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RWB
05-18-2005, 01:36 PM
As we say goodbye to Reg and try to find a replacement (probably SJAX) for his position how important in the big scheme of things is it?

Who has been the SG on teams who have at least made the finals? Was Reg the main reason we made the finals in 2000?

Ragnar
05-18-2005, 01:41 PM
Uh didnt Jordan win 6 titles? I would say that a shooting guard can be pretty important.

RWB
05-18-2005, 01:48 PM
Yes, Mike was a 2 but also a Basketball God. Thinking more along the lines on the Kittles and Hornaceks of the world.

Mushmouth
05-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Kobe was a large part of the Laker's success as well.

You could go back to the Lakers/Celts of the 80's and say their 2's were not a major factor. Spurs, Rockets (why can't I remember the starting 2 guard? Cassell and K.Smith, who else?) Dumars was pretty important to the Pistons of the 80's.

DisplacedKnick
05-18-2005, 01:54 PM
Rip's kind of important to Detroit.

dipperdunk
05-18-2005, 02:03 PM
Rockets (why can't I remember the starting 2 guard? Cassell and K.Smith, who else?)

I think they had Maxwell the 1st time and Drexler the following season.

Two guards are pretty important but usually teams with a dominant big man win it all. Even Jerry West though paired with Elgin couldn't win it all until he had Wilt. Usually with some exceptions(Bulls) you need a dominant big man.

RWB
05-18-2005, 02:03 PM
So now let me rephrase the question. Is Stephen Jackson good enough to be our starting 2 guard or do we need more of a pure shooter like a Korver from Philly?

Mushmouth
05-18-2005, 02:06 PM
So now let me rephrase the question. Is Stephen Jackson good enough to be our starting 2 guard or do we need more of a pure shooter like a Korver from Philly?


He is good enough


When JO is healthy again next year, the defense of Jackson, Artest and Jermaine will be oustanding, especially with Ron's ability to guard 2's and some 4's.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 02:14 PM
Do Shooting Guards win championships?

Were you vacationing on Mars during the 90's?


Who has been the SG on teams who have at least made the finals? Was Reg the main reason we made the finals in 2000?

Ok, I'll do my best to humor you.

By the way, I thought Reggie and Jalen Rose were reasons 1A and 1B why you made the finals.

Lets go back 35 years:

(w)=winning SG (l)= losing SG (mvp)=finals mvp.

1971:
Milwaukee Bucks- Bob Dandrige (w)
Baltimore Bullets- Earl Monroe (l)

1972:
LA Lakers- Jerry West (w)
NY Knicks- Earl Monroe (l)

1973:
NY Knicks- Earl Monroe (w)
LA Lakers- Jerry West (l)

1974:
Boston Celtics- John Havlicek (w) (mvp)
Milwaukee Bucks- Bob Dandrige (l)

1975:
Golden State Warriors- Butch Beard (w)
Washington Bullets- Phil Chenier (l)

1976:
Boston Celtics- John Havlicek (w)
Phoenix Suns- Paul Westphaul (l)

1977:
Portland Trailblazers- Lionel Hollins (w)
Philadelphia 76ers- World B Free (l)

1978:
Washington Bullets- Bob Dandrige (w)
Seattle Supersonics- Gus Williams (l)

1979:
Seattle Supersonics- Gus Williams (w)
Wasington Bullets- Bob Dandrige (l)

1980:
LA Lakers- Magic Johnson (w) (mvp)
Philadelphia 76ers- Lionel Hollins (l)

1981:
Boston Celtics- Chris Ford (w)
Houston Rockets- Mike Dunleavy (l)

1982:
LA Lakers- Norm Nixon (w)
Philadelphia 76ers- Andrew Toney (l)

1983:
Philadelphia 76ers- Andrew Toney (w)
La Lakers- Norm Nixon (l)

1984:
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (l)
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (l)

1985:
LA Lakers- Byron Scott- (w)
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (l)

1986:
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (w)
Houston Rickets- Rodney McCray (l)

1987:
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (w)
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (l)

1988:
LA LAkers- Byron Scott (w)
Detroit Pistons- Joe Dumars (l)

1989:
Detroit Pistons- Joe Dumars (w) (mvp)
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (l)

1990:
Detroit Pistons- Joe Dumars (w)
Portland Trailblazers- Clyde Drexler (l)

1991:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (l)

1992:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
Portland Trailblazers- Clyde Drexler (l)

1993:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
Phoenix Suns- Dan Majerle (l)

1994:
Houston Rockets- Vernon Maxwell (w)
NY Knicks- John Starks (l)

1995:
Houston Rockets- Clyde Drexler (w)
Orlando Magic- Nick Anderson (l)

1996:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
Seattle Supersonics- Hersey Hawkins (l)

1997:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
Utah Jazz- Jeff Hornacek (l)

1998:
Chicago Bulls- Michael Jordan (w) (mvp)
Utah Jazz- Jeff Hornacek (l)

1999:
San Antonio Spurs- Mario Elie (w)
NY Knicks- Allan Houston (l)

