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View Full Version : Time to Re-Resurrect the Reggie Miller Offense



waterjater
05-18-2005, 02:27 AM
With JO so banged up, its time to sit his butt down and put in the offense that carried us to all those victories late in the season.

Bring back the Reggie Miller offense. Hell, It may be his last game. Lets not sit back and watch him throw it in the post. Lets see if he can deliver one last great moment!!

Start the lineup that generated so many victories late ( I think it was Dale, Stephen, Reggie, AJ and ???)

We had the Jones boys off the bench.

Water

Bball
05-18-2005, 02:38 AM
I'm sure you'll be told this can't work. I'm sure you'll be told we can't win without JO starting and playing a big role. To win in the playoffs you have to go to JO and pound it in some will say.

At this point... I say we have nothing to lose. Let Reggie go out in a blaze of glory and let's see if the offense can get into a rhythm. We know what doesn't work so why go back to it?

And for the naysayers all I can say is:
Pacers 94
Piston 81
March 25th, 2005 at Detroit.
It was tried once and worked once.

Does anyone really think the status quo is going anywhere?

-Bball

GO!!!!!
05-18-2005, 02:52 AM
Reggie 30 shots in what could be his last home playoff game... I'm cool with that... Heck we got nothing to lose..

Peck
05-18-2005, 02:56 AM
I'm sure you'll be told this can't work. I'm sure you'll be told we can't win without JO starting and playing a big role. To win in the playoffs you have to go to JO and pound it in some will say.

At this point... I say we have nothing to lose. Let Reggie go out in a blaze of glory and let's see if the offense can get into a rhythm. We know what doesn't work so why go back to it?

And for the naysayers all I can say is:
Pacers 94
Piston 81
March 25th, 2005 at Detroit.
It was tried once and worked once.

Does anyone really think the status quo is going anywhere?

-Bball

I went back & looked at the 3/25 game to see if there was a trend I not seeing.

The funny thing is we only had 11 offensive rebounds that game to so there goes my idea out the window in a way.

However there was one glaring differance between this team & that team (well other than Dale Davis played like a Bronzed God but that's a differant story) & that one differance was Austin Croshere.

In that game he had 15 points to lead the team in a very very very balanced offensive attack. Jackson took the most shots but didn't scor the most. Reggie of course only shot 8 times then as well but he went to the foul line 7 times so my guess is he took it more to the rim & he only shot 1 three point shot.

Of course they are going to say that Hamilton was missing from thier lineup but then of course as you know O'Neal, Tins, Artest & most important Bender was not available for us.

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:01 AM
It sometimes amazes me how much stock you guys put into otherwise-meaningless regular season games......

Its not the same game. Its barely the same SPORT.

Yes, you should bench JO and Tinsley, and take even MORE threes than you've been taking already.

Unfortunatly, we won't oblige you and sit Rip for the game...:laugh:

Peck
05-18-2005, 03:07 AM
Yeah I know. But Bball kept talking about that game so I really wanted to go back & look at the stats to see what was differant.

But I agree with you. That is why I keep shaking my head when I keep reading how on Nov. 19 we crushed the Pistons so therefor the same team would do it now. Hell, I don't think Detroit started playing serious ball until after the first of the year.

skyfire
05-18-2005, 03:20 AM
I'd be in favour of JO coming off the bench, and the Pacers looking to get Reggie or Jax going early, DD and Pollard in there to set screens and board. Once the Pistons adjust, bring in JO and Foster and mix it up.

If JO cant beat Sheed effectively enough in the post, then try and get him shots against McDyess or when Ben isn't lurking behind. Get JO shots outside of the post as the alt option of a play set for Reg or Jax, where he can get good looks in the mid range instead of having to create. Both Reg and Jax can be very streaky players and to beat the Pistons we are gonna need to hit some outside shots.

Getting Reg or Jax going early is important as it can take the focus off JO. When he comes in we look to get him good looks at mid-short range. This will in turn take the focus off Foster. Each time the Pistons have adjusted to our play, in subsequent games, it has been extremely effective. Cro in the ECF last season, Foster this season. But each time we were able to switch up our gameplan and do it effectively it bought us 1 or 2 games.

waterjater
05-18-2005, 03:27 AM
The point is Kstat.... our current game plan SUCKS!!!

If it, in deed, may be Reg's last game.....then lets run the offense that suits him and not JO. JO is too damn banged up to be useful. Bench his butt and let the healthy players take a shot at it.

What the hell do we have to lose? We bring that same ****ty isolationist crap to game 6 and it'll be over by the 2nd quarter! End of story.

At the end of the day, if we don't make any outside shots.....it will be meaningless anyway.

Water

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:33 AM
The point is Kstat.... our current game plan SUCKS!!!

If you hate it so much, than the management should ask carlisle to change how he coaches. Sheesh.

Carlisle runs an isolation offense, just like half the NBA. That shouldn't be news to any of you guys, you've seen it for 2 years now.

And yes, i know your frustration. The offense he runs is very maddening, because when guys arent making shots, it looks really bad.

Bball
05-18-2005, 03:37 AM
It sometimes amazes me how much stock you guys put into otherwise-meaningless regular season games......

Its not the same game. Its barely the same SPORT.

Yes, you should bench JO and Tinsley, and take even MORE threes than you've been taking already.

Unfortunatly, we won't oblige you and sit Rip for the game...:laugh:

Well, I'd love to point to how well it worked against the Pistons in the playoffs but I don't have that opportunity. All I can tell you is the Pacers need some creativity in their offense instead of giving you guys exactly what you want: the ball in JO's hands.

