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Peck
05-18-2005, 02:45 AM
questions.

1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

2. How do we solve the problem of rebounding? Particularly how do we solve the fact that they had 22 offensive rebounds & we had 11?

*Uncle Buck & myself have a major disagreement over this issue but in defense of my case, I present last night. The Detroit guards & S.F. accounted for 10 of thier offensive rebounds our entire team had 11 of which our small forward & guards grabbed 1 if you count James Jones as the S.F. when he was in (which I think he was) I just do not see how you possibly can compete when you are beaten on the boards like this & I'm sorry I don't care how good of a rebounder you have on your team one player is not going to outboard 3 or 4 going to the glass.

Our defense hasn't been outstanding but IMO, it is not the reason we have lost the last two games. It is our putred lack of scoring & rebounding that has killed us.

Brian
05-18-2005, 02:47 AM
1.Start Croshere
2.Start Foster

Peck
05-18-2005, 02:49 AM
1.Start Croshere
2.Start Foster


So your saying bench Dale & Jermaine?

I'm not disagreeing with you but would you elaborate a little. The reason I'm asking is because I was about to respond to Bball about the 3/25 game & Croshere was a part of that so I'm interested in your theory.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 02:57 AM
the drawback of putting foster in there is that Rasheed will beat him up in the post. He's too tall and long for foster to bother his post moves. Thats why Carlisle refuses to start him.

the same thing goes for Croshere, who has next to no chance of keeping ben wallace off the glass.

If you think JO has problems against sheed and ben, try throwing those two guys out there in his place.

Brian
05-18-2005, 03:06 AM
So your saying bench Dale & Jermaine?

I'm not disagreeing with you but would you elaborate a little. The reason I'm asking is because I was about to respond to Bball about the 3/25 game & Croshere was a part of that so I'm interested in your theory.



Well just with JO in obvious pain,And with croshere playing so little minutes as of lately,I think that AC would be a big energy burst in the starting lineup.
And then you can have JO come off the bench which would help alot,With a couple reasons being that if AC doesnt do any good,He'll pick up a couple fouls that JO would usally get.And JO could get sparked by not starting.


And with starting Foster over Davis,I just thought that having another energy player start next to AC would be good.Try to get out and run to start the game,maybe wear down the pistons a little bit.

Skaut_Ech
05-18-2005, 03:13 AM
questions.

1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

2. How do we solve the problem of rebounding? Particularly how do we solve the fact that they had 22 offensive rebounds & we had 11?

*Uncle Buck & myself have a major disagreement over this issue but in defense of my case, I present last night. The Detroit guards & S.F. accounted for 10 of thier offensive rebounds our entire team had 11 of which our small forward & guards grabbed 1 if you count James Jones as the S.F. when he was in (which I think he was) I just do not see how you possibly can compete when you are beaten on the boards like this & I'm sorry I don't care how good of a rebounder you have on your team one player is not going to outboard 3 or 4 going to the glass.

Our defense hasn't been outstanding but IMO, it is not the reason we have lost the last two games. It is our putred lack of scoring & rebounding that has killed us.

I personally think both of those are easy questions.

1. No. More. Isolations. Our offense consisted of JO trying to take his man in the low post while the rest of our guys basically stood there. Pistons D simply sat in the paint and waited on him. SJ did the same thing. I felt like I was watching a poor man's version of the Rockets. Yeah, shots weren't falling, but Detriot played a zone nearly all game. I don't care what the papers or coaches say to the contrary. The only way you break down a zone is penetration. How many times did Steve Jax or JO drive into a group of defenders. (To that end, I think Det played an illegal D most of the game. Next game watch how they have a guy simply standing in the paint who periodically points towards a player of ours as if "that's my man') But I digress.)

Our offense needs to play as close as it can to a motion offense. Penetrate and kick. Repeat. No roster moves.

2. Once again, I think the solution is easy. Well on paper it is. First...block out. Simplistic, I know, but how many tip dunks did they get by jumping in the holes we left around the basket? We stood there with our arms down waiting for the ball. They jumped in, arms high and went after it.

Second, our D needs to resemble theirs more. We need to pack it into the paint. They were getting rebounds due to sheer numbers in the paint. If we do that on D, it's gonna cut down on our half court offense, not giving them a chance to pack it in on us. On offense, if we have guys in motion, like I mentioned above, the defenders are going to have to react, not just stand there and wait for JO to make, or not make, his low post move. Make THEM move on D and the basket area clears up a bit for us to be around the goal when the ball goes up.

Well, that's my sleepy-headed thinking.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:14 AM
I think that AC would be a big energy burst in the starting lineup.

