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blanket
07-05-2005, 02:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2100641&num=2

Marc Stein:

I'm told Maccabi Tel-Aviv point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, whose teams have won the past three Euroleague championships, wants a three-year deal to finally leap to the NBA for $5 million annually. The 29-year-old, in other words, wants the full mid-level exception. The Cavs, though, are hoping Jasikevicius would accept less to play alongside countryman and close pal Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Cleveland's A-scenario remains signing Redd, re-signing Ilgauskas and then adding a third free agent from the Jasikevicius-Antonio Daniels tier. Don't forget that new Cavs general manager Danny Ferry was working in San Antonio when the Spurs tried in vain to sign Jasikevicius two summers ago.

Dr Huxtable
07-05-2005, 02:04 PM
Why doesn't this article mention the Pacers?

Diamond Dave
07-05-2005, 02:09 PM
Is this guy really worth this, considering we have a more than servicable backup in AJ?

sixthman
07-05-2005, 02:09 PM
Cause we are now out of his price range?

Lord Helmet
07-05-2005, 02:28 PM
Is this guy really worth this, considering we have a more than servicable backup in AJ?
I don't think he is. But, tell that to all the AJ haters. :rolleyes:

foretaz
07-05-2005, 02:30 PM
well lets see...his price has supposedly now gone from 10 million for 3 years to 15 million for 3 years....hmmmm....

thats not good for the pacers...at all....

for someone whos never played an nba game yet, it appears theyve almost managed to create such a buzz about him that there is gonna be a significant bidding war....

guess we do nothing, but sit back and enjoy the show....and prepare ourselves for the possibility that it just might not be in the cards for him to become a pacer......no matter how much we want him....

Isaac
07-05-2005, 02:35 PM
Damn it.

foretaz
07-05-2005, 02:39 PM
you know...at the risk of sounding a bit too optimistic....there is another possible explanation....

we dont know who told stein this....

it very well couldve been a team that saras has zero interest in playing for , so when this team made an inquiry they were told he wanted the whole MLE....

if the kings or even dallas came calling....i could see his agent telling them that he wanted the full MLE, just to end the discussions...

Jermaniac
07-05-2005, 02:42 PM
**** him, 5 million a year for a guy who never played a minute in the NBA. I rather have AJ and sign maybe Keith McLeod from the Jazz or Jay Williams for like a mil a year.

RWB
07-05-2005, 03:03 PM
Time to just wait and see. Sounds as usual like an agent floating some trial ballons. By the way this guy has the same rep. as Scot Pollard.

Since86
07-05-2005, 03:06 PM
Time to just wait and see. Sounds as usual like an agent floating some trial ballons. By the way this guy has the same rep. as Scot Pollard.


Rep?

Reputation or representative?

Diamond Dave
07-05-2005, 03:10 PM
Rep?

Reputation or representative?

I think he means representative. That or Sarunas has a quirky sense of humor.

foretaz
07-05-2005, 03:13 PM
well maybe since they have the same agent, and pollard gets paid about 6 million to suck, then he thinks sarunas is certainly worthy of 5....

Diamond Dave
07-05-2005, 03:14 PM
well maybe since they have the same agent, and pollard gets paid about 6 million to suck, then he thinks sarunas is certainly worthy of 5....

How do you say, "Yeah, but I get paid alot to suck" in Lithuanian. :laugh:

RWB
07-05-2005, 03:15 PM
Rep?

Reputation or representative?

That's right he's a bad mother.....r, shut your mouth, shaft.

Yes DDave is correct I'm talking about the Octagon Sports group (think of the movie Jerry Maguire).

Since86
07-05-2005, 03:16 PM
I think he means representative. That or Sarunas has a quirky sense of humor.


I figured that, but didnt want to assume. (When you assume you only make an *** out of U and ME).

Plus I wasn't for sure if Pollard had some other reputation I didn't know about. :confused:

Unclebuck
07-05-2005, 03:30 PM
We have to pay it for this guy, just don't sign DD and JJ and we can do it.

Sorry, I'm in a really sarcastic mood today

Kstat
07-05-2005, 03:31 PM
This guy isn't some hot-shot kid out of europe. He's definately earned that kind of a contract with his performance in Europe and the Olympics. He's proven plenty against quality competition.

