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Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 10:52 PM
Maybe when you read the title to this thread, you thought it was a joke, but no I'm serious. Tonight the Pacers ran out of gas and the Pistons just took the game away from the Pacers.

Let's be honest here. This season ended on November 19, 2004. The season will not end Thursday or Sunday it ended several months ago. Everything since 11/19 has been merely setting the stage for next season.

Don't get me wrong, this season has been fun, I've enjoyed it, but if anyone thought the Paacers were going to do anything in the playoffs, you were kidding yourself.

I'm glad for Reggie's sake that the Pacers made the playoffs and beat a very flawed Boston Celtics team, but you simply don't beat really good teams in the playoffs without one of your best players, with your other best player at about 60%, a point guard who missed about 3 months of the season, and you don't beat good playoff teams when there is so much mass confusuon all season long.

From what one of the reporters said in the postgame press conference, J.O. was doubled over in pain at halftime and yes it was his shoulder. So please let's not overreact to J.O.'s performance, lets not suggest "starting over" is the answer.

All this will make the Pacers stronger next season, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

I think it was Peck who asked me if I had given up on this season, this was I think in early December, I forget my specific answer, but after 11/19, my expectations changed. This team was no longer a championship contender. I dealt with the season being over back then, I dealt with the fact that another season would go by without a championship back then, so what is happening now is really just a formality. There were times in December, January, and February that my interest waned. There were times when I did not bring much enthusiasm to watching the Pacers.

However, by the time March rolled around the Pacers started playing much better. I became more enthused, and for about 8 weeks here it was fun again. I've enjoyed watching the heart that they have played with. I've enjoyed watching the great coaching from Carlisle, Brown, O'Neill, Burke and the others. But never for one second did I think the pacers could beat the Pistons or the Heat. I remember posting that the Pacers had about a 5% chance of beating the Pistons.

Sorry about this rambling post, not sure what my point is. I guess my point is lets not over-react to the Pacers losing to the NBA champs. This season ended November 19th.

Of course I'll be there Thursday night for game #6, I've never missed a Pacers home playoff game, in fact I'll likely get there really early, hopefully close to 5:30 when the gates open. I'll be cheering like I always do.

Hoop
05-17-2005, 10:55 PM
:love: I LOVE UNCLE BUCK!

Isaac
05-17-2005, 10:58 PM
I agree UB, but the season did not end on 11/19, thats taking away what Jax, Reggie, James Jones and everybody else did this season. Yes, we lost our (debatably) best player to suspension for the rest of the year. But that doesn't mean the season ended. Just because we were no longer legit title contenders doesn't mean the season was over. People doubted whether we could even make the playoffs, we did. People doubted whether Reggie could still play, he dropped 30+ on multiple occasions and carried the team to the 6th seed. People REALLY doubted that we could beat Boston, we did. People REALLY REALLY doubted that we could even get a game on Detroit, we had the series lead and had a lot of Detroit fans mad. We still have a chance to take this series seven, although I don't think it will happen, we gave the defending champs a run for their money even without our best defender and all-star. I am mad 11/19 happened, but this season has strengthened my Pacers pride, and I am so proud to be a fan of this organization. Just because our title chances are pretty much gone when we had a good shot at the beginning of the year doesn't mean the season ended on 11/19, not by any means.

Dr Huxtable
05-17-2005, 10:58 PM
I completley agree UB.

There's really no reason to be upset that we're getting beat by a much better team wheb we're playing with a fraction of our talent.

My dad, who's not a big Pacers fan but watches the games with me most of the time, was wondering why I wasn't complaining and upset during tonights game. I couldn't really explain it to him at the time, but when I come home from school tomorrow I'll have a perfect explanation thanks to UB putting words to what I was thinking.

obnoxiousmodesty
05-17-2005, 10:58 PM
This is the best post you've ever made.

pacerwaala
05-17-2005, 11:02 PM
Maybe when you read the title to this thread, you thought it was a joke, but no I'm serious. Tonight the Pacers ran out of gas and the Pistons just took the game away from the Pacers.

