View Full Version : Perspective

05-18-2005, 04:48 AM
This is a thread from RATS. It's a good read, shout-out to foretaz.


<!--StartFragment --> let me get this straight...

we are playing the defending champs in the second round of the playoffs...

we have been thru what we have been thru this season...we have the suspensions and injuries that we do....

detroit just won game 5 on their home floor to take a 3-2 lead in the series....

and for that....we should blow up the team....fire the coach...fire bird...fire donnie...start the bench....oh, and quite possibly the best one-bring back jalen rose....

try this on for size...nov. 22 i tell u we will be down 3-2 to the pistons in the second round coming back to conseco....what would u say????

when jo went down with his injury and tins was out and i told u we would be 3-2 down to detroit in the second round and coming back to conseco for game 6....what would u say???

after game 1 against boston...if i told u we would be 3-2 down to the pistons and coming back home for game 6....what would u say...

at the start of this series if i told u we would be coming back home for game 6 down 3-2...what would u say?????

after game 1 of this series...if i told u we would be coming back home for game 6 down 3-2....what would u say....

remember something...about this time last year we were going back to detroit down 3-2....

seriously.....get a grip....

05-18-2005, 08:34 AM
Excellent points

05-18-2005, 11:13 AM
Excellent points

And he's probably getting ripped apart on RATS.

05-18-2005, 11:36 AM
And he's probably getting ripped apart on RATS.

Well, you gotta admit, he should write out through instead of using thru. And using capital letters when appropriate might help.

05-18-2005, 11:50 AM
I was just about to post this very same perception.

It seems like the deeper into the playoffs we go, the higher our expectations become.

We were all extremely excited to just <i><b>be</b></i> in the playoffs, much less have a chance to win.

Then we get some good luck in that JO seems to be able to play through the shoulder problem (are we spoiled? Do we think JO should be Dale, even though Dale was not required to be an offensive option after his separation?), and Tinsley comes back after being on the bench ... and suddenly we're supposed to be the champs.

Suppose we come back and beat the Pistons somehow and get swept by the Heat because Shaq-hole just runs us over while Wade bangs them from outside. Does that suddenly make us a lottery team?

Yeah, we're frustrated because we got whipped like a red-headed stepchild. But, like it or not, we're still missing our #2 offensive option (golly - think that's maybe where the offense went?)

I stand by my previous post that we are just wiped out after this amazing run. There are those who say that there is no such thing as "playing over your head" (was that Barkley or Dr. Jack?), that the potential needs to be there or you'll never play that way. I disagree - just as adrenaline can give someone seemingly super strength in times of crisis, stepping up to face major adversity does the same. But, sooner or later, you run out of adrenaline and fatigue sets in. Don't believe it? Then why did the team do so well right after 11/19 and yet still fall below .500 later on?

Second-guess keeping Artest, second-guess Rick's ability to coach (ok, tell me really, who in the heck was making any shots that he ignored? How was he supposed to clear out Ben and Sheed in the paint without having some other option to prevent them from going straight there?), second-guess JO's softness (yeah, he isn't Dale, but who is?), but don't forget that we weren't even supposed to be here - yet here we are.

I submit that shows <i><b>something</b></i>

05-18-2005, 11:53 AM
Well, you gotta admit, he should write out through instead of using thru. And using capital letters when appropriate might help.

When they run out of things to criticize they complain that he uses purple colored letters. Don't laugh. I'm serious.

05-18-2005, 11:59 AM
I've slept on it and my perspective really hasn't changed. We are coming back to Conseco 'only' down 3-2 in spite of JO, not because of him. We made the playoffs in spite of him, not because of him. As a matter of fact he was fast leading us to a 9th or 10th seed (IOW-Out of the playoffs) until we got Dale and an injury sidelined JO where he could do no more damage.

He is being paid the be this team's leader and face of the franchise and spent most of the season shrinking from that as fast as he could.... even before the injury. I'm really starting to see his 55 point game as the beginning of the end, not a glimpse of his greatness.

If someone wants to argue that Carlisle is setting him up to fail when it counts the most then I guess we have some serious problems.


05-18-2005, 12:43 PM
Bball -

I take exception to that. I totally agree with your analysis that quite often we have performed better without JO on the floor. I've actually said as much.

But the question I ask is "Is it the player (JO) and his performance that is flawed, or is it the game plan that is being deployed due to the availability of the player?"

I take exception because, even though I'm not a particular fan of JO, I believe it is the game plan being deployed, and not JO himself.

JO plays the post, and rarely vacates it. That isn't JO, it's the plan. Unfortunately, that lack of motion also leads to congestion, which oftentimes throws the motion offense that would be played without JO completely out the window.