Now, is he worth that kind of money? TIme will tell. But he's in the prime of his career, so he's certainly earned the right to ask for it.

foretaz
07-05-2005, 03:41 PM
We have to pay it for this guy, just don't sign DD and JJ and we can do it.

Sorry, I'm in a really sarcastic mood today

actually jj wouldnt really be an issue...and i dont see dale signing for the vet min. but if he did, then he wouldnt be an issue either....should get interesting....i still have a feeling he ends up with us-though im not really sure why....in the end i think its between us and cleveland, with an outside chance to another team if Z signs somewhere else....that team being Z's new team...

indygeezer
07-05-2005, 04:23 PM
Marc Stein is the one reporting this story, how "reliable" is he with his stories?

Kstat
07-05-2005, 04:32 PM
The only thing that offended me was that the only reason you gave was that he was from a different background. A professional human being can get along with any co-worker, no matter how different. Basketball is basketball. Everybody plays the same game.

I'm not going to raise hell over it, but if someone didn't point out that it was a prejudice comment, what good would come of it? All I'm saying is, if you think one player won't mix with his co-workers, please find a better reason than his upbringing.

No, I don't think you intentionally tried to offend anyone. I did go a little off the edge, and I'll try to be more subtle about it next time.

Jon Theodore
07-05-2005, 04:33 PM
If we can get this guy for MLE we have to do it. If not thats too much for us. It's not like with AJ/Tins we're hurting for a PG. Well until Tins gets hurt, lets all cross our fingers.

From what I hear this guy likes to run. Doesn't sound like a good fit for the Pacers off the bat. I have limited knowledge of this guy. Ya'll make him sound like our savior though.

I doubt we will get him.

indygeezer
07-05-2005, 04:38 PM
I doubt we will get him.



AHA!! We've found our common ground.

BigMac
07-05-2005, 06:33 PM
I say give the MLE to him-if you say don't, watch the video again posted in a previoius post.

Give Dale a 6-year contract at the Veterans minimum (he won't play 6 years and he can keep getting paid for his loyalty like Reggie is having done) and offer JJ the minimum-if he goes it is no big deal as he won't play much next year anyway, renounce/waive Croshere under the amnesty program, and win the whole damn thing next year.

It's not my money so who cares. But, of course, you still have to get Dale to agree to that.

Isaac
07-05-2005, 06:50 PM
I agree with you BigMac. I think JJ will walk at the minimum, but even though he's a great guy, I'd rather have Granger at the back up 3. I'd also rather have Sarunas then him.

beast23
07-05-2005, 06:55 PM
I say give the MLE to him-if you say don't, watch the video again posted in a previoius post.

Give Dale a 6-year contract at the Veterans minimum (he won't play 6 years and he can keep getting paid for his loyalty like Reggie is having done) and offer JJ the minimum-if he goes it is no big deal as he won't play much next year anyway, renounce/waive Croshere under the amnesty program, and win the whole damn thing next year.

It's not my money so who cares. But, of course, you still have to get Dale to agree to that.You're saying that losing JJ is no big deal?

JJ is only the best perimeter shooter we have. I think JJ will be signed for $2.5M or so, unless some knucklehead team like Miami makes us pay more.

I also think offering DD the Vet's minimum, whether we are extending the term or not is insulting. It would be a sure-fire way of seeing him in an opposing uniform. Dale will probably play 2-3 years. An it will probably take around $4M per year to sign him.

Pingu
07-05-2005, 07:19 PM
Well if he wants the big bucks instead of the battle for the EC crown, it's up to him.

I'm really disappointed.

Kstat
07-05-2005, 07:33 PM
Well if he wants the big bucks instead of the battle for the EC crown, it's up to him.

I'm really disappointed.

Considering that we don't know his financial situation, and that he comes from a poor country, is it really THAT surprising?

His first NBA contract will probably be the largest contract he'll get in his lifetime. Cant blame him for looking to make as much as he can.

McKeyFan
07-05-2005, 08:04 PM
Has anybody mentioned the possibility of the Pacers trying to get Z as well as Sarunas? Is this at all possible? Does anybody want to see Z here?