Let's be honest here. This season ended on November 19, 2004. The season will not end Thursday or Sunday it ended several months ago. Everything since 11/19 has been merely setting the stage for next season.

Don't get me wrong, this season has been fun, I've enjoyed it, but if anyone thought the Paacers were going to do anything in the playoffs, you were kidding yourself.

I'm glad for Reggie's sake that the Pacers made the playoffs and beat a very flawed Boston Celtics team, but you simply don't beat really good teams in the playoffs without one of your best players, with your other best player at about 60%, a point guard who missed about 3 months of the season, and you don't beat good playoff teams when there is so much mass confusuon all season long.

From what one of the reporters said in the postgame press conference, J.O. was doubled over in pain at halftime and yes it was his shoulder. So please let's not overreact to J.O.'s performance, lets not suggest "starting over" is the answer.

All this will make the Pacers stronger next season, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

I think it was Peck who asked me if I had given up on this season, this was I think in early December, I forget my specific answer, but after 11/19, my expectations changed. This team was no longer a championship contender. I dealt with the season being over back then, I dealt with the fact that another season would go by without a championship back then, so what is happening now is really just a formality. There were times in December, January, and February that my interest waned. There were times when I did not bring much enthusiasm to watching the Pacers.

However, by the time March rolled around the Pacers started playing much better. I became more enthused, and for about 8 weeks here it was fun again. I've enjoyed watching the heart that they have played with. I've enjoyed watching the great coaching from Carlisle, Brown, O'Neill, Burke and the others. But never for one second did I think the pacers could beat the Pistons or the Heat. I remember posting that the Pacers had about a 5% chance of beating the Pistons.

Sorry about this rambling post, not sure what my point is. I guess my point is lets not over-react to the Pacers losing to the NBA champs. This season ended November 19th.

Of course I'll be there Thursday night for game #6, I've never missed a Pacers home playoff game, in fact I'll likely get there really early, hopefully close to 5:30 when the gates open. I'll be cheering like I always do.



I agree 100%. Actually, this has been one of the best seasons and the NBA League Pass expense this year was worth it. I was steadfast in my Pacer fandom this year and am proud of it.

I REGRET NOT BEING AT THE GAME IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BRAWL WHEN WE HAD JUST SIX PLAYERS.

I really hope Rick Carlisle has a Jerry Sloan kind of career here.

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 11:08 PM
Well, if we have good health next season, it will be interesting to see if Rick can ever get a fluent offense in place here. I'd like to think so, but I think our team might need a few tweaks. Another low post option, a consistent sharp-shooter, and improved team play on offense might get us there.

Of course, DH and JJ could always fill the roles I mentioned above, if were lucky.

Doug
05-17-2005, 11:10 PM
**** that. I still believe.

Doug
05-17-2005, 11:11 PM
No offense, UB. :-)

indytoad
05-17-2005, 11:14 PM
Even though I detest the concept of moral victories, even I must concede that winning two games against Detroit is a minor victory in itself. That's as many as we won last year. As someone said a while back, anything we manage to accomplish in this round is gravy.

This season hasn't given me much hope for the next, however, for several reasons. But I don't want to taint such a positive thread so early. I'll let Jay take care of that.

IndyToad
Until morale improves, the beatings will continue

Peck
05-17-2005, 11:22 PM
I'm sorry people, I love U.B.'s posts as much as anybody but this is complete & totall B.S.

The season ended on 11/19? Maybe for you & the rest of the Artestaholics but some of us have been with this team rooting for them for who they are not in spite of who they were missing the rest of the season.

I find it amusing that you are now calling Boston flawed & blowing off any thoughts about them being any real competition when last year I said the exact same thing against a much weaker Boston team, yet you flailed on me for doubting that your precious 61 win season wasn't the greatest of all time.

Yes, 11/19 was bad but it could just have as easily been over two weeks before hand when the nutjob walked in and retired.

I am more proud of this team & the way they've played this season far more than I ever was last year.

I'll go ahead & say it now. Not one time tonight or even on Sunday did I ever think in my head "man, if only Artest were here". Now I may have thought "man, if only Bender were here" or something like that but never Artest.

