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Kid Minneapolis
05-10-2004, 02:33 PM
Tracy McGrady to the Pacers? There's actually some talk about this! :o

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptpovtak10051004may10,1,6130654.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines

You gotta register... kinda lame. For those who be too lazy:

T-Mac watch

The talk last month about trading Tracy McGrady if he doesn't assure the Magic he will re-sign after becoming a free agent in 2005 really won't intensify until later this summer -- after the draft and the free-agent signings.

But that hasn't kept the initial inquiries and rumors from flying and floating. They are a good indication, though, that Magic never will get equal value if they made the awful decision to trade him.

Phoenix, for example, is ready to send Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson and Jake Voskuhl to Orlando for McGrady. There is talk about an Al Harrington/Jonathan Bender combination for McGrady. Houston would give up an unhappy Steve Francis (right) and just about anyone else on the roster except Yao Ming for McGrady.

But 20 good players don't add up in value to one great one in the NBA. It's a game won by superstars, not wannabes.

Suaveness
05-10-2004, 02:42 PM
No thanks.

diego
05-10-2004, 02:46 PM
No thanks.



WHAT!! In a heartbeat. Dont get enamoured with a glimpse of Bender. If we had the chance at TMAC, teamed with ROn and JO. OMG...YES YES YES.

Al is a good player and could be better but he is inconsistent and Bender has just now shown us a glimpse but is oft injured. TMAC is a proven superstar.

Suaveness
05-10-2004, 03:02 PM
No thanks.



WHAT!! In a heartbeat. Dont get enamoured with a glimpse of Bender. If we had the chance at TMAC, teamed with ROn and JO. OMG...YES YES YES.

Al is a good player and could be better but he is inconsistent and Bender has just now shown us a glimpse but is oft injured. TMAC is a proven superstar.

A superstar whose team was the worst in basketball, and let his team go and lose 19 straight games. We lose Al and Jon, we have no bench.

Ragnar
05-10-2004, 03:04 PM
They would want Freddie also I would think.

If Al is serious about thinking he is going to be a starter this would be the best possible deal we could get for him. Just because T-Mac has not played much if any D does not mean that Jermaine and Rick would not get him to.

I would do this deal in a heartbeat if it were as listed. Bender is alsways going to be injury prone. It would be terrible to see him when he is playing well for them, but it would not be so bad when he is injured for half the year.

Roy Munson
05-10-2004, 03:28 PM
I don't think I'd do it if the deal was Harrington-Bender-Jones for McGrady. It would be tempting, but I think I'd decline.

There are winners and there are losers in the NBA, and T-Mac hasn't proven to be a winner. He hasn't made the players around him better. There is doubt in my mind how the Pacers would chemistry would work with a trio of Artest-ONeal-McGrady. Artest likes to work with the ball a lot. He'd see a lot less of the ball with McGrady on board.

I don't think the Pacers would agree to this either. I don't think they'll trade for a player unless he is a great defender, or a potentially great defender.

Unclebuck
05-10-2004, 03:38 PM
it is very hard for me to think straight right now in the middle of the playoffs. But I think I would trade AL and Bender for T-Mac.

Do you realize that would give the Pacers three top 15 players. No other team has that or will have that. T-Mac can be a good defender, in fact he can be a very good defender.

ABADays
05-10-2004, 03:43 PM
No way I would do a 3-1 deal.

Roy Munson
05-10-2004, 03:44 PM
it is very hard for me to think straight right now in the middle of the playoffs.

What's the problem? Are you drunk? or maybe just 'drunk' with the euphoria of 6 playoff wins in a row!?

diego
05-10-2004, 03:47 PM
TMAC led a crap team to the playoffs last year. He has had no talent around him and is expected to make his team better. Give me a break. He has led the league in scoring the past two years and is damn near unstoppable. He and Kobe are the 2 best SG in the game.

He is a solid defender and probably if put ona team with a legit shot and other good defenders, he would be a great defender. He has long arms, can jump, and is quick.

As far as it depleting our bench. We played the whole year without Bender anyways. Yes we would lose AL, but we gain a player that scores 28 a game. Maybe im missing something here. We would still have a deep bench. Croshere, Freddie, James Jones, AJ and Miller. Plus you would not want a terribly deep bench because there would be no playing time for a bunch of players.