Kstat
07-05-2005, 08:06 PM
I don't think that's possible at all. You'll already have like 10 centers on your roster. Plus, big Z will get more than the MLE. 7'3" centers that can score don't grow on trees.

skyfire
07-05-2005, 08:12 PM
We have JJ's bird rights, we can offer him upto the MLE regardless of our cap situation. I cant see any team offering him more than MLE with the depth of swingmen free agents this season, so even if it means waiving Cro to avoid luxury tax I say we pay JJ whatever it takes.

Saras asking for the MLE means that unless we can get DD to take the Vets min, or we are going to lose one of them.
As someone suggested give DD a 6 yr vet min contract, if that’s what it takes, and pay out the remainder when he retires, ala reggie.

I think with the addition of Granger, shoring up our forward spots abit, the only remaining hole in this current lineup is PG depth. Give Saras the MLE Larry!

Kegboy
07-05-2005, 08:23 PM
Now, foretaz professes to be the expert, but as I understand it, JJ's restricted, which means we can match any offer. Thanks to the new CBA and the Arenas/Boozer provision no other team can offer more than the MLE in the first year of a contract, which allows us to match it.

McKeyFan
07-05-2005, 08:26 PM
I don't think that's possible at all. You'll already have like 10 centers on your roster. Plus, big Z will get more than the MLE. 7'3" centers that can score don't grow on trees.

Well, I was thinking a trade would have to be involved. Would the Cavs want Foster and/or Harrison? And maybe Snow could be included in the deal. I'm looking for any kind of way to move Tinsley ;)

Kstat
07-05-2005, 08:29 PM
I'm thinking the Cavs want Z, since LeBron has made it clear that he wants them to re-sign him, and it also helps in their quest for Sarunas.

sweabs
07-05-2005, 08:33 PM
I'm thinking the Cavs want Z, since LeBron has made it clear that he wants them to re-sign him, and it also helps in their quest for Sarunas.

I've heard rumours that Lebron has shown more interest in the Cavs signing Eddy Curry as their centre, rather than Big Z (as of late...).

:whoknows:

Bball
07-05-2005, 11:58 PM
**** him, 5 million a year for a guy who never played a minute in the NBA. I rather have AJ and sign maybe Keith McLeod from the Jazz or Jay Williams for like a mil a year.

Aren't we paying Bender 6 million per year.... and he's not played in the NBA either! ;) :(

-Bball

BigMac
07-06-2005, 12:05 AM
You're saying that losing JJ is no big deal?




Yep. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying he's the 10th, 11th, or 12th man on this team. He's not going to play much and I hope those who are able to take a step back will realize that while he is an excellent outside shooter and I'd say very good rebounder as well-especially for his frame-his will be 4th string as best behind Ron Artest, Danny Granger, and Stephen Jackson (barring any unforeseen trades). I figure he'll go to Miami for part of the MLE, ooops, nope, I doubt they want to spend that much on an unproven commodity. I like JJ, too. But there are limitations to the salary cap and with all of the players who are going to command the MLE because of the amnesty waiver exception. It will be a buyer's market and JJ's new contract won't be at a high value.

Shade
07-06-2005, 12:41 AM
Am I the only one who would just rather go after Jay Williams anyway?

Jon Theodore
07-06-2005, 12:52 AM
We need to keep JJ if you ask me. I see a lot of potential in that kid. If he could play SG that would be key. I'd rather move Fred.

GO!!!!!
07-06-2005, 12:54 AM
I'm with you

he was a no 2 draft pick 3 years ago, if he can pass a fitness test and has his confidence up, I want to try him a HELL YEAH !!!

if he has his fitness and some speed he'll be a good fit... you don't lose a basketball brain in a bike accident, sure it gets rusty but he'll come right..

Averaged close to 10 ppg , 5apg, 2.6rpg, 1 spg in 24 min as a rook

and i'm all for keeping JJ 2, he's 6'8 and can shoot the ball like no one else he's what Bender should have been minus 2 inches

3pt % .396 66/166 Last year in the 75 games he played ( 18 MPG)
He'll be a force in a few years...

beast23
07-06-2005, 01:24 AM
But there are limitations to the salary cap and with all of the players who are going to command the MLE because of the amnesty waiver exception. It will be a buyer's market and JJ's new contract won't be at a high value.That's probably the one thing you've said that I agree with.