I keep going back to that game because it worked. What we are doing now is not working. It's pretty simple really.

Even IF we'd never played that game I'd still be calling for that type of offense because IMHO our best chance relies on motion and spacing and not playing into the teeth of your defense with the most predictable thing, with predictable results, on the planet.

Admit it, you love seeing us throw the ball into JO and watching him hold it because you KNOW that is something that you WILL stop. And it also throws the rest of the offense out of sync which ends up affecting our rebounding and defense.

-Bball

Kstat
05-18-2005, 03:56 AM
I keep going back to that game because it worked. What we are doing now is not working. It's pretty simple really.

As I said before, Carlisle's offense is PERFECT for the regular season. But its way too simple for the playoffs, when teams actually GAMPLAN for you. If you can't win on talent alone, the offense just struggles.


Even IF we'd never played that game I'd still be calling for that type of offense because IMHO our best chance relies on motion and spacing and not playing into the teeth of your defense with the most predictable thing, with predictable results, on the planet.

You're asking carlisle to change the whole offense around. Even the best coaches can't do that in a day.

Did you want him to put in 15 new plays in one practice? Tell his players to just stop doing what he'd been telling them to do all season long? That would be credibility suicide.


Admit it, you love seeing us throw the ball into JO and watching him hold it because you KNOW that is something that you WILL stop. And it also throws the rest of the offense out of sync which ends up affecting our rebounding and defense.

I'm not going to deny that, but then again, I love it when Jax is ISO'd on Prince. I love it when Reggie or Freddie is iso'd on rip. The fact JO gets most of the touches has nothing to do with it.

I know because its the exact same offense he ran in detroit. Post up Billups, Iso Rip, Iso Cliff Robinson. Have Curry stand in the corner, and Ben stand as close to the rim as possible. Replace the names with Dale, Reggie, Jackson, Tinsley and Jermaine, and its the exact same damn offense that got us humiliated by Boston in 2002 and NJ in 2003. There IS NO PLAN B. When its not working, you have to keep doing the same crap over and over again, and hope eventually it will.

I really don't like ragging on Carlisle, because he's light years ahead of any other 4th-year coach. Its his "fool's gold" offense I detested.

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:59 AM
Just curious, what adjustments did RC make when you guys were down 3-1 vs. Orlando?

Kstat
05-18-2005, 04:01 AM
Just curious, what adjustments did RC make when you guys were down 3-1 vs. Orlando?

He decided to play Prince, who got 2 DNP-CDs in games 3 and 4. But it took an ultimatum from ownership to get him to do it. That, and TMac was averaging about 43ppg on Curry.

That was really the only change he made. Prince put the clamps on TMac, and ben wallace was allowed to dominate everyone else.

I don't blame a young coach for sticking with guys he knows, though. But Prince was so obviously better than Curry, even as a rookie.

LArry Brown isnt without faults, either. It took 8 games of crappy play by Hunter before he finally caved in and played Arroyo.

skyfire
05-18-2005, 04:55 AM
If you hate it so much, than the management should ask carlisle to change how he coaches. Sheesh.

Carlisle runs an isolation offense, just like half the NBA. That shouldn't be news to any of you guys, you've seen it for 2 years now.

And yes, i know your frustration. The offense he runs is very maddening, because when guys arent making shots, it looks really bad.

When JO was returning from injury after Jax and Reg being options 1 and 2, we were told that JO was going to be fit in the motion offense that we had been running. What happened to that offense? Have we gradually forgotten it as the playoffs continue, more and more relying on jo for iso's.

I still think with the roster we should have next season, Carlisle's system is sound. Isolation plays with strong post players can be a very effective means of scoring in half court, but its has to be only a component of the offense.

I think Carlisle and the Pacers have the capability to play whatever they want. They have been changing up their system endlessly this season. JO going iso against the Wallaces when he is injured is suicide.

3ptmiller
05-18-2005, 08:01 AM
I think Reggie would have to start ballhogging if u want him to take so many shots, i think he has stepped up but the shots just wont fall... and NO, the defense of Detroit didnt stopped him at all and he tolerates pressure, that is what he lives for and that is what makes him play even better... but this is only a MIRACLE, Reggie aint hitting shots? = MIRACLE

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 08:59 AM
It sometimes amazes me how much stock you guys put into otherwise-meaningless regular season games......

Its not the same game. Its barely the same SPORT.

Yes, you should bench JO and Tinsley, and take even MORE threes than you've been taking already.

Unfortunatly, we won't oblige you and sit Rip for the game...:laugh:



Thank you, thank you, thank you.


Regular season is practice for the playoffs. It in the big picture means little more than that. I don't care what the regular season games.

I posted this someplace else last night but Tinsley and J.O are the keys to the offense, they must do more.

The offense we used in a meangless regular season game in March would be shut down completely by the Pistons in this series.

I saw Reggie get a lot of good looks last night, and he culd not hit

3Ball
05-18-2005, 10:03 AM
It sometimes amazes me how much stock you guys put into otherwise-meaningless regular season games......

Its not the same game. Its barely the same SPORT.

Yes, you should bench JO and Tinsley, and take even MORE threes than you've been taking already.

Unfortunatly, we won't oblige you and sit Rip for the game...:laugh:

Then why is it that teams that do the best in the regular season tend to do the best in the post season? So far only one lower seeded team has lost a series.