I am sorry, but if you can get TMAC for anyone not named JO or ARtest, it is a NO BRAINER.

Shade
05-10-2004, 03:47 PM
I'm a big Bender fan and I would do Al/Jonnie for TMac in a heartbeat.

ROCislandWarrior
05-10-2004, 04:05 PM
I can't believe that people would turn this down.

We would be unstopable.

Tins would continue to run the Offense and would have another scorer to dish the ball to.

Tmac would be the guy this team has wanted for a long time...a guy who can create. You can't honestly tell me that Tmac defense is worse than reggie's!

Artest would still be doing his thing overpowering smaller players. I don't want to here the "Artest likes to hold the ball" defense because Artest holding the ball is not good for the team and the offensive flow.

JO would have even less pressure on him and could very effectively run the Pick and Roll with Tmac (think about that :o ).

Foster would be Foster, austrailian for rebound.

we would lose Al (a major loss) but JB hardley plays, and as good as I think he can be, I think we need to focus on Winning a championship this/next season. If JO went out Al wouldn't be there, but, Tmac and Ron could easily carry the load a couple of nights without JO.



Answer me this, who could beat us in a seven game series with "Tmac, Ron and JO"?

The only thing that would stop me from making this trade is if we win the chip this year, JB plays a significant role and Al wants to be a part of this team next season.

Unclebuck
05-10-2004, 04:07 PM
Would any team in the league have a big three anywhere near as good as T-Mac, Ronnie and J.O., and all are so young still.

I do see a possible problem, Ronnie likes to have the ball and so does T-Mac

Slick Pinkham
05-10-2004, 04:11 PM
It's nice to win 61 games. I think we will be even BETTER next year.

The thought of adding TMac without losing JO or Ron-- well---

can you say 70 wins?

ROCislandWarrior
05-10-2004, 04:17 PM
It's nice to win 61 games. I think we will be even BETTER next year.

The thought of adding TMac without losing JO or Ron-- well---

can you say 70 wins?

70 wins would be nice, but I don't care if "Tmac, Ron and JO" only got us around 60 again. The only thing that matters is who brings home the :trophy:

sweabs
05-10-2004, 04:18 PM
Gimme T-Mac anyday - not likely to happen though.

Suaveness
05-10-2004, 04:27 PM
Our bench would not get enough scoring. Lets see...Croshere, Freddie, Miller, James, Brewer, Primoz, and whoever else.

Cro will not be consistantly scoring. We know that from this year.

Miller is coming off the bench, and I have doubts about if he can be nonrusty.

Fred is the only person who I think could give a scoring punch.

The others are all unproven. This does not comfort me.

indytoad
05-10-2004, 04:29 PM
The one thing I'm suprised no one has mentioned is this:

T-Mac watch

The talk last month about trading Tracy McGrady if he doesn't assure the Magic he will re-sign after becoming a free agent in 2005 really won't intensify until later this summer -- after the draft and the free-agent signings.

Do you really think he'd resign here? He'll demand the max and somehow I doubt the Pacers would be willing to oblige. Trade Bender and Harrington so we can have T-Mac for just one year...? I dunno about that.

IndyToad
Clearly lost its mind

Hicks
05-10-2004, 04:30 PM
T-Mac to Indy without giving up O'Neal or Artest? Yes please.

sweabs
05-10-2004, 04:37 PM
One other thing about T-Mac...the injuries (specifically the back...???).

P.S. What is with Benders nick 5.1?

Ragnar
05-10-2004, 04:38 PM
The one thing I'm suprised no one has mentioned is this:

T-Mac watch

The talk last month about trading Tracy McGrady if he doesn't assure the Magic he will re-sign after becoming a free agent in 2005 really won't intensify until later this summer -- after the draft and the free-agent signings.

Do you really think he'd resign here? He'll demand the max and somehow I doubt the Pacers would be willing to oblige. Trade Bender and Harrington so we can have T-Mac for just one year...? I dunno about that.