I believe a primary complaint you would have about a lineup that includes JO is that the offense does not consist of as much motion. And I would totally agree with that statement.

But again, JO is one hell of a player. In fact, he's one of the most coveted players in the league. Unless an exceptional player is a cancer, you don't scrap the player. As a GM and a coach, you find a way to make it work. So although I wouldn't say that Carlisle is setting JO up for failure, I don't believe that our offense against the Pistons is maximizing our chances for success, either.

Thus far, with everything we've been through this year, I don't really believe we have found a way to make it work. At least not on a consistent basis.

There are a lot of folks who would hate me for saying it, but what this team really misses is Ron Artest. It's pieces were assembled with Ron being a major component.

Without Artest, JO can be single-covered by the Pistons, with help coming whenever needed. After all, there are few other front-court players on the court for us right now that can make the opponent pay for leaving a man and double-teaming JO when needed.

With Artest, we actually have two players capable of playing in the post in the lineup at the same time that oftentime require double-teaming. You double team JO, and Artest's physical strength alone enables him to go to the rim because he overpowers any other SF in the league in the post. You double team Artest, and it is a guarantee that JO cannot be quickly double-teamed by the opponent as he receives the quick pass from Artest.

I don't blame JO that the offense is set up with him as a focal point getting a lot of shots each game. I blame the coach for not coming up with better plans to produce better shots for JO than fade-away jumpers.

In fact, I don't really blame any of the palyers. Overlooking the fact that TInsley can sometimes be a stubborn knucklehead, I think this team has come together quite nicely, considering all that it has been through.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem that I see is what a few others mentioned as we approached the playoffs. We were essentially already playing playoff basketball the last 4-6 weeks of the season. When the playoffs hit, we had nothing, and I mean NOTHING, in reserve. We had no overdrive, nor did we have an ace-in-the-hole to go to.

The Pistons, on the other hand, have been able to crank it up a notch from time to time. And worse than that, they had that damned ace-in-the-hole. This series was turned totally upside down when somebody slipped Brown a smart pill and he started playing Arroyo. We have had absolutely no answer for him. He has done an excellent job creating shots, mostly layins and dunks, for the Pistons big men. And for a player that has been knocked for his defense, Arroyo has totally solved our X-factor, which was Tinsley in Games 2 and 3.

I find it hard to believe that the other 11 players will allow Reggie to lose his last game at home. But I don't hold out much hope being able to beat Detroit 2 in a row.

05-18-2005, 12:47 PM
I frequently agree with bball, but he's found a new layer of bitterness - and its not directed at Bender - and I'm still not sure how to respond.

Beast, overall, what do you think of Rick?

05-18-2005, 12:48 PM
He is absolutly 100% right.

05-18-2005, 01:02 PM
I frequently agree with bball, but he's found a new layer of bitterness - and its not directed at Bender - and I'm still not sure how to respond.

Beast, overall, what do you think of Rick?

I'm ready to hear someone convince me that JO is just being the good soldier and the problem is elsewhere (coaching flaw(s), lack of Brad Mil....errrr I won't go there right now ;) )


05-18-2005, 01:05 PM
I'm ready to hear someone convince me that JO is just being the good soldier and the problem is elsewhere (coaching flaw(s), lack of Brad Mil....errrr I won't go there right now ;) )


Yeah, well I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that Ron is reliable.

Its seems like a good idea to start down these roads (except for Bender Boulevard, but that's a traffic jam), but it gets lonely waiting for some real proof.


05-18-2005, 01:05 PM
I frequently agree with bball, but he's found a new layer of bitterness - and its not directed at Bender - and I'm still not sure how to respond.

Beast, overall, what do you think of Rick?I think he is an excellent coach who found himself in a no-win situation.

He had an offense that was working well enough without JO to secure a 6th by winning something like 2/3 of its final 20 games.

He hoped that JO would be able to play in the playoffs, but really had no assurances. Suddenly JO is available, and without the experience of having played within the new offense, you just knew that the two styles would not merge.

I don't think the Pacers were well prepared and had not found the best ways to incorporate JO into the new offense. Consequently, when JO is on the floor, we still see a lot of the old "dump it in to JO" offense. And against the Pistons and without Artest, it's simply not working. But then again, do you spend a great deal of time devising plays for a player that you don't even know if you are going to have, or do you simply go with the plays you've already got?

I think there probably is a bit of a physhe problem for JO being defended by Sheed, but I think it could have been overcome had we devised plans that had JO working off of low screens set by Dale or Jeff as opposed to JO being thrown on one side of the post all on his own, trying to chicken-fight one of the Wallaces for position. <sorry for the long-*** sentence.>

I think Artest would have made a big difference. But in looking at next season, I also wonder what we will do to compensate for what I believe is a big Piston advantage in the backcourt.