I will go to the mat with these guys on Thursday & hope just for your sake they beat the Pistons & win a damn title just to see how you would downplay that as well.

Sorry folks, I love U.B.'s post, but this one just sent me over the edge. It has the feel of a buzzard lingering over a dying animal.


*late edit* Ok, I've calmed down now. I apologize to U.B. for my post because he just posted what he felt. I definately should have just not posted on this thread.

Big Smooth
05-17-2005, 11:31 PM
I'm sorry people, I love U.B.'s posts as much as anybody but this is complete & totall B.S.

The season ended on 11/19? Maybe for you & the rest of the Artestaholics but some of us have been with this team rooting for them for who they are not in spite of who they were missing the rest of the season.

I find it amusing that you are now calling Boston flawed & blowing off any thoughts about them being any real competition when last year I said the exact same thing against a much weaker Boston team, yet you flailed on me for doubting that your precious 61 win season wasn't the greatest of all time.

Yes, 11/19 was bad but it could just have as easily been over two weeks before hand when the nutjob walked in and retired.

I am more proud of this team & the way they've played this season far more than I ever was last year.

I'll go ahead & say it now. Not one time tonight or even on Sunday did I ever think in my head "man, if only Artest were here". Now I may have thought "man, if only Bender were here" or something like that but never Artest.

I will go to the mat with these guys on Thursday & hope just for your sake they beat the Pistons & win a damn title just to see how you would downplay that as well.

Sorry folks, I love U.B.'s post, but this one just sent me over the edge. It has the feel of a buzzard lingering over a dying animal.

I kind of agree. I never considered the season over. I figured once SJax and JO came back, the Pacers could still contend. And really things ended up worse than we thought with JO and Tinsley getting hurt. Yet the Pacers still finished strong and have fought hard in the playoffs.

I want no part of a loser mentality, regardless of what anyone may perceive as reality. We go home for Game 6. Win that game and it's up for grabs.

Harmonica
05-17-2005, 11:32 PM
Even though I detest the concept of moral victories, even I must concede that winning two games against Detroit is a minor victory in itself. That's as many as we won last year. As someone said a while back, anything we manage to accomplish in this round is gravy.

This season hasn't given me much hope for the next, however, for several reasons. But I don't want to taint such a positive thread so early. I'll let Jay take care of that.

IndyToad
Until morale improves, the beatings will continue

I liked your little Toadisms when they weren't so pointed.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 11:39 PM
I'm sorry people, I love U.B.'s posts as much as anybody but this is complete & totall B.S.

The season ended on 11/19? Maybe for you & the rest of the Artestaholics but some of us have been with this team rooting for them for who they are not in spite of who they were missing the rest of the season.

I find it amusing that you are now calling Boston flawed & blowing off any thoughts about them being any real competition when last year I said the exact same thing against a much weaker Boston team, yet you flailed on me for doubting that your precious 61 win season wasn't the greatest of all time.

Yes, 11/19 was bad but it could just have as easily been over two weeks before hand when the nutjob walked in and retired.

I am more proud of this team & the way they've played this season far more than I ever was last year.

I'll go ahead & say it now. Not one time tonight or even on Sunday did I ever think in my head "man, if only Artest were here". Now I may have thought "man, if only Bender were here" or something like that but never Artest.

I will go to the mat with these guys on Thursday & hope just for your sake they beat the Pistons & win a damn title just to see how you would downplay that as well.

Sorry folks, I love U.B.'s post, but this one just sent me over the edge. It has the feel of a buzzard lingering over a dying animal.


*late edit* Ok, I've calmed down now. I apologize to U.B. for my post because he just posted what he felt. I definately should have just not posted on this thread.


The Celtics last year were maybe the worst playoff team I've ever seen. I never posted anything different that that. I agreed with most everyone that the playoffs did not start last season until the heat series.

The Celtics this season were very good competition for this Pacers team.

Peck, you know I've been rooting them on and my heart believed, but my mind never did.