2000:
LA Lakers- Kobe Bryant (w)
Indiana Pacers- Reggie Miller (l)

2001:
LA Lakers- Kobe Bryant (w)
Philadelphia 76ers- Allen Iverson (l)

2002:
LA Lakers- Kobe Bryant (w)
NJ Nets- Kerry Kittles (l)

2003:
San Antonio Spurs- Stephen Jackson (w)
NJ Nets- Kerry Kittles (l)

2004:
Detroit Pistons- Richard Hamilton (w)
LA Lakers- Kobe Bryant (l)

Diesel
05-18-2005, 02:17 PM
[QUOTE=Mushmouth]He is good enough


QUOTE]


I don't know about that. He is way to inconsistant to be counted on especially in the eastern conference where he has to go up against some tremendous scorers.Pierce, Carter, Wade,Hughes, Hamilton to name a few. I know some of them are more of swing man then true 2 guards but these are guys capable of dominating the perimeter in any given game and we just don't have that. We rely to much in our inside game even with Artest in our lineup. We have nobody on this team who can take a game over from the perimeter on a consistant basis. I think come playoff time thats important to have considering how teams usually up there defense especially in the interior where teams pack it in more and there are no easy inside layups or dunks.

I like jackson off the bench, he provides energy, defense, its just I don't know yet if we can rely on him on a nightly basis as our starting two guard come playoff time.

RWB
05-18-2005, 02:21 PM
Stat, thanks for humoring me. What you posted actually does help considering the number of John Starks, Mario Elie, and Alan Houston's in that list. So in other words you would agree the Pacers future does look bright even if SJAX is our 2?

Mushmouth
05-18-2005, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=Mushmouth]He is good enough


QUOTE]


I don't know about that. He is way to inconsistant to be counted on especially in the eastern conference where he has to go up against some tremendous scorers.Pierce, Carter, Wade,Hughes, Hamilton to name a few. I know some of them are more of swing man then true 2 guards but these are guys capable of dominating the perimeter in any given game and we just don't have that. We rely to much in our inside game even with Artest in our lineup. We have nobody on this team who can take a game over from the perimeter on a consistant basis. I think come playoff time thats important to have considering how teams usually up there defense especially in the interior where teams pack it in more and there are no easy inside layups or dunks.

I like jackson off the bench, he provides energy, defense, its just I don't know yet if we can rely on him on a nightly basis as our starting two guard come playoff time.

Well, he's the only guy we've been able to count on this series, and he has a ring as a starting 2 guard, so I'm not sure you can back that up with any real facts.

We never won with Reggie, I'm more than happy to move the majority of the scoring to Ron and JO and take our chances with a streaky, but experienced and tough 2 guard. Jax can also go to the rim, which we've lacked at the 2 for years and years, even off the bench.

Hicks
05-18-2005, 02:24 PM
You just listed Magic Johnson as a SG...

Kstat
05-18-2005, 02:26 PM
You just listed Magic Johnson as a SG...

His rookie year, he played SG, and Norm Nixon was the PG.

Mushmouth
05-18-2005, 02:38 PM
His rookie year, he played SG, and Norm Nixon was the PG.

Almost positive that Magic was playing the point on offense by the playoffs (along with Center that one game) - They moved Nixon to SG.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 02:42 PM
Almost positive that Magic was playing the point on offense by the playoffs (along with Center that one game) - They moved Nixon to SG.

They moved Magic all over the place because of injuries to Nixon and Kareem. they won the title playing him at CENTER. Doesn't mean I'm going to list him there.

He was the SG for %95 of their season.

Mushmouth
05-18-2005, 02:44 PM
They moved Magic all over the place because of injuries to Nixon and Kareem. they won the title playing him at CENTER. Doesn't mean I'm going to list him there.

He was the SG for %95 of their season.

Just not the case.

They moved Magic to point during the year, and he was solidly their starting Point Guard by the playoffs.

Google help:



The Magic Bird Show
copyright (c) 1996 Don Sibrel

The NBA of the 1980s belonged to two teams: the Los Angeles
Lakers and the Boston Celtics. The nine years, from 1980 through
1988, these two teams won eight championships. Both Teams had a
number of Hall-of-Fame players, but it was Magic Johnson and
Larry Bird that highlighted their team's greatness. When they
both entered the NBA in 1979, their teams immediately became
contenders for the title for the next nine years. No other time
in NBA history have two teams dominated the way they did in one
decade.

Earvin "Magic" Johnson was probably the finest all-round
talent to ever play the game. He could just do more things
better than anyone. This best ever point guard played
brilliantly in the center position in the NBA finals of 1980.

Larry Bird was probably the best forward to every play the
game. He was easily the best combination passer and shooter at
the forward position, and maybe at any position. He was also a
good rebounder who averaged over 10 rebounds a game in each of
his first six seasons. While not an outstanding individual
defensive player, he was a great team defender who lead his
team in steals in each of these nine years.