I totally agree that the amnesty waiver and the number of free agents available will probably hold down what JJ might get from another team. I originally thought he might command $2.5M - $3M. Although I think it will take quite a bit more than the minimum, I don't think anyone in their right mind would advocate giving him a contract equivalent to MLE dollars.

I believe that the Pacers will complete a trade before the season begins, and I think it will probably affect one or more of the rotational players. I also believe that Croshere will be a casualty of the amnesty waiver by the October deadline.

Everything is pointing to the Pacers running more next season. That means that what would be a normal rotation of 8-9 players will now become 9-10 players. I fully expect JJ to be part of that rotation.

Exactly where JJ is in the rotation depends on several factors.

Significant progress made by Harrison would reduce available minutes for Granger in the frontcourt, perhaps leading to more consumption of SF minutes by Granger.
Early in the season, whether Granger is ready to assume many minutes at any position.
The possible return of Bender, and where he might fit into Rick's plans, if at all.
Which players will/will not be on the roster after any trades.
Until I hear that the Pacers have acquired another perimeter shooter through trade or free agency, I would think it unwise not to retain the shooters that we have, namely JJ.

I believe the only reason that the Pacers would not re-sign JJ would be that another team went a little wild in what they were offering him. And at this point, I don't see that happening with the other names that are available. But, I guess we'll now by August 1st or so.

foretaz
07-06-2005, 01:54 AM
oh the intertwinings of all these things....its all of this sort of stuff that makes being in management so provocative....so many decisions to be made....so many factors involved...

ok..first off...i think its pretty clear by now....dale, saras, and the MLE have no bearing on the actual contract that is signed by JJ....the pacers have early bird rights on jj meaning they can match anything up to the league average(same as the MLE amount) which will be around the 5 million figure....JJ situation is simple....will the pacers pay him what he might be worth to someone else?...what will someone pay him?...what teams might be interested in him...though i dont think there will be many players released using the amnesty provision, there appears to be a couple that will be that a couple of teams might be interested in over JJ....which means his situation could draw out while teams wait to see who is released....bottom line is the pacers will have to decide what jj is worth salary wise.....and if he exceeds that on the open market, then they probably let him walk...

one thing that does play into jjs value to the pacers is the pacers ability to sign saras...or any other outside shooter for that matter....jj is currently the best outside shooter on the team....if the pacers sign saras , jj might be a little more expendable as they would have picked up another great outside shooter....

as far as dd and saras are concerned, dale is really the whole key to this situation....because both will have to be signed using the MLE...someone mentioned dale signing for the league minimum for six years.....no can do....if a player signs for the league minimum for his years served(not the 1million exception, which is about 1.6 right now) the maximum length contract he can sign is for 2 years....so that wont work...they though of that potential loophole already....

now another problem arises....even if dale signed for the 1 mill exception he couldnt really do so for 6 years...dale is over 36....which means any contract he signs over 4 years will be viewed as deferred compensation and therefore years 5 and or 6 are factored into the first 4 years...so really the max contract dale could sign using this exception would be 4 years and about 7 million....

and this is really the key...will dd sign for 4 years and 7 million....when the pacers signed dale midseason, they already had saras in their sights.....now while im sure they didnt think he would probably take all of the MLE i cant imagine they thought he would play for the 1 mill exception either...i also believe that the pacers probably made some sort of gentlemans agreement with dale at the time he signed....and thats the real key....what was it...if dale would happen to sign(which i have my doubts) for the 7 million, then it would leave the full MLE to be used...and that could be used on saras or anyone else if they deemed it appropriate.....

now to take it a step further....if dd would sign for the 1mill exception....and jj resigned at about 3 mill per....and saras was signed for the MLE....the pacers could still sign one of the players that is released from the amnesty clause....if that player would agree to sign for the vet min for two years....so say brian grant is released by the lakers....he could be signed as well....or actually any veteran player who wanted to play for the vet min like cliff robinson....not unlike what horry did this past year with san antonio....

so it all hinges on dale....now, of course, if things went south in the negotiations with dale....or the pacers get cold feet and change their minds on what they previously offered dale....well then they might have a few more decisions to make....or even if they feel that getting saras is more important than resigning dale and decide to let dale walk....it should be interesting, no matter what happens....

foretaz
07-06-2005, 02:28 AM
heres some simple numbers....with regard to saras and dale and the MLE...

