all year.

ChicagoJ
07-06-2005, 12:51 AM
The key isn't the $$$ - its that all these teams are giving deals that are waaayyy, waayyyy too long.

Dale was basically given the first fifty games off last season, came on strong for about 25 games with the Pacers, and faded fast. He doesn't really have a full season left, unless the Pacers are smart/ disciplined enough to keep him to 12-16 mpg in the regular season. If he gets a multi-year deal, no matter what the $$$ amount, I'll be pissed.

stew
07-06-2005, 12:55 AM
Dale's never thought that way in his entire life.


I think he did, if I remember correctly, there are reports that dale davis is not totally happy with the last contract he got with the pacers...

He would have gotten more if he signed after the season than signing an extension...

cheers

ChicagoJ
07-06-2005, 12:58 AM
He was given the maximum extension allowed under the CBA, and he still complained about it.

Can't really blame him for trying to milk it for all he can, but let's not forget that this is a business and Dale really cares about his paycheck.

Bball
07-06-2005, 01:16 AM
unless the Pacers are smart/ disciplined enough to keep him to 12-16 mpg in the regular season.

unless the Pacers are smart/ disciplined enough...????

Are you serious? Do you really think that anyone in the Pacer hierarchy doesn't see that about Dale (or any other player)? Do you really think the Pacers would overuse Dale and in effect use him up before the season was over?

C'mon... they're not going to put a player on the court that hurts more than helps and is too old and slow for the minutes and/or rotation spot he is given!

Oh wait... I just remembered Michael Curry... Hmmm.... nevermind what I said above!



















:devil:

-Bball

beast23
07-06-2005, 01:36 AM
Dale is worth a lot more than $1M per year to the team.

Granted, he's not going to be a 30mpg player. But he plays excellent team defense, is not demanding of offensive opportunities and understands screening as well as any frontcourt player in the league. He also has a bargaining chip in his pocket in that he started every single game after he joined the Pacers.

I don't think that Dale commands the full MLE, but he will certainly be paid more than half of it. And not for a single year, either. The Pacers will likely try to sign DD for 2 years, but I think that DD and his agent will push for 3 years... and probably get it.

So I bet it will be 3 years for $8-$10M.

foretaz
07-06-2005, 02:08 AM
i just touched on alot of this in the saras thread....

if dale signs it will almost certainly be for 4 years....even though he may only play for 1 or 2 years more....that is a way for the pacers to defer his salary legally....much like they did with reggie....

the questiion is will dale sign a contract that has a total worth of 7 million for the remainder of his playing days.....if he does agree, then they can sign him to the 1 million exception (currently about 1.6) for 4 years...and have the full MLE to use on anybody else....

as far as what goes on in the marketplace, there arent gonna be a lot of guys released...there are never alot of quality bigs available.....

theo ratliff is not going to be released....thats a figment of someones imagination....

now brian grant probably will be...and odds are he will go to portland unless jo could talk him into coming here....ratliff could probably be traded for, but the odds of him being released are slim and none....

the point is, there still will be a demand for quality veteran bigs....and someone will probably pay dale more than the 1 million exception.....boston would love to have a guy like dale....and i have a feeling there are a number of teams that would gladly pay dale at least half of the MLE....and half the MLE over 4 years is about 10.5 million....

so for dale to play here for the 1 million exception...it would appear he would be leaving about 3.5 million on the table....i love dale, but as has been pointed out before, this is business, and dale and his people have a history of not liking to leave money on the table....he probably already left some money on the table last year with his buyout....and when he sees his old buddy antonio making 12 million this next season....well...who knows....

dale signing for the 1 million exception would be absolutely fabulous for the pacers....odds say he doesnt do that....so lets see what happens....if he were going to do so, it would be announced very quickly, more than likely....meaning right around the july 22 date....if its not announced, then it means he probably gets a part of the MLE....in which case it will have a domino effect on the rest of the pacers offseason moves...

Bball
07-06-2005, 02:13 AM
Dale is worth a lot more than $1M per year to the team.