Cause, when I think Austin croshere, I think: "energizer bunny".....


if AC doesnt do any good,He'll pick up a couple fouls that JO would usally get.

....after giving up a few offensive rebounds that JO would usually get......


And JO could get sparked by not starting.

The best way to motivate your best post player is to tell him he's less deserving than austin croshere?


And with starting Foster over Davis,I just thought that having another energy player start next to AC would be good.Try to get out and run to start the game,maybe wear down the pistons a little bit.

Again, to make this clear: you want to start Croshere and Foster....against Ben and Rasheed Wallace?

Get out and run? Foster and Croshere?

Bball
05-18-2005, 03:16 AM
questions.

1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

Single change? No more 'throw it into JO' offense. Instruct JO he is not to shoot and he is to play decoy. Any time the ball comes into him, except for a dunk, it is to go right back out until he's told differently.

Or how about pick and roll with JO and see if he can get any open shots he can hit that way.

But in any case, when it's not working... it's not working...

Is leaving JO in Detroit an option? ;)

(Note: Yes, I am still frustrated)



2. How do we solve the problem of rebounding? Particularly how do we solve the fact that they had 22 offensive rebounds & we had 11?

Blocking out comes to mind. Fundamental basketball. Arguably it is not the offensive rebounds we don't get as much as the offensive rebounds they do get.

Of course if we'd run an offense that has some chance of success then maybe we'd see some spacing, some open shots in rhythm, and no need for an offensive rebound (because our shots would be dropping). If we're playing ISO ball and JO is clanking fadeaways then who is going to get the rebound anyway? ...Even if we did crash the boards...




*Uncle Buck & myself have a major disagreement over this issue but in defense of my case, I present last night. The Detroit guards & S.F. accounted for 10 of thier offensive rebounds our entire team had 11 of which our small forward & guards grabbed 1 if you count James Jones as the S.F. when he was in (which I think he was) I just do not see how you possibly can compete when you are beaten on the boards like this & I'm sorry I don't care how good of a rebounder you have on your team one player is not going to outboard 3 or 4 going to the glass.

Our defense hasn't been outstanding but IMO, it is not the reason we have lost the last two games. It is our putred lack of scoring & rebounding that has killed us.

At some point a glaring weakness has to be acknowledged and an alternate plan tried, even if you do fear it creates a weakness elsewhere, or even if it goes against your system.

So-
A: No more JO Ego Ball
B: Block Out Block Out Block Out
C: Motion and spacing on offense
D: Start crashing the brds if the offense is struggling

-Bball

Skaut_Ech
05-18-2005, 03:18 AM
Single change? No more 'throw it into JO' offense. Instruct JO he is not to shoot and he is to play decoy. Any time the ball comes into him, except for a dunk, it is to go right back out until he's told differently.

Or how about pick and roll with JO and see if he can get any open shots he can hit that way.

But in any case, when it's not working... it's not working...

Is leaving JO in Detroit an option? ;)

(Note: Yes, I am still frustrated)



Blocking out comes to mind. Fundamental basketball. Arguably it is not the offensive rebounds we don't get as much as the offensive rebounds they do get.

Of course if we'd run an offense that has some chance of success then maybe we'd see some spacing, some open shots in rhythm, and no need for an offensive rebound (because our shots would be dropping). If we're playing ISO ball and JO is clanking fadeaways then who is going to get the rebound anyway? ...Even if we did crash the boards...



At some point a glaring weakness has to be acknowledged and an alternate plan tried, even if you do fear it creates a weakness elsewhere, or even if it goes against your system.

So-
A: No more JO Ego Ball
B: Block Out Block Out Block Out
C: Motion and spacing on offense
D: Start crashing the brds if the offense is struggling

-Bball

I think we both just said the exact same thing. :):cool:

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:18 AM
2. Once again, I think the solution is easy. Well on paper it is. First...block out. Simplistic, I know, but how many tip dunks did they get by jumping in the holes we left around the basket? We stood there with our arms down waiting for the ball. They jumped in, arms high and went after it.

Take a look at the tape:

The Pacers were getting carved up in the 2nd quarter by Arroyo on the pick and roll, so Carlisle played zone ALL 3rd QUARTER.

It actually did slow down the offense, but the drawback of a zone D is, you CANNOT box out in a zone D. That's what led to you getting pummeled on the glass in the 2nd half: ben and sheed were allowed to crash the boards all 3rd quarter, without anyone in their way.

Bball
05-18-2005, 03:21 AM
Keeping in mind I am disappointed in JO right now I'd be OK with trying Croshere and Dale starting and leaving JO on the bench. The question then becomes whether to bring in Foster or JO first... or both together?