Peck
05-17-2005, 11:44 PM
The Celtics last year were maybe the worst playoff team I've ever seen. I never posted anything different that that. I agreed with most everyone that the playoffs did not start last season until the heat series.

The Celtics this season were very good competition for this Pacers team.

Peck, you know I've been rooting them on and my heart believed, but my mind never did.


Yes, I know. Like I said, I'm sorry about that. I really shouldn't have even gotten on the computer till much later. I would have made Bball's frustrated ramblings seem like a short story by a third grader.

Unclebuck
05-17-2005, 11:47 PM
Peck, please don't apologize,

abington
05-18-2005, 12:13 AM
I was at game 4. Ive posted that in another thread. One of the great moments of my life was watching on the jumbrotron as Jeff Foster and Reggie Miller and the rest of the Pacers were in the tunnell about to come out to shoot around and then for the introductions. With only about 1/3 of the fans in their seats the place went nuts as we ran onto the court. It was euphoric feeling. we were up 2-1 and WE WERE ONE GOOD HOME GAME AWAY FROM BEING UP 3-1. Those few moments were one of the great moments and feelings in my life. This season was not over then. It was not over 11/20 and IT IS NOT OVER NOW. It ends if and when we get eliminated. And only then.

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 12:20 AM
I should probably stay out of this thread, but there's a reason I nominated UncleBuck for most pessimistic.

This bogus belief that minus one certain player, the rest of the team is crap. Yet he's in the sunshine brigade and I'm the 'hater'?

I typed a long response, but I'm just going to throw most of it away, say one thing and then stay away.

We proved in the playoffs that with a banged-up JO, a banged-up Tinsley, an occasionally shining moment from Reggie and inconsistent performances from SJax and DD that we were one of the top-three teams in the East. With a little health (and a little more gas in the tank), and a little more maturity from SJax and JO, this team -as configured tonight- is a contender in The East. And with any legit starting SF next season, they are still contenders in The East.

Sometime this summer, we're going to break down your 'this player means x wins stat.' Between JO's injury, Tinsley's injury, Foster's lingering hip injury, JO's and SJax's suspensions, Harrison's season-ending concussion (yes I know he played a little after that, but for all practical purpsoes that was the end of his season) etc., we went from 61-wins and losing to the Pistons in six to 44-wins and (presumably) losing to the Pistons in six. So that's minus-17.

Realisitcially, I think we lost ten games this season because of JO's suspension and injuries. If you credit 2 games apiece to SJax's supsension and Tinsley's injury, then maybe Ron is worth, AT MOST, +3 on your scale. And we didn't drop from EC runner-up to 'the third best team in the EC playoffs' because of Ron, but because of Shaq (and his influence on Wade and Haslem) in Miami.

Stryder
05-18-2005, 12:23 AM
The season ended on 11/19/04? I think not.

Tell that to the players that endured the season.

Tell that to the fans that came out in droves to cheer the underdog.

sweabs
05-18-2005, 12:26 AM
With a little health (and a little more gas in the tank), and a little more maturity from SJax and JO, this team -as configured tonight- is a contender in The East.

Before every year I wonder if we will have a "little health, and a little more maturity".............

MagicRat
05-18-2005, 12:27 AM
**** that. I still believe.

:woohoo:

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 12:27 AM
When I say the season ended 11/19, what I really mean is championship possibilities ended 11/19

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 12:29 AM
When I say the season ended 11/19, what I really mean is championship possibilities ended 11/19

Pessimist. :tongue:



:flirt:

Bball
05-18-2005, 12:47 AM
When I say the season ended 11/19, what I really mean is championship possibilities ended 11/19

They didn't end... they simply changed. There was still plenty of time to gel and make player moves. Once Dale was brought back the team was recharged and a Finals appearance was no longer out of the question. Unfortunately, as of yet our team still proved that some of the players we counted on are still 'not there'. I don't think that would've changed whether Artest was here or not. ...So we were probably operating on a bit of fool's gold in the first place.

But the season didn't 'end' 11/19. It hasn't ended yet for that matter.