IndyToad
Clearly lost its mind

He is getting Max now why would it be any different then? Cro and Pollard will be off the books more than making up for the increase in Tinsleys pay. He will only be a free agent if he opts out. He could not get any more money if he opted out of his deal than he is getting right now. The only reason to do that would be to leave. If we are a serious title threat (and we are and would be with him) he would be stupid to leave.

If we do win it all this year and Reggie retires this would be the best possible deal we could make. We would need a new sg and as much as I like Freddie he does not spread the floor like T-Mac would. Yes we would lose bench scoring from Al but T-Mac would more than make up for it. He would get both Al's and Reggie's shots and that would be enough to not rock the boat too much between Ron and Jermaine.

Our starters would be very very scary. We would have three legitimate all stars. A point guard who is more than happy to get them all the ball and a center who would love nothing more than to just get boards and play D. The only problem is that I dont think they will do it. It would be a great deal form them as well as us. They need size the way we will need a guard. I just see them being stupid and going after Steve Francis.

diego
05-10-2004, 04:47 PM
Our bench would not get enough scoring. Lets see...Croshere, Freddie, Miller, James, Brewer, Primoz, and whoever else.

Cro will not be consistantly scoring. We know that from this year.

Miller is coming off the bench, and I have doubts about if he can be nonrusty.

Fred is the only person who I think could give a scoring punch.

The others are all unproven. This does not comfort me.



Suave,
you do understand we would not just play all bench at same time right? I am sure with three legit 20ppg scorers that they would be able to mix and match bench players with starters as to not lose scoring punch.

Also we played all year without Bender and Al only averages 13 a game. Freddie is good for 10 a game, and Croshere would get regualr minutes and average 10 a game. If Reg is still here he gets 6-10 a game, im sorry i just dont see where you are coming from. So we lose Als 13 ppg, we gain Tmacs 28ppg, so we are still plus in points.

I guess i just dont understand your point about points. Between TMAc, JO, And Ron, we would be guaranteed 60 points a game. you throw in 10 from Tinsley, 6 from Foster, and thats 76 fromt he starters. That would mean we would only need around 24 ppg from bench which would consisit of Croshere, Freddie, James Jones, AJ....to score a 100 a game. Obviously those are made up numbers but all very feasible when you break it down...and thats not to mention one of the big three going off for big nights.

diego
05-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Not to mention the goal is to win a ring. I would not care how many games we won in regular season because in playoffs ina seven gane series...good luck against that lineup.

Suaveness
05-10-2004, 05:07 PM
Our bench would not get enough scoring. Lets see...Croshere, Freddie, Miller, James, Brewer, Primoz, and whoever else.

Cro will not be consistantly scoring. We know that from this year.

Miller is coming off the bench, and I have doubts about if he can be nonrusty.

Fred is the only person who I think could give a scoring punch.

The others are all unproven. This does not comfort me.



Suave,
you do understand we would not just play all bench at same time right? I am sure with three legit 20ppg scorers that they would be able to mix and match bench players with starters as to not lose scoring punch.

Also we played all year without Bender and Al only averages 13 a game. Freddie is good for 10 a game, and Croshere would get regualr minutes and average 10 a game. If Reg is still here he gets 6-10 a game, im sorry i just dont see where you are coming from. So we lose Als 13 ppg, we gain Tmacs 28ppg, so we are still plus in points.

I guess i just dont understand your point about points. Between TMAc, JO, And Ron, we would be guaranteed 60 points a game. you throw in 10 from Tinsley, 6 from Foster, and thats 76 fromt he starters. That would mean we would only need around 24 ppg from bench which would consisit of Croshere, Freddie, James Jones, AJ....to score a 100 a game. Obviously those are made up numbers but all very feasible when you break it down...and thats not to mention one of the big three going off for big nights.

Al not only scores, but provides post play off the bench. Do you really think Cro is going to get the minutes you think he is. I don't. I see him getting the same as this year. Fred I think can get around 10, and Reg can get around 6, and there is a possibility he won't even be here. With those 3 in the lineup, Foster won't get 6 and Tinsley won't get 10. And I don't see 60 points from those 3. Realistically, someone is going to have to give up points. You won't have each avg 20 a game.