Leaving JO on the bench totally destroys the Pistons' gameplan as they want the ball in JO's hands as much as possible I am sure. They don't fear JO, their eyes light up when we throw it into him.

Of course I say this because I am trying to figure out how to get the team to get away from JO Iso Ball. I assume if he isn't in the game it goes the way of the dodo bird.

-Bball

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:26 AM
Keeping in mind I am disappointed in JO right now I'd be OK with trying Croshere and Dale starting and leaving JO on the bench. The question then becomes whether to bring in Foster or JO first... or both together?

Leaving JO on the bench totally destroys the Pistons' gameplan as they want the ball in JO's hands as much as possible I am sure. They don't fear JO, their eyes light up when we throw it into him.

-Bball

Actually, it just makes it easier.

Do you really think the Pistons gameplan around Oneal? They pay attention to him more than any other player, but try taking him out of the game, and then what happens?

All of a sudden, more atention will be paid to reggie and Jackson than before. Its going to make it harder for them to play, not easier.

You can't just change your whole offense overnight. You need to tell your coach to change his playbook in the offseason. That kind of change is built over a month, not 2 days.

Lastly, why on earth would you want to make this team even MORE perimeter oriented than it already is?

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:28 AM
1. Hit shots. If you hit shots, you score points, build confidence and your energy level rises. Try and get out on the break more. The halfcourt ISO offense is killing us and DET has had 5 games now to figure it out. Run, make shots, and take care of the ball. Also, offensive rebounding and second chance points would be a bonus.

2. repeat after me..."BOX OUT"

B
O
X

O
U
T

I dont know how many times tonight I was yelling this. You will NOT get rebounds if you let your opponent get to the ball first. Isnt this a basketball fundamental? Dont they teach this in 4th grade? BOX OUT!!!!!!!!! Instead of going for the block EVERY time (and rarely get it), put a hand in the shooter's face, maybe even tap his chest, and BOX HIM OUT. Prevent DET from getting 22 offensive boards by BOXING OUT. (get the theme of this post yet?)

B
O
X

O
U
T

Which brings me back to point 1. If we hit more of our shots we wont need to get as many offensive boards. And if we are hitting shots, our energy level is up which will make guys play better D and may get to the D boards better.

Control the paint and you control the game. Box Out. And hit shots. Thanks for letting me rant.
:rant:
:thankyou:
:brilliant:

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:31 AM
I think we both just said the exact same thing. :):cool:
Damn, I think we all said basically the same thing:D

Brian
05-18-2005, 03:32 AM
Well All im saying is...Look at what AC has done when he has been able to start.

(Nobody can deny that)

And Look at what JO has been doing;shooting outside,not wanting to post up.


Look at what Foster has done
(20 boards one night,12 rebounds the next)


Davis hasnt done anything like that.

Stats dont lie.

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:33 AM
Take a look at the tape:

The Pacers were getting carved up in the 2nd quarter by Arroyo on the pick and roll, so Carlisle played zone ALL 3rd QUARTER.

It actually did slow down the offense, but the drawback of a zone D is, you CANNOT box out in a zone D. That's what led to you getting pummeled on the glass in the 2nd half: ben and sheed were allowed to crash the boards all 3rd quarter, without anyone in their way.
True, but the rebound onslaught started in the 2nd Q when Pacers were playing man. It just got worse when they switched to zone.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:35 AM
True, but the rebound onslaught started in the 2nd Q when Pacers were playing man. It just got worse when they switched to zone.

No, the scoring onslaught began when arroyo checked in and did his jason kidd impression. before that, you were playing us pretty well, despite giving up some boards.

We didn't start to really kill you on the glass until carlisle went to the zone to cut down our driving and passing lanes.

Brian
05-18-2005, 03:38 AM
Yea,Arroyo carved us up.

Nothing else to add to that.

He just got us in a headlock and didnt let up.

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:38 AM
kstat - I said nothing of scoring, just rebounding. But you are correct, Arroyo was unstopable tonight and when he checked in he took over.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:42 AM
Well All im saying is...Look at what AC has done when he has been able to start.

(Nobody can deny that)

what stats? Dont tell me you're referring to the 2000 finals?



And Look at what JO has been doing;shooting outside,not wanting to post up.

Um, JO goes to the basket more than any other player you had out there.....



Look at what Foster has done
(20 boards one night,12 rebounds the next)
Davis hasnt done anything like that.

.....and he's done what over the last 2 games?

Just answer me this: how do you expect to score points playing 3 on 5 on offense? Without your ONLY shotblocker in the game, what will prevent the pistons from just going right to the rim?

