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purdue101
05-17-2005, 08:38 PM
absolutely pathetic on JO's part. how much slop can he throw at the rim. one bad shot after another. eddie gill could do a better job on the defensive boards. 16 offensive boards already for detroit.

this team drives me crazy. we deserve to lose this series playing like this. we play with no heart, urgency, or intensity.

hopefully they can prove me wrong on thurs.

canyoufeelit
05-17-2005, 08:40 PM
enough of the ****ing fadeaways and jumpshots that have no chance of going in

i thought he was supposed to be an inside player - he's a soft jumpshooter

3ptmiller
05-17-2005, 08:44 PM
Exactly

Hoop
05-17-2005, 08:48 PM
Shut the ***** up and think what we been through just to make here. JO is not 100%.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 08:49 PM
Shut the ***** up and think what we been through just to make here. JO is not 100%.


Then get him off the court...he's not helping.

canyoufeelit
05-17-2005, 08:50 PM
Shut the ***** up and think what we been through just to make here. JO is not 100%.

moral victories and excuses don't win championships

Hoop
05-17-2005, 08:55 PM
moral victories and excuses don't win championshipsSo you idiots were sure we'd win the championship after what happened in Nov, didn't think so.

If ever a moral victory is good, wouldn't this be the year. Just to make it to the playoffs this season is pretty damn good.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 08:57 PM
So you idiots were sure we'd win the championship after what happened in Nov, didn't think so.

If ever a moral victory is good, wouldn't this be the year. Just to make it to the playoffs this season is pretty damn good.


Look back in the posts and find ANYONE that said we would win after November.
And making it to the playoffs in this season, isn't good enough. Not with pretty much our whole roster back now. Especially after seeing signs of greatness from this team during the playoffs.

brich
05-17-2005, 09:06 PM
So you idiots were sure we'd win the championship after what happened in Nov, didn't think so.

If ever a moral victory is good, wouldn't this be the year. Just to make it to the playoffs this season is pretty damn good.

You make some good points Hoop, but please realize that you have some very emotionally raw, digusted, and upset fans right now. We will all cool down after awhile, and we are probably being a little harsh on this team right now.

Detroit is the better team, and many of us expected them to win the series, but Dear God...not like this. This has been a total collapse, the effort hasn't been there, and the hustle hasn't been there.

Few people handle losing well, and fewer still handle losses like this well.

If we are going to lose, then let's lose by playing with the heart, tenacity, blood, sweat, and tears that got us here. Let's not go out and play our worst basketball.

Stryder
05-17-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't care.

JO does not need to be taking all these 15 foot fadeaways and the shots like that.

Ridiculous.

He's a PF/C, not a SF/SG...

TheHotShot31
05-17-2005, 09:11 PM
We cant blame the whole thing on Jermaine.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:12 PM
You make some good points Hoop, but please realize that you have some very emotionally raw, digusted, and upset fans right now. We will all cool down after awhile, and we are probably being a little harsh on this team right now.

Detroit is the better team, and many of us expected them to win the series, but Dear God...not like this. This has been a total collapse, the effort hasn't been there, and the hustle hasn't been there.

Few people handle losing well, and fewer still handle losses like this well.

If we are going to lose, then let's lose by playing with the heart, tenacity, blood, sweat, and tears that got us here. Let's not go out and play our worst basketball.


Why you tryin to defend us? That jerk's callin us all idoits!

purdue101
05-17-2005, 09:12 PM
it's one thing to be injured and shorthanded but it's another thing when you play with no intensity, smarts, and with no effort, which we did tonight.

we can beat detroit with this team but we refuse to play pacers basketball and with any intensity.

excuses don't win championships and though i am proud that we made it this far, we can do much better than we did tonight and deserve to lose this game. 100% healthy and w/ artest we still would have gotten our a**es handed to us tonight.

sorry if i touched a nerver hoop, but it's the truth.

efx
05-17-2005, 09:13 PM
Shut the ***** up and think what we been through just to make here. JO is not 100%.

This has very little to do with his condition. He's always settled too much for the fade aways.

