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View Full Version : For those questioning J.O., read this, possible surgery



Unclebuck
05-19-2005, 10:03 AM
This is from the Detroit News. From a Detroit writer. So before we start drawing conclusions about J.O not being able to step up in the playoffs, lets be sure we know what is really going on. I'm convinced that if this were the regular season J.O would be on the IL.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons.../D04-186308.htm




Q. Back to the Pistons-Pacers series. How badly is Jermaine O'Neal's shoulder bothering him?

A. It looked real bad in Game 5. At halftime, he was bent over and wincing in pain. He played most of the game essentially left-handed.

He has been a trooper, though, refusing to make excuses or even admitting that it's affecting his game. But he's not a 34 percent shooter, not when he's healthy. I wouldn't be surprised if he has surgery right after the season.

Mushmouth
05-19-2005, 10:06 AM
Nothing is worse on this board than the JO bashing. I've laid it out a few times, but he's everything you want in a franchise player. Plays hurt, loves the community, relishes the challenge of keeping the pacers on top... One of these days he'll actually be HEALTHY for the playoffs.

Unclebuck
05-19-2005, 10:08 AM
I'm also bring this article over here.
Now to the Detroit Free Press.


http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons...9e_20050519.htm

MITCH ALBOM: Friendships don't have time-outs

May 19, 2005






BY MITCH ALBOM
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST



So I'm walking past the Palace loading dock Tuesday night, after the Pistons waxed the Pacers in Game 5 of their series, and there, standing by the bus, were Rasheed Wallace and Jermaine O'Neal, and they were talking and laughing and at one point they must have shared a joke so funny that Rasheed doubled over and shook his head in hysterics.


Now, as you know, these two do not play for the same team. An hour earlier, they had been battling on the court. They often guard each other in the blood feud known as Detroit-Indiana. They are "opponents" in every sports sense of the word.


Recently, it came out that these two men, friends since their days together in Portland, had spent last Saturday night, the night before Game 4, at O'Neal's house, watching a fight on TV.


Personally, my reaction was, "I wonder how big a screen Jermaine has?" I always think someone has better electronic equipment than I do, and then I get sad, and then I get catalogues. It's a guy thing.


Anyhow, apparently others are more conspiracy-oriented. Some suggest Jermaine-Rasheed is a breach of sports ethics, that you shouldn't socialize with the "enemy" the night before the game. I was watching one of those ESPN afternoon programs and saw Skip Bayless, an old friend of mine, arguing with Woody Paige about this very subject. How could Rasheed and Jermaine hang out like that? Wouldn't they lose the drive to defeat one another? Enemies can never be friends! Wait until the series is over!


Why, my radio partner Ken Brown said the same thing when we spoke about it. "Wait till the series is done for your relationship thing!" or something like that. I should point out that Ken is a professional comedian, just so Rasheed doesn't come looking for him.


Anyhow, I've heard enough on this to ask myself, "Is there really not a problem here, or am I nuts?"


I'm not nuts.



Old school? Dumars calls it 'archaic'
"Guys have friends on every team," Tayshaun Prince told me at the Palace. "It's no big deal. People are just saying that because of who we're playing."


So you don't care if Rasheed and Jermaine hang out?


"Nah," he said. "Why should I?"


Good question. Thanks for your time.


I called Joe Dumars, the Pistons' president of basketball operations. Years ago, Dumars was friendly with Michael Jordan during the years when the Pistons and Bulls had their annual showdowns. He never ate dinner with Jordan the night before a game -- that wasn't his style or the nature of the friendship -- but he has no problem with Rasheed doing it.


"Especially a guy like Rasheed," Dumars said. "It's not gonna make him any less competitive than he already is.


"I think it's kind of archaic to think you need a personal hatred for the guy you play against. Besides, from a healthy friendship standpoint, friends like having bragging rights."


So why do some fans think it's wrong?


"An antiquated way of thinking," Dumars said. "Fans think you sit in a room and pound your head against something, you punch the walls trying to get ready. That's just uninformed."


Not to mention bad for your knuckles.