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:45 AM
kstat - I said nothing of scoring, just rebounding. But you are correct, Arroyo was unstopable tonight and when he checked in he took over.

Oh, I wasn't rubbing it in, I was just saying that we were winning with scoring, not rebounds in the 2nd quarter.

Bball
05-18-2005, 03:46 AM
Actually, it just makes it easier.

Do you really think the Pistons gameplan around Oneal?

Yes. He is the key to the Pacers offense and frankly can absolutely throw it out of sync if you frustrate him. JO can do more damage to it than the Piston D if the Pistons simply get it in his head.




They pay attention to him more than any other player, but try taking him out of the game, and then what happens?


We quit throwing it into JO and watching it clank off the rim?




All of a sudden, more atention will be paid to reggie and Jackson than before. Its going to make it harder for them to play, not easier.

You can't just change your whole offense overnight. You need to tell your coach to change his playbook in the offseason. That kind of change is built over a month, not 2 days.

Lastly, why on earth would you want to make this team even MORE perimeter oriented than it already is?

If this team is going to be perimeter oriented then I'd prefer it be in the flow of the game rather 'scraps' that are taken out of the flow. And it doesn't have to be 3's. And the motion would open up the interior plus get the Pistons away from the basket and (hopefully) cut down on their rebounds.

And it's not like this team doesn't have the ability to play a different offense... we've seen it. We saw it until JO came back and bogged things down.

-Bball

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:47 AM
-snip-
Without your ONLY shotblocker in the game, what will prevent the pistons from just going right to the rim?
He was in the game tonight and the Pistons were going to the rim at will
:zip:

Brian
05-18-2005, 03:48 AM
Just like you said Kstat,look at what foster has done the past 2 games.What has everyone said "why isnt foster playing more?".

And AC has "lost" his outside shot,So if you notice whenever he plays he always does the fake 20 foot shot,then drives to the basket.


And why not try it?...When we stop the pistons on the inside,the burn us on the outside,when we stop them on the outside,they burn us on the inside.

Bball
05-18-2005, 03:49 AM
Meter check....

Kstat
05-18-2005, 04:09 AM
If this team is going to be perimeter oriented then I'd prefer it be in the flow of the game rather 'scraps' that are taken out of the flow. And it doesn't have to be 3's. And the motion would open up the interior plus get the Pistons away from the basket and (hopefully) cut down on their rebounds.
-Bball

Yeah, but "in the flow" of what? Who is going to create offense for the Pacers?

How are they supposed to get good shots with only 2 real scoring threats? Thats my question.

DisplacedKnick
05-18-2005, 07:25 AM
And why not try it?...When we stop the pistons on the inside,the burn us on the outside,when we stop them on the outside,they burn us on the inside.

Foster for DD - maybe.

Croshere should not play in this series in any competitive situation.

He'll turn Rasheed into Wilt. Heck, he'll turn Ben Wallace into Karl Malone.

There is Nobody - Nada, Zip, Zilch - not a player on the Pistons AC can guard.

If JO isn't lying in a hospital bed in restraints, he starts over Croshere.

indygeezer
05-18-2005, 07:38 AM
1) I want Reggie Miller to gaurantee a win in game 6.


2) I want the rest of the team to show that they have something between their legs besides sweat.









Give this team a reason to sit up and take notice. Reggie...get yer mojo back, force the rest of the team to "care" and give em a reason to want it, becaue pride in self don't seem to be enough. Yeah, maybe the Pistons' get their dander up over it too and play harder, but at least there would be TWO teams trying out there and not just one.

brich
05-18-2005, 08:38 AM
I don't have a problem with JO starting, I think ultimately we need to get at least 15 points and 10 boards out of him in order to have a chance against the Pistons. I just wish JO would concentrate on defense and rebounding first and foremost. Secondly, I would like for him to pass out of double-teams. He is forcing things on offense. He just needs to let the game come to him. The more he gets others involved, and the greater our offensive ball movement, then the greater the chance that Jermaine will get the shot that he wants.

brichard
05-18-2005, 09:00 AM
The thing about playing Croshere is that he obviously doesn't stack up well in the defensive role. However, our guys aren't stopping offensive powers like Ben Wallace anyway, so what are you really losing? I may eat my words, but I don't see Ben going for 30 on anybody, but I guess it could happen.

The good news is that if (and this is a big if) Austin can hit some shots, he can draw some of their guys away from the basket on D. This could be a good thing with all the rebounding they are doing. And quite frankly, he can score... at times.

Sometimes you give up something to get something in a matchup. I don't believe in always reacting, sometimes you just have to give them a new look and shake things up. Starting Austin made a huge difference last year with relatively the same team, so we know it has happened in the past.