Hoop
05-10-2004, 05:09 PM
I love Al and still love Bender's potential, but how could anyone in there right mind turn down this trade. I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

able
05-10-2004, 05:11 PM
Al wont be here no matter what, unless he wants to remain the 6th man.

Let's face that reality to begin with, he will ask a trade, if we don't win it all, there is no place for him to be starting with JO and Ron in front of him.

JB, not matter how much I like him and no matter how much potential he has, is still "unproven" where T-Mac is a proven All Star.

I have little doubt that JB will grow over his injury sensitivity, but still we will have to wait another year for JB and then.....

T-Mac however would only be "acceptible under a few clear but important points:

1. it should be a sign and trade, in other words, he would be signed for at least another 4 years on his current contract (preferably 6) before we consider, trading that much talent and power for a 1 year rental is unacceptable,
2. JO and Ron "agree" with this, as well as T-Mac agreeing with a "pecking order" on the team, we do not want to many superstars claiming the same team being "theirs".
3. T-Mac agrees to the "Pacers concept"

If that can happen then, YES, immediately.

I can not see ANYONE beating us in the next 5 years with that line-up.

Kid Minneapolis
05-10-2004, 05:16 PM
Foster would be Foster, austrailian for rebound.

LOL! :D

able
05-10-2004, 05:19 PM
Foster would be Foster, austrailian for rebound.

LOL! :D

True, but a lousy Brit brew.

Chambizzle
05-10-2004, 05:31 PM
http://home.insightbb.com/~dgooding9/Files/bender1.jpg

Back to the subject...

I'd do it... but contract wise... it didn't matchup on realGM *shrug*

able
05-10-2004, 05:38 PM
Back to the subject...

I'd do it... but contract wise... it didn't matchup on realGM *shrug*

hmm someone of those is BYC but not at the end of the season :D

Al & JB make 12.7 collectively, T-Mac makes 13.5

easy fit, once the byc is off.

Ragnar
05-10-2004, 05:45 PM
Real GM is wrong. It is well within the required% We would not have to include anyone else.

TheSauceMaster
05-10-2004, 05:45 PM
Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 30.9 minutes)
SF Jonathan Bender (7.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.9 minutes)
Indiana receives: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.7 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and +3.4 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Al Harrington (13.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 79 games)
SF Jonathan Bender (7.0 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 21 games)
Change in team outlook: -7.7 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and -3.4 apg.

TRADE DECLINED

There were BYC players involved in this trade, so this trade is subject to the BYC provisions of the CBA. Due to Orlando and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Orlando and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only Orlando met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

able
05-10-2004, 06:04 PM
Yep, as I already said, I believe JB is BYC, but he will not be "after" the season is over, that is the point, then the salaries match easily (diiference max = 12,640 x 1.15 = 14,536 + 100 = 14.636 . T-Mac makes 14,487 next year

So per the new season (salaries are based upon that upcoming season) the BYC would no longer count against JB and the trade would be accepted.

Now, would the additional demands be met, that's another question.

Hicks
05-10-2004, 06:21 PM
It wouldn't be hard to tweak it to make it work financially.

Chambizzle
05-10-2004, 06:48 PM
I know about the BYC coming off...

I was just poking fun at RealGM

bulletproof
05-10-2004, 06:53 PM
Let's be honest, this season has been a happy accident. A pleasant surprise. But a move like this would show me that management smells blood and is serious about winning a championship. How do you defend a line-up of JO, Ron and TMac? And let's not forget Tins is starting to come into his own. Just the thought of this makes me giddy.

Pig Nash
05-10-2004, 06:57 PM
Lets be honest, this "happy accident" has a better than good shot at the Title this year.

:unimpressed:

bulletproof
05-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Lets be honest, this "happy accident" has a better than good shot at the Title this year.

:unimpressed:


Um, what's your point? I know DW didn't expect the team (he built) to have this good of a year, did you? It's a happy accident that it turned out the way it did.

Pig Nash
05-10-2004, 07:09 PM
Sorry, i'm just kind of peeved at all of the trade threads. I don't like to mess with the chemistry of the team.