Good friends like to rub it in, too
Now, it's not as if there isn't precedent for friendly rivalries. Even Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell, who were as famous as rivals can get, would, on the same day as the annual Thanksgiving game between Philly and Boston, eat together at Chamberlain's place, with his mother cooking.


And if those guys could pass the potatoes without losing their sizzle, why can't everyone else?


Oh, I know some players think it's sacrilege to even look at the other guy during the playoffs. But the fact is, today's NBA players share agents, commercials, vacations, golf tournaments and off-season nightclubbing. Who's kidding whom about freshly minted "hatred"?


It seems to me this is more about fans' projecting the hate they have for the opponent. Players know one day they could be playing against a guy, and the next day, thanks to a trade, they're teammates. You play hard either way.


In the end, I sought out a man who was never known for his friendly relations -- Rick Mahorn. Big and nasty in his days as a Piston, Mahorn didn't win any Mr. Congeniality awards. A perfect source, I figured.


"Is it OK," I asked Rick, who was wearing a very nice suit while towering over me in the Palace tunnel, "to be friendly with a guy on the other team and the night before a game watch a fight at his house?"


(I immediately thought, given Rick's past, that his response would be, "Depends on the fight." But he surprised me.)


"You'll be a friend longer than you'll be a basketball player," he said. "It doesn't bother me if players from other teams hang out the night before a game. Years later, even if you were friends, you'll still want to be able to say to the other guy, 'I kicked your butt.' "


Did you ever do that, I asked, with friends you had in the league?


"I didn't have too many friends," he said.


Oh, right.


So there's always that solution.


Contact MITCH ALBOM at 313-223-45

Reggie4Three
05-19-2005, 10:10 AM
I won't bash JO, but in this case I'll do the other unthinkable. I'm questioning Carlisle for not only letting JO stay out there and play so terribly, but also for keep making him the focus of our offense. If JO can't play effectively, play Jeff Foster more and let's just let Reggie go down firing.

Jon Theodore
05-19-2005, 10:19 AM
I've partaken in the JO bashing, but i've never liked JO. His comments about the age limit being racist was the stupidiest thing I've ever heard. That is my MAIN reason for not liking JO. Anything else is icing on the cake.

But, I will give JO credit for WANTING to play. But at the same time, you would think someone who is a multi millionaire could at least have the brains to realize he needs to defer to his HEALTHY teammates. There are not many of them, but most are better off than he is.

PASS THE BALL. Even if Carlisle calls your number...if you don't have a good look in the paint....PASS THE ROCK.

Mushmouth
05-19-2005, 10:20 AM
I won't bash JO, but in this case I'll do the other unthinkable. I'm questioning Carlisle for not only letting JO stay out there and play so terribly, but also for keep making him the focus of our offense. If JO can't play effectively, play Jeff Foster more and let's just let Reggie go down firing.

You have a point there. I'd rather see the "Return of the Motion" tonight if J.O.'s shoulder is so bad that he really can't use his right hand or the left block...

brichard
05-19-2005, 10:35 AM
You have a point there. I'd rather see the "Return of the Motion" tonight if J.O.'s shoulder is so bad that he really can't use his right hand or the left block...


I think somebody should define to me what "bashing" means. There is a point where people are too harsh, but there is such a thing as valid criticism.

Mushmouth
05-19-2005, 10:38 AM
I've partaken in the JO bashing, but i've never liked JO. His comments about the age limit being racist was the stupidiest thing I've ever heard. That is my MAIN reason for not liking JO. Anything else is icing on the cake.

Was it really the "stupidiest" thing you've ever heard?

fwpacerfan
05-19-2005, 10:46 AM
I think somebody should define to me what "bashing" means. There is a point where people are too harsh, but there is such a thing as valid criticism.

Bashing is defined as saying something negative about a player someone likes. It doesn't have to be a real negative comment - anything will suffice.

As to JO, I have been extremely disappointed in him and I have been critical. My biggest problem with him is his mouth and his mental toughness. He constantly feels the need to make his thoughts known. His comment about Ben Wallace not being able to guard him has proved suicidal - Ben has owned him since then. His age limit comment was uncalled for as well. His (alleged) critiscism of Jackson was just plain ignorant. He let's the officials and sometimes other players affect his game as well. He needs to keep his mind on the game and keep his emotions out of it.