IF, Dale wont sign for the 1 million exception....which would be 4 years and 7 million....

saras(before this recent report) supposedly wanted 10 million for 3 years...

that would mean the pacers could offer the following using the full MLE between the two players..

saras 3 years 10 million....1st year salary just about 3 million

dale 4 years and a little over 9 million...1st year salary about 2 million....(realizing dale will not play 4 years but his compensation will be spread out over 4 years...similar to reggie)

now if either player wants more than that....then we have a problem....if both players would take those contracts....then we could sign the both of them july 22...and still have the 1 million exception....

Pingu
07-06-2005, 07:40 AM
Considering that we don't know his financial situation, and that he comes from a poor country, is it really THAT surprising?

His first NBA contract will probably be the largest contract he'll get in his lifetime. Cant blame him for looking to make as much as he can.


Come on, last year he earned 2 millions $ playing with the Maccabi, he was the player with the biggest contract in Europe.

Compared to other Euro ballers the guy is rich.
Compared to you and me, the guy is awfully rich.
I think I can blame him if he wants 5 M/year instead of 3.

able
07-06-2005, 08:12 AM
Saras can get 3 in EU easily, as simple as that, salaries are improving there, as is attendance.

I "tend" to look at the "little" things that "slip" out, and saying that I noticed that when they are talking about re-signing JJ they are saying that it is (pretty sure) he will be re-signed, he's important and such, but while talking about DD htey are "hopefull" and they'll "try"

I also think that the "progress" we can not see that perhaps Hulk is making might be a very important factor in what is offered to DD, if he's (hulk) coming along very well then they might take the "risk" on either signing DD for the vet-min or waiting to see if something else "pops-up".

I am pretty sure no "promsies" were made, but also that the MLE for Saras was "expected" and that the "hope" concerning DD is found in the 1.6 exception, perhpas with some "added" years.

Also despite loving DD, vet-presence in the locker is not a priority, if anything I think that Rggie being there created more difficulties for JO to be a "leader" then anything else, DD coming in "taking" that role will not work that way.
We will have a "team-leader" in JO and a "floor-leader" in Tins, nothing else.

Also indeed a very important role will play who gets waived over the amnesty clause left right and center.
If Grant gets waived I for one am not so 100% sure he will want to go back to Portland, he might well be persuaded to join his best friend on a team going for gold, vet min, and he is every way the warrior DD is.
Also if Cliffy gets waived another option is available, don't forget we still have Jeff nad Hulk at that position, with what the Hulk learned in his first year, he might well be of more then great value to us allowing us to not "overpay" DD.

What I smell from what I read I would say that JJ baring any ridiculous bids from outside will be retained, Saras if he does not go over the MLE will be signed and DD is in a llist of "would you like to end your career on a contending team" list.

The players in the paint they are looking at have all earned their stripes, but also lots of money over the years, for them it is now time to choose, money or the Pacers.
I am sure "something" will happen, but we might not know what untill September.

As far as people calling JO/Ron/Jax the core, sorry, but I am still pretty sure that the "real" core of this team is JO/Ron/Tins. and that Jax is the starter least sure of his position of all.


With JJ, Ron and Granger capable of sliding over to the sg spot we have options and a "pure" shooter is not on the team if JJ does not sign.
Jax will not get a chance to score 20+ at the avg he shot last year, Rick will want far higher percentage shots then that, certainly with enough "scoreres" on the team and we haven't even talked about Fred and what might happen if guys like Fred, JJ and Granger are working with Chuck.

BigMac
07-06-2005, 08:55 AM
Saras can get 3 in EU easily, as simple as that, salaries are improving there, as is attendance.

I "tend" to look at the "little" things that "slip" out, and saying that I noticed that when they are talking about re-signing JJ they are saying that it is (pretty sure) he will be re-signed, he's important and such, but while talking about DD htey are "hopefull" and they'll "try"

I also think that the "progress" we can not see that perhaps Hulk is making might be a very important factor in what is offered to DD, if he's (hulk) coming along very well then they might take the "risk" on either signing DD for the vet-min or waiting to see if something else "pops-up".