SpADeD
05-10-2004, 07:17 PM
I don't care who you are, you would literally be insane not to accept this trade. Al and Bender for TMAC? 2 bench players for an all star? Hell yes I would do this. Al would probably demand a trade after this year depending on if we win the title.

Seriously, the starters would more than make up for the bench play. Look at the Lakers when they had their title run, I don't really remember them having a legit 6th/7th man. The only thing I would be worried about is JO not liking this trade if it happened, since him Al and JB have a close bond.

Ragnar
05-10-2004, 07:24 PM
I don't care who you are, you would literally be insane not to accept this trade. Al and Bender for TMAC? 2 bench players for an all star? Hell yes I would do this. Al would probably demand a trade after this year depending on if we win the title.

Seriously, the starters would more than make up for the bench play. Look at the Lakers when they had their title run, I don't really remember them having a legit 6th/7th man. The only thing I would be worried about is JO not liking this trade if it happened, since him Al and JB have a close bond.

Jermaine talked publicly about wanting to play with T-Mac after last season. Now he could have just been talking but they were not a team with cap room to sign him so I doubt he was just trying to goose his value. I think if Reggie retires this could work. Give him Reggie's shots and Al's shots and that would not take any away from Jermaine or Ron. Plus I think T-Mac wants a ring enough that he would be willing to give up a couple of shots.

One of the knock on T-Mac in Orlando is that he allowed Armstrong be the leader of the team and that he would rather it be someone else who was the leader other than himself. So I dont think he would chafe at letting Jermaine be the leader.

Hicks
05-10-2004, 07:28 PM
a move like this would show me that management smells blood and is serious about winning a championship.

I've often seen as a criticism of Donnie Walsh that he's not seroius about winning a championship. Do you feel this may at all be true, why or why not?

Suaveness
05-10-2004, 07:34 PM
a move like this would show me that management smells blood and is serious about winning a championship.

I've often seen as a criticism of Donnie Walsh that he's not seroius about winning a championship. Do you feel this may at all be true, why or why not?

If trading for JO and Artest is not serious about winning a title, I don't know what is.

Hicks
05-10-2004, 07:37 PM
a move like this would show me that management smells blood and is serious about winning a championship.

I've often seen as a criticism of Donnie Walsh that he's not serious about winning a championship. Do you feel this may at all be true, why or why not?

If trading for JO and Artest is not serious about winning a title, I don't know what is.

You might be missing my point. It's not that I see people who feel Walsh wants a bad team, it's that usually the chain of thought is "he only wants to compete, not truly contend.

bulletproof
05-10-2004, 10:00 PM
a move like this would show me that management smells blood and is serious about winning a championship.

I've often seen as a criticism of Donnie Walsh that he's not seroius about winning a championship. Do you feel this may at all be true, why or why not?

I have no doubt he wants to win a championship, but I think his sense of responsibility to the Simons might get in the way of that sometimes.

wintermute
05-10-2004, 10:21 PM
if orlando wants to trade tmac we should get in line. bender and harrington are great, but they don't compare with tmac.

i have a feeling this thread is moot anyway, orlando won't be letting their franchise player go so easily. and other teams could offer more.

beast23
05-10-2004, 10:28 PM
HAPPY ACCIDENT???

That's a ridiculous statement. A team doesn't win 61 games by accident, or even relying on luck. None of us expected this team to come together this quickly, but I think you need to face the facts. There is only one conclusion. This team is THAT good.

But I definitely agree with the point that you make. Don't sit pat; don't stand still. Continuously do what you have to do to improve.

For those that say that we would be world-beaters if we made this trade, I have one word for you: LAKERS. Having 3 stars in your lineup, or 4 for that matter, is no guarantee for success.

Detroit got Rasheed. We stood pat, and the Pistons gained ground on us. And I think that as much as Detroit has improved and as good as they are, it will be next season where their team begins to gain the most from that trade.

I think you have to weigh what you give up for what is to be gained. That's what the Pistons did, and I think that's what we do with respect to the proposed trade. If you give up your 6th man and your 8th/9th man to get a starting player that is either the first or second best shooting guard in the league, I think without question you make the trade. [But you do make certain that you've got TM locked in for 4-5 years.]