My only problem with him on the court has been his defense. I think he let on to Rasheed before the series started that his shoulder was really bad because since game 1 whoever JO is guarding, Rasheed, Ben Wallace or McDyess, they are taking it to him on offense and JO has not responded. On offense JO has looked almost scared. I think he is really intimidated by the Wallace boys. Maybe some of that has to do with his shoulder. If his shoulder is the reason he is struggling then he needs to outhink his opponent and find a way to get other players open shots.

ABADays
05-19-2005, 10:46 AM
I have taken issue with JO. I didn't consider it bashing because I like the guy. And I haven't based my opinions on just the playoffs. Jermaine has a lot of areas he needs to improve - REAL leadership is one of them. I hope it happens.

Unclebuck
05-19-2005, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=fwpacerfan]
As to JO, I have been extremely disappointed in him and I have been critical. My biggest problem with him is his mouth and his mental toughness. He constantly feels the need to make his thoughts known. His comment about Ben Wallace not being able to guard him has proved suicidal - Ben has owned him since then. /QUOTE]


Whenever Sheed is in the game he guards J.O. Ben doesn't. In fact the few times Ben has guarded him one-on -one J.O has had pretty good sucess, a few times being able to back him in and shoot over him.

I hate when things get spun, J.O never said Ben wasn't a good defender. He said he was not that good a one-on-one defender when compared to Sheed

bmac
05-19-2005, 12:33 PM
[QUOTE=Unclebuck][QUOTE=fwpacerfan]
As to JO, I have been extremely disappointed in him and I have been critical. My biggest problem with him is his mouth and his mental toughness. He constantly feels the need to make his thoughts known. His comment about Ben Wallace not being able to guard him has proved suicidal - Ben has owned him since then. /QUOTE]

Remember when we played NJ in the playoffs and after a big game 1, JO said nobody on the NJ team could guard him..........?? Kenyon Martin guarded him and ripped him up the rest of the series on offense AND defense. I was embarrassed for Jermanine after that. Just shut up and play. Well. Hopefully.

NamShub
05-19-2005, 12:50 PM
Remember when we played NJ in the playoffs and after a big game 1, JO said nobody on the NJ team could guard him..........?? Kenyon Martin guarded him and ripped him up the rest of the series on offense AND defense.


I remember what Jermaine said, and I remember that he didn't do much else in that series after that. But I do not remember it being because KMart suddenly owned him one on one. Can someone else verify this? I'm sure I remember NJ sending doubles at him the rest of the series that were, sadly, very effective. Is my memory failing me here?

-Namshub

Unclebuck
05-19-2005, 12:53 PM
I remember what Jermaine said, and I remember that he didn't do much else in that series after that. But I do not remember it being because KMart suddenly owned him one on one. Can someone else verify this? I'm sure I remember NJ sending doubles at him the rest of the series that were, sadly, very effective. Is my memory failing me here?

-Namshub


The Nets did change their defense, they doubled at times, certainly shaded their defense towards him a lot more.

I really don't care what J.O says. What I mean is the fact that he struggled in the Nets series is enough for me, no matter what he said. it does not make it any worse because of what he said.

For those of you that it does bother. Would it be better for him to say, I really have trouble scoring against Kenyon, he is really good.

I just don't see how it matters what he says

Bball
05-19-2005, 01:00 PM
In the NJ game it actually was that JO had a good half. Did he make the comments at halftime?

I agree with the point I don't care what he says... As long as he backs it up and plays well. Otherwise he looks like a fool. You can't just 'say' stuff, you have to rise to the occassion with your actions as well.

-Bball

Bball
05-19-2005, 01:05 PM
The Nets did change their defense, they doubled at times, certainly shaded their defense towards him a lot more.

I really don't care what J.O says. What I mean is the fact that he struggled in the Nets series is enough for me, no matter what he said. it does not make it any worse because of what he said.

For those of you that it does bother. Would it be better for him to say, I really have trouble scoring against Kenyon, he is really good.