Granted, he's not going to be a 30mpg player. But he plays excellent team defense, is not demanding of offensive opportunities and understands screening as well as any frontcourt player in the league. He also has a bargaining chip in his pocket in that he started every single game after he joined the Pacers.

I don't think that Dale commands the full MLE, but he will certainly be paid more than half of it. And not for a single year, either. The Pacers will likely try to sign DD for 2 years, but I think that DD and his agent will push for 3 years... and probably get it.

So I bet it will be 3 years for $8-$10M.

I was just joking with Jay, obviously, and agree Dale is of value to the team. I have a feeling Dale will get more than some would deem wise... and foretaz might be onto something with the extended length contract which would defer the cost a bit and stay within the letter of the NBA law (altho not the spirit of it IMHO).

-Bball

Jermaniac
07-06-2005, 02:44 AM
Good God, 10 million dollars for a player who will not be able to play more then 15 mpg, and will only be able to probably play one more year in the NBA. **** that I rather go out and get Brain Grant when he gets cut at least he will be cheaper. Dale Davis is not worth no damn 3 million dollars per year

foretaz
07-06-2005, 03:11 AM
Good God, 10 million dollars for a player who will not be able to play more then 15 mpg, and will only be able to probably play one more year in the NBA. **** that I rather go out and get Brain Grant when he gets cut at least he will be cheaper. Dale Davis is not worth no damn 3 million dollars per year


im not sure how u equate this to dollars....but dales veteran presence in the locker room and the fact that he is considered to be one of the best teammates in the league is certainly valuable....the fact that he brings that no nonsense enforcer mentality to work with him everyday is very important to this team that is still relatively young....the respect dale has from his teammates is something that is very key where team chemistry is concerned....

given this team and its makeup.....u want dale in ur lockerroom....i think he can be a great influence on many of the guys.....and im very interested in the effect he can have on ron and granger in particular.....

like ive said....if he would sign for the million exception....then i think u dont squawk too hard about it if he wants it for four years....even if hes only with the team for maybe 2.....these next two years and the effect he has could be very long lasting....

ChicagoJ
07-06-2005, 09:36 AM
Dale can have a job with the Pacers after he retires, if he really loves the organization that much.

I just can't see them giving guy who was always squaking about money a "retirement gift."

Do his 'intangibles' have value? Yes? But he doesn't have the tangibles to last more than a season or two with limited minutes. I thought for a while last season that his play would bring multiple bidders to the table this summer, but after watching him fade quickly after just 25 games or so I realized that the only team he's even worth the vet's minimum to is the Pacers.

able
07-06-2005, 09:45 AM
Dale can have a job with the Pacers after he retires, if he really loves the organization that much.

I just can't see them giving guy who was always squaking about money a "retirement gift."

Do his 'intangibles' have value? Yes? But he doesn't have the tangibles to last more than a season or two with limited minutes. I thought for a while last season that his play would bring multiple bidders to the table this summer, but after watching him fade quickly after just 25 games or so I realized that the only team he's even worth the vet's minimum to is the Pacers.
Add to that that maybe Brian Grant or uncle cliffy become available for very little and it all becomes clear as to why the P's are not as confident in signing DD as they are in JJ.

indygeezer
07-06-2005, 09:58 AM
Copied this from this AM's RealGM page

Sixers Begin Mulling Potential Additions
6th July, 2005 - 5:43 am
Philadelphia Daily News - While re-signing their own free agents Samuel Dalembert, Kyle Korver and Willie Green remains the team's priority, the Phil Jasner of the Philadelphia Daily News writes that the team is hoping for some new additions as well.

GM Billy King has already sent out feelers to the likes of Stromile Swift and Donyell Marshall, who seemingly appear to be on every team's list, the target list is quite large.

A partial list of their targets includes: Boston's Antoine Walker, Miami's Christian Laettner, Seattle's Vitaly Potapenko, and Indiana's Dale Davis, all unrestricted, plus Washington's Kwame Brown, who is restricted.


and it goes on from there. But it shows that others ARE thinking of DD as an acquisition.