I won't argue that the bus driver isn't warming the bus and the fat lady is in the shower practicing scales tho...

-Bball

Shade
05-18-2005, 12:47 AM
Since the season ended on November 19, why the hell have I been buying game tix all month? :confused:

Hoop
05-18-2005, 01:04 AM
When I say the season ended 11/19, what I really mean is championship possibilities ended 11/19
That's how I took your post from the start.

Los Angeles
05-18-2005, 01:19 AM
Since the season ended on November 19, why the hell have I been buying game tix all month? :confused:
I don't know why this has me riled up, but I don't think you have a right to argue when the season ended until you change your ticker back to 2-3.

Talk about Pot and Kettle, dude.

The season no more ended on May 17 than it did on November 19. That's right, both those dates are wrong. Why? Because the Pacers still have at least one more game to play.

abington
05-18-2005, 11:11 AM
I don't know why this has me riled up, but I don't think you have a right to argue when the season ended until you change your ticker back to 2-3.

Talk about Pot and Kettle, dude.

The season no more ended on May 17 than it did on November 19. That's right, both those dates are wrong. Why? Because the Pacers still have at least one more game to play.

exactly. we continue. anyways, life is about the journey.

RWB
05-18-2005, 11:37 AM
When I say the season ended 11/19, what I really mean is championship possibilities ended 11/19

I understand exactly where UB is coming from. I remember watching 11/19 with Mrs. RWB going "oh no, oh no" and I'm yelling "Ron you dumb@ss, no trophy this year".

BillS
05-18-2005, 12:03 PM
<snip>

maybe Ron is worth, AT MOST, +3 on your scale.

I know that talking to Jay about Ron is like trying to come off the bench last night in the fourth quarter and win the game ... :D

But.

The last two games in particular were lost almost completely on lack of effective offensive options.

The lack of options were both caused by poor shooting and by inability to get a defensive spark.

You can say all you want about Ron's attitude, his distractions or lack thereof, his committment to the NBA as a whole, but I can't believe that you can tell me that losing our number 2 scorer and our number 1 defender didn't have some effect on that kind of game.

Single defender + no team defense : partial opportunity
Team defense + no great single defender: partial opportunity
Single defender + team defense: shuts down multiple options on the other side.

After all, we're down to talkng about SJax as our best defender. No disrespect to SJax, but that hasn't proven to be enough.


Meanwhile, note to self: before posting, read all new posts by Uncle Buck and just nod :bowdown:

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 12:33 PM
I know that talking to Jay about Ron is like trying to come off the bench last night in the fourth quarter and win the game ... :D

-snip-You can say all you want about Ron's attitude, his distractions or lack thereof, his committment to the NBA as a whole, but I can't believe that you can tell me that losing our number 2 scorer and our number 1 defender didn't have some effect on that kind of game.


I've never disagreed with that. We need another good, starting-caliber SF to be a legit championship contender, not just a top-three-in-the-east team.

I just want it to be somebody I can trust, even if he's marginally less than Ron, talent-wise.

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 12:40 PM
I'm talking just in general terms. The Pacers need another creator, they need another guy who can create a shot for himself, get fouled or can create a shot for a teammate.

I think Ron can do all those things. His ability to get to the free throw line is a skill that is often overlooked. Getting to the FT line is the best way to stop long runs especially on the road.

If Ron must be traded, then the Pacers better get a guy who can create a shot against great defense and in payoff games. Without that type of player the pacers won't get beyond the second round.

I do appreciate the many compliments in this thread.
The crazty thing is I had no idea what I was going to say when I started, I jut started typing

ABADays
05-18-2005, 02:30 PM
Let me preface what I have to say by stating I am extremely proud of what the Pacers have done this season despite the overwhelming odds. Making the playoffs was gravy. Beating Boston was dessert. And as one who picked us to win one game against Detroit (because I thought we looked awfully tired against Boston) it's been Outback. Of course, that jumps up to St. Elmo's if we were to win this series. There is absolutely no question in my mind we had an NBA championship in our midst. To do what we have done, post brawl, is nothing short of amazing.