The 23 year old Bird was an immediate superstar his first
season when he lead his team in minutes played, scoring,
rebounds, and steals. Magic, three years younger, had a harder
time adjusting to NBA basketball. He was then a great player,
but not quit the player that Bird was the first few seasons.
Part of the problem was that L.A., already had a fine point guard
in Norm Nixon. They would both start as guards with Nixon
playing shooting guard. But both liked to control the ball.

It took Magic several years to develop a deadly outside shot.
When he did, and after Nixon was traded, Johnson was probably a
better all-round player than Bird.

Any time during these years when LA played Boston there was
tremendous fan enthusiasm. They were the best two teams having
the best two team players. Competition was fierce, and no one
team dominated the other. LA won five titles to Boston's three,
but the 1985-86 Celtic team may the been the best of them all.</pre>

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 03:24 PM
I swear I remember that Magic was basically the Lakers' PG from the day he entered the league.

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 03:27 PM
Do Shooting Guards win championships?

I think just about every NBA champion has had a shooting guard. So, yes!

:smirk: :D

RWB
05-18-2005, 03:30 PM
I think just about every NBA champion has had a shooting guard. So, yes!

:smirk: :D

Damn. :laugh:

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 03:32 PM
Damn. :laugh:


Of course, just about every team that lost in The Finals also had a SG, so maybe my initial conclusion was premature. :whoknows:

Since86
05-18-2005, 03:34 PM
Is this really taking place? Questioning whether or not SJax can be the Pacers starting SG if we want to win a championship. HE'S THE ONLY ONE WITH A STINKING RING!!!!

Mr. Pink
05-18-2005, 03:35 PM
I think just about every NBA champion has had a shooting guard. So, yes!

:smirk: :D


Every NBA Champion team has had fans too...

So I guess...umm...We kick a$$ too!

RWB
05-18-2005, 03:37 PM
HE'S THE ONLY ONE WITH A STINKING RING!!!!

And following in the great foot steps of Jay. How do you know what that ring smells like? ;)

Since86
05-18-2005, 03:44 PM
Because I've stood five feet away from it..... :D

Cactus Jax
05-18-2005, 04:10 PM
1984:
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (l)
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (l)


Some sort of inner hatred for Ainge... :devil:

DisplacedKnick
05-18-2005, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE=Kstat]
1984:
Boston Celtics- Danny Ainge (l)
LA Lakers- Byron Scott (l)
[QUOTE]

Some sort of inner hatred for Ainge... :devil:

He wouldn't be the only one ...

Kstat
05-18-2005, 04:22 PM
Some sort of inner hatred for Ainge... :devil:

Yeah, I did do that purposefully. Ainge has the honor of being the first player I ever booed.

And I was only 5 years old.

Anthem
05-18-2005, 06:57 PM
I don't know about that. He is way to inconsistant to be counted on especially in the eastern conference where he has to go up against some tremendous scorers.

Jackson's been our most consistent player on both sides of the court for the entire postseason. If he's too inconsistent, then Jay's right and it's time to get 15 new guys.

3Ball
05-18-2005, 07:03 PM
Well, SG is 20% of of your team, but he doesn't have to account for 20% of your scoring or be the best defender on your team for it to be successful. Teams have won championships with all kinds of combinations of stars and roll players. That said, championship teams rarely have gaping holes, and SJ is not a gaping hole.

indytoad
05-18-2005, 07:08 PM
HE'S THE ONLY ONE WITH A STINKING RING!!!!

Yeah, well, so does Darko.

He wouldn't have had that ring if it wasn't for Duncan. He wasn't exactly an irreplacable part of that team.

IndyToad
Watch out for volcanoes

Since86
05-19-2005, 10:05 AM
Yeah, well, so does Darko.

He wouldn't have had that ring if it wasn't for Duncan. He wasn't exactly an irreplacable part of that team.

IndyToad
Watch out for volcanoes

He was their starting SG. I don't know about you, but I believe a starting position is pretty important.

Maybe we should of traded for Darko, since their just about equal in your mind. :rolleyes:

A-Train
05-19-2005, 11:07 AM
Is this really taking place? Questioning whether or not SJax can be the Pacers starting SG if we want to win a championship. HE'S THE ONLY ONE WITH A STINKING RING!!!!

I know.... how silly is this question when you consider he's already won a championship as a starting SG?

:shakehead

Diesel
05-19-2005, 02:57 PM
Jackson's been our most consistent player on both sides of the court for the entire postseason. If he's too inconsistent, then Jay's right and it's time to get 15 new guys.

theres the problem right there, Your not going to go very far where our most consistant player shoots 40 % from the floor and has questionable shot selection.

DisplacedKnick
05-19-2005, 03:10 PM
theres the problem right there, Your not going to go very far where our most consistant player shoots 40 % from the floor and has questionable shot selection.

Uh, when it comes to shot selection I can remember both Tinsley and Reggie missing several 3's in a row and Jermaine taking a bunch of 20-footers.

Don't recall much from Jax this series where I screamed NO! when he let a shot go.

Anthem
05-19-2005, 05:20 PM
Don't recall much from Jax this series where I screamed NO! when he let a shot go.

Thank you.

I haven't had a problem with hardly any of Jax's shots (in the playoffs).