Anthem
07-06-2005, 11:32 AM
and it goes on from there. But it shows that others ARE thinking of DD as an acquisition.

Fair enough. But they're not going to offer more than a mil per year.

cariocapacer
07-06-2005, 12:46 PM
With this team's history, I have a feeling DD is going to be overpaid in most people's opinions around here.

Normally i would agree with this but the Pacers are going to have pay $2 for every dollar they pay Dale next year since they will be in luxury tax territory.

beast23
07-06-2005, 02:05 PM
Normally i would agree with this but the Pacers are going to have pay $2 for every dollar they pay Dale next year since they will be in luxury tax territory.

… and therein lies our problem.


<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><o:p></o:p></P> </P><P style=Recently, we’ve all read Bird’s quote that the owners do not want to pay a luxury tax.
<o:p></o:p>

Yet, we have a payroll that is already in luxury tax territory with only 13 players (including Reggie’s $6.1M) under contract. DD, JJ and Edwards are free agents. And that does not address signing Granger, nor does it allow for the signing of another free agent that can help.
<o:p></o:p>

There’s also a numbers game that must be played. We have 12 active players on the roster now. Signing all our free agents, Granger and maybe one more free agent on the open market will bring the number to 17. Hmmm. Interesting.
<o:p></o:p>

So, IMO, Edwards is gone immediately.
<o:p></o:p>

The Pacers payroll is at 74,060,285 as we sit today. Pay DD 2M (or whatever the minimum is for a veteran of his experience), JJ 2M, Granger 1.6M and Saras $5M and we are at 84,660,285 with 16 players under contract.
<o:p></o:p>

Dump Croshere and his contract and we are still at 75,750,285.
<o:p></o:p>

If Bird is to “tweak” the roster for a run at the title, then there is going to be a salary dump of some sort, beyond Croshere, in order to avoid paying a luxury tax… unless the Pacers are banking on there being no luxury tax for the coming year.
<o:p></o:p>

To do that, it would take a move similar to what we did with Ron Mercer a couple of years ago. The likely candidates are Bender and Pollard. But I doubt there is a team under the cap that will take either one outright. So, it’s probably going to take throwing in another player, like either AJ or Freddie, and maybe our first round draft choice for next season to get the job done.
<o:p></o:p>

That sounds absolutely crazy to me, but if Bird is going to re-sign our free agents, even at a reasonable price, and acquire the shooter that they seem to be targeting, then something else has to give.
<o:p></o:p>

The only other solution is that they are betting on no luxury tax being due for the coming season.

able
07-06-2005, 02:15 PM
Just as an afterthought, seeing JB only played 7 games in the past year........

would that not be A. a salary dump? B. an excemption to sign a replacement?

as I said, just a thought.....

Anthem
07-06-2005, 02:20 PM
Just as an afterthought, seeing JB only played 7 games in the past year........

would that not be A. a salary dump? B. an excemption to sign a replacement?

as I said, just a thought.....

That's an interesting thought. If we traded JB to Atlanta, we'd have an exception that we could use to sign Sauron.

Peck
07-06-2005, 02:26 PM
It was Billy Knight afterall who was so high on Bender coming out of h.s. maybe he would be willing to trade for him.

beast23
07-06-2005, 02:32 PM
I hadn't really thought about the trade exemption.

All I really thought about was even after dumping Croshere, after we sign the free agents we still are around the $74-75M area. Somehow we have to do the tweaking and get ourselves in the vacinity of $65M, assuming the luxury tax threshhold will be about the same that it has been.

able
07-06-2005, 03:09 PM
OK Let me add another thought to that one :)

So we have Atl, and our excemption. that was above.

Now we add the "permanent injury" waiver/excemption to that drama, after all he only played 7 games so that is below the 10 for the season treshold.

In the meantime we all agree that we wont see Cro back in a Pacers shirt and though I feel somewhat sorry, I feel he was paid handsomely for the service (and will be)