I am pretty sure no "promsies" were made, but also that the MLE for Saras was "expected" and that the "hope" concerning DD is found in the 1.6 exception, perhpas with some "added" years.

Also despite loving DD, vet-presence in the locker is not a priority, if anything I think that Rggie being there created more difficulties for JO to be a "leader" then anything else, DD coming in "taking" that role will not work that way.
We will have a "team-leader" in JO and a "floor-leader" in Tins, nothing else.

Also indeed a very important role will play who gets waived over the amnesty clause left right and center.
If Grant gets waived I for one am not so 100% sure he will want to go back to Portland, he might well be persuaded to join his best friend on a team going for gold, vet min, and he is every way the warrior DD is.
Also if Cliffy gets waived another option is available, don't forget we still have Jeff nad Hulk at that position, with what the Hulk learned in his first year, he might well be of more then great value to us allowing us to not "overpay" DD.

What I smell from what I read I would say that JJ baring any ridiculous bids from outside will be retained, Saras if he does not go over the MLE will be signed and DD is in a llist of "would you like to end your career on a contending team" list.

The players in the paint they are looking at have all earned their stripes, but also lots of money over the years, for them it is now time to choose, money or the Pacers.
I am sure "something" will happen, but we might not know what untill September.

As far as people calling JO/Ron/Jax the core, sorry, but I am still pretty sure that the "real" core of this team is JO/Ron/Tins. and that Jax is the starter least sure of his position of all.


With JJ, Ron and Granger capable of sliding over to the sg spot we have options and a "pure" shooter is not on the team if JJ does not sign.
Jax will not get a chance to score 20+ at the avg he shot last year, Rick will want far higher percentage shots then that, certainly with enough "scoreres" on the team and we haven't even talked about Fred and what might happen if guys like Fred, JJ and Granger are working with Chuck.


I agree with everything you said. Nice post.

Doug in CO
07-06-2005, 09:11 AM
Aren't we paying Bender 6 million per year.... and he's not played in the NBA either! ;) :(

-Bball

Congratulations to Bball for beating everyone to the punch with the Bender slam on this post. I am a bit jealous I did not think of it before he did.

MagicRat
07-06-2005, 09:13 AM
Congratulations to Bball for beating everyone to the punch with the Bender slam on this post. I am a bit jealous I did not think of it before he did.

Bball's mind is always working to create new ways to bash Bender......You need to be more dedicated if you want to beat him........;)

Diesel
07-06-2005, 11:09 AM
Am I the only one who would just rather go after Jay Williams anyway?


I don't know where Jay Williams is at this point right now. I know he talked about playing this coming season but I haven't heard if he's ready yet. And even if he is healthy he hasn't played in a couple of years and Im sure there is doubt how good he will be. I would take a chance on him but not for a lot of money. Since it looks like we have to spend the whole MLE on Saras I'll say it again why don't we just make a push for Earl Watson or Antonio Daniels. Both are very good defenders especially Watson and if Tinsley goes down for a while we'll have somebody who we can get by with as a starter.

sixthman
07-06-2005, 11:25 AM
I am very skeptical about the Pacers forking over five million for any free agent. The team is hamstrung financially, just as they have been almost every year. If there are any new acquisitions they will come cheaply or via the sign and trade route.

Hope I'm wrong, but I am not getting my hopes up.

After it's all said and done, Michael Redd will be a Buck: They can pay him the most money. And the Cavs will re-sign Ilgauskas and unite him with his best man Sarunas. Makes too much cents - I mean dollars and sense.

blanket
07-06-2005, 12:33 PM
I am very skeptical about the Pacers forking over five million for any free agent. The team is hamstrung financially, just as they have been almost every year. If there are any new acquisitions they will come cheaply or via the sign and trade route.

Hope I'm wrong, but I am not getting my hopes up.

After it's all said and done, Michael Redd will be a Buck: They can pay him the most money. And the Cavs will re-sign Ilgauskas and unite him with his best man Sarunas. Makes too much cents - I mean dollars and sense.

I tend to agree with you on all points. The only exception I could see is if they really think a FA is worth most or all of the MLE and will be a difference maker for the team, then they might trade a player (Pollard, Johnson, Bender) to a team under the cap without taking any salary back so they can absorb the new player's contract more easily.

But I think your scenario is still most likely.