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View Full Version : Odd thoughts round 2 game 5....



Peck
05-17-2005, 11:05 PM
I could have posted this right after the loss because I had some time, but in all honesty I wanted to wait till I calmed down a little before I posted.

I'm glad I did.

Oh btw, I'm playing NBAtv in the background listening to the press conferances. Right now they are previewing the E.C. finals between the Pistons & the Heat. Isn't that great, were not eve out yet & they are talkinga about Prince being able to guard Dwayne Wade. When you play like this I guess it's to be expected.

Well let's just get this out of the way right up front.

The Detroit Pistons are the world champions & tonight they certainly showed us why. Sure we sucked & there are a lot of things we did wrong, but you don't get your @ss beat this bad without the other team having a heavy hand in it. Tonight, across the board, the Pistons were the better team with the better coach.

Every loose ball, every rebound, every single hustle play they just beat us & that is the bottom line. They beat us so bad many of us are already conceding the series. Our team pretty much conceded the game mid-way through the third quarter so it's hard to blame some of our fans for giving up on the series.

I asked last year at this time & I ask again this year. The Rasheed Wallace trade was there for us to make from Atlanta just like it was for Detroit. Why didn't we do it? I know some of you are gonna say because we had the best record in the NBA & that probably is true but I kept saying over & over our center spot was not set. Of course you might wonder if a team of both Artest & R. Wallace might be a little explosive but I have come to the conclusion that even though I hate his on court demenor with ref's., I think he is a true leader of a team.

Detroit beat us, hands down that's all there is to say.

Now to us.

Right off of the bat I can tell you that for us to have an success we are going to need a couple of things to happen.

1. We are going to have to hit some form of outside shot. I don't just mean 3 point shots, I mean any kind of shot away from the basket. If we don't it's pretty much over.

2. We must have multiple players going for rebounds on the offensive end. The old stop the transition buckets be damned, we are getting killed on the boards & it is because if you will notice that Detroits big men very rarely grab offensive reounds. They do however tap a ton of offensive rebounds to thier guards & small forwards who, as you may notice, have not left the offensive end of the court to stop our transition. The reason is simple an offensive rebound absolutely stops transition baskets.

3. We must penetrate & kick. Of course this goes back to hitting some shots as well. But whether it's Jamaal or Jackson or Jeff Foster driving we need somebody flanking him going to the rack & anther player getting to som mid level 10' jumper area.

4. Defensively we need to stay with our man better & not get caught on switches. Like we did several times in the second quarter.

Now to the players.

Dale Davis was the only player in the 3rd quarter who seemed to have any urgency about him. Normally I always make it a point to say that I am a huge fan, but in this case I'm not going to. No matter if I was a fan or not Dale was the only person who was doing anything to make the situation better. He rebounded & he played solid defense. He just didn't score which at the end of his career will always be the one thing we look back on & say that this is the reason he was never a true star. But it's to late to change those spots now. Dale did his part.

Stephen Jackson tried. He got the Pistons in the penalty to begin with but eventually they shut him down. He did a horrid job of keeping Prince off of the boards though & several times in the first half he was nowhere to be found in blocking out. But I never felt like he was a detriment on the floor.

Jermaine O'Neal. We may need to be honest here. As long as Rasheed Wallace is a Piston & as long as he is not old & haggard Detroit may always enjoy the advantage vs. us with J.O. It's not about talent, it's about for whatever reason Jermaine just cannot play well against him. It may be that Sheed is just that good, it may be that they are to friendly & therfor J.O. can't get up for it, it might be that it's the mentor thing I've mentioned or it might be something else all-together. But for whatever reason since Sheed arrived in Detroit Jermaine just has not been the same kind of player vs. them. Now I know some of you are disgusted with some of our fans for seeming to blame the entire series on J.O. & let's be honest it's not fair to blame it all on him. However I think you should not complain about our fellow forum members that much either because J.O. is the franchise player. He wants it, he demanded it & now that it's hear people expect a certain level of play from him. Right now, even J.O. fans have to admit this, he is not playing to the level of his contract.