As some say, it thins our bench. The starters playe more minutes. Ready or not, we suddenly have to rely on Croshere. Suddenly, we are playing about eight players. The starters, Croshere, AJ and Freddie. We would have to hope that Brezec and/or Pollard improve quite a bit. Or, if we re-sign him, maybe James Jones.

We would be set at the guard positions and at center. We would only have to worry about getting backup help at the forward positions. And just maybe, we could find our own Karl Malone available... a decent free agent forward willing to sign for all or part of the MLE in hopes of landing a ring.

But I think you make the trade. It changes the face of the team, but probably makes it better.

bulletproof
05-10-2004, 10:46 PM
HAPPY ACCIDENT???

That's a ridiculous statement. A team doesn't win 61 games by accident, or even relying on luck. None of us expected this team to come together this quickly, but I think you need to face the facts. There is only one conclusion. This team is THAT good.

I didn't say they weren't. In fact, I predicted a trip to the finals before the season started. But what's the opposite of accident in this context? Planned. I know Donnie wouldn't say, "This season was all part of a master plan." Even he didn't see it coming together so soon. You missed my point.

Tim
05-10-2004, 11:12 PM
it is very hard for me to think straight right now in the middle of the playoffs. But I think I would trade AL and Bender for T-Mac.

Do you realize that would give the Pacers three top 15 players. No other team has that or will have that. T-Mac can be a good defender, in fact he can be a very good defender.

Too bad you could not keep that team together.
Pacers will not pay JO, Ron and T-Mac max money and all three command it.

Best season ever so far, and within the owners budget, you won't see major change anytime soon.

Tim
05-10-2004, 11:16 PM
TMAC led a crap team to the playoffs last year. He has had no talent around him and is expected to make his team better. Give me a break. He has led the league in scoring the past two years and is damn near unstoppable. He and Kobe are the 2 best SG in the game.

He is a solid defender and probably if put ona team with a legit shot and other good defenders, he would be a great defender. He has long arms, can jump, and is quick.

As far as it depleting our bench. We played the whole year without Bender anyways. Yes we would lose AL, but we gain a player that scores 28 a game. Maybe im missing something here. We would still have a deep bench. Croshere, Freddie, James Jones, AJ and Miller. Plus you would not want a terribly deep bench because there would be no playing time for a bunch of players.

I am sorry, but if you can get TMAC for anyone not named JO or ARtest, it is a NO BRAINER.

Make the trade and T-Mac will not score that much here, JO will remain the first option.

If we can't keep a center like Brad Miller, how are we gonna keep T-Mac, JO and Artest? All three are max players (When Artest opts out, he will get max).

Tim
05-10-2004, 11:27 PM
I love Al and still love Bender's potential, but how could anyone in there right mind turn down this trade. I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

The guys in their right mind that will not do this trade is Donnie because he can't afford a max JO, T-Max with is new max contract, and Ron when it comes time to resign him.

If Donnie could do it Brad Miller would be here right now.

I know some of you hate it but the Simons will not pay tax.

The first thing Larry was told when Donnie brought him back was "we will not pay tax".

I am a huge Al fan and want him to stay, but even I would have to give up my boyee if the team could realistically bring in T-Mac and keep JO, Ron, and still have enough left over to bring in a few tweaks.

Tim
05-10-2004, 11:34 PM
Al wont be here no matter what, unless he wants to remain the 6th man.

Let's face that reality to begin with, he will ask a trade, if we don't win it all, there is no place for him to be starting with JO and Ron in front of him.

JB, not matter how much I like him and no matter how much potential he has, is still "unproven" where T-Mac is a proven All Star.

I have little doubt that JB will grow over his injury sensitivity, but still we will have to wait another year for JB and then.....

T-Mac however would only be "acceptible under a few clear but important points:

1. it should be a sign and trade, in other words, he would be signed for at least another 4 years on his current contract (preferably 6) before we consider, trading that much talent and power for a 1 year rental is unacceptable,
2. JO and Ron "agree" with this, as well as T-Mac agreeing with a "pecking order" on the team, we do not want to many superstars claiming the same team being "theirs".
3. T-Mac agrees to the "Pacers concept"

If that can happen then, YES, immediately.