Stryder
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
If JO isn't 100%, then tell him to stop jacking up 15 foot fadeaways that have little chance of going in...

canyoufeelit
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
We cant blame the whole thing on Jermaine.

But it is a little easier to do than the other players considering he's shooting < 33% for the series

Hicks
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
Calling people idiots: What PD is all about, right Hoop? :rolleyes:

I agree with your points, though.

canyoufeelit
05-17-2005, 09:14 PM
If JO isn't 100%, then tell him to stop jacking up 15 foot fadeaways that have little chance of going in...

I call it "shooting a turnover"

able
05-17-2005, 09:16 PM
While I didnt think it was possible, I agree with Hoop on this.

JO still isnt 100%, JT is still hurt, and we are missing this one guy, I think his name is "Artest"

Its amazing just to get to this point.

And while JO hasnt played well, there is plently of blame to go around.

I hate when one player becomes the "whipping" boy, never agreed with that theory and I wont agree with it here.

I agree with that, blame the team, blame the coach, he holds most culpability, leave players like JO and JT alone, they are playing through lots of pain and do only what is asked of them, and giving it their all.

No one ever noticed that JO shoots 500 in the first Q and then when he comes back shoots pathetic, if ever a sign of injury locking up.

Rick should know and play him longer and I will not say what I think of the remainder of the coaching, because it sucked as bad as our play.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:16 PM
I don't think anyone is really making JO the "whipping" boy, but he deserves most of the blame. All the players had thier faults, but JO has been a disappointment. Has he not?

ABADays
05-17-2005, 09:19 PM
Jo is the one who opened his mouth! Still waiting JO!

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:22 PM
Really Able?

What did you not like about the coaching?

I thought they did a good job of keeping us in it (I would have liked to see more plays for Reggie) but we got outhustled tonight. And you just cant coach effort, IMHO.


The only thing about Rick, it seems like he isn't getting these boys jacked up to play these big games! He needs to talk to JO, REGGIE, and S-JAX and tell them to play thier biggest games of thier lives. I really don't see much leadership out there.

Jermaniac
05-17-2005, 09:22 PM
Funny everything is blamed on Jermaine, Who the hell eles brought it tonight? We are going to lose by 20, its not JO's fault for that ****. We are losing to a better team I dont get why you are so pissed about it, they are better then us. Just wait till we are 100% next year.

able
05-17-2005, 09:24 PM
yes you can coach effort, yes you can coach people.
Yes you can run around Rip, as Fred showed a number of times, yes something is wrong if you are shooting FT's with 7.02 to go and manage to only go to the line once.
Yes JO stiffens up, so you leave him in longer, and take him out longer while treatinghim before he comes back in.
No you do not run out of timeouts before the 3rd quarter ends.
Yes you take a T when game turning errors are made (Bens shot after time was out and the "offensive" on JO straight after that.
And yes I can go on a while, like how does he spell adjustments ?

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:24 PM
Funny everything is blamed on Jermaine, Who the hell eles brought it tonight? We are going to lose by 20, its not JO's fault for that ****. We are losing to a better team I dont get why you are so pissed about it, they are better then us. Just wait till we are 100% next year.


Isn't JO supposed to be the face of this franchise now? He's not acting like it.

and EVERYTHING isn't being blamed on Jermaine!

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 09:26 PM
At least Jermaine was in the building, unlike the other half of our two-star system...

:whistle:

purdue101
05-17-2005, 09:27 PM
only reason i am calling out JO is b/c he's our franchise player making 120 million dollars. he's the one with the most talent on this team. he's the one talking about how he's gonna bring it this game.

i admit, our whole team played terrible tonight, but i expected more from JO. shooting 50% or not, he was nonexsistent on the glass and on D. detroit's entire starting 5 outrebounded him and so did mcdyess. rip hamilton ripped a rebound right out of his hands and he stood and watched him.

like i said, i am disappointed in the entire team and i am sorry if i have fired some people up but i expect more from this team than what we gave tonight.

brich
05-17-2005, 09:27 PM
Why you tryin to defend us? That jerk's callin us all idoits!