Am I sure it will work? Am I desparate? Yes.

And I agree with everything else posted above.

I think we start going outside in. Get Reggie going, get JJ going, get Fred going, get Stephen going and stop Detroit from packing it in. If they don't hit shots we are going to lose anyway, and JO just isn't getting it done right now.

owl
05-18-2005, 09:28 AM
1---Start Foster
2---Have JO only pass out of doubles and rebound and block shots.
The only shot he takes is a dunk or desparation shot with the shot clock
winding down
3---Start James Jones and Reggie off the bench. Only for this game.
IF Pacers win put Reggie back in as a starter at Detroit.
I know that this could be Reggie's last game but it would be the ultimate team
sacrifice. They need to run some offense for JJ. He is the only player
who is cool under pressure is seems and can hit a "3"
4---Have all the players go to med check and check their thyroid function.
Where did this sluggo team come from the past 2 games?


owl

DisplacedKnick
05-18-2005, 09:39 AM
The thing about playing Croshere is that he obviously doesn't stack up well in the defensive role. However, our guys aren't stopping offensive powers like Ben Wallace anyway, so what are you really losing?

Any chance of winning.

Right now you CAN win if

A) Tinsley quits playing like a dumbass
B) Someone - anyone - hits a few outside shots to soften their defense (BTW - don't think I'm saying that the asnwer to missing 4 3's in a row is to shoot more 3's but if you don't hit at least a few your chances are very small)
C) JO plays like he did in game 7 vs Boston - admits he can't be the feature offensive player right now and does other things

But you don't concede the game before it starts by starting AJ or AC - even on their good nights those two can't be effective vs that team. You have to hope (was gonna say trust, decided against it) that Tinsley and JO come out with their A game. That's what you need to win. Or Reggie flashing back 10 years - or even to games 2&3 of the Boston series.

I guess I could have just said, "Go with what brung ya" and this would've been shorter.

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 09:41 AM
Yeah, but "in the flow" of what? Who is going to create offense for the Pacers?

How are they supposed to get good shots with only 2 real scoring threats? Thats my question.


I agree with Kstat 100% on this.

Passing the ball around the perimeter against the Pistions is futule. In order to compete agaisnt the Pistons defense you need penetration to draw defenders and then you'll have to pass back out when the defense rotates, but then it comes down to "making shots" again.

Since when it getting the ball into J.O. "isolation basketball" The plan is fine, the problem is J.O can't score one-on-one against Sheed

To the rebounding question. Peck, the problem is not the lack of offensive rebounding by the Pacers. The problem is defensive rebounding. J.O need to block out and Jax better not leak out anymore

RWB
05-18-2005, 09:41 AM
1)
Give this team a reason to sit up and take notice. Reggie...get yer mojo back, force the rest of the team to "care" and give em a reason to want it, becaue pride in self don't seem to be enough. Yeah, maybe the Pistons' get their dander up over it too and play harder, but at least there would be TWO teams trying out there and not just one.

Yeah Geez, is does seem they are laying down.

BENCH...Our's is better then let's use it. What I'm saying is RC needs to tell each player while you're out there he want's every ounce of energy used. No saving it for the 2nd half, the next quarter, or whatever.

Tell Jermaine, give it all son I don't care if you're completely pooped after 4 minutes into the 1st quarter. We'll bring someone in to spell you. I want Pollard to come in and bang the living hell out of the Wallace boys. Use every damn foul you got Scot don't worry about it. When their legs get tired at the end of the ball game from you pounding on them I'll give you a game ball for wearing them out. It is time to lean on them with our 11 to their 8 since Brown doesn't like to use that many from his bench. There is no question Detroit's starters have us and will finish the job if we don't make them worn out near the end of the ballgame....RC has to use the quantity because our quality doesn't match.

I want the blood bath Reggie was talking about.

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 09:59 AM
questions.

1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

No 3-point attempts (and that includes Reggie). Interior screens for JO to make some 'quick-hit' moves - no Iso's. Taking advantage of the mid-range jumper when its available. More screens (and off-the-ball activity) for Reggie and SJax. Players must find and move to the seams when Tinsley penetrates not camp out at the three-point line.


2. How do we solve the problem of rebounding? Particularly how do we solve the fact that they had 22 offensive rebounds & we had 11?

Our 11 ORs is a fine number. Hell, DD and Foster usually waste them all anyway so it doesn't matter.