Reggie. Again, same rule as Sunday, I have vowed to not say anything bad about him because it is his last year but man is it tough to not do that tonight. But since I promised I will only say this. Reggie wore his uniform very neatly.

Jamaal. We got another taste of Mel Mel the abuser & man was it putrid. I felt abused after about the 17 min. mark in the game. I don't know if it's Rick or Jamaal but we are not running any real form of offense. Ok, it may be Detroit's defense as well.

*side note* Look Detroit played about as good on the defensive end during the 3rd quarter as I have ever seen played. So maybe it was just that *end side note*

I'm not even going to try and analyze the bench players because it just wouldn't be worth it.

A.J. played well but beyond that I'm not sure anybody else really did. I also wonder if maybe Rick doesn't trust Jeff that much vs. Detroit because he sure has no problem giving him the hook early on.

I'm sorry guys that I don't have any further in depth thoughts on the game, we just got our @ss kicked & I don't know what else to say.

We have one game to get it right or we will see the end of Reggie right on our own floor.

The only thing that I do fear now is that there might be some real violence at the end of the game on Thursday if we do lose because there will be lots of raw emotion about that being Reggie's last game & while not all Piston fans are @ssholes there certainly are some who will be sure to rub it in to our fans faces.

Let's hope cooler heads prevail & better yet let's hope the Pacers turn this thing around.

Doug
05-17-2005, 11:14 PM
Every loose ball, every rebound, every single hustle play they just beat us & that is the bottom line.

I haven't even read the rest of your post yet, but I wanted to give that a hearty AMEN!

They wanted it more. Championship teams make those plays. I knew when we were giving up all those second chance points we were probably in deep do-do.

shags
05-17-2005, 11:19 PM
What trade could the Pacers have made for Sheed? The Hawks were looking for expiring contracts and draft picks. The Pistons had a better draft pick (Milwaukee's) and had some expiring contracts, which the Pacers didn't have.

Heck, if Dumars hadn't cut Hubert Davis as a favor a month earlier, the Pistons wouldn't have had to trade Chucky Atkins in that deal. It would have been Sura, Rebraca, Hunter, H.Davis, and 2 first round draft picks.

Was it a ridiculous deal? Of course. But the Pacers couldn't have offered anything better, considering what Atlanta wanted.

brich
05-17-2005, 11:20 PM
I agree with most of your comments, but I thought that Dale really struggled in the first half. He looked a step or two slow, and I recall more than a few dunks by Ben Wallace, and then seeing Dale underneath the basket. To give Dale the benefit of the doubt, maybe someody else dropped the ball on help defense.

He also struggled mightily to make a shot or to get fouled underneath. I have to confess that I did not watch all of the second half, because I was fearful that my head would explode, so Dale may have been more respectable in the third quarter than I remember.

I love Dale, and I love Reggie, but it is hard to fight father time forever. They both have alot of gas in the tank, but the Pistons are tough matchups for both of them.

Peck
05-17-2005, 11:25 PM
What trade could the Pacers have made for Sheed? The Hawks were looking for expiring contracts and draft picks. The Pistons had a better draft pick (Milwaukee's) and had some expiring contracts, which the Pacers didn't have.

Heck, if Dumars hadn't cut Hubert Davis as a favor a month earlier, the Pistons wouldn't have had to trade Chucky Atkins in that deal. It would have been Sura, Rebraca, Hunter, H.Davis, and 2 first round draft picks.

Was it a ridiculous deal? Of course. But the Pacers couldn't have offered anything better, considering what Atlanta wanted.