05-18-2005, 01:14 PM
Yeah, well I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that Ron is reliable.
Sorry, that isn't possible. Buck and I can spew our opinions, but unfortunately when Artest was ejected from the womb he came with no warranties.

I look at Artest a lot like the abortion issue. Over a period of time, your opinion can switch to either side of the issue. It's not about right or wrong, really. It's just about personal beliefs and what one hopes for.

05-20-2005, 05:27 AM
you know...a couple guys have been on me to come to this site, as ive been toiling on the rats...ive lurked off and on for a while....then a couple days ago hardrive pms me and says to get over here where u belong....so i said what the heck....so i register...seems it can take a wee bit of time till they allow u to post, its been nearly 2 days....

funny thing was, after i registered, i start reading some posts and low and behold heres my post from rats....well that was a bit bizarre....just make sure any royalties due are forwarded to the right paypal account ;)

yes...its true...i typically post in purple...why does a middle aged guy post in purple if he aint gay??...simple, i just like it...;)....it seems to bother a couple over at rats...sorry if thats the case...though frankly i dont get it...theres a whole plethora of colors to choose from, why use the same as everyone else...;) seems u have alot more individualism going on here, so i dont anticipate too much grief where my font is concerned...id prefer we focus on content anyway....

unfortunately, the situation is a bit different than it was when i first tried to register....now we have lost the series...and well....probably most of us are actually feeling even more pain with the loss of reggie.....at least its like rubbing salt into the wound, after losing to the pistons....

but for some reason the loss to the pistons doesnt seem to hurt as bad....maybe its because deep down i knew it was coming, whether id admit that or not....and probably because its just so damn difficult to not smile and be proud of what this team has accomplished after all its been thru....

the loss of reggie, on the other hand, well that really hurts...stop and think about how many relationships that we have that last 18 years....rarely are people married that long...people dont stay at the same job that long...people stay family that long, but only because they really dont have a choice..;)...but with reggie, its been one wild and crazy ride, always wondering what excitement was around the corner....to say he will be missed, well , that would definitely qualify as the understatement of the year....

and yet...im glad he got the chance to go out the way he did....it was only fitting he had a game like he did...instead of going out as the role player, he went out in typical reggie style-the gunslinger from hollywood turned hoosier hero rippin the cords from everywhere on the floor trying to will his team to a victory against all odds....ill enjoy that memory and the many others hes provided over his storied career...

ahh..yes..perpsective...despite it being a bittersweet nite...i cant help but be excited about the future....and its very easy to wonder what comes next...if u cant get excited about jo, artest, and jax being on the floor together, well....u must not be much of a visionary....but it certainly bodes for a very promising upcoming year...with all the experience that many of next years bench players got this year, our depth and defense should prove second to none next year....seeing how some of these young guys mature and improve will be quite interesting....if we are able to resign jj, just how good does he get?? or was it just an aberration???

one things for certain....reggie has spoiled us with so many trips to the postseason....the days where we never went to the playoffs seem only like distant bad dreams....and it certainly appears we will continue to be in the title chase for many years to come.....lets only hope that as a team they are able to provide us with as many exciting memories as reggie did on his own....and maybe provide us with the only thing that reggie couldnt, no matter how he tried.....an NBA title...

Pacers--06 Champs?....u gotta believe

05-20-2005, 05:35 AM
Welcome aboard.

That was one hell of a first post. Actually I've seen you over on the star board quite a bit & I know you will be a welcome member to our family.

We don't descriminate based on font color ;) . Now lack of bolding in your post on the other hand...... :)

Either way, welcome aboard.

BTW, just in case you didn't know the guy who posted your post is none other than DJ Paul B from the fieldhouse. You should feel proud he picked your out to post.

05-20-2005, 05:55 AM
great first post and also a great first quote :)

welcome Taz, glad you post here.

Los Angeles
05-20-2005, 06:03 AM
I don't think it will be necessary to post over these next few days if people keep posting what I'm feeling.

Welcome Taz.

05-20-2005, 06:09 AM
now i know how reggie felt 18 years ago...when he walked thru the tunnel at MSA for the first time....

many thx for the welcome....and i guess thanks to pb as well...maybe he likes purple??? ;)

05-20-2005, 10:39 AM
Great post with some great analogies.

05-20-2005, 10:47 AM

05-21-2005, 12:21 PM
I will discriminate based on font color, I can't read it, so I won't be reading your posts