The problem is Detroit's 22. So if I were coaching, everytime a player misses a box-out, he gets pulled. This desparation reminds me of the depression-era construction worker. According to my history class, you worked until you bent a nail. Then you got paid for your time and you went to the back of the line. When DD misses a blockout, put in Foster. When JO misses a blockout, put in Pollard. When Foster misses a blockout, put in Croshere. When Croshere misses a blockout, put JO back in in, etc.

I'm not worried about continuity. Sticking with these guys has resulted in two convincing losses which had as much to do with our 'not playing our game' as Detroit's play. I think the lack of boxouts is magnified because these guys are out of gas. So as soon as they show that they're too tired to do the dirty work, get fresh legs in the game.

If they're truly running on fumes, then as Kenny Smith said last night, our only legit hope is that Reggie brings us a HUGE fourth quarter.

But even so, I fear that's just prolonging the inevitable.

Grant
05-18-2005, 09:59 AM
The good news is that if (and this is a big if) Austin can hit some shots, he can draw some of their guys away from the basket on D. This could be a good thing with all the rebounding they are doing. And quite frankly, he can score... at times.

-Snip-

Am I sure it will work? Am I desparate? Yes.


You would have to have Croshere guard Ben, which might work, if he can keep him outside the no charge zone. He would get murdered on the boards...

Foster would have to stick with Rasheed. He would balance the rebounding and would probably play him defensively as well as JO does.

It would be a desperation move, but it would pull Rasheed out of the paint, and maybe give JT/FJ an opening to get inside. It would of course require AC to start draining 3's like he is a 30yr old Reggie, but we are already jacking up 3's like there is no tomorrow might as well put another shooter out there.

Chances of RC going with this are about 1 in 842 (only because he tried something similar last year). Its probably just as likely that he will go with AJ,RM,SJ,JJ,AC. Then we can shoot 81 3ptrs. That will neutralize that frontline advantage they have :rolleyes:

Doug
05-18-2005, 10:07 AM
1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

Anybody holding the ball more than 3 seconds will be shot.

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 10:29 AM
1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

Anybody holding the ball more than 3 seconds will be shot.

YES!!!


And anybody shooting a three-pointer loses a finger.

Repeat efforts justify using a dull, rusty butter knife.

Pacerized
05-18-2005, 10:39 AM
For the rebounding issue, I think Foster needs to play at least 30 min., and Dale not much less then that. This would put both on the floor at times, but I'm fine with that. I disagree that Foster couldn't guard Sheed. He's probably the best defender we have for Sheed. You're correct in that our guards are out rebounded, but that's been a problem for us all year. When J.O. returned we were getting 20 boards out of our starting 4/5, but still getting out rebounded due to our guards. The only real answer to this limits our scoring too much, so I don't think we can fix this with a rotation change. We need to get Reggie started early in this game to set the offensive tempo. Then rotate Foster in early (maybe for Jax), and let them worry about our big front court match up. They don't respond well to high energy, and we can try to get a repeat of game 3.

grace
05-18-2005, 10:52 AM
1) I want Reggie Miller to gaurantee a win in game 6.


2) I want the rest of the team to show that they have something between their legs besides sweat.









Give this team a reason to sit up and take notice. Reggie...get yer mojo back, force the rest of the team to "care" and give em a reason to want it, becaue pride in self don't seem to be enough. Yeah, maybe the Pistons' get their dander up over it too and play harder, but at least there would be TWO teams trying out there and not just one.

I don't know what I'd change because I didn't watch last night's game. However, I would put up Geezer's post on the bulletin board. I might leave #1 off because the Reggie of today is not going to guarantee anything (except that he's really going to retire after the season). The rest of it (hopefully) will tick off the team and they'll play better.

I don't think any of it will matter.:(

BillS
05-18-2005, 12:21 PM
At the risk of being flippant ...

Rest the perimeter shooters for 5 months and try again.

Folks, we are NOT going to score more UNLESS we get some of those outside shots to fall. Without it, there simply are no easy baskets in the paint, no long rebounds, no scoring before the Detroit defense gets set up - nothing. nada. zip.

When you have the luxury on defense to concentrate on where to position yourself for a rebound rather than guarding against a shot, you get rebounds. Plain and simple.

BigMac
05-18-2005, 01:34 PM
questions.

1. What single change would you make on offense for game 6 to help solve our problems?

2. How do we solve the problem of rebounding? Particularly how do we solve the fact that they had 22 offensive rebounds & we had 11?

*Uncle Buck & myself have a major disagreement over this issue but in defense of my case, I present last night. The Detroit guards & S.F. accounted for 10 of thier offensive rebounds our entire team had 11 of which our small forward & guards grabbed 1 if you count James Jones as the S.F. when he was in (which I think he was) I just do not see how you possibly can compete when you are beaten on the boards like this & I'm sorry I don't care how good of a rebounder you have on your team one player is not going to outboard 3 or 4 going to the glass.