Scattered thoughts from this year:

Yes we have been blown out sometimes. And I, like everyone else, do not like for our team to be embarrassed. But I really believe we showed tremendous heart and character this year.

Clearly, amazing opportunities for guys who would not have seen the floor. Best part - they produced for the most part - the Jones Boys in particular. We have a lot of experienced depth now.

May not be a popular opinion, but I think we were fortunate is picking up SJax. Questionable actions sometimes? Yes. But there are games where he has shown himself to be a hunter. The guy can flat out play.

I'm glad Dale Davis is here.

I hated the dump it to JO offense. It was just horrible to watch.

After an exciting start, I have some nagging concerns about David Harrison.

Reggie proved me right about my year long defense of him.

I have no qualms whatsoever about keeping every player we have with one exception :whistle: I am probably in the minority but I am glad we have Pollard and Croshere here. I think they are class guys and true professionals. And I don't care about their contracts.

Did Tinsley mature? Incredible talent with an incredible ability to waste it.

JO is a very good regular season player. I hope he can develop into a good playoff performer. I think this year's post season games have done some damage. All talk aside, I have doubts if there is any player on the team who feels like Jermaine can carry them at crunch time.

Admirable job by AJ in a tough situation but he really needs to develop some ball handling skills. Gill? He's fine as a third point guard.

Rick is only going to get better as a coach.

Ron owes this organization and its fans an apology.

Scattered thoughts for next year:

We CAN be the NBA champions.

Aside from saying the right things, I hope JO will become the performer and leader this franchise is hoping for. He's got a lot of work to do to get the same respect Reggie earned.

I want to see Tinsley become a seasoned veteran. At his age, he needs to drop the Rucker mentality. When he is on, there is hardly a more beautiful sight on the court.

I want David Harrison to dispell the thoughts I'm beginning to have about the pre-draft talk. He's such a likeable guy and I would like to see him here for a lot of years.

I want us to be able to dictate the type of game being played not the other way around. We have the players to play about any kind of game we need to.

I want to keep this team together. I want to win it all for everyone who gutted out this season. Staff, coaches and players alike.

One Goal becomes One Mission.

I am going to miss Reggie terribly.

Oh . . . and last but not least, do you think there will be a way for me to SEE the games somehow on the internet from Dubai?

Hicks
05-18-2005, 02:38 PM
What will you be doing here? :confused:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/maps/uae.dubai.jpg

ABADays
05-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Working.

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 02:49 PM
here is a post of mine from December 11th.

You knew this was coming, I waited as long as I could, and I freely admit I should wait until Jax and J.O. come back to make this post. However, I cannot wait any longer.

Pacers will not win a championship without Ron Artist. I believe that with all my mind, heart and soul. (don't get me wrong I am not giving up on the season at all, and I would love to win it all this season no matter who is in the Pacers uniform).

I know the argument on the other side, you can't trust Artest, more than likely he will blow up in the playoffs and cost the Pacers their chance to win. OK I 'll grant you that. But what are the chances of him doing that. I would argue 25%-40%. But I'll go radical and say there is a 75% chance that Artest will do something during the playoffs that will lose a playoff series for the Pacers.

If I buy that scenerio, that leaves me with this choice. Without Ron they have a 0% chance, with Ron they have something less than a 25% chance. For all you who say that the Pacers cannot win with Ron, I say they have no chance without him, but a perhaps 25% chance with him.

25% is a lot better than 0%.

Of course this all begs the question that you are all asking, UB how can you be so sure the Pacers cannot win the whole thing without Ron Artest. No team can lose their second best player and win the championship, it has never happened and it never will. Simple as that.



One other theory that I thought about the other day. With this likely Reggie's last season. Does anyone else think that perhaps the Pacers asked Reggie in the offseason whether they should just dump Ron. Not should they make a good trade for Ron, we know they tried that and failed, but I believe is it possible maybe even likely that they had some chances to basically dump Ron.