I didn't take the "idiot" comment personally, although I think it was uncalled for. People tend to say things they don't mean when they get upset.

...just trying to steer this thread away from the personal comments to what I thought were the two points of debate in this thread.

purdue101
05-17-2005, 09:28 PM
The only thing about Rick, it seems like he isn't getting these boys jacked up to play these big games! He needs to talk to JO, REGGIE, and S-JAX and tell them to play thier biggest games of thier lives. I really don't see much leadership out there.



you took the words right out of my mouth.

Jermaniac
05-17-2005, 09:29 PM
At least Jermaine was in the building, unlike the other half of our two-star system...

:whistle: Yup his name always has to be brought into a negative thread.

brichard
05-17-2005, 09:30 PM
I agree with that, blame the team, blame the coach, he holds most culpability, leave players like JO and JT alone, they are playing through lots of pain and do only what is asked of them, and giving it their all.

No one ever noticed that JO shoots 500 in the first Q and then when he comes back shoots pathetic, if ever a sign of injury locking up.

Rick should know and play him longer and I will not say what I think of the remainder of the coaching, because it sucked as bad as our play.


I'm sorry able, but playing injured may grant you some grace, but it doesn't give you a free pass. I didn't watch the game, but from what I heard from Slick and Mark, we flat got out hustled. And a guy like Tinsley may be hurt, but that doesn't mean his mental faculties are in good order.

If JO can't hit a shot b/c of the shoulder, then I can live with it. I will also agree that RC should have his head examined for setting him up for iso's. But if we aren't boxing out and going for the ball... forget it.

I'm not sure why, but this Pacer team is not playing with the teamwork and hustle it had before JO came back. I'm not blaming it on JO and there is no way we beat Detroit w/o him. But, this entire team, JO and Tinsley included, have to accept responsibility for this absolute thrashing.

Missing a defensive assignment b/c of a sore foot is one thing, but getting stuffed by Ben Wallace repeatedly is another.

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 09:32 PM
Yup his name always has to be brought into a negative thread.

Sorry, but I didn't feel it was fair to pile on Jermaine when he's out there playing through injury, while Ron and his family watch from the sofa...

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:37 PM
I agree to a point, but I put that on the players more then I do the coaches.

but thats just me...


Well, you are right. It takes the playes to respond to the coach. But what's that one saying..."Attitude reflects leadership" I don't know if that's what it is, but it's close.

PaceBalls
05-17-2005, 09:38 PM
The trade JO threads are gonna start soon I'm sure.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:39 PM
Sorry, but I didn't feel it was fair to pile on Jermaine when he's out there playing through injury, while Ron and his family watch from the sofa...


Whenever you declare youself as the leader of this team, you are gonna get a lot of blame.

PaceBalls
05-17-2005, 09:41 PM
Just wait till we are 100% next year.

I can't go another year hearing that excuse again. It's been the same thing since 2000.

Hoop
05-17-2005, 09:43 PM
OK, Sorry for the idiot comments. BUT the rest of my statement is completely correct. If you "fill in the blank" people would step back and look at the big picture, what did you really expect?

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 09:43 PM
Whenever you declare youself as the leader of this team, you are gonna get a lot of blame.

Didn't Ron declare himself the MVP of this team over the offseason?

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:43 PM
I can't go another year hearing that excuse again. It's been the same thing since 2000.



EXACTLY!!! It's like that our "injury" stuff is always our excuse for pretty much everything! I'm sick of it!

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 09:45 PM
Didn't Ron declare himself the MVP of this team over the offseason?


Look where that got him. Maybe we shouldn't have any leaders on this team....

purdue101
05-17-2005, 09:50 PM
i think sometimes indy fans don't get on our players enough and hold them accountable. jo is our franchise player, injured or not, i just want to see effort, and he showed none tonight.

look at what happened with artest. he ****ed up time after time after time and we kept supporting him, forgiving him, and taking the "this is the last time" attitude. finally he made the ultimate **** up and our season was crippled.

i'm gonna take heat for this but i think indy needs to get on our players asses more to motivate them to play harder and smarter. they need to understand that they get paid millions to bring it every single night. i can live with shots not falling or players playing hurt, but i can't live with guys putting forth no effort, yelling at refs, and making continous mental lapses.

i'll always remember how the fans in minny kept making excuses for KG until finally they called him out in the summer of 2003 and said it was time to step up. that year he took the wolves to the conference finals and within a game of the finals.