I just don't see how it matters what he says

It matters because it makes the 'leader apparent' look like a fool when he spouts off and then doesn't back it up with action on the court. It takes away from his credibility. You do it enough and you get question marks swirling around you about your ability to lead... or your ability to rise to the occassion of a big game. ANYONE can talk a good game.

And if he'd said "I really have trouble scoring against Kenyon, he is really good." ....Ummm franky... that doesn't bother me as long as he doesn't say it out of fear (or with fear). Those words, as you put them, really don't bother me.

-Bball

DisplacedKnick
05-19-2005, 01:38 PM
Geez guys - how many lifetimes ago was the Nets series?

Bball
05-19-2005, 01:40 PM
Geez guys - how many lifetimes ago was the Nets series?

Good point... You'd think he would've learned by now! :devil:

-Bball

Anthem
05-19-2005, 02:04 PM
He was right in the Nets series. He said "Nobody on that team can guard me one-on-one. It was a direct slam at Kenyon, but JO was right. He never faced single coverage again in that series. They always doubled and often tripled. Unfortunately, he never learned how to make teams pay for that.

fwpacerfan
05-19-2005, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=fwpacerfan]
As to JO, I have been extremely disappointed in him and I have been critical. My biggest problem with him is his mouth and his mental toughness. He constantly feels the need to make his thoughts known. His comment about Ben Wallace not being able to guard him has proved suicidal - Ben has owned him since then. /QUOTE]


Whenever Sheed is in the game he guards J.O. Ben doesn't. In fact the few times Ben has guarded him one-on -one J.O has had pretty good sucess, a few times being able to back him in and shoot over him.

I hate when things get spun, J.O never said Ben wasn't a good defender. He said he was not that good a one-on-one defender when compared to Sheed

Why did he even say that at all? It seems to me that O'Neal is trying to become like his hero Rasheed. He is getting close - all of the complaining, whining and mouthing off to the press sure sounds Rasheed to me.

The point is that we shouldn't even be discussing this if little Jermaine would keep his mouth shut. UB you've been making excuses for him saying he isn't 100% and I believe it. So if that's the case wouldn't that give you even more reasons to keep you mouth shut? Not Jermaine though, he decides to open his yapper and give a writer something to 'spin.'

BillS
05-19-2005, 04:49 PM
So what is Jermaine supposed to do? Voluntarily contribute his "won't talk to the press" fines?

The press will spin anything. If he'd said "The sky is blue" they'd run it as a claim that the Pacers (Blue and gold) rise above the Pistons.

There are stupid things - like, imagine where we'd be if someone had guaranteed a victory in game 5 - and there are things that are just fine but that someone insists on taking out of context.

We all used to laugh at Bob Hill for trying to do those "look wat they said against us in the press" things when it wasn't justified.

fwpacerfan
05-19-2005, 05:00 PM
Why is it Reggie never gets "don't talk to the press" fines and he never seems to say anything stupid? Same with Dale Davis, Rip Hamilton, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, etc., etc.

The reason? They think BEFORE they speak.

Unclebuck
05-19-2005, 05:01 PM
I just think we all get caught with things that don't matter

Anthem
05-19-2005, 05:06 PM
Why is it Reggie never gets "don't talk to the press" fines

I've wondered that myself. He really blows them off sometimes.

SoupIsGood
05-19-2005, 05:17 PM
I just think we all get caught with things that don't matter

BINGO!

I could care less what these players say to the media, really.

As for Jermaine, I've thought all along that most players would still be on the IR right now with this type of injury, so I've tried to not be too harsh on Jermaine.

And that last article was spot-on: "You'll be a friend longer than you'll be a basketball player"

King Mob
05-19-2005, 05:20 PM
So what is Jermaine supposed to do? Voluntarily contribute his "won't talk to the press" fines?

The press will spin anything. If he'd said "The sky is blue" they'd run it as a claim that the Pacers (Blue and gold) rise above the Pistons.

LOL!

ajbry
05-19-2005, 05:30 PM
PASS THE BALL. Even if Carlisle calls your number...if you don't have a good look in the paint....PASS THE ROCK.

Agreed. If he ain't feeling good, he needs to get his teammates involved, and play more of a limited role offensively, at least, scoring-wise.