I can not see ANYONE beating us in the next 5 years with that line-up.


When Reggie steps down, Ron can slide to the SG, we have seen this before and have been very successful with it.

Anthem
05-11-2004, 12:02 AM
I'd like to point out that if you search the archives, you'll see that I've proposed this trade twice as an intriguing possibility for the worthless Magic. Bender/Harrington would be a pretty good forward tandem for Orlando to put out on the floor. Freddy/Harrington/Bender would be pushing it, for me. But Harrington and Bender? Done and done.

As far as those worried about money, don't. Trading Al and Bender would free up as much as it would cost to keep TMac. Tinsley will need a payday, but Reggie will be coming off the books. Ron and JO are locked up. Croshere and Pollard will eventually go on their merry ways. The money works fine.

Foster/JO/Artest/TMac/Tinsley makes a pretty durned good starting five. Freddy Jones could back up both guard positions, Croshere could back up both frontcourt positions, and we'd need an extra swingman. J.Jones may eventually turn into that player, but he's not ready yet. Long and short of it is that we'd need an extra player at the swing positions to bring off the bench. I could live with that... somebody decent should be available for Kenny's minimum.

And the people who say TMac can't play defense are hitting the weed. He was an excellent defender several years ago, back when he had a coach and teammates. I remember an Indystar discussion where we all eventually agreed that the top two SGs in the league were TMac and Kobe, and while Kobe might be the better offensive player, TMac was definately better on defense. Several years ago, but still.

able
05-11-2004, 12:38 AM
I'd like to point out that if you search the archives, you'll see that I've proposed this trade twice as an intriguing possibility for the worthless Magic. Bender/Harrington would be a pretty good forward tandem for Orlando to put out on the floor. Freddy/Harrington/Bender would be pushing it, for me. But Harrington and Bender? Done and done.

As far as those worried about money, don't. Trading Al and Bender would free up as much as it would cost to keep TMac. Tinsley will need a payday, but Reggie will be coming off the books. Ron and JO are locked up. Croshere and Pollard will eventually go on their merry ways. The money works fine.

Foster/JO/Artest/TMac/Tinsley makes a pretty durned good starting five. Freddy Jones could back up both guard positions, Croshere could back up both frontcourt positions, and we'd need an extra swingman. J.Jones may eventually turn into that player, but he's not ready yet. Long and short of it is that we'd need an extra player at the swing positions to bring off the bench. I could live with that... somebody decent should be available for Kenny's minimum.

And the people who say TMac can't play defense are hitting the weed. He was an excellent defender several years ago, back when he had a coach and teammates. I remember an Indystar discussion where we all eventually agreed that the top two SGs in the league were TMac and Kobe, and while Kobe might be the better offensive player, TMac was definately better on defense. Several years ago, but still.

Spot on!

and as far as Ron's salary is concerned, he just signed an extension and won't be a problem for another 5 years.

in that time, indeed Cro, Polly will be off the books, Reggie will be off the books, so Tins can get what he will command next year, Cro or Polly money.

No problem. I do not see it happen, but it is damn well possible and a darned nice dream......



:stupid:

Tim
05-11-2004, 02:24 AM
Can't Artest opt out after a couple of years?

TheSauceMaster
05-11-2004, 02:37 AM
Can't Artest opt out after a couple of years?

He can't op out til 2008/09 his last year

Will Galen
05-11-2004, 03:55 AM
One of the knock on T-Mac in Orlando is that he allowed Armstrong be the leader of the team and that he would rather it be someone else who was the leader other than himself. So I dont think he would chafe at letting Jermaine be the leader.

That's a VERY GOOD point!

wintermute
05-11-2004, 08:17 AM
money won't be a problem. tmac won't make much more than what he is making now, which is the MAX. and artest won't need a new contract until years yet, as people have pointed out. who knows what the financial rules will be by then.

really, the only question should be whether orlando would agree :D

Hicks
05-11-2004, 10:14 AM
Can't Artest opt out after a couple of years?

He can't op out til 2008/09 his last year

And to top it off, I don't think he will anyway.

Anthem
05-12-2004, 11:34 PM
Bump.

Too bad our trade value just went down.