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 09:52 PM
i think sometimes indy fans don't get on our players enough and hold them accountable. jo is our franchise player, injured or not, i just want to see effort, and he showed none tonight.

look at what happened with artest. he ****ed up time after time after time and we kept supporting him, forgiving him, and taking the "this is the last time" attitude. finally he made the ultimate **** up and our season was crippled.

i'm gonna take heat for this but i think indy needs to get on our players asses more to motivate them to play harder and smarter. they need to understand that they get paid millions to bring it every single night. i can live with shots not falling or players playing hurt, but i can't live with guys putting forth no effort, yelling at refs, and making continous mental lapses.

i'll always remember how the fans in minny kept making excuses for KG until finally they called him out in the summer of 2003 and said it was time to step up. that year he took the wolves to the conference finals and within a game of the finals.

Actually, KG threatened to leave, and McHale brought in some quick, old talent to keep him satisfied.

I doubt the fans had a whole lot to do with it...

Hoop
05-17-2005, 09:57 PM
i think sometimes indy fans don't get on our players enough and hold them accountable. jo is our franchise player, injured or not, i just want to see effort, and he showed none tonight.

look at what happened with artest. he ****ed up time after time after time and we kept supporting him, forgiving him, and taking the "this is the last time" attitude. finally he made the ultimate **** up and our season was crippled.

i'm gonna take heat for this but i think indy needs to get on our players asses more to motivate them to play harder and smarter. they need to understand that they get paid millions to bring it every single night. i can live with shots not falling or players playing hurt, but i can't live with guys putting forth no effort, yelling at refs, and making continous mental lapses.

i'll always remember how the fans in minny kept making excuses for KG until finally they called him out in the summer of 2003 and said it was time to step up. that year he took the wolves to the conference finals and within a game of the finals.
I don't know what team you watched this season, but I saw a team that came togther and played way above there heads in the regular season and in the first round. It's not went as we would have liked this series, but lack of effort is not the cause.

Where was KG during the playoffs this year? He had 2 healthy arms, he should have done it by himself or maybe he just doesn't want to win bad enough. :rolleyes:

purdue101
05-17-2005, 09:58 PM
spree & cassell helped a lot but KG took it too another level last year....MVP level.

Jermaniac
05-17-2005, 10:00 PM
i think sometimes indy fans don't get on our players enough and hold them accountable. jo is our franchise player, injured or not, i just want to see effort, and he showed none tonight.

look at what happened with artest. he ****ed up time after time after time and we kept supporting him, forgiving him, and taking the "this is the last time" attitude. finally he made the ultimate **** up and our season was crippled.

i'm gonna take heat for this but i think indy needs to get on our players asses more to motivate them to play harder and smarter. they need to understand that they get paid millions to bring it every single night. i can live with shots not falling or players playing hurt, but i can't live with guys putting forth no effort, yelling at refs, and making continous mental lapses.

i'll always remember how the fans in minny kept making excuses for KG until finally they called him out in the summer of 2003 and said it was time to step up. that year he took the wolves to the conference finals and within a game of the finals.
Ohh yeah get hard on a team that has won 5 games more then it was supposed to according to some people. We beat the number 3 seed team, and we had the World Champs on the ropes and we lost. We are losing to a team thats at full strenght and that where the number 2 seed, and we are not even close to 100%. I got lots of respect for this team, they have just run out of gas and just cant put it together anymore.

TheHotShot31
05-17-2005, 10:02 PM
We still got one more game to play!

SoupIsGood
05-17-2005, 10:03 PM
Man, I love this talk of the Timberwolves...

Whenever I think being in our situation sucks, I just think "Hell, at least we aren't the TWolves!"