Our defense hasn't been outstanding but IMO, it is not the reason we have lost the last two games. It is our putred lack of scoring & rebounding that has killed us.

I think it's a simple solution but not a quick fix.

1. Change in the offense would be to create more movement. Detroit was allowed to guard guys who were stationary and the dribbler had to maneuver to get the open passing lane. Reggie can't be the only one moving without the ball. It's harder to defend a moving target than a sationary one. But that cannot be fixed overnight (or over two nights), I don't think.

2. Give a $1k bonus (though illegal) to every rebound that the Pacers get on the defensive side and $2k bonus an offensive rebound. Rebounding is an attitude coupled with skills. DD has the attitude and skills and Foster has both as well. No one else seems to have the killer instinct to rebound any more-and no one but Foster and Davis anticipates rebounds (as B.Wallace, Olajuwon, Rodman, always did). And that cannot be learned in two days. You just need players who have those traits and we don't have a lot of them.

BigMac
05-18-2005, 01:35 PM
At the risk of being flippant ...

Rest the perimeter shooters for 5 months and try again.

Folks, we are NOT going to score more UNLESS we get some of those outside shots to fall. Without it, there simply are no easy baskets in the paint, no long rebounds, no scoring before the Detroit defense gets set up - nothing. nada. zip.

When you have the luxury on defense to concentrate on where to position yourself for a rebound rather than guarding against a shot, you get rebounds. Plain and simple.

You are on it on this one. It's like a good run game opens up the passing game and vice versa. A good perimiter game opens up an inside game and vice versa. We need good shooters, not just guys who like to shoot alot.

Graywolf_59
05-18-2005, 02:05 PM
Why not start Foster-Croshere-J Squared-Reg-AJ......can't hurt anything for 2-4 minute's!Give JO-D Squared-Jac's-Tin's some incentive to come in and get ***** happening?I know it's very far fetched to start this line-up.....but something has to done to wake up this team?(I'm seeing my Dr. tomorrow morning)!LOL

PaceBalls
05-18-2005, 02:33 PM
I just wanna know what happened to the Tinsley high screen pick and roll at the top of the key that was working so well. I have hardly seen it since game 3. JO was gettin easy looks, SJ or Dale or Jeff would cut back door to crash the boards or get the easy dish.

It's like Tinsley decided he's gonna take on the whole pistons team himself, that doesnt work so they run those freakin iso plays for SJ or JO which totally suck *** vs the pistons! argh It's like just giving them the ball back.

I gotta wonder WTF Rick has been thinking. You'd think with all those timeouts someone in the coaching staff woulda said lets try that high screen/pick and roll a few times.

So ya changes for game 6, no more freakin ISOs unless it's Miller time. No more JO post game, every play for JO is a pick and roll. If he can't play that way then sit his *** down. Tinsley needs to never try to a layup when Ben Wallace and Sheed are standing in the paint waiting for him. If he is gonna take a shot he needs to shoot the floater or powerstop jumper from close range, after they run the high screen/pick n roll.

Did I mention they need to run the high screen/pick and roll constantly?

Jose Slaughter
05-18-2005, 03:12 PM
I don't know if something like this would work.

But could we start Croshere at center against Ben. Cros offensive would pull him away from the basket, especially if he can nail a couple mid range shots early. Maybe drive and get a few cheap fouls. Cro can get his fair share of boards too.

I know this could be a major mis-match but let JJ play the 4 against Sheed. He could get torched on D but it'll make Sheed work on the other end of the court. Jones is a much better shooter than anyone else we could use there.

Jackson, Miller & Tinsley fill out the starting lineup.

Let JO, Foster & Davis rotate off the bench to give the Pistons differnet looks.

I'd let AJ back up Reg & Freddie spell Tins.

We still need to hit the shots, drive & dish & crash the boards.

brichard
05-18-2005, 10:34 PM
Any chance of winning.

Right now you CAN win if

A) Tinsley quits playing like a dumbass
B) Someone - anyone - hits a few outside shots to soften their defense (BTW - don't think I'm saying that the asnwer to missing 4 3's in a row is to shoot more 3's but if you don't hit at least a few your chances are very small)
C) JO plays like he did in game 7 vs Boston - admits he can't be the feature offensive player right now and does other things

But you don't concede the game before it starts by starting AJ or AC - even on their good nights those two can't be effective vs that team. You have to hope (was gonna say trust, decided against it) that Tinsley and JO come out with their A game. That's what you need to win. Or Reggie flashing back 10 years - or even to games 2&3 of the Boston series.