I believe Reggie told the Pacers organization that if they just dump Ron the Pacers can't win a championship , and Reggie only has one more chance, so I believe he told the pacers to trade Ron but only if they get a good trade, otherwise the team will deal with him as best they can. Does that make any sense to anyone else. I have no inside info, just my own lame brain theory.

Hicks
05-18-2005, 03:06 PM
Working.

How long? When do you head out?

ABADays
05-18-2005, 03:09 PM
If I told you I would have to kill you.

ChicagoJ
05-18-2005, 03:15 PM
One other theory that I thought about the other day. With this likely Reggie's last season. Does anyone else think that perhaps the Pacers asked Reggie in the offseason whether they should just dump Ron. Not should they make a good trade for Ron, we know they tried that and failed, but I believe is it possible maybe even likely that they had some chances to basically dump Ron.

I believe Reggie told the Pacers organization that if they just dump Ron the Pacers can't win a championship , and Reggie only has one more chance, so I believe he told the pacers to trade Ron but only if they get a good trade, otherwise the team will deal with him as best they can. Does that make any sense to anyone else. I have no inside info, just my own lame brain theory.

I think that's possible, and I've wondered that myself. But be careful, you might be sipping some of the Haterade too if you're implying these guys "don't support Ron 110%."

:buddies:

Any "dump Ron" scenarios, which even I haven't really advocated in a couple of seasons, were made when the team was still two-or-three years ago from contending... enough time to find his replacement in the draft, free agency or a separate trade.

Clearly, if your window is 'this season', then dumping *any* player in your rotation without an adequate replacement is going to set you back.

I think the appropriate question is, minus Reggie and with Ron, is this team next season is any better than third in the East? Or are they still 2-4 years away? I know a lot of you look at the first nine games of this season, attempt to extrapolate that to an 82-game marathon plus the playoffs, and say "yes". For several seasons now we've put out the best team in the league in November, but with only one ECF appearance to show for it. So I think our hot November start and regular season success is overrated and that extrapolation is too simplistic.

If there's ever a "dump Ron" move by the Pacers, its because they don't believe they will be legit contenders for a couple more seasons and they want to be flexible in re-building the team. And that made more sense at the end of the Isiah Thomas era than it has recently, although it might make sense again in the post-Reggie era.

Unclebuck
05-18-2005, 03:56 PM
Excellent points Jay. I guess after jumping all over Bball about comparing regular season to playoffs, I can't use the 1st 9 games of this season theory.

But I will say I liked what I saw in the 1st nine games. Even though that seems like a lifetime ago.

I don't think all the players support Ron 100%, I'd be happy if they support him 50%

Peck
05-18-2005, 04:29 PM
Excellent points Jay. I guess after jumping all over Bball about comparing regular season to playoffs, I can't use the 1st 9 games of this season theory.

But I will say I liked what I saw in the 1st nine games. Even though that seems like a lifetime ago.

I don't think all the players support Ron 100%, I'd be happy if they support him 50%

I think you liked the first 9 games better because Foster was on the I.R.L. with Reggie & A.J. & you really seceretly love Austin Croshere. ;)

zag
05-18-2005, 05:10 PM
There's no way this season ended on November 19th. We're looking at losing to the same team by the same number of games for the 2nd straight year. Let's not forget that the team that won a league best 61 games last season with Artest and a more productive JO (he had to have played better in last year's Detroit series than this one) still lost to the Pistons 4-2. So if you are going to say that this season was over on November 19th, did you also find a point during the regular season last year when you said it was over? Going into last year's playoffs I know I was very confident that the Pacers would reach the finals, and it might be the same result this season.

Diamond Dave
05-18-2005, 05:16 PM
Amen.

gilpdawg
05-18-2005, 05:46 PM
If I told you I would have to kill you.
Oh crap dude! Well, whenever you leave, good luck and godspeed. You think you can get NBALP in the Middle East? :)

hoopsforlife
05-18-2005, 07:39 PM
I think this season ended when Austin Croshere lost his outside shot. That said I will watch the Pacers play at Conseco thursday night, a place they have throughly dominated opponents all year, and will be extremely satis....oh yeah Conseco. Never mind..

carrion, Peck. :)