They had no excuse for the season they had this year. THAT is a team that simply doesn't care, not this one...

purdue101
05-17-2005, 10:04 PM
I don't know what team you watched this season, but I saw a team that came togther and played way above there heads in the regular season and in the first round. It's not went as we would have liked this series, but lack of effort is not the cause.

Where was KG during the playoffs this year? He had 2 healthy arms, he should have done it by himself or maybe he just doesn't want to win bad enough. :rolleyes:

spree and cassell killed that team this year with their whining about contracts so i think that's a little bias. if anyone held that team together to make a playoff run it was KG.

i think we have great guys on our team who have character and class. however i think we also have a few guys who still have some growing up to do and need to become leaders. the fans should voice themselves to push these guys to take it to the the next level. along with motivation we should voice our disappoint when it's needed.

Hoop
05-17-2005, 10:05 PM
Man, I love this talk of the Timberwolves...

Whenever I think being in our situation sucks, I just think "Hell, at least we aren't the TWolves!"

They had no excuse for the season they had this year. THAT is a team that simply doesn't care, not this one...:thumbsup:

purdue101
05-17-2005, 10:07 PM
Ohh yeah get hard on a team that has won 5 games more then it was supposed to according to some people. We beat the number 3 seed team, and we had the World Champs on the ropes and we lost. We are losing to a team thats at full strenght and that where the number 2 seed, and we are not even close to 100%. I got lots of respect for this team, they have just run out of gas and just cant put it together anymore.


all i want is effort & the ability to keep our heads about us Jermaniac. We can lose by 50 and i will be happy if we play our hearts out.

Roy Munson
05-17-2005, 10:28 PM
The only thing about Rick, it seems like he isn't getting these boys jacked up to play these big games! He needs to talk to JO, REGGIE, and S-JAX and tell them to play thier biggest games of thier lives. I really don't see much leadership out there.

Wow!! That's brilliant. Rick needs to tell the guys to play good!! I'll bet he never thought of that. I think you should give Rick a call and share that advice with him. He'd appreciate it.

Hoop
05-17-2005, 10:29 PM
Wow!! That's brilliant. Rick needs to tell the guys to play good!! I'll bet he never thought of that. I think you should give Rick a call and share that advice with him. He'd appreciate it.
:laugh:

FiestyFosterFanatic
05-17-2005, 10:31 PM
I really can't stand JNO right now. He can be wide open, could easily spot up for a jumper, yet he still does a fadeaway. Shoot normal for cryin out loud! He's so soft, I remember one play, Rip Hamilton ripped the rebound away from him, and Jermaine almost fell down! AJ has gone back to the old AJ, playing like ****, Reggie can't hit a shot to save his life, Dale is getting manhandled, nobody from the bench (minus Foster) is doing anything. We are playing like the brawl just happened. I don't like to give them credit for what happened after November. O'Neal has missed so many games, 15 for the brawl, and however many for injuries, that he shouldnt be winded, same with Jackson. I can understand Tinsley, because he just came back. But everyone should have been in good shape expecting to play, I call it laziness for not being in game shape.

Stryder
05-17-2005, 10:34 PM
I don't have a problem with JO not stepping up; he still has a lot to learn in that area.

BUT,

I do have a problem with his continual poor shot selection. One can only see so many missed 15 foot fadeaways, before one goes crazy and takes out the tv with a shotgun.

FiestyFosterFanatic
05-17-2005, 10:37 PM
I'm tired of people letting Jermaine off the hook with the "he still has alot of growing up to do". The man is 26 years old! When is enough going to be enough? He has been in the league for what, 8 years now? He's been playing for the Pacers for about 4-5 years. Sooner or later, you think he would get a sense of the game. Maybe mature a little bit. He still acts like a kid all the time.

Roy Munson
05-17-2005, 10:39 PM
I really can't stand JNO right now. He can be wide open, could easily spot up for a jumper, yet he still does a fadeaway. Shoot normal for cryin out loud! He's so soft...,

I agree with your statement that JO is playing soft. He's very soft right now. He's playing like he's completely intimidated by Rashweed, and I think he's flat-out afraid of Ben Wallace.