I guess I could have just said, "Go with what brung ya" and this would've been shorter.

If I had not seen what a difference AC could make (last year,) I would tend to agree with you. However, against this very same team he made a huge difference. Now, what I would do is start a lineup like this:

Reggie (Hamilton)
Jax (Tayshaun)
Tins (Billups)
JO (Sheed)
Austin (Ben)

Sure Ben will kill us on the defensive glass, but I'm hoping Austin's "J" may draw him out from the basket on the offensive boards. And let's be realistic here, nobody is stopping Ben anyway. He is already murdering us with rebounds and (gulp) even scoring.

I love Dale, and I would bring him strong off the bench for a different look. But right now if he isn't limiting the effectiveness of Ben, and he isn't scoring... he becomes a liability. A non-scoring Croshere is also a bad thing, so if they both play like crap you must pick your poison. And if Austin does play bad... you have to go to plan "B." Sometimes changing the starting lineup just adds some energy to a team that is stuck in a rut.

I would rotate Pollard and Dale just to try to wear out Big Ben. The one thing we have over Detroit is depth, so we'd might as well use it to our advantage.

Suaveness
05-18-2005, 10:38 PM
We aren't changing our lineup and we shouldn't either. What we had worked fine when our players didn't have their head up their asses. All that is required is for them to start playing without being so stupid. I have never seen anyone win when they pass the ball without looking at the passing lane and done so many isolation plays. Honestly, we are just playing stupid. They need to start thinking out there, rather than just running around like chickens with their heads cut off. It isn't too difficult, they HAVE done it.

FireTheCoach
05-18-2005, 10:51 PM
Foster for DD - maybe.

Croshere should not play in this series in any competitive situation.

He'll turn Rasheed into Wilt. Heck, he'll turn Ben Wallace into Karl Malone.

There is Nobody - Nada, Zip, Zilch - not a player on the Pistons AC can guard.

If JO isn't lying in a hospital bed in restraints, he starts over Croshere.

I 100% totally agree with the above quote.

I gaurantee that Croshere has 2 fouls and at least 1 turnover before 3 minutes is gone if he started against Detroit.

SoupIsGood
05-19-2005, 12:43 AM
Here's my suggestion-

Give James some more of Reggie's minutes (a lot of them, actually, he is much better than Reg on defense) and tell him to SHOOT THE BALL when he's open.

It would also help if Dale would flash-back to 1999 Dale just once.

Arcadian
05-19-2005, 12:56 AM
YES!!!


And anybody shooting a three-pointer loses a finger.

Repeat efforts justify using a dull, rusty butter knife.

Or if we wanted something really slow and painful we could make them watch our offense set up.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-19-2005, 02:49 AM
We should just run 3 hrs straight of shooting drills before the game starts. Ive never seen a team that just completely forgets how to shoot the ball like the Pacers do every other game, especially a team thats supposed to have good shooters. Whether its a highly contested shot, or wide open, they just cant hit anything, and its never just a few players, its the entire team at once. Theres really gotta be something wrong with the way this team practices, theyve been having these sorts of games for awhile now, just not as frequently.

A few other things:
When Jermaine gets the ball he needs to make a move quick, either towards the basket, or pass it back out. Im sick of watching him hold the ball for 10 secs trying to pivot back and forth, this gives WAY too much time for the help D. When I think back to last year, what set him out from the rest of the PFs in the league and made him an MVP canidate was his quickness. I understand that his shoulder is still bothering him, but thats not the problem. Its his footwork, its completely horrible. I really think its too late to remedy this problem though, its a bad habit that hes gonna have to break.

SJax needs to start creating shots again. I remember during that last winning stretch of the season before JO came back, when Jax was playing good someone here said that SJax can get a shot whenever he wants, and I think he still can, either for him or for others. Well hes not doing that anymore. Hes just forcing horrible perimeter shots. Like Jermaine, he needs to quit holding the ball so long, and just make a quick move when he catches it. Last game he did try to get the rim a little more, which was good, but it took forever for him to make the move and then he forced the inside shot instead of creating one. I guess on his part he really might just be tired, it sure looks that way. Less whining at the refs would also be nice...

Other than that, it sure would be nice if Reggie would come off some screens for shots inside the arc again. About rebounding, it looks a lot like everyone on the team is expecting Dale, JO, or Foster to get every single rebound. So when the ball bounces out far off the rim, all our players are already looking down towards the other end of the court, leaving the rebound open for the Piston's guards. This might be a side effect of trying to run more on the transition, im not sure.

Sorry about that, I wasnt planning on writing so much, it just started to flow :)