Ok, good point although we might have been able to put something together close to it. But the 1st round picks we didn't have, so I guess this is a moot point on my part.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 11:27 PM
I asked last year at this time & I ask again this year. The Rasheed Wallace trade was there for us to make from Atlanta just like it was for Detroit. Why didn't we do it? I know some of you are gonna say because we had the best record in the NBA & that probably is true but I kept saying over & over our center spot was not set. Of course you might wonder if a team of both Artest & R. Wallace might be a little explosive but I have come to the conclusion that even though I hate his on court demenor with ref's., I think he is a true leader of a team.




Wait just a minute. Sorry Peck, I had to stop reading your post.

But where in the world are you getting this information. Pacers had a chance to get Sheed. This is all news to me. If the pacers did then they should have gotten him

Peck, I swear this is the first word I've seen that the Pacers had a chance to get Sheed. I would have jumped at the chance, if for no other season then to keep him away from the Pistons. Because when they got Sheed the Pistons jumped ahead of the pacers, I posted that about 25 minutes after the trade.

indytoad
05-17-2005, 11:29 PM
Even if they did have a chance to grab him, or any impact player for that matter, I can't imagine them doing so.

He's not called Donnie Do-Nothing for no reason. Although throwing around contracts like tic-tacs also kinda hampers your trade options.

IndyToad
Has vastly improved gameplay

Peck
05-17-2005, 11:31 PM
No, no. It was my bad. I was just saying that the trade was there to be made with Atlanta in theory. I never heard that they were trying, I'm just saying it Detroit made the move we should have also made the move. However Shags has already corrected me. So forget I mentioned it.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 11:33 PM
No, no. It was my bad. I was just saying that the trade was there to be made with Atlanta in theory. I never heard that they were trying, I'm just saying it Detroit made the move we should have also made the move. However Shags has already corrected me. So forget I mentioned it.


OK, no problem.

I agree with the rest of your post. Excepot the offensive rebounding. The one time the Pacers went for it, the Pistons tipped the ball ahead and had a 2 on zero fastbreak

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 12:23 AM
Four words for this game: "We're out of gas."

Bball
05-18-2005, 12:48 AM
Four words for this game: "We're out of gas."

There's a White Castle just a couple of blocks from Conseco on South St. If the team needs some gas that should do it....


-Bball

Shade
05-18-2005, 12:50 AM
Reggie Miller sucks.

Sincerely,
Detroit

P.S. Please forward this to the Indiana Pacers lockerroom. Thank you.

MagicRat
05-18-2005, 01:17 AM
There's a White Castle just a couple of blocks from Conseco on South St. If the team needs some gas that should do it....


-Bball

Who says Rick can't make adjustments?.....

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/rickcastle.jpg

pb777
05-18-2005, 03:51 AM
MR - thats hillarious (JO smiling in the back)
:lol:

indygeezer
05-18-2005, 06:39 AM
2. We must have multiple players going for rebounds on the offensive end. The old stop the transition buckets be damned, we are getting killed on the boards & it is because if you will notice that Detroits big men very rarely grab offensive reounds. They do however tap a ton of offensive rebounds to thier guards & small forwards who, as you may notice, have not left the offensive end of the court to stop our transition. The reason is simple an offensive rebound absolutely stops transition baskets.


Bobby Leonard talked about this during the game. He was really frustrated with it and said so. It's as close as I've ever heard him come to calling Rick out on anything. He said we have got to grab the rebound and quit worrying about their break. They don't have one if we get the ball. He was pi$$ed.


From what I saw of the first Q and then listening on the radio to the rest, it sounded as if we left our cajones back in Boston.

I'm sorry, but it looked and sounded as if there just was no real effort expended last night. I cannot accept soft play and NO HEART.

Stupid play on the PG's part is not something I can abide either and the last I heard JO had a total of 2 rebounds. THat is unforgivable. (Actually 3...Prince grabbed as many rebounds as DAVIS and JO COMBINED!....12)


It was an embarrassment and if another occurs....I'll move over to the dark side with Jay.

(EDIT) I will give JAx2 props tho. As much as I've ripped him...he's been the only starter to come to play the last 2 games. At least HE seems to get it.