At this time, far more than any other time this season, the Pacers miss Artest, because Artest doesn't play like he's afraid of anyone. And that rubs off on the other players. Right now, the team is looking at JO for leadership and what they are seeing is a scared player who is playing like a *****. And that's rubbing off on the whole team.

purdue101
05-17-2005, 10:40 PM
Wow!! That's brilliant. Rick needs to tell the guys to play good!! I'll bet he never thought of that. I think you should give Rick a call and share that advice with him. He'd appreciate it.

i understand rick has a very passive type attitude but i would like to see some fire in him. instead of patting JO on the *** when he came out tonight i would have liked to see him get up in his face and remind him that he's one of the top big men in the world, that he has tremendous talent, and that he needs to get his *** in the post and start rebounding the ball.

pacerwaala
05-17-2005, 10:44 PM
Shut the ***** up and think what we been through just to make here. JO is not 100%.


Agree 200% if you can do that. All the idiots on this board, please shutup. I have been critical of JO in the past and that was not because of individual games. Overall, he needs to take it strong to the hoop. He is a little soft and should improve on that.

But, to jump off the bandwagon after two bad games is ridiculous. I can't believe the ignorance of these guys who are calling out JO. He is a legit 20 point 10 board guy who is having a bad series. Leave him alone.


Our main problem is that in all the 12 games of this post season, one thing the COACHING STAFF has not done a good job of is to be able to get the ball into the post. Our main problem is that. By the time our post player catches the ball he is 16 feet from the hoop. While this works for SGs/ SFs it does not work for big men. When Rik was here, Larry always used to get him the ball inside of 8 to 10 feet. I really think this will open up a lot of things for us. This could be because Detroits bigs are stronger and are pushing our bigs out but I think it is more our coaching staff.

Jamal and Sjax are not good post feeders. Sjax is very tentative and worried about losing the ball when trying to feed the ball into the post. We need a good post feeder like Derek Mckey. Reggie is not a bad post feeder though.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 11:11 PM
Wow!! That's brilliant. Rick needs to tell the guys to play good!! I'll bet he never thought of that. I think you should give Rick a call and share that advice with him. He'd appreciate it.


I don't want Rick to tell these guys to just play GOOD. Good's not gonna cut it against Detroit. Instead of making a smart-*** remark to what I say, you could come up with a good counter-point. But I guess what we got here is a dumbass in a smart-*** disguise.

Does Rick not get any of the blame for not calling out any of these players? You always hear a player calling out a player, but maybe Rick should take a public route. Do you see any leadership out there? If you do...PLEASE...PLEASE point it to me! I see JO just silently strutting around...

Roy Munson
05-17-2005, 11:24 PM
I don't want Rick to tell these guys to just play GOOD. Good's not gonna cut it against Detroit. Instead of making a smart-*** remark to what I say, you could come up with a good counter-point. But I guess what we got here is a dumbass in a smart-*** disguise.

Does Rick not get any of the blame for not calling out any of these players? You always hear a player calling out a player, but maybe Rick should take a public route. Do you see any leadership out there? If you do...PLEASE...PLEASE point it to me! I see JO just silently strutting around...

Considering what the Pacers have done the past two seasons, and considering the way they were floundering under Isiah Thomas, I find it VERY HARD to place any blame on Rick Carlisle. He's done a fantastic job of handling players and handling situations. His style has worked fantastically well to this point. The fact that the Pacers are now facing a real good team and they are down 3-2 doesn't make Carlisle a bad coach, or a bad leader. He's been great for the past two years and he's a great leader....in his own style.

Mr. Pink
05-17-2005, 11:26 PM
Considering what the Pacers have done the past two seasons, and considering the way they were floundering under Isiah Thomas, I find it VERY HARD to place any blame on Rick Carlisle. He's done a fantastic job of handling players and handling situations. His style has worked fantastically well to this point. The fact that the Pacers are now facing a real good team and they are down 3-2 doesn't make Carlisle a bad coach, or a bad leader. He's been great for the past two years and he's a great leader....in his own style.


He is a great coach. I'm just saying, it never seems like he gets the players mentally ready for big games in the playoffs this year. I know, I don't know if that is the case, but it's hard not to assume.